2007 Samsung DLP Information From CES! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1255 Old 01-02-2007, 11:36 PM - Thread Starter
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The CES and pre-release information has been moved to the third post in this thread. ... [link]

I will post links to new owner's threads here as they are created.

2007 Samsung LED Owner's Thread (HLT XX87/89S)... [link] 1080P
2007 Samsung HL-Txx76 Owner's Thread... [link] 1080P
Samsung 720p Owner's Thread --- HLTxx75S DLP Models... [link]

Samsung seems to have redesigned their web site as of 07/09/2007. I'm not sure that it's better. You can use this link to get the available information about any of the HL-T models.

Samsung's 2007 HL-T models.

HL-T5076S Lamp
HL-T5676S Lamp
HL-T6176S Lamp
HL-T6156W Lamp
HL-T6756W Lamp
HL-T7288W Lamp

HL-T5087S LED
HL-T5687S LED
HL-T6187S LED

HL-T5089S LED
HL-T5689S LED
HL-T6189S LED

HL-T4675S Lamp
HL-T5075S Lamp
HL-T5675S Lamp
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post #2 of 1255 Old 01-03-2007, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

If you have specific questions about Samsung's new models, both lamp and LED, post them here.

If you are going to CES and are interested in Samsung's 2007 DLP models maybe you can pick up any good questions that are posted here and get us some answers.

I'm interested in any available LED information.

Will any Samsung model accept 1080p@24fps and also display at a multiple of 24fps?

What version of HDMI will be in Samsung's 2007 models?

Will andy Samsung models give control of extra overscan (enabling 1:1 pixel mapping) back to the user as in the 2004 HLP models.

Is Samsung claiming any improvement in there screens as far as SSE is concerned?

There must be many more questions.

I'll move questions to this post as they come up. That way all your CES attendees can get the whole list from one post.

I will be there and check it out...

I would love to see 1080p24/48/72 frame rates; a 80+ in. set with the .95 in.
DMD; and Dynamic Black with CR of at least 15,000:1.... 1:1 pixel mapping is a must...

 

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post #3 of 1255 Old 01-03-2007, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
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We have some answers now!

LED differences list added. Updated 01/16/2007:

I'm going to start collecting what seems to be the most reliable information about the 2007 Samsung DLP RPTV sets in this post. If you come up with new or improved information just post it in this thread, and I'll incorporate it here at the top of the thread. Updated 01/12/2007:

Here is an early set of pictures. Be aware that sometimes Samsung will post the same picture for different models. 02/13/2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by andydumi View Post

I downloaded some of the pictures on the press release website and cleaned them up, some even had viruses in the tifs .

Anyway,
This seems to be the new lineup of TVs:

LED-based (HDMI 1.2) HL-Txx87S:


LED-based (HDMI 1.3) HL-Txx89S:


Lamp-based w/ color wheel (HDMI 1.2) HL-Txx75S (also available in 46 inch):


Lamp-based w/ color wheel (HDMI 1.3) HL-Txx76S:



Some new Models??

HL-T5055W (cheap entry level maybe?)


HL-T6779


HL-T5656

Quote:
Here is a link to the owner's manual for the "75" series which now seems to be 720p. 02/21/2007

HL-T4675S, HL-T5075S, HL-T5675S User Manual

From Amazon (03/08/2007):

Samsung HLT5075S 50" Slim 720p DLP HDTV
Slim Cabinet Design 13.4" Deep
2,500:1 Contrast Ratio
Game Mode, 3D Ready
15 Watt Stereo, Tru-Surround XT
(2) HDMI, USB, PC input
Product Dimensions: 45 x 32 x 13 inches
Shipping Weight: 72.00 pounds

Samsung HLT5675S 50" Slim 720p DLP HDTV
Product Dimensions: 50 x 35 x 14 inches
Shipping Weight: 84.00 pounds

Samsung HLT4675S 50" Slim 720p DLP HDTV
Product Dimensions: 41 x 29 x 11 inches ; 124 pounds
Shipping Weight: 58.00 pounds


There is no 61" set in this group, and there are only two HDMI ports.

