Official Sony XBR2 (60" & 70") Owner's Thread - Page 393 - AVS Forum
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post #11761 of 12055 Old 03-12-2012, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by herck View Post

Sony should just be giving us replacement tvs. we still have to dispose of the plastic box of junk we paid 7000 dollars for.

So you don't consider the ~5 years of use to be worth anything?
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post #11762 of 12055 Old 03-12-2012, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by HomieG View Post

Suppose that your question is posed to me. I guess I could have been more specific in my post. He said he tried with his Auto Iris On or Off. I recommended it not be on auto. There are five (5) other settings that are basically manual iris control. He didn't say which he tried. My recommendation was that he try all of the other 5 non-auto settings.

Question - Rather than putting down other folks replies, do you have a constructive recommendation for the poster who started this sub-thread?

Since he tried it with auto-iris off, then he must have tried it with one of the other five settings. There is no auto-iris off setting aside from selecting one of the 5 fixed iris settings.

Aging or bad bulb is most likely the culprit.

But, I'll retract my "Doubtful" for the power saving mode comment on the prior page, but only because I wasn't aware that there was an Auto setting there. I've always had it set to "On" or "Off". Since the manual is unclear about what "Auto" does, perhaps it is automatically switching from Off to On after the set has warmed up (in gwnelson's case about an hour later). Still doubtful it is responding to room light levels, which is how I read RobbinMerrit's comment, I would imagine a manual would be more explicit about that (and do not recall ever having read about the XBR2's having such a capability), but since the manual does not say one way or the other... Past posts have suggested that bulb flicker can possibly be reduced or eliminated by turning power saving mode off; some have indicated that this did help, some have indicated it didn't make a difference.

So gwnelson, imho it's either some side effect of using the Auto setting for Power Saving mode (try changing it to Off if you haven't aready done so and see if that makes the getting darker after an hour part go away), or your bulb is just getting old and it's doing it on its own for some reason.

If your bulb is in general too dark then you should probably try setting your iris to one of the higher levels (I've always had mine set at "Low", I cannot stand the automatic iris settings) and see if that makes a difference. And if all that makes little/no difference, then there's all those adjustments and settings to play with in the Picture Settings menu (I posted mine not too long ago, basically use Custom picture mode, do a Reset, turn most of the extra stuff off (including the auto iris), stick with the basics (Picture, Brightness, (Color, Hue, Sharpness)), try out the settings I posted a bit ago or adjust with the help of a calibration disc.) If after all that it's still too dark, must be time for a new bulb.
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post #11763 of 12055 Old 03-12-2012, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by barryaz1 View Post

That's why I so wish that Sony had just given me enough cash to get the best Sharp 70", instead of replacing the OB on my 70. But this was still one of those few times that the manufacturer's extended warranty made sense.

Now 3+ days of my new OB being on for about 18 hours/day, and still OK.

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Originally Posted by unixguru View Post

So you don't consider the ~5 years of use to be worth anything?

For me, I love the set right now (and did from the beginning), but I know I'm just living on borrowed time. $5400 (with warranty) for hopefully 7? years, for the pricing at the time, I'm OK with. But I won't be a repeat Sony buyer.
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post #11764 of 12055 Old 03-12-2012, 12:14 PM
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That works out to be about $2.12 per day spending $5400/7/365. In my book that's good for a television!


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Originally Posted by barryaz1 View Post

For me, I love the set right now (and did from the beginning), but I know I'm just living on borrowed time. $5400 (with warranty) for hopefully 7? years, for the pricing at the time, I'm OK with. But I won't be a repeat Sony buyer.

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post #11765 of 12055 Old 03-12-2012, 08:15 PM
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Just thought I wouuld clear up a few things. I have tried all of the iris setting and now have it set to high. Power saving was turned off several months ago.. The set was calibrated by Umer shortly after purchase so I hesitate to reset all fields, Just ordered a replacement bulb for $70. Not a bad price for something I probably need anyway. If all fails does anyone know if repair shops will purchase these sets for replacement parts. I would hate to pay to have it hauled off.
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post #11766 of 12055 Old 03-13-2012, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by gwnelson View Post

Just thought I wouuld clear up a few things. I have tried all of the iris setting and now have it set to high. Power saving was turned off several months ago.. The set was calibrated by Umer shortly after purchase so I hesitate to reset all fields, Just ordered a replacement bulb for $70. Not a bad price for something I probably need anyway. If all fails does anyone know if repair shops will purchase these sets for replacement parts. I would hate to pay to have it hauled off.

