Official Sony XBR2 (60" & 70") Owner's Thread - Page 74 - AVS Forum
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post #2191 of 12065 Old 11-07-2006, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by paddlefoot View Post

Dang!! I don't know how you pulled that off. Might have to try it. I have beginning off December down as my purchasing time frame. I am guessing it was at least an authorized dealer that they matched?

Sorry for the ignorance but what is PM?
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post #2192 of 12065 Old 11-07-2006, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post

Rowdy, here's a second opinion. This set seems to display what looks like blurry pixels to me. One shouldn't see pixels at all. I'd recommend you buy something else. You want to see what a picture should look like, check out a Pioneer 50" 1080p plasma. I'd suggest checking out a 73" Mitsubishi CRT-RPTV like I have but finding one on display, that is also calibrated, would be very hard to do. I'm watching from a 622, the picture looks like film.

I was going to try and post on the 73" Mitsubishi CRT-RPTV thread but I think that thread died 3 or 4 years ago.

Also, regarding the 50" Pioneer I also think it is a good idea to spend approx $7k on a TV you have to sit 6' from to realize its full benefit.
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post #2193 of 12065 Old 11-07-2006, 11:22 PM
 
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Got my 70 XBR2...

Got it at Tweeter tonight for a GREAT deal under MSRP. I didn't think Tweeter would play as low as they did...
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post #2194 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris in SD View Post

Got my 70 XBR2...

Got it at Tweeter tonight for a GREAT deal under MSRP. I didn't think Tweeter would play as low as they did...]

I would appreciate a PM regarding the price. I am just about to get a good deal from either Tweeter or Pacific Sales. Thanks.
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post #2195 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post

Rowdy, here's a second opinion. This set seems to display what looks like blurry pixels to me. One shouldn't see pixels at all. I'd recommend you buy something else. You want to see what a picture should look like, check out a Pioneer 50" 1080p plasma. I'd suggest checking out a 73" Mitsubishi CRT-RPTV like I have but finding one on display, that is also calibrated, would be very hard to do. I'm watching from a 622, the picture looks like film.

Deinterlacing question in defense of the XBR2:

Since your Mitsubishi 73 inch is a CRT I would guess it does have 9 inch CRT's..is that correct? If so, you would indeed be able to reproduce the full resolution of 1080p --but only if your Mitsubish can sweep at twice the 1080i rate and has a deinterlacer capable of outputting 1080p from 1080i sources. Does your 73 inch sweep at twice the 1080i rate so that it can display true 1080p as can the XBR2?

Without such a deinterlacer --such as a late version Faroudja DCDI 1080p processor - you will be losing half the Vertical resolution on anything moving and you would have interlacing jaggies on diagonals and flicker on horizontal objects, like buildings and steps, for any Video HD source such as Conan or Leno. (Note: I have seen a number of forum posters who incorrectly believe a CRT RP does not need deinterlacing when fed 1080i signals -- film or video. They somehow believe that CRT's inherently eliminate the need for deinterllacing--which if it were true would have put Faroudja out of business years ago)

If you are feeding film from a 1080i HD source such as HDNetMovies you would still need an inverse telecine processor operating at 1080p to feed the Mitsubishi or you will lose half the vertical resolution of all film sources.

I presume your set and processing meets these all of these requirements and then you should indeed have the excellent film experience you describe--and with the gold standard for Blacks - to boot.

If not consider the 70 inch XBR2. It will do all of this and do it with a much higher Contrast Ratio than any CRT RP (but -- yes the blacks are better on the CRT ). To my eye film looks fabulous on the XBR2 and with a much brighter image than the typical local Cinema - a direction the Ronco Home theater 2.35 Scope people are currently heading (see the last 2 issues of Widescreen).

I hope this makes sense.

KT
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post #2196 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRichardson View Post

I would appreciate a PM regarding the price. I am just about to get a good deal from either Tweeter or Pacific Sales. Thanks.

Same here -- Getting ready to pull the trigger and want to see which store has the best deal.... Has anyone dealt with Wilshire Home Entertainment in T.O.?

Stephen
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post #2197 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by PimpDadd View Post

Same here -- Getting ready to pull the trigger and want to see which store has the best deal.... Has anyone dealt with Wilshire Home Entertainment in T.O.?