For a short cut to those answers use these links. Updated 01/10/2007:

Provided by bfdtv

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

On January 7, Samsung unveiled its next-generation HL-T 1080p DLPs. There are two model lines, each available in 50", 56", and 61" sizes.

The x87 and x89 "Slim LED" series are based on LED technology (no color wheel), with depths of 13.4 to 15.4 inches. The x75 and x76 "Ultra-slim" series are based on a more traditional lamp with a RGBCM (red, green, blue, cyan, magenta) color wheel, a change from Samsung's past designs which used RGBYM (red, green, blue, yellow, magenta); they have depths of 11.5 to 12.3 inches.

All models feature 10,000:1 contrast ratios, an 8th generation 1080p light engine, built-in NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuners, and three HDMI inputs. The x76 and x89 series add HDMI 1.3, USB 2.0, and Bluetooth. All are said to be "3D ready for the next generation Full HD gaming experience."

By going to the download center at Samsung's US web site you can find material about the HL-T "75", "87", and "89" series of models. As of 03/26/2007 there was nothing in the download list for the "76" series. See the "76" PDF links below.

Samsung's Download Center

HL-T5687S specs at a third party web site.

Availability on HDMI 1.2 models (x75/x87) is slated for April. Availability on HDMI 1.3 models (x76/x89) is slated for April/May.

LED-based (HDMI 1.2)
HL-T5087S: 50-inch, $2,399
HL-T5687S: 56-inch, $2,799
HL-T6187S: 61-inch, $3,199

LED-based (HDMI 1.3)
HL-T5089S: 50-inch, $x,xxx
HL-T5689S: 56-inch, $x,xxx
HL-T6189S: 61-inch, $x,xxx

Lamp-based w/ color wheel (HDMI 1.2)
HL-T4675S: 46 inch, $x,xxx has been added to 720p series.
HL-T5075S: 50-inch, $x,xxx (This model number has been used for a 720p set.
HL-T5675S: 56-inch, $x,xxx(This model number has been used for a 720p set.
HL-T6175S: 61-inch, $x,xxx(This model number hasn't been used so far.)
See Amazon note above for prices.

Lamp-based w/ color wheel (HDMI 1.3)
HL-T5076S: 50-inch, $2,099 Final Specs PDF Nothing about HDMI version is included.
HL-T5676S: 56-inch, $2,499 Final Specs PDF Nothing about HDMI version is included.
HL-T6176S: 61-inch, $2,899 Final Specs PDF Nothing about HDMI version is included.


Other notes:
  • Samsung also had a new 72" lamp-based design at CES (HL-T7288W), but it was not a slim profile display -- depth was 20". (Updated 03/24/2007)

  • The 2007 models use an 8th generation DMD to improve contrast, but as with all previous consumer 1080p DLP TVs, the design relies on 960x1080 mirrors which offset (wobulate) 120 times per second to create 1080p60 output.

  • Judder-free playback of 1080p24 sources (Blu-ray, HD-DVD) at 48Hz, 72Hz, or 96Hz is not supported.

Sources:

Provided by tonydeluce

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonydeluce View Post

Per Samsung Reps at CES today:

LED sets will be offered this year in the following sizes:
50 in. - 56in. - 61 inch.

There will be two series including a "pro" series which will start
shipping within weeks of each other. The only difference is
HDMI 1.3 for the "pro" series.

Rep stated that brightness on this year's LED sets will be on par with
the lamp based sets ( last year's LED set was not as bright as the
lamp sets ).

Claims LED sets have no possbility of "color separation" artifacts due
to the very high frequency of operation.

All sets are STUCK at 60fps again this year therefore forget about judder
free operation.

Rep said that 1080p over vga "should work" but that he recommended using
HDMI...