GW, can you share where you found a bulb for $70?

Also, thanks for sharing your experience with Sarah K. in Sony's customer relations group. I also worked with her, as well as ServiceNet after getting 2 defective replacement OB's for my 70XBR2 (defective out-of-the-box). As a long-time A/V user of high-end products, these days Sony is more focused on minimizing awareness of their product shortfalls rather than ensuring quality and customer satisfaction.
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post #11767 of 12055 Old 03-13-2012, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post

Since he tried it with auto-iris off, then he must have tried it with one of the other five settings. There is no auto-iris off setting aside from selecting one of the 5 fixed iris settings.

Yep, but at the time I/we made our posts, we didn't know he had tried all five. It was possible that if he tried just one, that either the iris was stuck, or there is a cliff-effect iris setting that would have stabilized its function and opening. Whatever the case may be, it was important to point out to try all five settings, which we now know he did, without improvement. Relax fmalczewski, it's not like other people don't know what they're talking about
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post #11768 of 12055 Old 03-13-2012, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by unixguru View Post

So you don't consider the ~5 years of use to be worth anything?

I have had my tv for 3 and a half years. well from my stand point that amount of time is not worth 7 grand. So if i buy the new 65 inch xbr from sony and pay sony another 2800 dollars they have close to 10.000 dollars of my cash for a tv that is now smaller then my 70 inch tv. so i am now going backwards in size and i am paying extra for it. i am choked about it and sony has lost me for ever its bad business to mess with your loyal customers. sony has not resolved this issue properly as far as i am concerned.

just at analogy but How about if i sold u a new 3000 square foot house and it had electrical problems and u payed my asking price but u found out the house was no good and it needed to be repaired. then i told u i can sell u a smaller house at extra price but u have to repair the first house or just throw it away up to u but if u want to live in a home give me extra cash. To me its like thanks for your money now that i have your money and what i sold u was falling apart to bad for u. would u buy a house from someone like that?.
Sorry for my rant and my spelling lol.
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post #11769 of 12055 Old 03-13-2012, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by herck View Post

I have had my tv for 3 and a half years. well from my stand point that amount of time is not worth 7 grand. So if i buy the new 65 inch xbr from sony and pay sony another 2800 dollars they have close to 10.000 dollars of my cash for a tv that is now smaller then my 70 inch tv. so i am now going backwards in size and i am paying extra for it. i am choked about it and sony has lost me for ever its bad business to mess with your loyal customers. sony has not resolved this issue properly as far as i am concerned.

just at analogy but How about if i sold u a new 3000 square foot house and it had electrical problems and u payed my asking price but u found out the house was no good and it needed to be repaired. then i told u i can sell u a smaller house at extra price but u have to repair the first house or just throw it away up to u but if u want to live in a home give me extra cash. To me its like thanks for your money now that i have your money and what i sold u was falling apart to bad for u. would u buy a house from someone like that?.
Sorry for my rant and my spelling lol.

I understand your frustration. I certainly didn't expect mine to be replaced in 5 years, especially after spending so much. As I calculated in my post, it cost me around $1.75/day for the 70XBR2. Yours didn't last as long and you paid a bit more so it cost you more.

Sony hasn't made any friends with this mess but you have to admit they have done a lot more than they legally had to do and more than many companies would have.

I miss the 5" a bit. But the picture is just plain outstanding - not perfect but for the price pretty darn close. For high-end picture there are only TWO options right now - Sony HX929 series OR (Sharp) Elite. Take a look at the price of a 70" Elite, which isn't perfect either, and you will see that the 65HX929 is a great deal.

A house analogy isn't quite fair as, at least in normal times, a house will maintain or increase in value - warts and all. Electronics are about the worst category for value retention. Think about how fairly you would be treated with an automobile that was a lemon. It would be nice to buy things that lasted a long time. But then they would be so expensive nobody could afford them.

