Official Sony XBR2 (60" & 70") Owner's Thread - Page 23 - AVS Forum
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post #661 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 10:09 AM
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SOrry that was for PC input
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post #662 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 10:18 AM
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Ok so I finally got it setup KDS-R60XBR2. Was a bit of a pain since I can first hand confirm that the SUGW12 stand does not fit the new XBR2 ... lesson learned.

The quick and dirty: I have no HD sources yet but I am still very pleased with the purchase. Only major flaw PC connection using DVI-HDMI (which is not recommended by the manual has major overscan). All my sources are 480p or lower with minimal tweaking of picture settings and the pic looks great so I can't wait to see what this does with HD content.

Disclaimer: I am not a videophile so I'm probably not going to have a good eye for the level of detail you guys want so if you want pics of something as long as you give precise instructions I'm happy to help out.

I have some screenshots below, however I'll take some later in better lighting conditions:

1st HD impressions will have to wait until next week. Currently I have no 1080p/i sources to feed this thing with. SD (while still OK) is not what I bought this for in the first place so while I could complain about that my reason for getting this set was:
1. Great reviews of the XBR1
2. Upgrading from owning nothing bigger than a 27inch CRT also a sony
3. Getting ready for 1080 source viewing
4. Between LCD and this I was getting a lot more inputs and a larger screen for the same price points.
5. Knocked out the 46XBR2 and SHarp 46D62U which were the other models I was considering.

In my honest PERSONAL opinion if you do a lot of SD viewing stick with a CRT until SED comes out, thats not what any of these sets LCD, DLP ... are optimally built for.

Some things I am pleased about:
1. Given that I am coming from never having owned anything larger than 27inch CRT's the big screen automatically is going to have the WOW factor for me. Only fault with that is I've had to downgrade my hotness scores for a lot of the actresses because they don't have the benfit of a soft picture anymore so blemishes show through.
2. Given all the talk about black levels and crushing, I am not seeing any of those issues here, at least that I can tell.
3. SD processing is (again IMHO) a lot better than the LCD XBR2's which I was looking at earlier
4. Love the Twinview especially since I can surf the web and watch my Sci-Fi at the same time
5. Xbox looks great but I really want to get a HDMI cable when it comes out to see what it really can do.
6. I can't see and SSE
7. No green blobs that I can see. If there are specific conditions that this occurs in I'd be happy to try that out.

Some things I am dissappointed in:

1. What is the point of Twinview if only one source can be HDMI. Slightly Pi$$ed at that. Could it be because the processing chip can't handle it?
2. WTH -> Overscan over DVI-HDMI, it's so bad that I can not see most of the icons on the left hand side and most of the start button.

Note I haven't tried VGA yet but this is dissapointing.

This bugs me because I would eventually like to get a home media PC and if this is the output I can expect... anyone have a fix yet ... or anyone know of a way maybe using a cheap scaler to get around this. Also anyone know that if I get a video card with HDMI output whether it would display correctly?

Like I said at the beginning I am pleased with the purchase with the only major gripe being overscan that I haven't tested through the recommended VGA port, and that's with only 480p content. For all of those complaining about no WOW factor... I suspect you'll see that next week when:
1. HD dual tuner cable box comes in
2. Oppo 971h comes in
3. I'll hopefully have a proper DVI-VGA adapter and the overscan problem will be alleviated if not removed entirely.

So now you'll just have to settle for IMPRESSED.

Screen Caps
---------------
Capture of 480p DVD source via component inputs

Capture of XBox 360 source via component inputs

Capture of PC input DVI-HDMI Shows major overscan

Capture of actual PC screen

Halo Wars Screen Cap playing through XBox360 via component input

Halo Wars Screen Cap playing through XBox360 via component input

Halo Wars Screen Cap playing through XBox360 via component input
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post #663 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 10:24 AM
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Now that I can post attachment's here's a pic of my set up for now.
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post #664 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 10:30 AM
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why doesn't anyone ever say what price they got their TV for. It would be great to see what deals others are getting at Tweeter and the like for us prospective buyers.
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post #665 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 10:35 AM
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because it is against forum rules

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My 60GB PS3 died from over heating - I have a strong feeling Folding didn't help
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post #666 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 10:44 AM
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Makes no sense to me why a chain store's prices need to be protected by an enthusiast's forum
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post #667 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 10:51 AM
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Looks great bravada
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post #668 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 11:00 AM
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Looks good Bravada - how far do you sit back from the screen?
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post #669 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 11:22 AM
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Initial XBR2 reactions.

Hi everyone. I finally got my XBR1 replaced by a new 60 inch XBR2 on saturday and I have been working on investigating the behavior of the various sharpness controls and their effects on Picture Quality.

I will have more to say on this later but for now I would like to give you a few of my initial reactions on the overall behavior of the XBR2.

