Official Sony XBR2 (60" & 70") Owner's Thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 12055 Old 10-02-2006, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

Here is another couple of possible explanations:

1. The Sony manual on page 77 state the resolution choices at the highest levels include 1280/1024 and 1920x1080.
It does not state it can support 1680x 1050.

2. The highest resolution input of 1920/1080 requires the H sync =67.5kHz and V=68 Hz.
Perhaps your Dell is not set to output these sync frequencies and so the XBR2 will not accept your Hi Res signal.

KT

Question - why does the sony manual say that a 1920 X 1080 pc output will NOT fill the entire screen?
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post #152 of 12055 Old 10-02-2006, 07:33 PM
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one more question - if using the hdmi port for a pc leads to overscan, what would be different about the playsation 3 that would have it output 1:1 via hdmi?
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post #153 of 12055 Old 10-02-2006, 07:45 PM
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I have only seen pixelation on SD Sat. images and it was not too bad except on some awful local channel SD feeds for football that would look bad on anything.

I also saw a few flashes?/pixelation on quick sideline pans...but again, this is SD. After playing around with the settings, SD Tivo studio network shows are looking good. We almost need a section on best SD settings.

On hi-def (which for some reason I am increasingly drawn to!)
I have not seen it. OTA HD football was rock solid.

FWIW I looked at stands for a few days too and needed one quick (I tried to help someone out on another thread on this). I like how the set sits at a bit over 15 inches high on a Techcraft DLP 58X stand, I would not want it much higher. This put it slightly higher than my old Pioneer Elite. I don't need the stand length as it is not going to be visible and it is spec'd to more than hold the weight of the 70. I just need it to support the TV so how it looked was not a factor. The TV base just slightly overlaps the stand however but it is not going anywhere..

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post #154 of 12055 Old 10-02-2006, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I think a pretty good, inexpensive stand, is the Techcraft PTV72. I think it sits about the right height, unless you have a pretty tall couch ! You definitely don't want a stand taller than about 17" for a 70" set.

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post #155 of 12055 Old 10-02-2006, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rillson View Post

The maximum "standalone" resolution of the Dell M65 widescreen laptop is 1680x1050.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

Here is another couple of possible explanations:

1. The Sony manual on page 77 state the resolution choices at the highest levels include 1280/1024 and 1920x1080.
It does not state it can support 1680x 1050.

2. The highest resolution input of 1920/1080 requires the H sync =67.5kHz and V=68 Hz.
Perhaps your Dell is not set to output these sync frequencies and so the XBR2 will not accept your Hi Res signal.

KT

This does sound like rillson's laptop is not capable of the 1920x1080 resolution that the sony TV is looking for. It's not uncommon for a laptop not to support some of the higher-bandwidth resolutions that desktop computers usually support. This is part of the tradoff that enables the laptop to conform to a tighter power and heat budget.
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post #156 of 12055 Old 10-02-2006, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

Here is another couple of possible explanations:

1. The Sony manual on page 77 state the resolution choices at the highest levels include 1280/1024 and 1920x1080.
It does not state it can support 1680x 1050.

2. The highest resolution input of 1920/1080 requires the H sync =67.5kHz and V=68 Hz.
Perhaps your Dell is not set to output these sync frequencies and so the XBR2 will not accept your Hi Res signal. KT

It makes sense that they drop down to the highest level they both will support. I anticipated that the xbr2 would upscale to the hdtv resolution and fill one dimension in one of the full modes.

1650x1050 is a (to me) strange resolution which I hadn't seen before but this is the 1st widescreen PC I've used, and I hadn't given it much thought.

1920x1080 is also an unusual resolution in the PC world but I wouldn't be surprised if it's supported by video cards designed for "media center" PCs.

HDTV5.1's question below is pretty intriguing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV5.1 View Post

Question - why does the sony manual say that a 1920 X 1080 pc output will NOT fill the entire screen?

Obviously, I haven't a clue. Completely different processing is probably required for the vga signal. However that's kind of a self evident comment which doesn't answer the question.

