Official Sony XBR2 (60" & 70") Owner's Thread - Page 187 - AVS Forum
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post #5581 of 12065 Old 04-04-2007, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinofCMR View Post

My 70" is about to get a new home. I'm having a cabinet built for it in a niche in my family room. My problem is that I need to push the tv all the way back against the wall for it to be flush with the niche. I know the manual recommends 4", but is that overly cautious? Help!

I was surprised to feel the heat that comes out of that vent area. If it was me, I would have the cabinet built so that you can get the 4". Heat is the number one killer of electronics.
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post #5582 of 12065 Old 04-04-2007, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by AnthemAVM View Post

XBR2

Just making sure. AFAIK, yours is the first legitimate post of an XBR2 needing an OB. What were the symptoms?

Be seeing you!
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post #5583 of 12065 Old 04-04-2007, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cctvtech View Post

Just making sure. AFAIK, yours is the first legitimate post of an XBR2 needing an OB. What were the symptoms?

When Rick was out to calibrate he found it was out of focus.
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post #5584 of 12065 Old 04-04-2007, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Disto View Post

squeeblez,

I am watching TV. The phone rings and I have to go somewhere for 1/2 hour or so. Should I turn the TV off and then back on when I return or leave it on with no one watching. I am thinking about bulb life.

Got ya. If it is half an hour or so, I normally leave it on. Hour or more probably turn it off. I hate just repetedly cycling it
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post #5585 of 12065 Old 04-04-2007, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinofCMR View Post

My 70" is about to get a new home. I'm having a cabinet built for it in a niche in my family room. My problem is that I need to push the tv all the way back against the wall for it to be flush with the niche. I know the manual recommends 4", but is that overly cautious? Help!

I would try and get at least a couple of inches, however, there have been some A2000 owners claiming they have seen increased picture quality by obstructing vents and or keeping the TV closer to the wall (keeping the internal temp higher). I don't know if this is acurate. Like AnthemAVM said heat is the #1 killer of electronics.....aside from water and crack

There is a fan on there and a warning in the manual for a reason......I don't think the folks at Sony were just bored
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post #5586 of 12065 Old 04-05-2007, 02:07 AM
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My original stand has 2 blocks to be installed at the back so as to keep the stand from getting closer than 4" o the wall. On an semi-enclosed cabinet, you should think about an external fan to circulate the air too.
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post #5587 of 12065 Old 04-06-2007, 12:18 AM
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Got a call from Sony, they say that the KS-70R200A uses a 180w lamp and a Bravia engine instead of the wega engine being used in the XBR2. According to them the Bravia engine is a newer technology
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post #5588 of 12065 Old 04-06-2007, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by karan_sfi View Post

Got a call from Sony, they say that the KS-70R200A uses a 180w lamp and a Bravia engine instead of the wega engine being used in the XBR2. According to them the Bravia engine is a newer technology

Here are the specs for the KS-70R200A at SonyStyle Hong Kong.

Be seeing you!
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post #5589 of 12065 Old 04-06-2007, 08:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cctvtech View Post

Just making sure. AFAIK, yours is the first legitimate post of an XBR2 needing an OB. What were the symptoms?


I had two xbr2's replaced. the third was fine. some green on startup but after a minute it goes away.
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post #5590 of 12065 Old 04-06-2007, 09:51 AM
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Here's hoping for a better future than I had with my 50-XBR1. I'm now watching a 60-XBR2. The increase in screen size is amazing and the PQ is great! I'm still freaking out when I see yellow/green program material on the right side of the screen though; looking to make sure I don't have the dreaded blob effect. Things are looking good so far!
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post #5591 of 12065 Old 04-06-2007, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by MetalHead View Post

Here's hoping for a better future than I had with my 50-XBR1. I'm now watching a 60-XBR2. The increase in screen size is amazing and the PQ is great! I'm still freaking out when I see yellow/green program material on the right side of the screen though; looking to make sure I don't have the dreaded blob effect. Things are looking good so far!

Congrats MetalHead. Enjoy your new XBR2.
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post #5592 of 12065 Old 04-06-2007, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonRabb View Post

Are you in DC man? So am I!


