Official Sony XBR2 (60" & 70") Owner's Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmurphy88 View Post

Question: if you feed a 5.1 audio HDMI signal into the XBR2s directly, do you get an onscreen "unsupported audio" notice? You do on the A2000s, on each input change. A bit annoying, and most A2000 owners will go back to component/optical (or buy an HDMI A/V receiver) to fix it.

I set my HD-DVD player to output Bitstream to HDMI and turn on the TV speakers. I got audio and no on-screen errors. Worked for both DTS and DD.

In a bit of a surprise, I found I get audio from my Dish 622 via HDMI as well. This surprises me because I'm using a cable that is DVI on one end and uses an adapter to make it HDMI to HDMI.

Robbin
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post #542 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbinMerritt View Post

In a bit of a surprise, I found I get audio from my Dish 622 via HDMI as well. This surprises me because I'm using a cable that is DVI on one end and uses an adapter to make it HDMI to HDMI.

The DVI connector out of the Dish 622 has audio? I don't think there's a provision for DVI to have audio.
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post #543 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 02:52 PM
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I am debating buying either the 60-XBR2 or the 70-XBR2 and have a few questions I hope to get some help with here. I currently do not own an HDTV, but want to buy something that will last me for the next 5+ years. Cost is not a determining factor, but system enjoyment is . A few critical details include:

- Seating distance from front of TV to eye = 10'
- Height of TV credenza = 24.5"
- Seating height at eye level = 28"
- Seating position is approx 2' offset from center of screen

Given the height of the credenza and a seating distance of 10', which screen size would work the best with these conditions? I'm not sure if the 70" would be sitting too high, causing picture uniformity issues, which is one of my main concerns. I am also wondering if 10' is too close for the 70".

On the other hand, I haven't seen anyone here complaining that their sets were too big ...

Thanks for providing me your valuable feedback!!
jk
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post #544 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 03:21 PM
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Could anyone please comment on how does the picture look when you watch off center?
I'd like to go with the 60XBR2 over a plasma but a portion of my seating is off center-say 30 degrees to either side of the tv.
Thanks
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post #545 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyFunBoater View Post

The DVI connector out of the Dish 622 has audio? I don't think there's a provision for DVI to have audio.

We've drifted off the thread topic, but I agree with you. I'll post something on a sat forum and see what the answer is.

Robbin
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post #546 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 03:31 PM
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Anybody have a chance to post their settings? I'm tweaking by eye and am curious what other XBR2 owners are using for settings.

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post #547 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnahmia View Post

Could anyone please comment on how does the picture look when you watch off center?
I'd like to go with the 60XBR2 over a plasma but a portion of my seating is off center-say 30 degrees to either side of the tv.
Thanks

Standing 10' away from the 70", I don't start to see any noticable change in picture until well past 45 degrees. I do see a noticable change in brightness when standing up versus sitting down.

The manual states 65 deg in either side and 30 deg up and down. I'd agree with those numbers.

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post #548 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBergan View Post

What did you set the dynamic iris to? Did you leave power saving on auto? I don't have a good feel for the interplay of both of those, with brightness/contrast yet.

I decided to leave it on auto and see if I see any artifacts. So far, no problems. Given that I've just come from an Elite with the brightness/blue-flash problem, I'm pretty conscious of variations, so I'm pretty confident about the lack of issues.

Quote:


I need to check what the 1080p is using for the color matrix. All my colors look a little too hot. The VP50 has built in color bar test screens, and I tried them with the DVE color slides and they look right, but it needs more tweaking. May need to have someone with real gear come in and adjust it.