I will soon be buying an extended warranty for my 65HX929 (probably from electronicwarranty.com). A 5 year warranty on $5400 (not what I paid, what it was selling for when I got it) is $310. Adding that amount to what I paid would bring 5 years of use to $1.65 a day. If it dies after 5 years I would consider that very cheap entertainment. Besides, in 5 years the technology will probably have improved as much as it has in the last 5 and I'll be ready for an upgrade anyway.

As upset as you may be with Sony, I don't think you're going to fair any better with any other brand.
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post #11770 of 12055 Old 03-13-2012, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by unixguru View Post

I understand your frustration.

As upset as you may be with Sony, I don't think you're going to fair any better with any other brand.

Just to add some levity to all this, if I win Mega Millions tonight, maybe I'll buy my own movie theater...
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post #11771 of 12055 Old 03-13-2012, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by unixguru View Post


I understand your frustration. I certainly didn't expect mine to be replaced in 5 years, especially after spending so much. As I calculated in my post, it cost me around $1.75/day for the 70XBR2. Yours didn't last as long and you paid a bit more so it cost you more.

Sony hasn't made any friends with this mess but you have to admit they have done a lot more than they legally had to do and more than many companies would have.

I miss the 5" a bit. But the picture is just plain outstanding - not perfect but for the price pretty darn close. For high-end picture there are only TWO options right now - Sony HX929 series OR (Sharp) Elite. Take a look at the price of a 70" Elite, which isn't perfect either, and you will see that the 65HX929 is a great deal.

A house analogy isn't quite fair as, at least in normal times, a house will maintain or increase in value - warts and all. Electronics are about the worst category for value retention. Think about how fairly you would be treated with an automobile that was a lemon. It would be nice to buy things that lasted a long time. But then they would be so expensive nobody could afford them.

I will soon be buying an extended warranty for my 65HX929 (probably from electronicwarranty.com). A 5 year warranty on $5400 (not what I paid, what it was selling for when I got it) is $310. Adding that amount to what I paid would bring 5 years of use to $1.65 a day. If it dies after 5 years I would consider that very cheap entertainment. Besides, in 5 years the technology will probably have improved as much as it has in the last 5 and I'll be ready for an upgrade anyway.

As upset as you may be with Sony, I don't think you're going to fair any better with any other brand.

Totally agree.
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post #11772 of 12055 Old 03-13-2012, 07:18 PM
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...As upset as you may be with Sony, I don't think you're going to fair any better with any other brand.

Every single manufacturer of 3-LCD designs and LCOS designs has had the same problems, -Sony, Hitachi, JVC, Mits, Zenith, Panasonic, RCA and a few more that are long gone. For the most part, Sony has treated the 'victims' better than all those others. That is partly due to the higher population of Sonys that led to a critical mass and a class action, and the great work of Steve Linke, but you also have to credit Sony for at least doing something.
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post #11773 of 12055 Old 03-14-2012, 05:10 AM
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Every single manufacturer of 3-LCD designs and LCOS designs has had the same problems, -Sony, Hitachi, JVC, Mits, Zenith, Panasonic, RCA and a few more that are long gone. For the most part, Sony has treated the 'victims' better than all those others. That is partly due to the higher population of Sonys that led to a critical mass and a class action, and the great work of Steve Linke, but you also have to credit Sony for at least doing something.

Very true. I have a friend who is on his sixth jvc projector due to failing optical blocks. He has also had failed optical blocks from panasonic projectors. I personally think its a weakness of the technology and if I was going projection again would look at dlp.

Edit: One solution would be to use LEDs instead of a hot bulb.
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post #11774 of 12055 Old 03-14-2012, 09:09 AM
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Very true. I have a friend who is on his sixth jvc projector due to failing optical blocks. He has also had failed optical blocks from panasonic projectors. I personally think its a weakness of the technology and if I was going projection again would look at dlp.

Edit: One solution would be to use LEDs instead of a hot bulb.