Me too. Looking for a deal on the 60XBR2. I'm in Orange County. Saw it at Fry's today and the tag on the set had a price $500 lower than MSRP. Not bad, but I'm hoping for better. A 30-day return/refund policy and free delivery are important too.
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post #2198 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 07:20 AM
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Want to purchase a xbr2 70". the best price I can get from sony online is $5600. A local merchant, not an authorized dealer, price is $4800 with a 3 year warrenty. The Sony rep. said if I purchase from an unauthorized dealer I cold be getting a grey market tv or not one made for the USA. Should I believe the Sony rep?
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post #2199 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert hughes View Post

Want to purchase a xbr2 70". the best price I can get from sony online is $5600. A local merchant, not an authorized dealer, price is $4800 with a 3 year warrenty. The Sony rep. said if I purchase from an unauthorized dealer I cold be getting a grey market tv or not one made for the USA. Should I believe the Sony rep?

Sony wants your money (especially if you can give them more money just to say you bought it from them). Others have inquired about authorized dealers and have gotten very vague responses. I would do some research to see if the retailer is reputable but this early in the game it would seem very unlikely to find refurbs around anywhere.

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post #2200 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 07:43 AM
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I looked through the first few pages in the thread, but didn't find anyone talking about which model of HDMI the XBR2 uses.

I've heard it has 1.3, but a few people have said otherwise. I would do the Sony live chat to ask, but I really don't trust them on questions like this. They could just you what you want to hear.
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post #2201 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GQman2121 View Post

I looked through the first few pages in the thread, but didn't find anyone talking about which model of HDMI the XBR2 uses.

I've heard it has 1.3, but a few people have said otherwise. I would do the Sony live chat to ask, but I really don't trust them on questions like this. They could just you what you want to hear.

The XBR2 has HDMI 1.2a hope that helps

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post #2202 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedEstes View Post

The TV Guide information is carried by your local PBS station. If that station is on VHF, you won't be getting the signal.

--Ted

OK, got it. Would it make any difference if deleted the analog UHF PBS signal and was only getting the digital signals (in setup I didn't think I needed the analog signal as well).

Thanks.
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post #2203 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by theguy View Post

Sorry for the ignorance but what is PM?

Either Price Match or Private Message

In this case I would like to receive a private message on how someone was able to get tweeter to PM a store, I would prefer the 60" due to my distance limitations
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post #2204 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddlefoot View Post

Either Price Match or Private Message

In this case I would like to receive a private message on how someone was able to get tweeter to PM a store, I would prefer the 60" due to my distance limitations

Me to, but I'd willing to switch my space around to make room for it if I could get a deal. Plus the 70" has the detactable speakers which makes it look way nicer.
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post #2205 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 09:24 AM
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I just purchased the XBR2 and looking at calibration. Has anyone had their 60 XBR 2 calibrated and can say they have seen a difference in picture quality after the calibration.

Charlie don't surf
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post #2206 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robocop2 View Post

The XBR2 has HDMI 1.2a hope that helps


I went ahead and did the chat and here's what the rep said.

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post #2207 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 09:53 AM
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lol anything for a sale.
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post #2208 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 09:55 AM
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So is he lying or just doesn't know the answer and plays it safe by saying 1.3?

I asked if it supported 1.1 or 1.2 purposely just to see if he would come back with 1.3.
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post #2209 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 10:02 AM
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Anyone want to take bets that my new 70xbr2 doesn't have HDMI 1.3? How about my new set against the cheapest dvd player you own? Damn!!! It would be nice if you could hold them to that. I think the specs were finalized about two weeks before Sony started making them. That would be a fast ramp up. Also, and this is from memory, 1.3 has a smaller connector than 1.2.
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post #2210 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GQman2121 View Post

So is he lying or just doesn't know the answer and plays it safe by saying 1.3?

I asked if it supported 1.1 or 1.2 purposely just to see if he would come back with 1.3.

Likely the response is due to pure ignorance. Definitely wouldn't be a first for a Sony rep.

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post #2211 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 10:29 AM
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Fellows,

Just wanted to let you all know that I will be joining the XBR2 club in moments (the wait is killing me ). My replacement 70" is on the truck for delivery to my humble abode.

Since morning I have been prepping my staging area to make room for the big brother to my now retiring 60XBR1. Just simulating the screen size in my living room is giving me goose bumps since my viewing distance is a mere 11' - talk about an immersive experience.