Save your money and time. This is a fools game in my opinion. Consider the following:

The only test DVDs are for DVD. There are no 1080P DVDs out yet for blu ray or HD DVD. Calibrating using a DVD will only approximate your HD cable input. The signal generators they use are not equivalent to what you get from the cable company anyways since there is all sorts of compression going on.
My assumption is that anyone can adjust the set approximately to a good viewing scenario...at least one that you like. Read these forums and get some ideas.

What we cannot do on our own is calibrate the colour or the gamma perfectly...according to how the director intended the picture. But, big deal. I had my set calibrated and frankly, I liked my own settings a wee bit better. I knew how to get the picture reasonably correct. The increase in PQ after calibration was <5% in my opinion. Now, if you are technically simple and not capable of reading or using the remote, then you had better get some help.

The most important issue in my mind is contrast and maybe brightness. If you get those reasonable, then you are 90% there. That is a good reason to buy an elementary calibration disk that you can use to subjectively adjust contrast and brightness.

As to perfect colour temp...nice but minor. The 5 settings from Sony give you lots of choice and are reasonable but not perfect. Having said that, after you spend your money, you will generally wonder why.

I had previously owned a 60XB1. I moved up to an XBR2. I have always thought (and continue to think) that the PQ was better in the XBR1. It seemed sharper or rather, it had much less SSE. I was hoping that the calibrator could compensate and return the great picture that I have been missing. He could not.

So, calibration, in my opinion, is not necessary and the marginal improvement (maybe) is certainly not worth the money. Now I know that lots of think that people like UMR have worked miracles for you. I will not argue that he might have. However, I suggest that you could have done 80% of it for yourself.

Anyways, just my opinion. I will never recommend to anyone again to get their sets calibrated other than as I have suggested within this post.

Good luck
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post #5593 of 12065 Old 04-06-2007, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by theguy View Post


I had previously owned a 60XB1. I moved up to an XBR2. I have always thought (and continue to think) that the PQ was better in the XBR1. It seemed sharper or rather, it had much less SSE. I was hoping that the calibrator could compensate and return the great picture that I have been missing. He could not.

You are one of the very few people that feel the same way about the XBR1 vs. XBR2. The XBR2 is brighter. The PQ is not as refined as the XBR1. Probably everyone on this thread will disagree, but I can see the difference!

Santa Claus has the right idea...visit people only once a year...Victor Borge
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post #5594 of 12065 Old 04-06-2007, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by audiomixer View Post

You are one of the very few people that feel the same way about the XBR1 vs. XBR2. The XBR2 is brighter and does not display PQ that is not as refined as the XBR1. Probably everyone on this thread will disagree, but I can see the difference!

Actually all XBR2 owners will agree with your second sentence with the inclusion of a double negative.
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post #5595 of 12065 Old 04-06-2007, 05:59 PM
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Actually all XBR2 owners will agree with your second sentence with the inclusion of a double negative.

I'll fix it!

Santa Claus has the right idea...visit people only once a year...Victor Borge
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post #5596 of 12065 Old 04-06-2007, 06:41 PM
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Its nice to know that my XBR1 is still the bees knees.

JohnG (videokng)


Sony KDS-R50XBR1 (SXRD)
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post #5597 of 12065 Old 04-06-2007, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by theguy View Post

Save your money and time. This is a fools game in my opinion. Consider the following:

The only test DVDs are for DVD. There are no 1080P DVDs out yet for blu ray or HD DVD. Calibrating using a DVD will only approximate your HD cable input. The signal generators they use are not equivalent to what you get from the cable company anyways since there is all sorts of compression going on.
My assumption is that anyone can adjust the set approximately to a good viewing scenario...at least one that you like. Read these forums and get some ideas.

What we cannot do on our own is calibrate the colour or the gamma perfectly...according to how the director intended the picture. But, big deal. I had my set calibrated and frankly, I liked my own settings a wee bit better. I knew how to get the picture reasonably correct. The increase in PQ after calibration was <5% in my opinion. Now, if you are technically simple and not capable of reading or using the remote, then you had better get some help.