The HD modes all seem to default to ITU709, which I've understood to be the digital standards' color matrix, so they should be fine. The only issue is that SD sometimes uses one, sometimes the other. I think, with digital cable simulcasting now the norm, it might be true that all the SD content I see on my cablecard TiVo is ITU709. It sure looks more correct than ITU601. So, that's what I'm using.
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post #549 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofargone View Post

Wow--no hdcp error? Do you happen to know the soft/firmware versions of SARA and hdcp on your 8300 from the diagnostic screens? I haven't found anyone yet (haven't searched exhaustively tho) that has had this work, but from what I read it requires hdcp v.1.1 or better and SARA ???? v. 1.88 or better and/or some ???? firmware 2.4 or better. To access the diag. screen hold select on the STB (not remote) until mail icon flashes then press info. Use the page up button on the remote to advance pages.

And that is bizarre that we both only find 7 channels. I am going to try to hook cable from the wall directly into the "cable in" on the Sony and see what happens. I don't really want to use a splitter long-term however.

I finally had a chance to check and the Sara firmware revision on my 8300HD is 1.88.23.1
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post #550 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Anybody have a chance to post their settings? I'm tweaking by eye and am curious what other XBR2 owners are using for settings.

Turned off all the enhancements (using external scaler)

Brightness at 65

Color temp neutral

Just turned sharpness down to about 15 based on HD football, still need to play with this more

Everything else at default

But still very much a work in progress, I think there is room for improvement on my colors.

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post #551 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pagentry View Post

I finally had a chance to check and the Sara firmware revision on my 8300HD is 1.88.23.1

Thanks pagentry! That could explain my problem...I have 1.87...

Now where is that TWC support number? (I kept it taped to my old tv stand )
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post #552 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 05:21 PM
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Edit: My settings post is heavily revised and now located here on the XBR2 settings thread.
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post #553 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymbow View Post

I am debating buying either the 60-XBR2 or the 70-XBR2 and have a few questions I hope to get some help with here. I currently do not own an HDTV, but want to buy something that will last me for the next 5+ years. Cost is not a determining factor, but system enjoyment is . A few critical details include:

- Seating distance from front of TV to eye = 10'
- Height of TV credenza = 24.5"
- Seating height at eye level = 28"
- Seating position is approx 2' offset from center of screen

Given the height of the credenza and a seating distance of 10', which screen size would work the best with these conditions? I'm not sure if the 70" would be sitting too high, causing picture uniformity issues, which is one of my main concerns. I am also wondering if 10' is too close for the 70".

On the other hand, I haven't seen anyone here complaining that their sets were too big ...

Thanks for providing me your valuable feedback!!
jk

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnahmia View Post

Could anyone please comment on how does the picture look when you watch off center?
I'd like to go with the 60XBR2 over a plasma but a portion of my seating is off center-say 30 degrees to either side of the tv.
Thanks

I have the 60". My stand is at 21" H. I am 5'4". I assessed this while watching football pregame on NBC HD.

If I sit on my couch at 11', I think I would be happy to have the 70". If I sit on the floor in front of my couch (~10') then stand up, I do not see brightness un-uniformity with a 3' offset. Standing/crouching next to the couch at 11'/5' offset, I think it looks very good.

If I sit on the floor in front of my recliner (~4.5'/2.5' offset) then stand up, I definitely see changes in brightness though it is not terrible at its worst. Sitting in my recliner at 5', I begin to sense that the viewing experience is less than optimal starting at about 3.5' offset and definitely by 5'--tho I would have no problem sitting someone at that spot for the superbowl party.

I think my stand is slightly too tall from my recliner, but about right from the couch.
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post #554 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AikenGhoti View Post

KTTV Images posted some good settings here. Here's my take, which is possibly less-educated and rougher, but I wanted to offer my notes anyway. I used DVE.