But now that KT points out the comment in the manual, I am pleased that the set does what the manual says it will. Always a good feature when the behavior corresponds to the documentation though imho.
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post #157 of 12055 Old 10-02-2006, 09:39 PM
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I absolutely agree with 17" maximum height comment. The PTV72 is a good looking stand. I just wish they had used two center supports to create 3 equipment bays. That way the center speaker could go down there.

I went out and got one of the Omnimount CCH1 shelves but once I had it in my hands I wasn't at all comfortable using it with the weight of my center speaker.

I was hoping to eliminate my equipment cabinet. But combine the requirements of:

<17" high which is an absolute requirement
64" to 70" wide to balance the set w/o speakers;
18" deep (for my AVR);
A bay for the center speaker;
>9" of internal height to maybe stack 3 short components;
A back panel to hide cords;

And did I mention I wanted it in black?

I've looked at BDI, Bello, Plateau, Sanus, Studio Craft, Techcraft, Tema, and some others who didn't make it on the list.

StudioCraft has some beautiful cabinets but they're all too high. Plateau comes closest with the CR-2V but I wish it were more enclosed.

If anybody has any other ideas please let me know. Otherwise I think there may well be a silver Sony stand in my future. I'm very interested in how the xbr1 stand mods work out as the 74" of the new stands seems way too big for the 70XBR2 w/o speakers.
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post #158 of 12055 Old 10-02-2006, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV5.1 View Post

Question - why does the sony manual say that a 1920 X 1080 pc output will NOT fill the entire screen?


This is just a guess. PC monitors always underscan so that absolutely nothing is missing. Photoshop--desktop publishers-- etc, could not tolerate missing say 4% of the image at the top and bottom of their monitors. Sony is therefore not filling the screen.

To do this they must be scaling the image down in size. If this is so, there may be some scaling artifacts visible from time to time. On the XBR1 the PC input underscans and wastes a large amount of screen space. I do not how to overcome the problem and, in any case, Sony states in their XBR1 Manual that the PC input will not fill the screen.

A PC expert could probably provide a more correct explanation.

KT
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post #159 of 12055 Old 10-02-2006, 10:40 PM
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Mr. Foo said...
Quote:


I have implemented the settings provided above (thanks).

I have sampled a few HD-DVDs and SD-DVDs and was generally impressed with what I saw, and did catch myself saying wow a few times - not sure yet if it was totally worthwhile spending the extra $3k. Satellite SD and HD definately looked improved over the A2000, but I don't put much into this until I get an MPEG-4 based sat receiver. I watched a little college football tonight and it seemed to perform much better regarding motion blur. I will know more after sitting and watching NFL all day tomorrow on Sunday ticket.

Anyway, objective tests are probably of more value to you all and I did find something shocking when I went to re-run the Vertrez tests that had run previously with the A2000 (details here). I was interested in finding how well it did motion adaptive interlacing using Vertrez Motion test. What shocked me here was the top block of lines in this and in the Vertrez (non-motion) test were blinking collectively (please refer to picture from previous test in above link - reference the word HERE in the pic to see what I am talking about).

Does this mean that the set is not doing a proper weave deinterlace when the A2000 showed that it was (all lines within this block were distinct).

I find this very disturbing unless I am misinterpreting something. Up until I ran this test I was convinced (albeit subjectively) that the XBR2 was a definate upgrade over the A2000. So, how can this test fail?

EDIT: apparently the above test behavior depends on the DRC mode. I had had it set to mode 1 per the prior recommendations. I just tried it with DRC off and got the same results as with the A2000. Also, with the DRC mode off, the Vertrez motion test results appeared similar to the A2000 - so it is doing region based adapting instead of per pixel (which I remember reading here before that someone claimed the XBR1 could do - probably not though).

Based on the results of Foo's vertical resolution tests, it sounds like the XBR2 with DRC2.5 offers no improvement for 1080i signals over the A2000 series. Deinterlace performance was one of the key factors limiting the high-definition PQ of the A2000 (after calibration), so it is very unfortunate that the XBR2 does not offer any improvement in this area.