The most important issue in my mind is contrast and maybe brightness. If you get those reasonable, then you are 90% there. That is a good reason to buy an elementary calibration disk that you can use to subjectively adjust contrast and brightness.

As to perfect colour temp...nice but minor. The 5 settings from Sony give you lots of choice and are reasonable but not perfect. Having said that, after you spend your money, you will generally wonder why.

I had previously owned a 60XB1. I moved up to an XBR2. I have always thought (and continue to think) that the PQ was better in the XBR1. It seemed sharper or rather, it had much less SSE. I was hoping that the calibrator could compensate and return the great picture that I have been missing. He could not.

So, calibration, in my opinion, is not necessary and the marginal improvement (maybe) is certainly not worth the money. Now I know that lots of think that people like UMR have worked miracles for you. I will not argue that he might have. However, I suggest that you could have done 80% of it for yourself.

Anyways, just my opinion. I will never recommend to anyone again to get their sets calibrated other than as I have suggested within this post.

Good luck

Since you said you got your swap through Future Shop which is in Canada then you did not get to have your set done by UMR who doesn't go to Canada. Ask people like Bob Fosse about what Jeff can do vs other calibrators. The best calibrator that I know of in Canada is Michael Chen. Now if you had anybody else but Michael do your set then I doubt if you received the full benefit of what a top notch calibrator can provide. Personally accurate colors are worth more than 20%, but that is just me. And VERY few people know how to get accurate colors on an XBR2. I can count them on my left thumb
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post #5598 of 12065 Old 04-06-2007, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by theguy View Post

Save your money and time. This is a fools game in my opinion.


So, calibration, in my opinion, is not necessary and the marginal improvement (maybe) is certainly not worth the money. Now I know that lots of think that people like UMR have worked miracles for you. I will not argue that he might have. However, I suggest that you could have done 80% of it for yourself.

Anyways, just my opinion. I will never recommend to anyone again to get their sets calibrated other than as I have suggested within this post.

Good luck

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and I can certainly understand your feelings about this. If you think that your settings look better to you than the ISF calibrator's settings did then you did not get your money's worth. I learned the hard and costly way that there is a vast difference in the ability and knowledge of ISF calibrators and what they can do for your set. If you had UMR or someone like him do your calibration you would most probably be blown away with the improvement as much as both my wife and I are. Not subtle! My wife is not into these kind of things like ISF calibration and could care less but after UMR left she was and still is as excited with the great improvement in PQ as much as I am. Seeing is believing.
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post #5599 of 12065 Old 04-06-2007, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by theguy View Post

...So, calibration, in my opinion, is not necessary and the marginal improvement (maybe) is certainly not worth the money. Now I know that lots of think that people like UMR have worked miracles for you. I will not argue that he might have. However, I suggest that you could have done 80% of it for yourself.
...

I would suggest that you might be wrong with your 80% rule.

I do both video and audio on the vast majority of my jobs. I have yet to see a system were one of them was not horribly wrong and both are usually way off. This includes very educated forum members who have me come by to just verify their system.

Take the case of Bob Fosse. He had 4 other professionals in his home who could not satisfy him. I knew this going in and still went to his home to fix his problem. If I was not confident that I was very likely superior to my competitors I would not have taken the risk. I would not go to someone's home who was already upset and risk a negative post unless I believed I offered a different quality of service. Once I was at Bob's I improved his video color, resolution, noise level and contrast ratio. I also improved his audio and identified two audio components that needed to be replaced to achieve the level of performance he desired. None of these issues were addressed by any of the previous four people. I was also the only one who even bothered to look at his audio which had horrible problems.
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post #5600 of 12065 Old 04-07-2007, 12:32 AM
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I'd like to thank UMR for the incredible job he did calibrating my 70" and audio system last month while on his West Coast tour.

I used the different variations from the owners' tweaks forum and am grateful for those posts because the picture was very satisfying and all you owners that posted saved me sooo much time. Thanks, everyone - I owe you a beer. I was totally happy and wouldn't know any different if Jeff hadn't come over.