Picture:
  • Picture Mode: Custom
  • Advanced Iris: Auto 2 seems to work well in my environment, day and night. It's a little bright in the dark, but I think I'd rather set up a backlight than have to diddle with the setting all the time.
  • Picture (Contrast): 97, down from the default of 100, seems to eliminate the small
  • amount of crush I found.
  • Brightness: 52 because I like to see shadow details a little more clearly, but should probably be the default of 50.
  • Color: 50, down from the default of 55.
  • Hue: G 2. Surprisingly, the test patterns and color filters indicated the default of 0 was not quite right. Weird. Bothersome. But it is what it is.
  • Color Temp.: Warm 1
  • Sharpness: 0 for my upconverting DVD player, 15 for my (digital) S3 TiVo (hate to do it, but it does look better), and 20 for my (analog) S2 TiVo and the tuner.
  • Noise Reduction: Low for my upconverting DVD player and (digital) S3 TiVo, and High for my (analog) S2 TiVo and the tuner, since my analog signal has a lot of noise. Normally you wouldn't want to go past Medium even for analog content, because High does produce visible smearing at times.
  • DRC Mode: Mode 1. Not sure yet. Using Mode 1 universally for now, even though it may be better to use Mode 2 for the upconverting DVD player. Not sure, since the upconversion does more than just scale.
  • DRC Palette: 1,1. Not sure yet, using other people's suggestion of 1,1 until I know better.
  • Advanced Settings
    • Black Corrector: Waffling between Low and Off, not sure yet. Low looks good on DVD, but it may be that I need to turn off something in the player instead. I still need to check that.
    • Gamma: Off. Bleh. Stuff is authored for default gamma, why would I want to change it?
    • Clear White: Off.
    • Live Color: I think this is fleshtone correction. Off for digital sources, low for analog sources or some digital sources playing old analog content.
    • White Balance: I haven't messed with this, and likely won't.
    • Detail Enhancer: Off for pure digital, Low for some analog SD.

Screen:
  • Display Area: Normal. Of course. Who needs more overscan?
  • Horizontal Center: Almost all of my inputs are showing up just slightly off-center to the left, so I'm using +2..+5 here, depending on the source. Your mileage will certainly vary. Do check it out, though.
  • Vertical Center (Zoom mode only): -1 for TV sources, because almost all broadcast letterboxed content is shown slightly above center. DVD letterboxed content is usually centered correctly, so use 0 there.
  • Vertical Size: For Zoom, I actually changed it -1 to be just slightly squished vertically to offset the overscan. I can't see the difference and I get a little more real estate. YMMV. For Wide Zoom, I changed it to 5, because Wide Zoom is way oversquished by default and I prefer to crop more than squish, not that I'll ever actually use Wide Zoom.

Setup:
  • Game Mode: Off, even for games. It looks crappy to me. Just turn off all of the "enhance"-type settings and the noise reduction and you're better off, in my opinion.
  • Color Matrix: I'm finding that even analog SD content generally wants to be ITU709, even though it ought to be ITU601. I think this is because broadcasters are now working in the digital domain and cable companies are sending out the digital signal they're given as-is, without re-encoding the colors for analog channels. Your mileage may vary. Try both and see which looks right.
  • Power Saving: Auto. I've noticed no problems so far. I'll try it like this until I do.

If I've listed/suggested any particularly stupid settings here and someone knows better, please send me a PM and I'll be happy to edit this post to avoid spreading misinformation.


AikenG--Many, many thanks! My biggest difference (pic settings) is that I turned color down to 40--maybe I am just not used to the "pop" , tho I did not change the color matrix--i'll try that. I am keeping black corrector "off" due to black crush and color temp at neutral (personal pref??) and am using iris auto 1.

Thanks so much for your insights.
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post #555 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofargone View Post

I have the 60". My stand is at 21" H. I am 5'4". I assessed this while watching football pregame on NBC HD.

If I sit on my couch at 11', I think I would be happy to have the 70". If I sit on the floor in front of my couch (~10') then stand up, I do not see brightness un-uniformity with a 3' offset. Standing/crouching next to the couch at 11'/5' offset, I think it looks very good.

If I sit on the floor in front of my recliner (~4.5'/2.5' offset) then stand up, I definitely see changes in brightness though it is not terrible at its worst. Sitting in my recliner at 5', I begin to sense that the viewing experience is less than optimal starting at about 3.5' offset and definitely by 5'--tho I would have no problem sitting someone at that spot for the superbowl party.