Agreed. There is probably a way to make them that could survive the heat stress better. One thing would be to move the light source further away from the ob - although that then presents a packaging problem. Even with that, I suppose there is a need to cool the ob as all that light that is "dumped" for black pixels has to go somewhere and turn into heat; it's a bit surprising that the ob (at least on my old Sony) wasn't surrounded by aluminum heatsink fins. Those movie theater projectors must do all of these things since they are much brighter/hotter. As a retired software engineer I can imagine that the engineers knew how to prevent these problems and were overruled by bean-counters. Management never learned lessons in software either. Given Sony TV division financial performance over the last few years one should expect that even they got the message.

LEDs would be a good solution. Given the amount of light that the HX929 puts out I imagine a cluster of LEDs could do the job on a projector. I suspect it is not worth it given the picture quality and other benefits of flat panels - along with dropping manufacturing costs. Probably need to be well over 100" before projection makes sense these days.
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post #11775 of 12055 Old 03-14-2012, 07:07 PM
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Apex Lamps is where I ordered the lamp assembly.. Some sites just sell the lamp,
so be aware. I ordered monday and delivery is tomorrow. Not bad.

https://www.apexlamps.com/index.php?...fo&brand_id=86
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post #11776 of 12055 Old 03-15-2012, 07:25 AM
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[quote=unixguru;21773847] I will soon be buying an extended warranty for my 65HX929 (probably from electronicwarranty.com). A 5 year warranty on $5400 (not what I paid, what it was selling for when I got it) is $310.

Are you concerned that El. Warranty only offers replacement for up to the purchase price amount? Since I paid a discounted price 65HX929 as comp for my 70XBR2, I'm hesitant to go this route given the fun I had dealing w/the XBR2 warranty refund. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks!
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post #11777 of 12055 Old 03-16-2012, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by unixguru View Post

I will soon be buying an extended warranty for my 65HX929 (probably from electronicwarranty.com). A 5 year warranty on $5400 (not what I paid, what it was selling for when I got it) is $310.

Are you concerned that El. Warranty only offers replacement for up to the purchase price amount? Since I paid a discounted price 65HX929 as comp for my 70XBR2, I'm hesitant to go this route given the fun I had dealing w/the XBR2 warranty refund. Your thoughts would be appreciated.

I'm a little concerned. The same concern would apply toward buying extended warranty from Sony - they just pass through to another company.

I asked specifically about this. The exchange program issued me a letter stating the date they replaced, model and serial numbers of old and new, and replacement amount. The agent said to use the current price on Sony store when purchasing ext warranty.

I did a screen grab of the top of the Sony store page where it shows model, price, and estimated ship date (which was a week after my replacement date). I then put this image on the bottom of the letter (I have a PDF editor - could be done with an image processing program or by print & scan). electronicwarranty.com has a way to attach documents to the account so I'll attach that.

Should not be a problem as the premium for the warranty is based on the purchase price - as long as I pay the premium for the purchase price I should be ok... I hope.
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post #11778 of 12055 Old 03-16-2012, 06:59 AM
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I'm a little concerned. The same concern would apply toward buying extended warranty from Sony - they just pass through to another company.

I asked specifically about this. The exchange program issued me a letter stating the date they replaced, model and serial numbers of old and new, and replacement amount. The agent said to use the current price on Sony store when purchasing ext warranty.

I did a screen grab of the top of the Sony store page where it shows model, price, and estimated ship date (which was a week after my replacement date). I then put this image on the bottom of the letter (I have a PDF editor - could be done with an image processing program or by print & scan). electronicwarranty.com has a way to attach documents to the account so I'll attach that.

Should not be a problem as the premium for the warranty is based on the purchase price - as long as I pay the premium for the purchase price I should be ok... I hope.

Thanks UnixGuru! I was about to post what Sony told me yesterday on their Extd. Warranty (ESP). Your approach is quite sound.

When I spoke with Sony Customer Care and several other depts. (e.g., ESP Sales) yesterday, I asked them whether their warranty was for replacement with a comparable TV (Sony website FAQ page says Yes) or only for a max of the price paid (ServiceNet contracts says just the price paid and Sony uses SNet. for their Sony warranty). Each person at Sony said it would only cover up to the price paid even knowing that I received the HX929 at a significant discount as comp for the 70XBR2, which means I'm screwed if the HX929 needs to be replaced like the XBR2 did.