There's not much more I can say about UMR's work ethic and results that hasn't already been said. Jeff is very professional, extremely efficient and man, is he smart and capable! He is also affable and patiently answered all my dopey questions. He clearly enjoys his profession and will not leave until he (and the client, of course) is completely satisfied with the results - I was good to go about an hour or so into it, but 4-5 hours later: 70 diagonal inches of Nirvana, Mecca and the Holy Grail sat before me.

I can't say I'm a videophile but I can be absolutely confident in saying that I would not buy another display without having it calibrated by UMR - I believe that to get the full potential of a great display, it will need a professional calibration by a competent calibrator.

The things I enjoy more now (and noticed right away post calibration) about the picture are the colors, black level, contrast and detail. I don't know how write it up like an industry reviewer, but let's just say I now watch stuff I didn't before, like American Idol, only because it looks so darn good and okay, watching Sanjaya butcher a song is kinda entertaining, too. Flesh tones now look real and natural, the Lakers' uniforms look correct to the shade as with other sporting events/uniforms and I was able to read the greens and fairways watching the Tiger at the Masters. Pretty cool stuff.

I don't have HD-DVD or BD players yet, but watching standard DVDs have the same improvements as mentioned above in regards to colors, black level, contrast and detail.

I would be remiss if I did not mention the audio calibration. I incorrectly assumed that I had my 5.1 dialed in fairly close. I advise everyone to pay for the next tier up (or the tier above that, if applicable) on UMR's menu for the higher level of audio calibration. It's not that much more scratch and it is nothing less than jaw dropping when the sound is correct. I literally had goosebumps after Jeff calibrated my audio and we watched the "pebble game" sequence from "House of Flying Daggers". Yeah, we watched that a few times and I even missed a delivery at my door cause we were totally into that scene.

Again, thanks to UMR, the Qualians and all the XBR2 owners. I won't need another display until it is bigger, better and cheaper!
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post #5601 of 12065 Old 04-07-2007, 06:31 AM
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Thank you whiskerbiscuit it was my pleasure. Your review is a good example of why I am only working on audio and video at this time. Great audio is a major component of home theater and I believe the value of a quality audio and video calibration exceeds that of either alone. Unfortunately, most people assume their audio is just fine like you did. Most of my clients have your same reaction with the audio. I suspect more appreciate the audio improvement than the video because the errors are usually greater in audio.

I had one of my clients recently tell me during a return trip that he watches more music performances than ever before because his audio is so good now. He not only had me setup his audio, but I also helped him select some of the equipment. This is another service that I offer my clients which helps them obtain the best performance at a price point. I also believe it is possible to offset the cost of my services if I am involved in the audio and video equipment selection. I have the benefit of seeing, hearing, testing and measuring many brands of equipment at all price points. Because of this I can guide my clients to great value equipment in any price category. This includes surround systems costing less than $500 to those over $250,000 and video displays from low cost CRT's to $30,000 front projectors.
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post #5602 of 12065 Old 04-07-2007, 06:48 AM
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Here is an audio review from another client that further highlights the challenge. Like Bob Fosse he had hired two accousticians to setup his audio and was not satisfied. Failing there he also purchased a significant level of equipment to calibrate it himself, but was still not happy with the performance. The attached review are his comments after I worked on his audio. I was initially hired to work on video, but offered to fix his audio in the process. He was skeptical based on past problems.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8376824
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post #5603 of 12065 Old 04-07-2007, 07:37 AM
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I just wish umr could come to Montreal to do mine. That way I could judge for myself if it is worth it. Short of that, I wish the manufacturers would do a better job out of the box.