I think my stand is slightly too tall from my recliner, but about right from the couch.

Thanks for your comments Toofargone!! Sounds like either the 60 or the 70 would work under the conditions I described. I wonder if its worth considering angling the unit a few degrees forward to lessen the effects of the 24.5" credenza?
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post #556 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofargone View Post

AikenG--Many, many thanks! My biggest difference (pic settings) is that I turned color down to 40--maybe I am just not used to the "pop" , tho I did not change the color matrix--i'll try that. I am keeping black corrector "off" due to black crush and color temp at neutral (personal pref??) and am using iris auto 1.

Thanks so much for your insights.

I'm in the same camp as far as the color setting goes. Anything over 44 just doesn't seem very natural. I think I'm holding at 42 for now.
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post #557 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 08:16 PM
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Thanks everyone. This really helps.

__________________________________________

When life gives you limes, make margaritas
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post #558 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymbow View Post

Thanks for your comments Toofargone!! Sounds like either the 60 or the 70 would work under the conditions I described. I wonder if its worth considering angling the unit a few degrees forward to lessen the effects of the 24.5" credenza?

Happy to contribute

Re: the angling: Perhaps, but be real careful--the big girl feels kinda front-heavy, if you know what I mean. I recall that the XBR1s even had a optional hold down strap (came with the sony issue stand??) to keep it from flopping over. I have moved my stand around a bit hooking up this and that and haven't had anything close to a close call but it somehow feels like it could be "tippy"--could just be an optical/kinesthetic illusion, tho.
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post #559 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofargone View Post

My biggest difference (pic settings) is that I turned color down to 40--maybe I am just not used to the "pop"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMiester View Post

I'm in the same camp as far as the color setting goes. Anything over 44 just doesn't seem very natural. I think I'm holding at 42 for now.

I admit, it bothered me that the correct value for color, based on test patterns and filters, seemed to be 50, since my wife and I both thought it seemed right to our eyes around 46 or so. I'm considering splitting the difference at 48 or so. Exact calibration techniques that were created for CRTs may be less than perfect on a different display technology. It may also be to do with the color matrix, as we arrived at the 46 number before I switched the color matrix and then I calibrated it after.

I think I'll make a note to that effect in my post.

Edit: My wife and I spent some time just doing it by eye while we watched more TV tonight. Now that the color matrix and several other things have changed, we figure it should be either 49 or 50. Any lower and colors start getting washed out. There seems to be some red push, so that may make some scenes look oversaturated, but all in all, 50 seems to be good and I'm sticking with it.
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post #560 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 09:10 PM
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I have a question for those who purchased their stand from Sony. There is a package with four (4) silver colored adhesive strips with instructions to place these at the ends of the top and bottom trim pieces. Since this was not covered in the installation manual, I presume that this was an addendum made by Sony after the manual was printed and published. In any event, what is the purpose of the strips? It is obviously not to hold the trim in places in place, since the top trim is fastened with three screws. Did you go ahead and use them or did you blow it off?
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post #561 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

TAGATAYA
Thanks for the advice on the Dremel tools and your description of how it all came together. Because of time constraints and inexperience working with the Dremel I decided to go ahead with my plan to drop a precut 1 inch board into the cut out area, which I had already prepared, and set the TV on top of the board ad standard trim piece. It seems to work well but is not as elegant a solution as your approach.

Thanks again for the help. I know a lot more than I did about what Dremel tools to get if I later decide to change the mounting scheme.

KT

KTTV Images- good idea with the board. Can you please take a couple of photos of how you did this...and when you put the TV on, show us how it looks. Thanks so much as others are in the same boat with you. Thanks!!!
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post #562 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 09:24 PM
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Has anyone been able to enter the XBR2 service menu to determine whether overscan be disabled?

On all recent Samsung DLPs, overscan is enabled and 1:1 pixel mapping is disabled by default. By entering the service menu on these Samsungs, one can disable overscan, which enables 1:1 pixel mapping.