1. Know past problem behavior:
I have no significant Color Non-uniformity problems, although it is not perfect.

I do not see any sign of green Blob at power up -even during the 1st 60 seconds.

I have a very small amount of inward pinch, as many have reported on this thread in the middle of the 4:3 images, but I can live with this. Geometry at 16:9 is perfect.

Unfortunately I do have some visible misconvergence (at my normal 7 foot viewing distance) across the top upper half and the left side . There is at least 2 pixels of misconvergence. The lower right side is completely free of misconvergence. If I can find the Service Menu instructions for V and H convergence that several posters may have published I want to attempt to seek a compromise across the entire screen -favoring the center, and I think, if that is possible it will be acceptable.

Along that line, Could someone let me know if it has been determined if the XBR2 service menu allows 1 pixel step convergence movements in both V and H directions? If so, a link to those instructions would be greatly appreciated.

2. The XBR2 appears to be hotter than the XBR1.
In other words all the sharpness -DRC -- and detail enhancement controls have more effect than they I am used to on the XBR1 (which I have had since January). These controls need to be used with more care or the Images begin to look artificial and "artifacty" (hows that for a new word?).

3. Low level Noise reduction always applied?
I think the XBR2 has now included a certain low level amount of Noise Reduction which can not be turned off. There is some evidence that this is producing a slight amount of motion blurring , but I can not say yet how significant this is. On the plus side the Noise reduction will make certain Video Camera programs that are noisy -like Two and 1/2 Men - look a tad cleaner than usual. I think Sony claimed lower noise for their new HD XBR2 Light Engine -perhaps this is how they accomplished that.

4. Edge Enhancement control inactive?:
It appears that the Edge Enhancement control is relatively inactive. I have 2 instances so far where I can see some effect, but for all other images I see no effect at all in turning this control from Off to High, I find this very strange and completely different from the same control on the XBR1. I would be very interested in the comments of new XBR2 owners who have tried this control. I sense that my problem is not confined to my specific set, and I would like to confirm this.

5. The DRC Mode 2 with SD-480i sources via 1080i HDMI not as effective as I hoped:
To my dismay I have not found as yet the DRC Mode 2 control to be helpful for SD and 480i sources, perhaps this is because , as AKINGHOTI on this thread has found the Cinemotion control needs to be turned on with SD 480i sources. Thanks for that report . I will try this trick and see what it produces.

6. Picture brightness may be too high for night time:
For my taste I have found the picture brightness to be too high for night time viewing. The only solution for me is to do something that is completely wrong in theory. I have to turn down the Picture to say 85-59. This will harm the Contrast ratio , but it may still be a better compromise than to leave the brightness at such a high level. With time this level will drop, the problem will go away and the overall brightness capability will help out as the lamp brightness drops (I found this clearly did drop to a lower level than I liked after say, 2500 hours, with my XBR1)

7. Color Matrix control:
The new Color Matrix control is interesting to try out and I think is an outstanding new addition to the XBR2. If you have the disk, try playing DVE test disk at 1080i over an HDMi cable,and take a look at the color differences in the dinner table setting (still frame) when you switch between 709 (incorrect for SD) and 609 (correct for SD - 480i ).

Thats all for now. I will try to suggest some new -revised control settings for the XBR2 later when I have a better understanding of how they all are working. They definitely do not behave the same as the XBR1.

Edit: Reference # 5 above: DRC may have improved SD performance in certain case.:

I have now had a chance to try turning on Cinemotion and at the same time changing the output format of my YD Tivy.

I have an HR 10-250 Hughes Tivo. This Tivo does not feed SD movies well to the XBR sets at 1080i. It produces a vertical loss in resolution manifested as horizontal segments of lines fot example at the top and bottom of curved edges, along the edges of eyes and with lettering. The same is true of the XBR2.
However there is a cure - and that is to switch the Tivo output to 480i and let the Sony XBR's do the necessary scaling and deinterlacing. You will find this Vertical resolution artifact goes away.
Now, with Cinemotion turned on, per the suggestion of AKINGHOTI (thanks), I find the SD movies from Directv through the HR 10 look clearly better (but not really good enough yet) than with the XBR1. It appears that there is less Mosquito Noise (moving artifacts around the edges of objects). These are the first such findings I have run across so far in 3 days of experimenting.
So Sony has made a little progress.

8. 2nd Edit addition: New Wide Zoom mode;
It appears the new XBR2 has changed the Wide Zoom behavior for the better. This wide mode is useful for SD 480i shows and movies that normally are 4:3. Using this mode expands the width of the picture to fill the full 16x 9 frame. However it does so by leaving the center area relatively linear and stretching mostly the sides and somewhat the top. To limit the amount of stretch, there is a compromise in the height in that the top and bottom are now squeezed slightly and cut off slightly. I like it. " Amazing?" -- "Your results may vary".