My plan today was to contact Sarah at Sony Listens. Now that I see what you did to minimize the coverage shortfall, I'll try that route. Thanks again!
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post #11779 of 12055 Old 03-16-2012, 01:37 PM
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My plan today was to contact Sarah at Sony Listens. Now that I see what you did to minimize the coverage shortfall, I'll try that route. Thanks again!

Please let us know what she says. One of her staff, that wrote the letter, claimed that I could get it from Sony using the retail price.
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post #11780 of 12055 Old 03-16-2012, 10:21 PM
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This question has been posted before, but I did not feel the answer was real clear. I just replaced the big fan next to the HDMI ports on my 70XBR2 (right behind the lamp) and I do not recall if that fan was supposed to pull air into the TV or exhaust fan from the TV. Would somebody please check? I greatly appreciate the effort

UPDATE: Exhaust is correct, I reconnected the leads to the old fan to figure this out.
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post #11781 of 12055 Old 03-17-2012, 01:00 PM
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Can someone help me with a copy of the service manual .pdf. I found a 70" xbr2 with a broken screen and want to replace it or remove the OB.Thanks
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post #11782 of 12055 Old 03-23-2012, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by yellowbird33
I originally purchased the KDS50XBR1($3500) almost 6 years ago.Six months in the OB went and had it replaced.Two weeks later the same problem developed and I had the set replaced.By this time they no longer made the KDS50XBR1 and replaced it with the KDS60XBR2. I bought the extended warranty ($500 for 5 years).Of course now the set is developing the same problems as its predecessor. I was just wondering if I had any options with Sony at this point since I have gone through two televisions and $4000 in just less than six years and they obviously are plagued with the same problems.

Suggest you read through this thread which explains what Sony has done over time to "accommodate" folks with this exact issue. Their "accommodations" have changed over the past several years. What it comes down this time is that Sony will basically offer you about 40-50% off non-sale retailer pricing (not MSRP) for a new Sony TV. They start with their bottom-of-the line models (not the XBR's which was top-on-the line we had with our KDS's). You can then ask them to price other models fort you if you want to consider other Sony models. Interestingly, almost all the other models I asked for pricing on were not available in this "accommodation" program, which to me says they're cleaning out their bottom-of-the barrel models at our expense.

Interestingly, many of their new TV's have other issues, including top-of-the-line models (read other threads here on avsforum).

Personally, I consider Sony a non-premium brand now. We can get crappy quality from other manufacturers at much lest cost than Sony tries to command today. Suggest you consider other brands such as Sharp, LG, Samsung and Panasonic. You may find an attractive replacement for these worthless KDS's, and perhaps even a TV that will last more than 5-7 years...that's what I did, and also got the satisfaction on making sure Sony had one less sale. Sure, they'll sell that one TV to others, but if we all make it harder for Sony to sell their garbage product, eventually they will correct their deficient quality control, or go out of business. Personally, I hope it is the latter. I decided not to give them one cent more of my hard earned money. In fact, I spent the same for a replacement TV that well exceeded an equivalently prices Sony, but had a much better picture (subjective, of course), and many more features, and for which 3D actually looked good (Sony's 3D sucks and is rated very low by most 3D reviews, across the Sony product line).

A good place to start with Sony, if you're interested in a replacement, is the "I Have A Defective Sony TV" page on Facebook. Good luck with whatever you decide!
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ok.......so I got in touch with Sony and told them about my problems and they offered me $1500 towards the purchase of another Sony TV. Is this a fair deal and if so which TV of theirs should I be looking to replace mine with?
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post #11783 of 12055 Old 03-23-2012, 02:19 PM
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Sony offered me $1500 for my TV. Is this fair ? Should I ask for more? what do I replace it with?
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post #11784 of 12055 Old 03-23-2012, 02:35 PM
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Sony offered me $1500 for my TV. Is this fair ? Should I ask for more? what do I replace it with?

Is your latest Extended Warranty still in effect? If so, read carefully. Mine (Sony's) said, "Repair or Replace." They actually chose to repair to mine and the servicer's surprise. Check my posts of the last month or two.
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post #11785 of 12055 Old 03-23-2012, 04:25 PM
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NO. If the extended warranty is from the original date of purchase it woulds have expired last July. If it was from when the swapped it out then it still would have expired in late January this year
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post #11786 of 12055 Old 03-24-2012, 12:51 PM
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Sony offered me $1500 for my TV. Is this fair ? Should I ask for more? what do I replace it with?

