Official Sony XBR2 (60" & 70") Owner's Thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AikenGhoti View Post

Chances are pretty good that the blurriness you see was in the original signal and your VP50 was doing some sharpening as it scaled up.

Put your TV in DRC mode 1 and try adjusting the DRC palette. The vertical axis is some sort of sharpener, and the horizontal is some sort of smoother.

Of course, there's always plain old Sharpness to fiddle with. There's also the Edge Enhance in the Advanced setting, and Detail Enhance as well. Edge Enhance is actually pretty clever, similar to Unsharp Mask in Photoshop, though you really wouldn't want much of it.

These things are all artificial, but I'd assume some combination of them would give you pretty much the same results. Perhaps not, it depends on exactly how clever the VP50 is about removing jaggies. The XBR2 seems pretty good at it. I'm always impressed with how clean and smooth SD text becomes when it is scaled up.

EDGE ENHANCER:
Your comment on the Edge Enhancer sounds very interesting.
To-date I have been unable to find any image "sharpness" characteristics that are controlled by the Edge Enhancement control. The mystery to me then is -- what is this control doing and why can I not see any effect from use of the control? I must be looking in the wrong areas of the image.

I understand what the Unsharp Mask is doing in Photoshop and it is a very effective sharpness tool..the best in my opinion, But I have not seen anything like that effect in the XBR2 so far..but I sure would like it if I did (the detail control is very effective and it's effects are easy to see).

So, could you possibly describe what you see change when you use this control, and perhaps what type of image or portion of an image that seems to be sharpened. I have tried other XBR2 sets and the LCD XBR2 and in all cases I can not seem to see it having any effect.

Sony must have some reason to include the control in the Advanced menu , and it looks like you may have spotted it. It would be great if I could find out what to look for and learn what this control is doing. Your input would be appreciated.
Thanks,

KT
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post #1082 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjufon View Post

Crutchfield is the best, but you pay a little extra (well worth it IMO) though.
i bough the Sony 34" 960 from them and after getting it home, it was too small. i called CF and pre-ordered the 50" XBR1 but it wouldn't be available until well after my 30 day return expired. CF stated this was no problem, just keep it until the 50" arrives. they picked up the old one and installed the new one.
Their customer service is the best of any company i've ever dealt with!

JJ

I don't have any experience with Crutchfield, but I note that you can get a 1% rebate through FatWallet (dot) com

(I do have experience with FatWallet. Haven't had any problems.)
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post #1083 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 03:25 PM
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I bought a 70" XBR2 today at a local store since they had a good price on it. I'm going to have it delivered to my new condo sometime in the next week or two (not in a big hurry since I'm not moving in for a couple of weeks). Bought some pricey $800 glass/metal stand they had there too (not too happy abou the price on that one but it was the best they had).
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post #1084 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by stixx View Post

based on the retail price posted on SonyStyle for the 70", does a 17% discount sound reasonable to you guys oor have been getting better?

I got mine for 22% off Sony's Site. PM me and I will tell you how
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post #1085 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 05:03 PM
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Hello everyone. This is my first post, however I have been hanging around the forums learning as much as I possibly could before my "big puchase." Thanks to everyone for all the great info! Anyway, after a ton of research I pulled the trigger on a 60" SXRD XBR2. I had it delivered on Saturday and immediately tuned in my local HD OTA channels. Luckily college football was on and I enjoyed some great HD viewing. PQ to my eyes is great! I do see some SSE but I think I will be able to live with it. I do notice that the better the feed, the less the SSE. Overall everything looks great, however.................can someone explain the green blob in more detail? I am worried that I may have it!

When a black screen comes up, for instance a night sky, the upper right corner of the screen glows brighter than the rest of the screen with a slightly green tinge. My parents were visiting for the week-end and as soon as I pointed it out to my dad he noticed it too. My wife even said she sees it so I don't think I'm dreaming it up. I don't see anything during any other scenes, only when the entire screen is black for a few seconds. I don't mean to cause an alarm on here but I need to know what this is! Tomorrow I plan on heading down to UE where I bought the set to talk to my sales person. I want this thing exchanged if this is a defect. There is no way I should be paying this much for a set and not be able to enjoy dark scenes. I'm glad I'm still within my 30 day return period in case things don't work out. Please let me know your thoughts because other than this I love the set.
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post #1086 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

So, could you possibly describe what you see change when you use this control, and perhaps what type of image or portion of an image that seems to be sharpened. I have tried other XBR2 sets and the LCD XBR2 and in all cases I can not seem to see it having any effect.