I will be posting pictures when it's all set up.

For those who have been following my saga on the 60XBR1 discoloration, Sony finally agreed to budge from their $2500 upgrade demand and we came to an agreement I could not refuse .

Based on my experience, all I can recommend is to pursue your case diligently with Sony and escalate if nothing gets done. Thanks to a lot of folks here, I made my case to the higher up's and was able to get what I needed.

I was very initimately familiar with the 60XBR1's Service Menus. Has anybody here ventured into exploring what is different in the SM for the XBR2's???

I'd also appreciate if someone can loan me their copy of the SM - just like I did with my XBR1 SM .

More later..........
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post #2212 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

I still feel the problem you describe is unusual.

Some of your observations indicate that something somewhere in your system is wrong, and I think to sort it out you need to take things one at a time.

Can you watch or record Leno or Conan O'Brion tonight?
Lets assume you can.
1. Verify, using the "Display button " that your input is 1080i on input 7 or 8.

2. You indicate: "Everything you mention here, I had already tried except the DRC settings. I tried the DRC settings and couldn't see any difference. (than just having it off)"

If things are working normally it would be virtually impossible on the sources above for you to not see the effect of the DRC mode turned off and the DRC in Mode 1 and full on. So you need first to find out why you do not feel the DRC works.

a First - Try this: Set the Detail Enhancer to Medium, Edge Enhancer at High and the Sharpness control at 20. Run the DRC control up and down vertically 1-100 , leaving the horizontal axis at 1. What happens?
b Next -Leave the vertical axis at 100 and change Modes between OFF and Mode 1. What happens?

IF you see no clear differences with High Quality HD sources-- then we need to deal with that issue first.
High quality HD sources are most likely not reaching the XBR2.

Please let us know if you do or do not see any change in obvious apparent sharpness (the effect is not subtle) when you do the above 2 experiments.

KT



Thanks again for helping me try to figure out what's going on here.....

Using a recording from my DVR of the Today show on NBC and going live on HD net,
I verified the input is 1080i using the display button.

Using the settings you suggested on (a) and running the vertical axis up & down (paused and not paused): I could see NO visible difference in the picture.

On suggestion (b): on a close-up of a face, around the eye, I could see a very small(hardly noticeable) amount of what I would say was some vertical lines being cleared up when going to Mode 1 from OFF. This was with the picture paused and really looking for any change.

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post #2213 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 11:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by WaldorfSalad View Post

A green blob for a while after power-on is considered to be normal. It would be helpful to know how long it took to fade.

I was out of the house for about an hour. I will try to time it the next time it happens.
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post #2214 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 11:48 AM
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Plasma....I am particularly interested in how you feel HD signals look, compared from your old 60 to the new 70. Is the 70 as sharp?

Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmabuyer View Post

Fellows,

Just wanted to let you all know that I will be joining the XBR2 club in moments (the wait is killing me ). My replacement 70" is on the truck for delivery to my humble abode.

Since morning I have been prepping my staging area to make room for the big brother to my now retiring 60XBR1. Just simulating the screen size in my living room is giving me goose bumps since my viewing distance is a mere 11' - talk about an immersive experience.

I will be posting pictures when it's all set up.

For those who have been following my saga on the 60XBR1 discoloration, Sony finally agreed to budge from their $2500 upgrade demand and we came to an agreement I could not refuse .

Based on my experience, all I can recommend is to pursue your case diligently with Sony and escalate if nothing gets done. Thanks to a lot of folks here, I made my case to the higher up's and was able to get what I needed.

I was very initimately familiar with the 60XBR1's Service Menus. Has anybody here ventured into exploring what is different in the SM for the XBR2's???

I'd also appreciate if someone can loan me their copy of the SM - just like I did with my XBR1 SM .

More later..........

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post #2215 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by foolio04 View Post

I just purchased the XBR2 and looking at calibration. Has anyone had their 60 XBR 2 calibrated and can say they have seen a difference in picture quality after the calibration.