Could the same be true for the Sony XBR2? Or is the overscan on the XBR2 optical, as suggested previously in this thread?

I don't see how Sony can truthfully market this set as a 1920x1080 SXRD if the overscan is optical and fixed. If the ~8% overscan is optical, that means the true resolution of the XBR2 is closer to 1600x900 (this should say 1765x1020). As of right now, the Sony XBR2 isn't capable of displaying 1920x1080 resolution, as indicated by high-definition test patterns from a HD-DVD player.
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post #563 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Has anyone been able to enter the XBR2 service menu to determine whether overscan be disabled?

On all recent Samsung DLPs, overscan is enabled and 1:1 pixel mapping is disabled by default. By entering the service menu on these Samsungs, one can disable overscan, which enables 1:1 pixel mapping.

Could the same be true for the Sony XBR2? Or is the overscan on the XBR2 optical, as suggested previously in this thread?

I don't see how Sony can truthfully market this set as a 1920x1080 SXRD if the overscan is optical and fixed. If the ~8% overscan is optical, that means the true resolution of the XBR2 is closer to 1600x900. As of right now, the Sony XBR2 isn't capable of displaying 1920x1080 resolution, as indicated by resolution test patterns from a HD-DVD player.

all the new TV's have overscan problems ( sam, mits, tos, sony etc) when put on a pc. please not the mits when on dvi with the pc the highest was in 1700 X1700 (range) and the sony was in the 1800 X Range without overscan. So if the Sony is bad as you say, then I feel sorry for the other display also. and the overscan range for most of the new tv are 2 to 4 percent not 8 or more. Also, note some of the Sammy Tv's BW (cheat at getting 1080P)
Both Mits and Sony have 1:1. get your info correct.
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post #564 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Has anyone been able to enter the XBR2 service menu to determine whether overscan be disabled?

On all recent Samsung DLPs, overscan is enabled and 1:1 pixel mapping is disabled by default. By entering the service menu on these Samsungs, one can disable overscan, which enables 1:1 pixel mapping.

Could the same be true for the Sony XBR2? Or is the overscan on the XBR2 optical, as suggested previously in this thread?

I don't see how Sony can truthfully market this set as a 1920x1080 SXRD if the overscan is optical and fixed. If the ~8% overscan is optical, that means the true resolution of the XBR2 is closer to 1600x900. As of right now, the Sony XBR2 isn't capable of displaying 1920x1080 resolution, as indicated by resolution test patterns from a HD-DVD player.

I viewed the overscan image on Avia using the Tosh HD-A1 (hdmi to denon 4306 to hdmi out) on the 60" and it showed 10 pixel overscan top and 10 pixel overscan bottom and no overscan left or right. Has anyone else viewed the Avia test image? Should I retest with a direct connection?
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post #565 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 09:59 PM
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and the overscan range for most of the new tv are 2 to 4 percent not 8 or more. Also, note some of the Sammy Tv's BW (cheat at getting 1080P)
Both Mits and Sony have 1:1. get your info correct.

Did you read this thread? Several people have reported 8% horizontal overscan and 4-6% vertical overscan. This is total overscan, which I misinterpreted in my previous post. If the figures posted several times previously to this thread are accurate, then the actual resolution of the XBR2 is roughly 1765x1020, but not 1600x900.

Quote:


I viewed the overscan image on Avia using the Tosh HD-A1 (hdmi to denon 4306 to hdmi out) on the 60" and it showed 10 pixel overscan top and 10 pixel overscan bottom and no overscan left or right. Has anyone else viewed the Avia test image?