If memory serves, I had my series 2 TiVo's Now Playing List on screen and I was messing around with all of the "enhance"-style controls, including DRC, to see how they affected text.

I'm pretty sure that when I turned up the edge enhance, the edges of the anti-aliased (and thus slightly fuzzy) characters began to become extremely crisp, though without becoming jaggy, since it was also being scaled up fairly intelligently from SD to 1080p.

The other thing I played around with was the DRC mode 1 palette, which does some pretty severe stuff if you turn up both axes. I may be thinking of this, but I'm pretty sure I'm not, because the effect of the vertical axis is much more like a regular sharpen filter.

For example, given this signal:
Code:
   _____
        \\ 
         \\  
          \\_____
Sharpen would give you this gross result:
Code:
   ___/\\
        \\ 
         \\  
          \\  ___
           \\/
While edge enhance would give you this more-acceptable result:
Code:
   ______
         |
         |  
         |______
I'm not at home right now, or I'd be better able to tell you what the exact process/results were. Like I said, it may have been the vertical DRC axis instead.
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post #1087 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkster View Post

I pulled the trigger on a 60" SXRD XBR2.....Overall everything looks great, however.................can someone explain the green blob in more detail? I am worried that I may have it!


The above statement actually made me feel sick for a moment. I pray that this is not an issue on the SXRD XBR2 sets.

Does anyone know if this issue has been reported on the XB2's as of yet (besides the above post by blinkster)? I will be getting my 60" XBR2 delivered tomorrow and I am very worried about this. If anyone has any info on this problem with the XBR2 sets, please post. I have read through many posts on this thread, but I haven't read of this problem (until now) on the new XBR2's. I hate to admit it, but...I actually fear "The Blob"!!!
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post #1088 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magoo View Post

The above statement actually made me feel sick for a moment. I pray that this is not an issue on the SXRD XBR2 sets.

Does anyone know if this issue has been reported on the XB2's as of yet (besides the above post by blinkster)? I will be getting my 60" XBR2 delivered tomorrow and I am very worried about this. If anyone has any info on this problem with the XBR2 sets, please post. I have read through many posts on this thread, but I haven't read of this problem (until now) on the new XBR2's. I hate to admit it, but...I actually fear "The Blob"!!!

I, too, fear the blob. My 60"-er has demonstrated absolutely nothing of the sort. None, nada, not even if I try really hard to imagine it--and believe me I am looking. Not to discount blinkster--she may have a prob. But with 1 post (a bit smarmy one at that) I'm not bitin' jest yet. (All due apologies to blinkster if you're the real deal, but I have read no small amount of C-rap on this board about green blob doomsday.)
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post #1089 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AikenGhoti View Post

If memory serves, I had my series 2 TiVo's Now Playing List on screen and I was messing around with all of the "enhance"-style controls, including DRC, to see how they affected text.

I'm pretty sure that when I turned up the edge enhance, the edges of the anti-aliased (and thus slightly fuzzy) characters began to become extremely crisp, though without becoming jaggy, since it was also being scaled up fairly intelligently from SD to 1080p.

The other thing I played around with was the DRC mode 1 palette, which does some pretty severe stuff if you turn up both axes. I may be thinking of this, but I'm pretty sure I'm not, because the effect of the vertical axis is much more like a regular sharpen filter.

For example, given this signal:
Code:
 
   _____ 
        \\  
         \\   
          \\_____
Sharpen would give you this gross result:
Code:
 
   ___/\\ 
        \\  
         \\   
          \\  ___ 
           \\/
While edge enhance would give you this more-acceptable result:
Code:
 
   ______ 
         | 
         |   
         |______
I'm not at home right now, or I'd be better able to tell you what the exact process/results were. Like I said, it may have been the vertical DRC axis instead.


Thanks for the reply.
I wonder if you may have been adjusting the 1st control in the main menu - near the bottom - called "Detail Enhancer". The one under it is the "Edge Enhancer" , and this is the one I am referring to that on the sets I have tested -does nothing to the image I can see. Could you try adjusting this again --flip from Off to high --and see if that is the control that looked like an Unsharp mask.
I Have 2 DirectV Tivo's and will try to duplicate your experiment here.

I agree with your comments on the DRC controls . Certainly raising the ball on the Y axis sharpens the image a lot.