Has anyone been able to qualify the improvements offered by DRC2.5 at all?

From what has been repoted so far, it sounds like the XBR2 improves upon the color uniformity of the A2000, but beyond that, the extra $1000 only buys you extra picture settings and built-in tuners / PIP. I am disappointed.
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post #160 of 12055 Old 10-02-2006, 10:58 PM
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Eh, doesn't sound like I'm missing anything except the 70" part so far.

Not that it's not appealing, it's just not having any issues with my 60XBR1 means I will probably be able to hold. Time will tell. I can just imagine the glory of a 70XBR1. :sigh:

The 70" looks beautiful, though. I would definitely be keeping the speakers on, though. I like that crystal LED part like Sony's late and largely unlamented PDP's. Almost as neat as the glowing logo on the Q006.

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post #161 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Mr. Foo said...
Based on the results of Foo's vertical resolution tests, it sounds like the XBR2 with DRC2.5 offers no improvement for 1080i signals over the A2000 series. Deinterlace performance was one of the key factors limiting the high-definition PQ of the A2000 (after calibration), so it is very unfortunate that the XBR2 does not offer any improvement in this area.

Has anyone been able to qualify the improvements offered by DRC2.5 at all?

From what has been repoted so far, it sounds like the XBR2 improves upon the color uniformity of the A2000, but beyond that, the extra $1000 only buys you extra picture settings and built-in tuners / PIP. I am disappointed.

But the XBR2 does provide improvements in HD picture quality over the a2000. It allows the use of the DRC for HD sources, both 720p and 1080i. By careful application of the DRC palette high quality HD shows should show the same sharpness improvements seen with the XBR1 and the $10,000 Ruby front projector. This has to be proven by an owner, but there is no reason to believe at this time that the XBR2 went back 2 steps in performance.
And in my opinion, the significance of Mr Foo's deinterlacing test has not yet been established.
Stay tuned

KT
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post #162 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

This is just a guess. PC monitors always underscan so that absolutely nothing is missing. Photoshop--desktop publishers-- etc, could not tolerate missing say 4% of the image at the top and bottom of their monitors. Sony is therefore not filling the screen.

To do this they must be scaling the image down in size. If this is so, there may be some scaling artifacts visible from time to time. On the XBR1 the PC input underscans and wastes a large amount of screen space. I do not how to overcome the problem and, in any case, Sony states in their XBR1 Manual that the PC input will not fill the screen.

A PC expert could probably provide a more correct explanation.

KT

I would say that you hit it right on the head.
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post #163 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AikenGhoti View Post

My Pioneer 510HD is a 53" RPTV, so you probably had one of the 5x0HD models as well. If you're happy with the XBR2 picture, that bodes well. Even for several years after I got it, I saw no sets with a picture better than the 510's, so a close or better competitor will probably suit me just fine. I'm a little less worried now.

Just curious on what you plan on doing with your 510 if you get the XBR2. I have a 610, but no one I know is interested in a 6 year old 300 pound CRT based set.
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post #164 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rillson View Post

I absolutely agree with 17" maximum height comment. The PTV72 is a good looking stand. I just wish they had used two center supports to create 3 equipment bays. That way the center speaker could go down there.

I went out and got one of the Omnimount CCH1 shelves but once I had it in my hands I wasn't at all comfortable using it with the weight of my center speaker.

I was hoping to eliminate my equipment cabinet. But combine the requirements of:

<17" high which is an absolute requirement
64" to 70" wide to balance the set w/o speakers;
18" deep (for my AVR);
A bay for the center speaker;
>9" of internal height to maybe stack 3 short components;
A back panel to hide cords;

And did I mention I wanted it in black?

I've looked at BDI, Bello, Plateau, Sanus, Studio Craft, Techcraft, Tema, and some others who didn't make it on the list.

StudioCraft has some beautiful cabinets but they're all too high. Plateau comes closest with the CR-2V but I wish it were more enclosed.