KT
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post #670 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bravada View Post

I ran into an issue with my SA8300HD and 70XBR2 that I thought I'd mention here for anyone else new to HDMI. After connecting the SA8300HD via HDMI I was noticing that I was only getting Stereo sound through my receiver on programming with 5.1 audio. I checked the advanced settings on the cable box and audio out was set to HDMI. I switched it back to Dolby Digital and got the 5.1 audio working again but now the audio doesn't go through the TV speakers. Anyone know how I can keep both active without having to go into the settings menu every time I want to switch between the two?

The basic problem is that no TV today accepts 5.1 audio on its HDMI ports. I don't know why this is. (Anyone who knows, please explain.) Many sources can't do stereo on HDMI and simultaneously do 5.1 on the digital audio output.

The SA8300HD is in this category. The only easy out is to use a component connection and analog audio to the TV.
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post #671 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 11:36 AM
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Thanks for the initial impressions KTTV. Although I admire this thread's refusal to incessantly discuss the existence or non-existence of the green blob a simple note like yours is very helpful. I suspect there are many like me that are very interested in the XBR2 and are considering the jump if we monitor this site for several weeks and see no hint of the green blob issue. We'd also like to see the XBR2 handle SB better than the XBR1 and A2000, but that seems unlikely or at least tough to determine without a side-by-side comparison.
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post #672 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 11:38 AM
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XBR2s and grass

I'm on the fence between the 65831 Mits and these two sets. I saw one post that identified an allegedly clear difference between the sets--the Sonys displayed grass much more accurately, when, for example, watching motion in a football game. If true, this is a big deal to me. Has anyone else noticed this?

There is another thread with a poll regarding "alive grass" with posts that suggest all TVs and all sources have this problem or some other grass problem, while a post in the 831 thread suggests that any grass problem with the 831s is introduced by the new D* HD DVR with locals coming in MPEG 4. If anyone has an opinion on that let me know. That would mean the XBR2s would have a similar issue if using D* with non-OTA locals and the new HD DVR. Has anyone noticed this?
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post #673 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bravada View Post

Now that I can post attachment's here's a pic of my set up for now.

nice setup bravada. What stand is that ?
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post #674 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrg33 View Post

After doing a ton of research, I have ordered the Denon 1930CI (just couldn't stomach the price of the 2930). The video processor on the new 1930CI seems to be the best in the $300 range. It also outputs at 1080P through HDMI so it can pass straight through the Yamaha RX-V2700 and the 70" XBR2. It will all be hooked up in two weeks (waiting for the media room addition to be completed) and I will post my impressions.

I had the 2930CI for 2 days. Worked great day 1, broke day 2. I wish you better luck.
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post #675 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

Initial XBR2 reactions.
7. Color Matrix control:
The new Color Matrix control is interesting to try out and I think is an outstanding new addition to the XBR2. If you have the disk, try playing DVE test disk at 1080i over an HDMi cable,and take a look at the color differences in the dinner table setting (still frame) when you switch between 709 (incorrect for SD) and 609 (correct for SD - 480i ).
KT

KTTV,
Glad you got your set. Your comments were most helpful to me early on when mine arrived.

For those interested in a detailed explanation of the ITU-R BT.709 and ITU-R
BT.601 specifications, WSR has a detailed article about it this month written by Mr. Color himself. It does a nice job of explaining how the specs. are currently working with various sources and display devices and what the challenges are.

BJBBJB
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post #676 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 11:52 AM
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For those complaining about overscan, we'll have to wait until an ISF calibrator gets into the service menu. On a related note, I'm all set to get my XBR2 ISF'd next month by David Abrams so we'll see if he can fix any overscan my set has (when it is delivered on Saturday).
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post #677 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

Is this something that needs to be set up for every input?...If I set up one input for CineMotion (Auto) while in 480i, or will it only effect the one input I'm setting it in?

It's per input, yes.
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post #678 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesMoss View Post

The basic problem is that no TV today accepts 5.1 audio on its HDMI ports. I don't know why this is. (Anyone who knows, please explain.) Many sources can't do stereo on HDMI and simultaneously do 5.1 on the digital audio output.

The SA8300HD is in this category. The only easy out is to use a component connection and analog audio to the TV.

Most TV speakers suck anyway. If you have nice HT speakers then it shouldn't matter if you have sound out of your XBR2 speakers. I know I'm not planning to use them at all on my 60" (which makes it frustrating that they aren't removable like the 70")
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post #679 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 12:04 PM
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KTTV

Thanks for initial review. Look forward to hearing more.

Regarding the high brightness of the set, isn't the Iris adjustment preferred to dim the set as you maintain the proper linearity in the contrast settings?

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #680 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupraLB View Post

Looks good Bravada - how far do you sit back from the screen?