Thanks again,
KT
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post #1090 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 06:31 PM
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First off, blinkster is a he...not a she. As for the validity of my post, trust me I am not making anything up. I just spent a bunch of cash on a new set and am seeing what I staed above. I thought I would post here because there seems to be many well informed people around here who are generally happy to help others out. I was just looking for an opinion or two before I went to talk about replacement tomorrow. Again, any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!
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post #1091 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjufon View Post

Update:
Sony shipped my replacement XBR2 on friday, 10/13/2006 and the moving ccompany called me today for a wednesday delivery!
Not bad.

JJ

You're right, not bad at all. Mine shipped from Sony in PA on the 16th, estimated date to arrive 60 some odd miles from me is on the 23rd...... That's seven freakin' day's...... God I hope it get's here sooner.... LOL...
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post #1092 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Foo View Post

I'm using a 880 with my 70" and it works pretty well.

The only quirk was that in the database it has inputs numbered up to 7 and then the next one is marked PC input. I had my HD-DVD player hooked up to input 8 (HDMI) and chose PC input. It worked.

So, PC input in the Harmony database for this set is actually input 8 (the second HDMI input).

For those looking for a great universal remote, this one is it (until the newer models come out perhaps). I am really pleased with it and it is well worth the $.

FYI for Harmony users... if you have a 60" XBR2 just tell it you have a 70" and follow the advice above from Mr. Foo. They don't have the 60" in their database and the "suggested" sets don't work right.
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post #1093 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkster View Post

Hello everyone. This is my first post, however I have been hanging around the forums learning as much as I possibly could before my "big puchase." Thanks to everyone for all the great info! Anyway, after a ton of research I pulled the trigger on a 60" SXRD XBR2. I had it delivered on Saturday and immediately tuned in my local HD OTA channels. Luckily college football was on and I enjoyed some great HD viewing. PQ to my eyes is great! I do see some SSE but I think I will be able to live with it. I do notice that the better the feed, the less the SSE. Overall everything looks great, however.................can someone explain the green blob in more detail? I am worried that I may have it!

When a black screen comes up, for instance a night sky, the upper right corner of the screen glows brighter than the rest of the screen with a slightly green tinge. My parents were visiting for the week-end and as soon as I pointed it out to my dad he noticed it too. My wife even said she sees it so I don't think I'm dreaming it up. I don't see anything during any other scenes, only when the entire screen is black for a few seconds. I don't mean to cause an alarm on here but I need to know what this is! Tomorrow I plan on heading down to UE where I bought the set to talk to my sales person. I want this thing exchanged if this is a defect. There is no way I should be paying this much for a set and not be able to enjoy dark scenes. I'm glad I'm still within my 30 day return period in case things don't work out. Please let me know your thoughts because other than this I love the set.

Hi Blinkster,

It may be easier for you to identify a possible problem with your set if you could try this: Use Warm 2.. Turn your color control all the way down to 0. Then watch whatever programs you like and see if you still notice any color non-uniformity (colored areas not present on the rest of the screen).

As you described it the greenish tint is when you are looking at Blacks. Look carefully and see if you see the same thing in blacks on other parts of the screen, If so, you can most liikely easily correct the problem using the Green Bias adjustment in the White Balance control section

Hopefully your problem was in the source you were using.
So Far, no one else has reported a problem of this type with the new XBR2s.

Good luck
KT
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post #1094 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkster View Post

First off, blinkster is a he...not a she. As for the validity of my post, trust me I am not making anything up. I just spent a bunch of cash on a new set and am seeing what I staed above. I thought I would post here because there seems to be many well informed people around here who are generally happy to help others out. I was just looking for an opinion or two before I went to talk about replacement tomorrow. Again, any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Blinkster--as I said all due apologies. You may well be the victim of many a less honest poster/jokester/fakester. I am definitely happy to compare notes. I have not seen any problems of the green kind (tho, I am still not completely holding my breath that one won't crop up). Any chance you could post a picture of your problem?

--tfg

ps. re: the "she" thing...I generally assume all posters are female unless proven otherwise....your gender is duly noted.
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post #1095 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 06:41 PM
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Thanks KTTV. I will give this a try right now. Hopefully this solves the problem however with my luck..... Thanks again, I'll report back soon.
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post #1096 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

FYI for Harmony users... if you have a 60" XBR2 just tell it you have a 70" and follow the advice above from Mr. Foo. They don't have the 60" in their database and the "suggested" sets don't work right.