If anybody has any other ideas please let me know. Otherwise I think there may well be a silver Sony stand in my future. I'm very interested in how the xbr1 stand mods work out as the 74" of the new stands seems way too big for the 70XBR2 w/o speakers.


I am with you. I have a 35 pound center channel so the Omnimount is out. I am looking for a 8 to 9 inch high center channel stand because the shelf on the 15 inch high stand is to close to the floor. I want a TV stand that is only 68"wide (70 without speakers) and 15" high with casters. I spent enough time drooling while sitting in front of a Qualia, on a Sony stand, to know that the 15 inch height is almost ideal.
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post #165 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 05:51 AM
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so i'm getting the feeling people are dissappointed by the new XBR2 strictly based on the fact its not a huge improvemnt over the A2000? I mean, are the people that didn't buy the A2000 since they were waiting for the XBR2, going to buy? or are they considering other options?

More user feedback!!!!! lol.

What's your choice today?
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post #166 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 07:01 AM
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Has anyone found any wooden stands they plan on using the the XBR2? Gray or black's not gonna fly...
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post #167 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 07:02 AM
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I agree. I haven't seen many posts at all saying how wonderful or amazing the television is. Seems like most people are "ho hum" about it. For $7k I would have expected some draw dropping remarks.
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post #168 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAGATAYA View Post

I just got back from looking at another 60XBR2 at ABC. I tested a B&W DVD of the Three Stooges via component Video 5. I was surprised at how good it looked. Quite sharp and looked excellent in B&W. I did not have to play around with the color at all. There was no evidence of anything like you described. You may want to try a different DVD player.

I am expecting the Toshiba A1 on Thursday. I'll report back. I also now suspect the DVD player.
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post #169 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupraLB View Post

I agree. I haven't seen many posts at all saying how wonderful or amazing the television is. Seems like most people are "ho hum" about it. For $7k I would have expected some draw dropping remarks.

I was wondering this as well, but at the same time many of the members buying it are videophiles, and a much more critical, and don't give ooohs and aaahs the average buyer would.
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post #170 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preludejtstyle View Post

so i'm getting the feeling people are dissappointed by the new XBR2 strictly based on the fact its not a huge improvemnt over the A2000? I mean, are the people that didn't buy the A2000 since they were waiting for the XBR2, going to buy? or are they considering other options?

More user feedback!!!!! lol.

Yeah, this is what I posted a few pages back preludejtstyle. I am interest in these two models and the mits 831. I don't use cablecard, etc. So I am more interested in the other improvements.
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post #171 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 07:18 AM
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KTTV Images's Suggested XBR2 setup control settings to maximize picture Quality:

Since this thread is the official XBR2 owners thread I thought it may be helpful to post here a Link to my suggested control settings starting point for those that could use some help in maximizing the performance of their XBR2. (To avoid confusion I have eliminated the original and now outdated version on this site).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...40#post8742640
Post #4

EDITED 10-28-06; Eliminated the original post and replaced it with the above Link to my most recent post - located and maintained on the "Owners Only thread >>> 60"/70" XBR2<<< Settings/Tweeks", Post #4

KT
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post #172 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupraLB View Post

I agree. I haven't seen many posts at all saying how wonderful or amazing the television is. Seems like most people are "ho hum" about it. For $7k I would have expected some draw dropping remarks.

I'm dying here ( I posted a seperate thread about this....) I have until this afternoon to swap out my JVC 70" FH97 (it is exhibiting a darkened lower left corner and darker strip along the bottom edge of the picture); the effective upgrade cost will be about $1,000 once I factor in the value of the additional bulb you get with the Sony...I don't mind spending the money, but only if there is a value for that expenditure.

The short history: the FH 97 was a swap for a four month old FH96 that had three repairs/two light engines for a smudge issue that was never fixed and never cleared on its own. With the JVC showing this subtle darkening right out of the box, I'm loathe to go another repair route, or to even stay with JVC...

I hope a lot of people get the 70 XBR2 in the next five hours and post LOTS of info...

Thanks
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post #173 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlefoot View Post

I was wondering this as well, but at the same time many of the members buying it are videophiles, and a much more critical, and don't give ooohs and aaahs the average buyer would.