Last night UMR (Jeff Meier at Accucal) calibrated my new 70XBR2, and there is a dramatic improvement in picture quality. Pre calibration, it was the typical Sony blooming reds and ruddy skin tones; and that bright slightly unnatural shade of green in every foliage image. Beyond the color issues the image was over-sharpened and somewhat blocky looking. Even in HD, faces looked sort of flat and clay-like. UMR brought in his equipment, his patient systematic analysis of each input, and his artist's eye -- and the results of the calibration are phenomenal. I've owned a succession of Sonys, and I've never seen such accurate, natural skin tones. There is now a smooth, luminous, three-dimensional quality to the image that is reminiscent of the best plasma displays. Black is very black and the dark portions of the images are noise-free and full of visible detail. Every substance and texture -- wood, leather, fabric, food - looks just as it does in life. I'm in heaven -- this is truly Christmas in November.

There is no doubt that UMR is the Stradivarius of Sony calibration and if you can get him to calibrate your display, do it. He understands these displays at the molecular level and he willingly answered every question I had. For someone like me who has spent hundreds of hours on the Internet researching every aspect of these displays -- it's totally amazing to have a super talented and knowledgeable expert with extensive hands-on experience with all the major brands and models tell you everything you ever wanted to know. I was thrilled to learn that he genuinely likes the 70XBR2 and thinks that it is an excellent product. After he calibrated my display, he brought out his reference DVDs: Charlotte Gray, Toy Story; and the HD-DVD of Phantom of the Opera. He pointed out several aspects in which the image produced by my 70XBR2 is superior to the Qualia. And he should know: he has calibrated more Qualias than anyone else.

The pre-calibration settings on my display were out of the box. (The set was delivered on Friday; I turned it on and left it on all weekend and didn't tweak. I was extremely lucky to get an appointment with Jeff on Tuesday) I've promised not to divulge Jeff's proprietary settings, but I will say that he had to realign the panels and remedy a significant blue shift. One aspect of the calibration process that I found really interesting is that many of the correct settings are completely counterintuitive. When he gave me the printout for my three inputs:Toshiba HD-A1 DVD player, Denon 3910 DVD player, and DirectTV H20, I was really surprised by the numerical and qualitative choices he had made. There is no way I would ever have reached those settings using a subjective tweaking process. However, the bottom line is that the display looks absolutely stunning. After he left, I stayed awake all night watching my favorite old DVDs and enjoying details I've never seen before.

Jeff also calibrated my surround sound system and the improvement there is even more dramatic. My audio equipment is old, mid-priced stuff and and he was able to give me specific recommendations for new components that will update and improve audio performance without having to replace the entire system. In my opinion the best accessory you can buy for your XBR2 is a good professional calibration -- and UMR (if you can get him) is the true master of the art.
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post #2216 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RowdyUSP40 View Post

Thanks again for helping me try to figure out what's going on here.....

Using a recording from my DVR of the Today show on NBC and going live on HD net,
I verified the input is 1080i using the display button.

Good, you are seeing a 1080i signal -but, and this is highly unlikely, is there any possibility that the shows are received analog -received at 480i and are just being scaled up to 1080i by your recorder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RowdyUSP40 View Post

On suggestion (b): on a close-up of a face, around the eye, I could see a very small(hardly noticeable) amount of what I would say was some vertical lines being cleared up when going to Mode 1 from OFF. This was with the picture paused and really looking for any change.

OK, thanks for the test results.
When you still frame an image you automatically drop the V resolution in half. Any area of the image where you can see the edges of each H line -which will now be visible --will be sharpened and become more visible when you turn up the palette control. The effect is easier to see than the effects of sharpening an ordinary image. This is what what you saw, and it is expected, and indicates to me your palette control is working.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RowdyUSP40 View Post

...Using a recording from my DVR of the Today show on NBC and going live on HD net.... Using the settings you suggested on (a) and running the vertical axis up & down (paused and not paused): I could see NO visible difference in the picture.

There is a difference in sharpness and image quality between shows. The Today show is not of the same high quality as Conan O'Brion, and HDnet does not always have the best images--(but usually does).
So, in order to run the test I suggested please record Conan O'Brion as I originally requested and watch the opening 5 minutes. You have to have a known high Quality show to use as test material. Again, it is expected you will see the differences in the tests I suggested --with this show.


Vision and viewing distance effects:
This just occurred to me because of my finding that I needed to have an extra set of eyeglasses made to allow me to see my screen sharply at 7 feet: My normal prescription for distance worked great at 20 feet or long distances..but would not produce a really sharp image at 7-10 feet.