What? I have the 880, paid a good deal of money for it, (well for a remote anyway). I have the 60" on the way. I have the 50" XBR1 now and the 880 works great with it, all my other equipment, except maybe the 360 which it messes up sometimes. I hope that Logitech can rectify this situation before next week....
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post #1097 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 06:42 PM
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Toofargone, no problem. My biggest fault is that I am probably too honest!!
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post #1098 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkster View Post

First off, blinkster is a he...not a she. As for the validity of my post, trust me I am not making anything up. I just spent a bunch of cash on a new set and am seeing what I staed above. I thought I would post here because there seems to be many well informed people around here who are generally happy to help others out. I was just looking for an opinion or two before I went to talk about replacement tomorrow. Again, any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Well since my set is the first defective set posted here, I believe you although I would recommend taking a picture to show everyone here. That will help us see what you are seeing but the moral of the store is that I'd exchange it if you are concerned.
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post #1099 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlogle View Post

What? I have the 880, paid a good deal of money for it, (well for a remote anyway). I have the 60" on the way. I have the 50" XBR1 now and the 880 works great with it, all my other equipment, except maybe the 360 which it messes up sometimes. I hope that Logitech can rectify this situation before next week....

Woah dude, walk away from the edge! I'm just saying they don't even had the "KDS-R60XBR2" in their database and when you put that in the "suggest" setting for you. I found it easier to just put in that I have the 70 and then followed what Mr Foo said. Works fine like that although I wish it were a "clean" install and they just had the 60 in there correctly from the start.
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post #1100 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 06:59 PM
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OK, i tried adjusting color all the way to 0. When watching a DVD, I still see the "green glow" in the upper right hand corner and a little along the right side and bottom left corner. The most noticable is when I simply switch inputs and the screen goes black for a few seconds, or if I switch to an input without a feed and see just a black screen.

Toofargone, I will post a picture but my wife has the camera tonight so I can't until she gets home. Of course I'll have to figure out how to attach a photo too!
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post #1101 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkster View Post

OK, i tried adjusting color all the way to 0. When watching a DVD, I still see the "green glow" in the upper right hand corner and a little along the right side and bottom left corner. The most noticable is when I simply switch inputs and the screen goes black for a few seconds, or if I switch to an input without a feed and see just a black screen.

Toofargone, I will post a picture but my wife has the camera tonight so I can't until she gets home. Of course I'll have to figure out how to attach a photo too!

Just take a picture and upload it to fliker. I couldn't figure out how to upload to here and it's way easier that way.

If your set is really has the green glob then you need to swap it out for another one.

I'm getting my 2nd XBR2 on Friday. If mine isn't ok right off the bat this time then I'm going to have to get something else like a Pioneer 1080p plasma (unlikely) or a JVC (more likely if I HAVE to).
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post #1102 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofargone View Post

Bps. re: the "she" thing...I generally assume all posters are female unless proven otherwise....your gender is duly noted.

Fair enough.

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post #1103 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by toofargone View Post

I generally assume all posters are female unless proven otherwise....your gender is duly noted.

I normally do the exact opposite.
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post #1104 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 07:21 PM
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OK, so the engineer in me took over, and since I already had Spyder for my photography work, I got the CalMAN spreadsheet and started working over my XBR2.

Is it time for a tweaks thread, separate from discussion of stands, latest pricing, etc?

I'm still early into this, and I'm feeding test patterns from the VP50 so if that is not clean, all this is invalid. And all of this is specific to my set - reset everything to close to default to start, especially color/hue. Power saver on, Iris on medium.

First, closest to 6500K seems to be Warm 2 with gamma set to low.

Blue is the biggest offender, well high of the gamma curve at the higher IRE levels. (Not at all what I would have thought from the picture...)

Blue gain down -3 helps, got me down to ~6900K, but blue is still high, green is low. Gamma is still ~2.5.

The kicker, of course, is that real pictures (Discovery HD over DirecTV) look somewhat reddish. Could be I need to adjust, could be the meter is wrong, could be the VP50 is doing something, could be something else...

I'm certainly interested in feedback (maybe on a new thread). My condensed results so far, all with Picture 88 and brightness 58:

Warm 2, gamma off, white balance default: ~7100K, pretty flat to 20% IRE, blue very high

Warm 1, gamma off, white balance default: ~9100K, still pretty flat to 20% IRE, blue really high

Warm 2, gamma low, white balance default: ~7200K, pretty flat down to 30% IRE, blue still high

Warm 2, gamma low, white balance -3 blue gain: ~6800K, dip at 20% IRE, blue still somewhat high, red a little high, green a little low. Separation starts lower, around 30% IRE, so maybe bias, rather then gain?

My next guess is drop blue bias a notch, add green bias a notch, see where we are.