Well, I played with a 70" in the store yesterday for a couple of hours (helped them unbox it), and even out of the box, I think its the best HD picture I've seen short of >$100k front projection set ups at shows. DiscoveryHD had a great 3D picture on it, shadow detail was very strong, and of course, resolution is very very good.

There is some SSE if you are ridiculously close (4-5'), and there is some off axis fade, particularly vertically, but at 10' the sweet spot is easily big enough.

Also, out of the box, its set to vivid mode, and sharpening and noise reduction are jacked up, so some initial tweaking is definitely needed.

All the scaling/deinterlacing issues are less a concern for me (although it was doing fine on the 1080i->1080p for DiscoveryHD) because I have an external scaler (DVDO VP50) which should easily outperform DRC.

Yes, I also saw the slight inward bowing on 4:3 material. I don't know if it can be tweaked out. But I'm seeing reports of this on every large RPTV, and certainly have seen it on others I've looked at.

Is the set perfect? No. What's the bottom line? Mine's being delivered in the next day or two.

One other possible explanation for the lower rate of raves so far is that there is a tremendous amount of settings that can be adjusted just in the user settings (without going into service mode), per input. (For instance, complete independent gain control on R, G, and B.) So its going to take a while to play with the set to optimize the set for your environment. And if you're like me, you have to tweak something, then actually watch it for awhile to decide if that was a good tweak or a bad tweak, not just try the setting, look at the picture, and walk on to the next one.

In my case, add in the complexity of configuring the external scaler as well, and I see weeks of tweaking ahead. (Should drive my wife crazy...)

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post #174 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 08:22 AM
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Eric Bergan
I am seriously considering the 70" and have a Lumagen HDP. Any idea if we can obtain 1 to 1 pixel mapping on the set. If so, any info on the timings setting needed. Thanks
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post #175 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupraLB View Post

I agree. I haven't seen many posts at all saying how wonderful or amazing the television is. Seems like most people are "ho hum" about it. For $7k I would have expected some draw dropping remarks.

Jaw dropping?
I am waiting to see how good the XBR2 is since my XBR1 has been called back by Sony (2nd bad light Engine) to be replaced by an XBR2. I like this turn of events because I expect the XBR2 to be a significant improvement --primarily because of the inclusion of a new light Engine redesign.

But what should we expect from the XBR2? Certainly not the great jaw drooping improvement in picture quality you express.

The expectations I think most of the followers of these forums are looking for is:
1. Correction of the Green blob problem many of have experienced. And no appearance of this problem months after the set has been put into use.
2. The correction of Color Non-uniformity in flat gray fields.
3. Freedom from future yellow stain problems that develop after several months of use.

Since the original 70 inch SXRD 006 and the recent Ruby front projector are free of these problems I expect the new XBR2 to benefit from the field failures well documented in the XBR1 (and apparently the recent a2000) users forums with the development and introduction of a new Light Engine for the XBR2 line --common to the 60 and 70 inch sets.

In addition I would like to see better handling of SD signals-hence the interest in the new v2.5 DRC chip and the new Mode 2 for 1080i SD images.

And finally compared to the a2000 I would like to see sharper images. Note that I do not expect and am not looking for any improvement in sharpness with HD images relative to the XBR1, because of the XBR1 's already excellent performance.

Finally what do you get for your $7,000 ..Well I think you may have missed these:
- you get a 70 inch SXRD
-with removable ears.
- with 1080p input
...a value that should be compared to the original outstanding 006 which cost $13000.

And dont forget the same potential improvements -come in the 60 inch screen size for less than $1000 more than the a2000.

So, these are things I am looking for for in the reports by the lucky first owners. Not jaw dropping remarks.

KT
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post #176 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 08:30 AM
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Eric Bergan
I am seriously considering the 70" and have a Lumagen HDP. Any idea if we can obtain 1 to 1 pixel mapping on the set. If so, any info on the timings setting needed. Thanks

Haven't played with it yet, so don't know from personal experience.