They also had a 71 in. lamp set that would be offered in thin cabinet this year.

I asked about 1:1 pixel mapping this year versus last year versus year before -
Rep grinned, thought for a moment, and then said he would have to refer me to
the press booth for a response to that question...

All 1080p sets this year speced at "up to 10,000:1" CR

---
TI was demoing a Samsung protoype at their booth that claimed over
100,000:1 CR and was achieved by the LEDs ability to completely shut
off to produce a true black. Blacks looked very good but it was hard
to see any aditional shadow due to the animated content they were showing.

Several posts provided by TetsujinWave

Quote:
Originally Posted by TetsujinWave View Post

1. What information is available about Samsung's LED sets.
The line has been expanded to three new models.

2. What screen sizes will be offered with LED lighting.
50", 56", and 61"

3. Will any Samsung model accept 1080p@24fps and also display at a multiple of 24fps?
NO.

4. What version of HDMI will be in Samsung's 2007 models?
1.3 in some for certain. Will verify for all DLP models tomorrow.

5. Will any Samsung models give control of extra overscan (enabling 1:1 pixel mapping) back to the user as in the 2004 HLP models?
The rep wasn't sure. I'll follow up tomorrow.

6. Is Samsung claiming any improvement in there screens as far as SSE is concerned?
No. The sets looked comparable to the current sets where SSE is concerned to my eyes.

7. Is Samsung claiming to have reduced rainbow effect on their "color wheel" sets?
No. For those who see rainbows they are pushing the expanded LED line. I can make myself see rainbows on the lamp-based sets, but they are comparable to the HLS models. The changes Samsung are touting are the reduced chassis size.

8. What information is available from JVC about their slim D-ILA sets?
I haven't found out anything yet about them. More to come.

9. Will the new Samsung sets accept a 1080p PC signal via HDMI, and still have the option of hooking up via VGA (for XBOX 360 VGA output)?
I was told they will.

10. What bit depth will Samsung have in their new 1080p models.
I couldn't find any concrete info on bit depth. I'll follow up tomorrow.

11. Is Samsung doing anything to improve the current models LE issues pertaining to the collapsing light tunnels?
Samsung's representatives are there to answer questions about the lines being shown at CES. They had no relative information concerning this question.

12. How do the 2007 MSRPs compare with the 2006 MSRPs?
I was told the MSRPs will remain close to the HLS models. The only change is that there will less of a premium between the lamp-based sets and their LED counterparts. I was also told the 61"LED should retail for $2999 (price may change, not set in stone, blah blah blah).

13. Does Samsung plan on using LED technology for front projection in the near future?
I thought this was a better question for Texas Instruments. Right now, they see LED as a rear-projection system, but are keeping their options open--a fancy way of saying "maybe."

14a. I would like to know if video processing is improved. Specifically, the current Samsung displays sometimes have trouble detecting and locking on to the 3/2 cadence for film sources broadcast as 1080i60, and I would know to know if that is fixed on the 2007 models.
The reps said that video processing had been improved, but were short on specifics. I'll try to find out more.

14b. If so, will Samsung offer an inverse telecine mode -- accessible with a remote button -- to create a 108048, 1080p72, or 1080p120 image when a film-based source (24p) source is broadcast at 108060i?
NO.

Other stuff:

1. The only sets that accepted a 1080p24 signal as is (that I saw) were the Pioneer 1080p Plasma line, the new Fujitsu plasmas and...

2. The Sony 55" Laser SXRD prototype. Slim enough to hang on a wall, excellent PQ, and no speckle issue! According to the rep, two years away at the earliest. It took 1080p120, making everyone happy. I was told this feature will not be on the upcoming SXRDs, only the prototype.

3. Panasonic has apparently replaced their DLP line with 3LCD 1080p rear-projectors which I didn't think looked as good. I'm going to the 3LCD booth tomorrow to compare, because last years' 3LCD 1080ps looked better than the model at the Panasonic booth.