Also, I'm off to research, but does ATSC HD still have the 7.5 step up for black IRE? That could throw off the spreadsheet results if that doesn't apply to HD.

eric

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post #1105 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkster View Post

OK, i tried adjusting color all the way to 0. When watching a DVD, I still see the "green glow" in the upper right hand corner and a little along the right side and bottom left corner. The most noticable is when I simply switch inputs and the screen goes black for a few seconds, or if I switch to an input without a feed and see just a black screen.

Toofargone, I will post a picture but my wife has the camera tonight so I can't until she gets home. Of course I'll have to figure out how to attach a photo too!

blinkster: My suggestions:

Don't look at what happens on blank input screens..and when you switch inputs--these results are indeterminate. Instead look at the blackest part of your DVD movies or TV programs -with color still turned off.

Try adjusting your green bias . Turn it down to say -2 or -3 and see what happens. (This is just a quick test --not intended to dial out the problem).

Question..are you sitting to the right side of the screen center? --if so the right side will appear a bit brighter than the left side.

KT
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post #1106 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MRJAZZZ View Post

Just installed a 70" in the dedicated home theater.It isn't the primary display (two different sized large drop down screens, with front projection (SONY PEARL), provide the primary video viewing ). Any way with the new DIRECT TV, receivers (MPEG 4 units), when you change the channel, (on the DIRECT TV )the bright blue banner at the top, which shows what channel is being displayed,and the name of the show, changes in size. IT first shrinks, as if some one was zooming the image in,than reverts back to normal size once the picture locks in. Now I don't mean the entire picture shrinks, just the blue banner/heading at the top of the screen. Very strange phenomena. No other display in my house does this. Any thoughts?

CHEERS, TC

Jazz,

I know exactly what that is (and it drove me nuts too). It's switching through all of the resolutions you've indicated that your TV supports. Why??? I have no idea.
On the HR20, go into the setup menu and then under Display or TV and look at what resolutions you have enabled. If you disable all but one (say 1080i) then you'll see that channel switching is much improved but I believe if you do that then everything will get upscaled by the HR20 as opposed by the Sony (that's just a guess).

Good luck!

Now if I can just figure out how to disable Antenna/Cable when using the TV/Video button. I could do it on my XBR1. I think they lost functionality when they added the TV Guide system in because to disable on the XBR1 you had to go into the Channel Labels (NOT the video input labels) and no such beast exists in the Sony Menus. Maybe it's a service menu option.

Edit: BTW, the service menu code for the A2000 works on the KDS-R60XBR2. Check the A2000 Tweaks thread here, second post down.

-Stu
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post #1107 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 08:57 PM
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Yesterday, I ordered a 70" XBR2 and a Salamander Design stand from a local B&M store. I then read about the rumored $1,000 price drop on the 70 and panicked. I called my retailer this morning who made some calls and he confirmed that the price drop is real and will go into effect on October 20. He gave me an across the board (stand and TV) 15% off list so I am now more pleased as he will put my order in on Friday so it will be 15% off a lower number.

Hope this helps anyone and that I have not violated any rules by posting the above (since I am just confirming the rumor about the official price drop).

Best,

-Luvwine
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post #1108 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

A 24" stand is way too tall. My stand(viewed on the 1st page of this thread) is only 15". I would say a good stand would be between 14" and 18" max, unless you like looking up at your TV or have an extra tall couch.

Hello All,
I have a custom made stand that is 25 inches high for my 60xbr2 and the heighth is perfect. You have to go to the stores and try to duplicate the correct level.

I was really worried about the 25 inched because of what others were saying here.

If you wear bifocals, the 25 inch level is more suited to you not having to put your chin in your chest.

My eyes are at 37 inches on the couch and the recliner. The wife like the height as well.
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post #1109 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 10:39 PM
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I have the 70" XBR2 and I'm trying to decide the best distance to sit from the T.V. For HD Cable and HD-DVD what is the distance that most of you are using with the 70"?

I don't want to sit too far back and miss details in the picture but I don't want to be so close that the brightness of the screen gives me a headache.
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post #1110 of 12055 Old 10-17-2006, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeepBeep6262 View Post

Crutchfield prices for the XBR2's look very good. No tax, free white glove shipping, how do you pass that up? I was actually curious as to which Service Plans people went with and where so I can make some final decisions

Thanks!


I couldn't pass it up. Ordered the 70' today and will get the ext. warranty thru Sony. Can't wait!!
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Reply Rear Projection Units

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