ISF Calibration - or use AVS? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 05:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm about to pull the trigger on a Sony 50A2000.

My question is, how much better of a job will ISF calibration do versus following the info from here?

I have no issue going into service menu, etc.




Are there any supplies I need to help with the calibration?
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post #2 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 05:33 AM
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It depends on your tools, skill and care along with the ISF person you are comparing too. Both of these are variable in there capabilities. It is impossible to predict how well a single individual will perform this task because any group statistics I may have are not valid for an individual.

I see many displays where people have calibrated it before I arrive with information from AVS. Most of the time it had poorer colors than if they had done nothing. I really don't remember seeing a Sony display that was very close to the desired goal before I made any adjustments because of adjustments the client made.

For example, to equal my calibration you would need the same tools I use. These include a spectroradiometer, software to calculate display performance, video generators, 8VSB test material, HD-DVD test material and DVD test material. You also need some knowledge of how to adjust the necessary service and user parameters in addition to understanding what the goals are and how various parameter interact.
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post #3 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT
I'm about to pull the trigger on a Sony 50A2000.

My question is, how much better of a job will ISF calibration do versus following the info from here?

I have no issue going into service menu, etc.

Are there any supplies I need to help with the calibration?
LOL (at myself). You're braver than I am Raistlin. When I read your post I couldn't help but hear, "How much better of a job will a board certfied surgeon do vs. me removing my wife's appendix myself. I have no problem going into the belly (of the beast?). What instruments will I need to do the surgery?"

Yeah it may just be me, but delving into the service menu when I don't even know what supplies (like a service manual?) that I would need would scare the fool out of me. Today's displays are very complex and very expensive. I included ISF calibration in my purchase budget myself. At any rate, if you choose to dig into the service menu yourself (and many braver/more experienced souls than myself do) the calibration forum can be found here . It seems to me that there's not much in the way of specific instructions there on service menus, however. I think many posters are concerned about leading others into trouble?

Be sure and tell us how it works out.
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post #4 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 05:54 AM
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The biggest problems I find with display performance that an amateur has a shot a improving are...

1. Gray Scale Tracking. The color of gray should stay about the same from 0 to 100 percent. You should adjust the gains and biases so the color of gray is as neutral as possible from 0 to 100 percent. A gray ramp test pattern is necessary for this.

2. Black Level. Adjust brightness on the various sources so that the darkest program material is just barely visible. A test pattern is useful for this or you can use dark program material.

3. Light Ouput. Adjust the iris and lamp so the blacks do not glow.

4. White Level. Adjust the picture control so that the color of gray does not shift at 100 percent signal level.

5. Gamma. Adjust the gamma curve so that the picture contrast is proper. This requires a light meter, test patterns and some calculations to do well unless you know what a picture should look like.

6. Sharpness. Adjust the sharpness control such that no edge enhancement is visible and the transition from gray to black to gray is maintained with high resolution horizontal and vertical lines. If the black transition turns gray the picture is too soft. If outlines appear around the black lines the picture is too sharp. If these conditions cannot be met additional parameters need to be modified to obtain the desired performance.

Absolute color accuracy and minimizing artifacts are the most difficult things for an amateur to achieve because they require more tools and knowledge.
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post #5 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT
I'm about to pull the trigger on a Sony 50A2000.

My question is, how much better of a job will ISF calibration do versus following the info from here?

I have no issue going into service menu, etc.




Are there any supplies I need to help with the calibration?

Best buy once tried to show me the difference between calibrated and non calibrated but there was a catch, it was actually hd vs sd comparison :rolleyes:
Anyways i really would like to see isf vs best what i could do. somehow i still think colors would be cartoon on most calibrated tv's with test patterns mentality.
I also think theres a "art" to making a accurate looking picture that test patterns cant help you with.

Anyways you could always buy a 50in plasma that will beat out any calibrated rear projection tv in that size range.
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post #6 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 09:13 AM
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I too have a Sony. Go ISF, definitely. But as someone mentioned, there are great calibrators and not-so-great calibrators. My first one sucked; the one I use now (referred to me) is incredible. And his latest calibration "tool" cost over $20,000, so you can pretty much draw your own conclusion about ISF vs. do-it-yourself. PM me for name & contact info of my tech.

EDIT: Eliab of Avical: http://www.avical.com/

Awesome calibrator - highly recommended!

ISF calibrated by Eliab - and lovin' it!

My DVD Profiler
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post #7 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxman
I too have a Sony. Go ISF, definitely. But as someone mentioned, there are great calibrators and not-so-great calibrators. My first one sucked; the one I use now (referred to me) is incredible. And his latest calibration "tool" cost over $20,000, so you can pretty much draw your own conclusion about ISF vs. do-it-yourself. PM me for name & contact info of my tech.
Why keep it a secret...who calibrated your set...no need for PM. ;)

Joe V.
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post #8 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 09:59 AM
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Maxman...htwaits has started a thread on this very subject...you might want to pm him with the details of your calibration. :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...26#post8242226

Joe V.
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post #9 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwv651
Why keep it a secret...who calibrated your set...no need for PM. ;)
It's in my profile:

ISF calibration by Eliab of Avical. http://www.avical.com/

Audio calibration by Lee Richmond of NuSound Concepts http://www.nusoundconcepts.com/

EXTREMELY happy with both!