Since you have a 60" they won't discount anything larger so the best you can do is a XBR-55HX929. Sony Style lists it for $2900 so discounted $1500 is 52% discount.

I had a 70XBR2 and got a 65HX929 for a similar % discount as did many others.

The only other comparable picture quality (IMO) are the Elites. I believe a 60" Elite is selling for around $5500. The 65HX929 is $5400. So, in essence, the extra 5-10" would cost you ~$4000! In my own case the differential to go to a 70" Elite was ~$5000. Needless to say I couldn't justify 5 more inches at $1000/inch

In your previous post I think you were unhappy with the life expectancy of previous Sony models. Yes, they did a really bad job with the SXRDs from an endurance standpoint. My HX929 runs really cool. I recently purchased a 5-year extended warranty which was very inexpensive (I attribute that to the low expected failure rate of LED LCD tv). My advise is to calculate cost per day over the lifetime you had and what you expect out of a new one (in my mind that means lifetime covered by extended warranty) and then consider if it is a good value or not. When I do that calc for myself I'm well under $2/day which I feel is an excellent return for a high-quality entertainment experience. Going forward I'm just planning on replacing every 5 years as the picture quality advances significantly in that amount of time.
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post #11787 of 12055 Old 03-25-2012, 09:47 AM
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Well, after many years of good service from my 60" XBR2 SXRD set, I finally started to get the green haze. First noticed it when I couldn't calibrate the color on my Mac Mini correctly. Then I went to the login screen in OS X Lion and saw just how bad the green had become. Checking with Sarah Kepler via FaceBook to see what kind of discounts are available now. Will keep you all posted.
LL

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post #11788 of 12055 Old 03-25-2012, 03:45 PM
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Well, after many years of good service from my 60" XBR2 SXRD set, I finally started to get the green haze. First noticed it when I couldn't calibrate the color on my Mac Mini correctly. Then I went to the login screen in OS X Lion and saw just how bad the green had become. Checking with Sarah Kepler via FaceBook to see what kind of discounts are available now. Will keep you all posted.

They're going to offer you a 55"' at $575 or $675. And a 60" at $1375 or $1475. Both are bottom-of-the-line models, unlike that SXRD when you bought it. They will offer discounts on some other models if you send them what you are interested in.

Look at some replacements from other manufacturers too. Even with the Sony discount and so-called accommodation, there's not great value in purchasing their inferior products. They're very overpriced when compared to their competitors. Check out LG and Sharp, and check out their repair history as well. I think you'll be surprised at the differences.
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post #11789 of 12055 Old 03-28-2012, 05:27 AM
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Please let us know what she says. One of her staff, that wrote the letter, claimed that I could get it from Sony using the retail price.

On an extended warranty (ESP) for the 65HX929 that was a discounted replacement for my 70XBR2, I also ended up going with El.Warranty.com. After getting transferred to 3 Sony departments (Warranty, Customer Care & Sony Listens) and then transferred back around to each also (ugh) and each of them saying another dept. would know if a Sony ESP would include a comparable replacement vs. just the price paid, it became obvious there was not a consensus and I should just assume the worst case scenario. Also, Sarah never responded to my message & Pat said to contact the Warranty dept. (I'm not doing that again). Too bad...I really tried to give Sony an opportunity to sell an ESP.
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post #11790 of 12055 Old 03-28-2012, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by HomieG View Post


They're going to offer you a 55"' at $575 or $675. And a 60" at $1375 or $1475. Both are bottom-of-the-line models, unlike that SXRD when you bought it. They will offer discounts on some other models if you send them what you are interested in.

Look at some replacements from other manufacturers too. Even with the Sony discount and so-called accommodation, there's not great value in purchasing their inferior products. They're very overpriced when compared to their competitors. Check out LG and Sharp, and check out their repair history as well. I think you'll be surprised at the differences.

Hi Homie,

I decided to skip the discounted replacement units and purchase a Panasonic VT30 65" plasma set. Should be delivered today.

Jeff Kirk, CGFE*

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