In theory, I think so, but I haven't seen anyone say they have done it yet. Certainly one of the early things I'm going to play with once mine is delivered.

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post #177 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 08:39 AM
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Mr. Foo said...
Based on the results of Foo's vertical resolution tests, it sounds like the XBR2 with DRC2.5 offers no improvement for 1080i signals over the A2000 series. Deinterlace performance was one of the key factors limiting the high-definition PQ of the A2000 (after calibration), so it is very unfortunate that the XBR2 does not offer any improvement in this area.

Has anyone been able to qualify the improvements offered by DRC2.5 at all?

From what has been repoted so far, it sounds like the XBR2 improves upon the color uniformity of the A2000, but beyond that, the extra $1000 only buys you extra picture settings and built-in tuners / PIP. I am disappointed.

I still need to do further due diligence on the meaning of these test results vs. use of the different DRC modes (still need to play with the palette settings, per KTTV's prior suggestion, but the wife wanted to watch a movie last night instead of me playing with test patterns).

However, to respond subjectively on the above comment regarding lack of improvement of 1080i sources over the A2000, I will say that I watched the Training Day HD-DVD again last night (DRC mode 1 setting) and was absolutely stunned by what I saw.

Due to the film's reference quality transfer and the fact that I really enjoy this film, I have watched this title the most out of all in my quickly growing collection and, as a result, was very familiar with what the A2000 was able to do with this particular HD-DVD. When I watched it again on the XBR2 last night, I was truly stunned by the improvement in detail. For example, one of the things that really jumped out at me was the detail that I saw the character's facial features (pores, etc). I basically noticed a ton of things that didn't strike me at all when I viewed the HD-DVD on the A2000.

Take these subjective comments for what their worth to you, but this definately left me feeling much better about the upgrade and I really look forward to what this thing can do after I get it professionally calibrated.
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post #178 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 08:45 AM
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Has anyone been able to compare side by side the Q 006 to the 70" XBR2? I ask because i can get a floor model Q 006 for 6K, maybe less if I wait longer. Im curious which would be a better TV.

Thnks,
MI
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post #179 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 08:47 AM
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I was wondering this as well, but at the same time many of the members buying it are videophiles, and a much more critical, and don't give ooohs and aaahs the average buyer would.

Actually, when I was at the SonyStyle Store, a young couple sat down next to me and took a look at the 70XBR2 and then walked over to the 60XBR1 next to it. The girl mentioned to her bf/hubby that the picture on the 60 looked better...which quite honestly, it did.

I just think that when you've got a tv that big...it is inevitable to lose some PQ when compared to similar models in smaller sizes. I mean, before the 60XBR1 came up with all their green glob issues, people were raving about the PQ. I mean for goodness sakes, didn't it win all kinds of awards?

I had just figured that for 1080p, DRC 2.5, etc...the set was going to look absolutely incredible. In some cases...it does....but you have to give the sucker an absolute pristine Blu-Ray source or a very clean, strong HD signal. Anything less will show flaws and noise, IMO more strongly and more glaringly than models like the XBR1. I do admit, however, that I did not do all the DRC tweaking, etc, that was recommended here. If there was an XBR2 within 80 miles of where I live, I'd try it out again. For now, I am going to have to patiently wait, unfortunately. I don't feel like making another day trip to see the set.

However, there is no question....for some people, just the sheer size of the thing and the fact that it is HD and can produce a decent image...that will probably be enough for the average consumer to gobble it up.
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post #180 of 12055 Old 10-03-2006, 08:57 AM
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Well, I have seen several comments here about screen reflectivity of the Qualia's (too much) and there have already been comments about the XBR2's working really well in highly lit rooms (not an issue for me because mine is in the basement).

If you plan on using in a room with a lot of sunlight, you might want to consider the XBR2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MI_CT View Post

Has anyone been able to compare side by side the Q 006 to the 70" XBR2? I ask because i can get a floor model Q 006 for 6K, maybe less if I wait longer. Im curious which would be a better TV.

Thnks,
MI

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