11' but I'm considering moving closer due to the fact I got used to sitting 7' away from my KDP-65XBR2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LesMoss View Post

The basic problem is that no TV today accepts 5.1 audio on its HDMI ports. I don't know why this is. (Anyone who knows, please explain.) Many sources can't do stereo on HDMI and simultaneously do 5.1 on the digital audio output.

The SA8300HD is in this category. The only easy out is to use a component connection and analog audio to the TV.

I figured as much. Thanks for the confirmation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthJersey View Post

nice setup bravada. What stand is that ?

It's a BDI Icon 9427. The Store I bought the TV from had a QUALIA 006 paired up with this stand and it matched my decor plus had room for my center speaker which is what sold me on it.
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post #681 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

KTTV

Thanks for initial review. Look forward to hearing more.

Regarding the high brightness of the set, isn't the Iris adjustment preferred to dim the set as you maintain the proper linearity in the contrast settings?

Yes it is. But even with Iris set to low or Auto 2 (and lamp power on reduced) it is still to bright for me.

Kt
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post #682 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 12:31 PM
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Hello KTTV, where do you have your brightness & picture set?

When life gives you limes, make margaritas
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post #683 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Hello KTTV, where do you have your brightness & picture set?

I find so far with good HD sources the brightness needs to be raised above the default-say to about the 54-56 range. With Tivo movies i am using about 60.

Normally I leave picture at full on unless at night the picture is just too bright -as i indicated in my recent post.

Incidently I find the Color level on HD needs to be lowered (because of perhaps a 5 % Red push) to about the 42-44 range (similar to my XBR1).

Kt
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post #684 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 01:05 PM
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Rec Room

You Have A Pm
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post #685 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

I understand how brightness/picture and auto iris can effect picture "brightness" however how does a "power saving" effect "brightness levels"?

From the manual:

"select to reduce the power consumption by adjusting the lamp brightness. This also enhances the black level. Select Auto, On or Off."


But no information on how auto works.

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post #686 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

Incidently I find the Color level on HD needs to be lowered (because of perhaps a 5 % Red push) to about the 42-44 range (similar to my XBR1).

Kt

What do you have the Color Temp set to?

Warm 1/Warm 2 looked too reddish for me, so I've gone with Neutral and trying to calibrate from there, but I know others seem to prefer starting with Warm 1.

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post #687 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald K View Post

Could someone with a 70" xbr2 give me the exact width without the speakers?

I know Sony's specs say 68.6" - but I only have 67".

I would be replacing a 73" Mits in custom cabinets (The Mits is only 65" wide).

Heres hoping the specs are wrong.

Thanks in advance.

Ron

The web site is wrong, so download the manual instead, and refer to that. As someone said (in a later thread), it's 67.5. However, if you are willing to leave off the side trim pieces that are supposed to replace the dumbo ears, it certainly looks like you would end up at just about 67, or a hair under (from the edge of one glass panel to the other). BUT, you should try to catch someone how can measure the width while they still have those off, so they can get you exactly what you need. It's going to be close, if you use that approach.

All, FWIW.
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post #688 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

Most TV speakers suck anyway. If you have nice HT speakers then it shouldn't matter if you have sound out of your XBR2 speakers. I know I'm not planning to use them at all on my 60"

True, but many of us like to be able to use the TV as just a TV. Why fire up surround sound for CNN? I find the noisy football crowd behind me in 5.1 is annoying, so I turn it off. It should work, even if you don't want to use it. (Like closed caption.) Not to mention the simplicity of having only one audio connection to your amp.

But, please, someone, tell me why no TV does it, even though they do support 5.1 sound (with SRS) via the tuner (and on firewire on some sets).
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post #689 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBergan View Post

What do you have the Color Temp set to?

Warm 1/Warm 2 looked too reddish for me, so I've gone with Neutral and trying to calibrate from there, but I know others seem to prefer starting with Warm 1.

I would bet Mode 2 is probably correct most of the time. If you are unacustomed to 6500 degrees K white balance, it will take a while to get used to the correct color. Joe Kane (VDE creator) used to say- take 1-2 weeks and live with it and then see what colored shows look like. In essence you are probably used to 12-15000 degrees K -which is way too blue--then when you remove the blue at 6500 k the screen may look reddish at first as you have seen.

Try this--go outside of your house and look at the widows at night. if you see a blue glow inside the house the color TV is set too to blue a White balance -typically 1500 K.

Try it at Mode 2 ..it will be better than the upper settings --you'll like it.

KT
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post #690 of 12058 Old 10-10-2006, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

Initial XBR2 reactions.

Hi everyone. I finally got my XBR1 replaced by a new 60 inch XBR2 on saturday and I have been working on investigating the behavior of the various sharpness controls and their effects on Picture Quality.


KT

Hi KT, glad to hear you got your new set. How did it work out with your SUGW12 stand modifications?
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