4. Toshiba's 1080p DLP line will accept a 1080p signal this year, and had great PQ. However, sometimes eager reps will give a quick "yes" when they shouldn't--as when I asked if they would accept a 1080p24 signal. A Toshiba engineer from Japan heard my question and corrected her (they will not). To be clear, they will accept 1080p60, but will not accept 1080p24; this is true of the vast majority of 1080p sets.

5. The Sharp 108" Aquos looked spectacular, but the Panasonic 103" plasma looked just a little better to my eyes.

6. LG has a fantastic 1080p broadcast demo at their booth. Their plasma PQ has come a long way.

7. LG also displayed a dual format HD DVD/Blu Ray player for $1200--quite reasonable, if you ask me. They also had an internal dual format drive for PCs.

8. Samsung had several DLPs hooked up to Xbox 360s available for playtesting...Lots of fun.

9. The NuVision 52" LED DLP held its own, but I thought the Samsung LED models looked a little better.

10. LG and Samsung should bring their ultra-cool bleeding edge phones from South Korea to the US. While we're just getting phones like the Q and the Blackjack, apparently the mobile revolution has already happened in Korea.

Edited to change Samsung to Panasonic on comment 3.

Three more informative posts from TetsujinWave

Quote:
Originally Posted by TetsujinWave View Post

1) Was the original price of the HL-S models comparative to the starting prices for these new LED's (I mean the 50, 56, and 61 inch 1080p DLP displays)? If so, do you expect similar price drops? Finally could you possibly take a guess, based on the price drops of the HL-S line, if and when the prices of the upcoming LED sets will rival the prices of the current HL-S 1080p models?

I thought the prices were more than reasonable on the LED models, given what I was told and the prices listed in the press release. However, look at it like this--LED will always be a premium product, with better color reproduction and rainbow elimination over the lamp-based sets. I believe they'll always be a somewhat higher priced product.

Thanks in advance to anybody willing to speculate and help me make my decision. If the LED sets will consistently stay above $2k, I might as well just purchase the current HL-S5687 and enjoy it now. However, if I can wait 6 months and get a 56 inch LED set for under $2k, I'd opt for that. So if anybody with a good sense of future pricing is willing to give me some good advice, I'd appreciate it.

Within six months, I don't think you'll see the HLT 56" LED under $2000. JMHO.



2) One more thing, how much of a difference in picture quality (most notably for gaming) will the HDMI 1.3 make? I understand the whole 10 bit color technical crap, along with uncompressed audio. But how much of a real difference should I see when playing my PS3 on one of those new 1.3 sets, as opposed to the current 1080p S series?

Think of HDMI 1.3 as an apparatus that can take advantage of certain content if it is available. It doesn't make things happen on its own just by virtue of being there. So real world difference with PS3? Probably nothing. The future may yield something different.

Expected differences between LED and lamp based Samsung 2007 models:

The LED sets do NOT cause anyone to see "rainbows"!
The LED light unit will last a conservative 20,000 hours.
The LED sets will be ready to view in about seven seconds.
The LED max size in 2007 is 61", lamp based sets will reach 71".
The LED might not be as bright.
The LED has the capacity for a larger color space.

The LED has no color wheel which should make it quieter, and less likely to need repair.

The LED set should generate less heat. Since LED needs less fan action it should make be quieter, and be less likely to need repair.

The cost of replacing a 2007 LED light unit is unknown, but will be greater than a lamp, but it should be a lot less than replacing the light unit on the 2006 model.

The uncalibrated PQ for the 2007 LED is unknown at this time. (You can read about calibration of the 2006 HL-S5679 by using the link at the bottom of my post)

The LED should have more consistent PQ over time because the LED light unit does not grow dimmer as fast as the lamp.

The LED cases for 2007 seem to be thicker than the 2007 lamp based cases. That might be a PQ advantage for LED.

The LED sets might might need a new light engine if the LED light source fails.