-Tony
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post #5604 of 12065 Old 04-07-2007, 07:50 AM
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I also wonder the same, why doesn't the manufacturers would do a better calibration job out of the box.
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post #5605 of 12065 Old 04-07-2007, 08:12 AM
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economics. more time spent doing it right = a higher price to consumers. and lets face it alot of people aren't willing to pay that extra price. there are lots of people who are happy with out of the box PQ. think about it this way. the people here at the forums are just a small sampling of purchasers. there are many many more that do not come here that buy a TV and watch it forever without being concerned with a better picture. heck i have 6 friends with HDTV's who never heard of a calibration disc let alone an ISF calibrator. and personally I've tried to explain it to them and they just aren't receptive to the idea. in their minds their sets are fine and it's not worth the money or time. I've given up on them. when and if UMR makes it to me this year I'll have some real evidence to show my friends.

Let the awe and mystery of a journey unlike any other begin
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post #5606 of 12065 Old 04-07-2007, 08:35 AM
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I also had UMR (Jeff) calibrate my 70" just 10 days ago and words cannot express how much more enjoyable it is to watch this set. Whiskerbiscuit and Bob said it well. Couldn't agree more. I am not a videophile either so I had not planned to write a review on this forum. Jeff is plenty busy and probably doesn't need more referrals, but when I read "theguy's" negative comments about calibration, I had to stick up for Jeff and make sure that everyone knows how beneficial calibration can be. You won't regret having Jeff do his thing. He will stay for as long as necessary to get it done right and in the process you will learn a lot about it. Jeff is a very interesting and intelligent guy. You'll find your time spent with him is very captivating.

Get on his list and go for it. I waited a few months for him to come to my area and I'm glad I did.

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post #5607 of 12065 Old 04-07-2007, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinomon View Post

I also wonder the same, why doesn't the manufacturers would do a better calibration job out of the box.

I was told by some folks at THX that they are working on this with a manufacturer to develop a THX Certified auto calibrating display. I would guess it might be Pioneer since they do attempt some nice things with their Elite line of products. I am pretty certain this could be done, but it will not be cheap to do well. It could easily add $1000 to the price. The other problem is that we are dealing with a system. Calibrating the display in a vacuum is not going to solve all of the problems.

Many sources have their challenges as well. For example, I was working with a Pioneer Elite plasma recently and the client had the ability to route video through his XBOX 360 over component or from the PC over VGA. The client assumed VGA was the way to go. After a simple demonstration it was obvious the 360 route was much better. These kinds of problems along with various settings in the video sources make display calibration alone less than optimal for many situations.

This same problem is faced by the auto calibrating receivers. They only have control over the receiver and even if they are perfect they cannot solve many issues that appear in audio systems. These things include all the settings on the subwoofer, speaker placement and room acoustics. Add to this the fact that most of these systems are highly flawed and you have a situation where consumers think they have a good setup because they used the automated system, but instead they have very poor performance.
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post #5608 of 12065 Old 04-07-2007, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinofCMR View Post

I also had UMR (Jeff) calibrate my 70" just 10 days ago and words cannot express how much more enjoyable it is to watch this set. Whiskerbiscuit and Bob said it well. Couldn't agree more. I am not a videophile either so I had not planned to write a review on this forum. Jeff is plenty busy and probably doesn't need more referrals, but when I read "theguy's" negative comments about calibration, I had to stick up for Jeff and make sure that everyone knows how beneficial calibration can be. You won't regret having Jeff do his thing. He will stay for as long as necessary to get it done right and in the process you will learn a lot about it. Jeff is a very interesting and intelligent guy. You'll find your time spent with him is very captivating.

Get on his list and go for it. I waited a few months for him to come to my area and I'm glad I did.


Thank you for the kind words Kevin. It was my pleasure to work with you.
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post #5609 of 12065 Old 04-07-2007, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinofCMR View Post

I also had UMR (Jeff) calibrate my 70" just 10 days ago and words cannot express how much more enjoyable it is to watch this set. Whiskerbiscuit and Bob said it well.

Thanks for the report.

I've added it to the owner's list that is linked at the bottom of my post.

Did UMR work on your audio?
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post #5610 of 12065 Old 04-07-2007, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskerbiscuit View Post

I'd like to thank UMR for the incredible job he did calibrating my 70" and audio system last month while on his West Coast tour.

Thanks for the extensive report.

I've added it to the list of owner's reports that is linked at the bottom of my post.

Enjoy.
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Reply Rear Projection Units

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