And the viewing distance from the screen will influence the visibility of real screen sharpness (keep in mind that because of limitations of the eye one can not see the full 2M pixels displayed from a TV display if you are further than 8 feet from a 70 inch display (7 feet for 60 inch) ..beyond these distances your ability to see HD with full resolution will fall off, and poorer images will begin to look great and the changes in sharpness control settings will begin to have less impact).
So, my last questions are these:

1. How far away are you from the set? (Look at it from 7 or 8 feet).

2. And from your normal distance - can you see and read clearly with each eye the logos on the front bottom of the set? If these are not sharp you will not be able to see easily the sharpening effects of the palette control.

KT
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post #2217 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 01:10 PM
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UMR is paying me a visit next Friday (provided my TV shows up in time).

I can't wait!
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post #2218 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 01:18 PM
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is it possible that a trucking company charge 6.8% of the price of the TV for insurance? i.e. around $170?
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post #2219 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 01:47 PM
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KTTW,

The difference between 20 and 7 feet should not make a difference in your ability to resolve detail.

As we get older, the distance at which we can see gradually becomes farther and farther away. At a bit over 40, our "arms get too short" and we need bifocals. However, the prescription you have for 20 feet should work just fine at 40 inches. If it does not, I would suggest that you see a specialist because it's not just a matter of changing your prescription. Something else is going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTTV Images View Post

.

Vision and viewing distance effects:
This just occurred to me because of my finding that I needed to have an extra set of eyeglasses made to allow me to see my screen sharply at 7 feet: My normal prescription for distance worked great at 20 feet or long distances..but would not produce a really sharp image at 7-10 feet.

And the viewing distance from the screen will influence the visibility of real screen sharpness (keep in mind that because of limitations of the eye one can not see the full 2M pixels displayed from a TV display if you are further than 8 feet from a 70 inch display (7 feet for 60 inch) ..beyond these distances your ability to see HD with full resolution will fall off, and poorer images will begin to look great and the changes in sharpness control settings will begin to have less impact).
So, my last questions are these:


KT

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post #2220 of 12065 Old 11-08-2006, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsVana View Post

Last night UMR (Jeff Meier at Accucal) calibrated my new 70XBR2, and there is a dramatic improvement in picture quality. Pre calibration, it was the typical Sony blooming reds and ruddy skin tones; and that bright slightly unnatural shade of green in every foliage image. Beyond the color issues the image was over-sharpened and somewhat blocky looking. Even in HD, faces looked sort of flat and clay-like. UMR brought in his equipment, his patient systematic analysis of each input, and his artist's eye -- and the results of the calibration are phenomenal. I've owned a succession of Sonys, and I've never seen such accurate, natural skin tones. There is now a smooth, luminous, three-dimensional quality to the image that is reminiscent of the best plasma displays. Black is very black and the dark portions of the images are noise-free and full of visible detail. Every substance and texture -- wood, leather, fabric, food - looks just as it does in life. I'm in heaven -- this is truly Christmas in November.

There is no doubt that UMR is the Stradivarius of Sony calibration and if you can get him to calibrate your display, do it. In my opinion the best accessory you can buy for your XBR2 is a good professional calibration -- and UMR (if you can get him) is the true master of the art.

I can second this recommendation -- although I lack MsVana's video eloquence to express myself. UMR worked on my 70" last week. The final result was indeed impressive. I was watching the original CSI recently and marvelled at how good the typically dark interior scenes looked. The dark and light streaked backgrounds had good detail and the brightly lit faces didn't glow or seem unnatural.

Even Dishnetwork SD programming looks far better than it did OTB. It's now the best SD I've seen on an HD set. And my 480i DVD player looks much, much better now. Almost as good as my Toshiba HD-DVD player (with a DVD of course).

I find myself wondering how the typical consumer would react to one of these sets after such a calibration. Some questions posted on this forum have been things like "does the XBR2 pop?" One could easly define "pop" as the oversaturated, over sharpened OTB settings the XBR2 started with. "Real" may not equate to "pop" for the less experienced consumer. Recently a friend of mine (who should know better) was describing his viewing experience of several plasmas and LCD flat panels at Best Buy in terms of which was the brighter set. My efforts to redirect the conversation to set properties other than light output didn't meet with success.

Robbin
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