The specs for all the 2007 models will be posted here as they become available.
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post #4 of 1255 Old 01-03-2007, 04:43 PM
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I will be there. I'm interested in the new slim D-ILA sets; I'm also hoping we'll see the Samsung LED light engine in larger sizes.

Rainbow reduction would be great as well.

If anyone has questions I'll try my best to have them answered.
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post #5 of 1255 Old 01-03-2007, 06:11 PM
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I am a big fan of HTPC. My question is...

Wil the new Samsung sets accept a 1080p PC signal via HDMI and still have the option of hooking up via VGA (for XBOX 360 VGA output)?
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post #6 of 1255 Old 01-03-2007, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TetsujinWave View Post

I will be there.

Great!

Quote:


If anyone has questions I'll try my best to have them answered.

I'll update the list of questions in the first message every day.
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post #7 of 1255 Old 01-03-2007, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberScott View Post

I am a big fan of HTPC. My question is...

Wil the new Samsung sets accept a 1080p PC signal via HDMI and still have the option of hooking up via VGA (for XBOX 360 VGA output)?

I've added your question to the list. Thanks.
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I'm not going to be at the event but am interested to see if Samsung is planning to release a smaller version of the LED DLP model in the coming months.
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post #9 of 1255 Old 01-03-2007, 09:12 PM
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Is there anything to 32 bit Deep Color capability that is supposed to pass through HDMI 1.3? I know there was a lot of discussion about 10 bit processing on last years model and this seems like a significant improvement.
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post #10 of 1255 Old 01-03-2007, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwanthd View Post

Is there anything to 32 bit Deep Color capability that is supposed to pass through HDMI 1.3? I know there was a lot of discussion about 10 bit processing on last years model and this seems like a significant improvement.

It's a good question, but don't expect Samsung, or anyone else to take advantage of the HDMI 1.3 video features.
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post #11 of 1255 Old 01-03-2007, 09:55 PM
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Are they doing anything to improve the current models LE issues pertaining to the collapsing light tunnels?

I tried calling to customer care tonight as we are now at the 30 day anniversary of our HL-S5087W going bad and I asked them the same question. The gentleman knew nothing other than a light engine had been found for us and it was being shipped. Basically the same status they gave us 8 days ago. ARRGGG!!!! Anyway, maybe their people at the CES are better connected and able to answer such questions.

Thanks!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

It's a good question, but don't expect Samsung, or anyone else to take advantage of the HDMI 1.3 video features.

Why do you say that? So in your opinion HDMI 1.3 really won't have dramatic impact on TV sets at all? I was bit concerned that I just bought a TV set without HDMI 1.3 but maybe I shouldn't worry?
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post #13 of 1255 Old 01-03-2007, 10:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonyHome View Post

Why do you say that? So in your opinion HDMI 1.3 really won't have dramatic impact on TV sets at all? I was bit concerned that I just bought a TV set without HDMI 1.3 but maybe I shouldn't worry?

I don't think you have anything to worry about. HDMI 1.3 doesn't drive anything. It's just a future proof pipe at this point.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewayneB View Post

Anyway, maybe their people at the CES are better connected and able to answer such questions.

Mostly the people at CES will be from marketing.

Light engine failure is not the kind of topic that I would expect any company to address at a trade show.
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post #15 of 1255 Old 01-03-2007, 11:28 PM
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Nice list, htwaits, and a good idea. Thanks. The only other question I'd have is what would Samsung price these TVs at (MSRP) with respect to their current DLP's MSRPs.

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temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.

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post #16 of 1255 Old 01-04-2007, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf7 View Post

Nice list, htwaits, and a good idea. Thanks. The only other question I'd have is what would Samsung price these TVs at (MSRP) with respect to their current DLP's MSRPs.

I don't think you have to ask to get that information, but I'll add it.
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Does Samsung plan on using LED technology for front projection in the near future?
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post #18 of 1255 Old 01-04-2007, 11:05 PM
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I read that Samsung plans to release DLP sets that are ~10" deep, and wall mountable.