If you could, please burn the HD-DVD test disk (using a standard DVD) at this site: http://www.w6rz.net/

That said, I would still like to know whether the overscan on the XBR2 is optical -- as suggested by some posters -- or interpolated like the Samsung 1080p DLPs do by default. Interpolated overscan can often be fixed / disabled via the service menu. On the Samsung 1080p displays, the default overscan is 4-8%, but once disabled in the service menu, you get 1:1 pixel mapping with closer to 1-2% overscan.
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post #566 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 10:09 PM
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What are the main differences between the R60XBR2 and KDS-60A2000....is there a huge difference in PQ?

One of these sets may potentially be my first HD TV..............but they sure are costly. How is standard tv?

I read some reports about green spots with the KDS-60A2000, hope it's not a often occurence.

All input will be greatly appreciated!
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post #567 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 10:31 PM
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Could the same be true for the Sony XBR2? Or is the overscan on the XBR2 optical, as suggested previously in this thread?

I don't see how Sony can truthfully market this set as a 1920x1080 SXRD if the overscan is optical and fixed. If the ~8% overscan is optical, that means the true resolution of the XBR2 is closer to 1600x900 (this should say 1765x1020). As of right now, the Sony XBR2 isn't capable of displaying 1920x1080 resolution, as indicated by high-definition test patterns from a HD-DVD player.

My VP50 puts out a 1920x1080 checkboard (it can output at 1080p), also single pixel vertical lines, and horizonal lines. Connected to my 70" XBR2, I can see the individual pixels/lines, so 1:1 mapping is happening and the resolution of the set is 1080p from a 1080p input. So electronically, everything seems to be correct. But, I do see an overscan, so I think that is most likely optical.

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post #568 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by toofargone View Post

I viewed the overscan image on Avia using the Tosh HD-A1 (hdmi to denon 4306 to hdmi out) on the 60" and it showed 10 pixel overscan top and 10 pixel overscan bottom and no overscan left or right. Has anyone else viewed the Avia test image? Should I retest with a direct connection?

I haven't used Avia, but I have used both the VP50's border test at 1080p, and the HDNet test screen (1080i fed into the VP50 and out at 1080p). Measuring by how much underscan I need to apply from the VP50, both gave about the same results (i.e. I had to set underscan to the about the same value for both tests.)

I'm a little less comfortable about relating that to pixels or %, but on the HDNet test screen, horizontal is at about 8, and vertical at about 4 on that test screen.

Now, am I willing to give up the resolution of 1:1 mapping to correct the overscan? Jury is still out.

eric

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post #569 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 11:06 PM
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I'm a little less comfortable about relating that to pixels or %, but on the HDNet test screen, horizontal is at about 8, and vertical at about 4 on that test screen.

When displaying a 1920x1080 test pattern, if 8% of the resolution isn't shown due to overscan, that is 8% of that resolution you aren't getting.

I would take 1:1 pixel mapping over overscan, for sure. But it is disappointing that the figure is so high. Sony really should have used interpolated overscan for 480i, 720p, and 1080i sources -- that could be disabled through a menu -- but left the overscan for native 1080p sources at under 2% vertical and horizontal.

I don't mean to suggest that the Sony is the only display that suffers from this issue -- many others certainly do. But when you pay a premium for a display like the XBR2, you really shouldn't have 8% optical overscan, which means you only see 1765 of the 1920 pixels in every frame. That's significantly less than you get with a $1000-$2000 less expensive Samsung DLP [with RBE], which has less than half that overscan after pixel mapping is enabled in the service menu.

I see no reason why Sony would make such a design choice. I can only assume it was a oversight.
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post #570 of 12065 Old 10-08-2006, 11:21 PM
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I see no reason why Sony would make such a design choice. I can only assume it was a oversight.

No, there's no way it was an oversight. It was CYA to avoid $7000 returns on misaligned light engines.

What I wonder is if there's some way a tech could get in and add a spacer under the light engine to effectively bring it closer to the screen. Focus might be a problem, but you could certainly reduce overscan by doing that. Heck, maybe there's some proper optical adjustment that could be made once the TV is in situ and no longer in danger of taking large, de-aligning thumps during shipping. I doubt that, though, as I assume the optical assembly is totally fixed.
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