ISF calibrated by Eliab - and lovin' it!

My DVD Profiler
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post #10 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 11:43 AM
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Thanks maxman...from what I read Eliab and David from Avical come very highly recommended on this forum.

Joe V.
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post #11 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxman
EXTREMELY happy with both!
Thanks for the comment. ;)

I've included it in the list that is linked at the bottom of my post.
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post #12 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you think an ISF calibrator would be upset if I request that he allows me to document every setting.

That way I have a starting (or return :D) point for any craziness I do after?

;)
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post #13 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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BTW - If any one reading this (umr :)) does calibration in the Buffalo, NY area ... feel free to PM me with pricing, etc. info!!
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post #14 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT
Do you think an ISF calibrator would be upset if I request that he allows me to document every setting.

That way I have a starting (or return :D) point for any craziness I do after?

;)
No, but WHY would you pay for a calibrator and then mess with their settings? :eek:

ISF calibrated by Eliab - and lovin' it!

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post #15 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 04:49 PM
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is there any way for settings to change because of a power outage?

Let the awe and mystery of a journey unlike any other begin
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post #16 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strutter
is there any way for settings to change because of a power outage?
No - not in my experience, but that's a good question for your technician. I can't speak for other TV makes/models.

ISF calibrated by Eliab - and lovin' it!

My DVD Profiler
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post #17 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 05:22 PM
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Do you have to get your set recalibrated every time you change a lamp?
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post #18 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Active Speaker
Do you have to get your set recalibrated every time you change a lamp?
I can't help you with that; mine's a rear-projection CRT - no lamp!

ISF calibrated by Eliab - and lovin' it!

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post #19 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxman
I too have a Sony. Go ISF, definitely. But as someone mentioned, there are great calibrators and not-so-great calibrators. My first one sucked; the one I use now (referred to me) is incredible. And his latest calibration "tool" cost over $20,000, so you can pretty much draw your own conclusion about ISF vs. do-it-yourself. PM me for name & contact info of my tech.

EDIT: Eliab of Avical: http://www.avical.com/

Awesome calibrator - highly recommended!
How much did you pay?
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post #20 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxman
No, but WHY would you pay for a calibrator and then mess with their settings? :eek:
In case you need to tweek for a particular or new source?
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post #21 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by darien95
How much did you pay?
Avical's rates are here: http://www.avical.com/calibration.html

ISF calibrated by Eliab - and lovin' it!

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post #22 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT
In case you need to tweek for a particular or new source?
You'll want to discuss that with your tech. I haven't found the need to make any adjustments - the TV is set to it's optimum potential regardless of source.

ISF calibrated by Eliab - and lovin' it!

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post #23 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxman
You'll want to discuss that with your tech. I haven't found the need to make any adjustments - the TV is set to it's optimum potential regardless of source.
That doesn't make much sense, since sources are not perfect.
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post #24 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 07:56 PM
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Do you have to get your set recalibrated every time you change a lamp?
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post #25 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Active Speaker
Do you have to get your set recalibrated every time you change a lamp?
No.
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post #26 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 08:20 PM
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Thanks, Jeff. I will definitely have you calibrate whatever I end up getting; I'm patiently waiting my turn (my wife goes first, of course)!
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post #27 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 08:22 PM
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Thanks, Jeff. I will definitely have you calibrate whatever I end up getting; I'm patiently waiting my turn (my wife goes first, of course)!
I look forward to meeting you. :cool:
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post #28 of 54 Old 11-05-2006, 09:50 PM
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Jeff,

I see you will be in SF this March. When in the Bay Area would you venture up to downtown Napa to calibrate a set? (About 1-1.5 hrs from SF)

If so, which set would you recommend me buying? Mits 65732, Mits 65831, Samsung 6767, or JVC 56FN97. (Plan on buying from Costco, so limited to the above and learning towards the bigger set, but thinking at 9-11 ft viewing the 56" should be big enough.

Thanks,
Tom
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post #29 of 54 Old 11-06-2006, 05:35 AM
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Jeff,

I see you will be in SF this March. When in the Bay Area would you venture up to downtown Napa to calibrate a set? (About 1-1.5 hrs from SF)

If so, which set would you recommend me buying? Mits 65732, Mits 65831, Samsung 6767, or JVC 56FN97. (Plan on buying from Costco, so limited to the above and learning towards the bigger set, but thinking at 9-11 ft viewing the 56" should be big enough.

Thanks,
Tom
Tom,

I should be in that area around the middle to the end of the month. It is hard to say exactly since I have not scheduled that trip at this point.

Please email me at jeff@accucal.org if you wish to discuss specific display choices. I do not post that information on the open forum. It just causes heartache.
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post #30 of 54 Old 11-06-2006, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr
It just causes heartache.
... and heartburn. ;)
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