Not really a question, just like to throw it out there though.
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post #19 of 1255 Old 01-05-2007, 12:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dontknow09 View Post

I read that Samsung plans to release DLP sets that are ~10" deep, and wall mountable.

There was one at last year's CES, and Samsung just announced a LCD RPTV with the same characteristics. Check the AVS home page.
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post #20 of 1255 Old 01-05-2007, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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That's probably all the CES questions we will get for this year. Now we have to wait for tonydeluce and TetsujinWave to report back. Enjoy the beginning of the speculation season.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

There was one at last year's CES, and Samsung just announced a LCD RPTV with the same characteristics. Check the AVS home page.

Any information that can be had regarding the new LCD RPTV would be great. Would like to know if it's going to be 1080p. Pictures would be great.
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I would like to know if video processing is improved. Specifically, the current Samsung displays sometimes have trouble detecting and locking on to the 3/2 cadence for film sources broadcast as 1080i60, and I would know to know if that is fixed on the 2007 models.

If so, will Samsung offer an inverse telecine mode -- accessible with a remote button -- to create a 108048, 1080p72, or 1080p120 image when a film-based source (24p) source is broadcast at 108060i?
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post #23 of 1255 Old 01-05-2007, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

I would like to know if video processing is improved. Specifically, the current Samsung displays sometimes have trouble detecting and locking on to the 3/2 cadence for film sources broadcast as 1080i60, and I would know to know if that is fixed on the 2007 models.

If so, will Samsung offer an inverse telecine mode -- accessible with a remote button -- to create a 108048, 1080p72, or 1080p120 image when a film-based source (24p) source is broadcast at 108060i?

I've added your questions to the list in post # 1 but I don't know if our two pilgrims will check the list again before they go into the pit in Las Vegas.
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post #24 of 1255 Old 01-05-2007, 11:42 AM
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From the NY Times article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/04/te...gewanted=print

Looks like thin is in. Note the correction at the bottom. This article originally said "LCD" but was later corrected to "DLP".
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post #25 of 1255 Old 01-05-2007, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Roboman View Post

From the NY Times article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/04/te...gewanted=print

Looks like thin is in. Note the correction at the bottom. This article originally said "LCD" but was later corrected to "DLP".

Thanks for the heads up. I wondered why Samsung would announce DLP last year at CES and then announce LCD this year.
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post #26 of 1255 Old 01-05-2007, 02:36 PM
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Thanks for the heads up. I wondered why Samsung would announce DLP last year at CES and then announce LCD this year.

Thanks. That makes sense. I thought maybe they were making their version of an A10/E2000. That's why I was wondering if it'd be 1080p.
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post #27 of 1255 Old 01-07-2007, 12:39 PM
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Question: Is anything being done with the second generation LED based sets to try to reduce/eliminate the out-of-the-box color banding issues seen in the 5679W?

htwaits, thanks for compiling this great list! I can't wait to see what the feedback is to the questions posted.


-Bryan
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post #28 of 1255 Old 01-07-2007, 01:35 PM
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8. What information is available from JVC about their slim D-ILA sets?

Why is this question directed at Samsung?
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post #29 of 1255 Old 01-07-2007, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Why is this question directed at Samsung?

It's not, but people tend to visit other booths.
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post #30 of 1255 Old 01-07-2007, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Question: Is anything being done with the second generation LED based sets to try to reduce/eliminate the out-of-the-box color banding issues seen in the 5679W?

This type of question, like the collapsing light engine question, just don't get answered at a show like CES. It's safe to assume that Samsung has tried to fix the banding. Since it's not present in "movie" mode that shouldn't be too hard. The proof will come when the first 2007 LED sets find their way into new owner's hands.


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htwaits, thanks for compiling this great list! I can't wait to see what the feedback is to the questions posted.

You're welcome. I'm just copying what others have done in the past. Our investigators will do the heavy lifting.
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