Hitachi 51/57/65F59A CRT RPTV Tweaks Thread - Page 161 - AVS Forum
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post #4801 of 4830 Old 12-18-2013, 01:01 PM
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What's the difference in price?

b
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post #4802 of 4830 Old 12-18-2013, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

What's the difference in price?

b

$499 without Darblet
$599 with. (103D)

Not unreasonable if you want the 103.
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post #4803 of 4830 Old 12-18-2013, 02:17 PM
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Absolutely! Not at all.

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post #4804 of 4830 Old 02-12-2014, 05:17 PM
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Since I have not seen much about shim mods lately

I have a Hitachi 43UWX10B. I bought the TV in the summer on 2003. I was told that the TV came from clearance at Sears. I used the TV for about two years until I got a bigger one. The set worked fine but there have always been some nagging things that bugged me (Overscan, No DVI, No VGA) So the TV has sat in my house for the past 8 years until now. Last week I was able to rent from the library DVE Basics. But this was pretty old and didn't really have any HD Test Screens. So I looked around and found a library that has DVE HD BASIC. This DVD is awesome. So I hooked up my LG Blue Ray player to component and than ran the test scan for 1080i. And here is the result






I removed the back cover to clean the lens and this looks odd to me




I was thinking about the shim mod but I wonder if this is the cause of some of the bad vertical overscan?

Any thoughts would be appreciated....
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post #4805 of 4830 Old 02-12-2014, 07:02 PM
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Horizontal looks pretty good. You can try adjusting the vertical screen pot to get that circle in the center round.

 

 

At this point, it's probably not worth redoing the entire geometry, but there's plenty of info here if you are so inclined.

I suggest a phone consult with Mr. Bob about cleaning those lenses. You don't want to do it wrong, and any mistake is permanent.


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post #4806 of 4830 Old 02-12-2014, 07:15 PM
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That oval makes it look to me like your DVD player is set wrong. That's way too much vertical-only offness to be simply too much overscan, which is usually relatively symmetrical, horizontal vs. vertical.

I would play with the settings on your player before touching either the shimming op or the sizing pots. I would not change anything right now but inside that player. And make sure it's actually putting out 1080i.

Including not touching the optics without professional supervision. Listen to Michael. Yes any damage is instantaneous and permanent, and very easy to do on the first time around when you've never done it before.

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post #4807 of 4830 Old 02-12-2014, 07:43 PM
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My LG Blue ray player is normally hooked up to component on my Pro-510Hd. I ran the 1080i test pattern and it did not look like this. But when I ran it on the Hitachi this was the result.

Looking at the second picture of the lenses. From the back side of the tv the bracket that supports the lense on the left is upside down. Is this a problem does this affect the orientation of the lense?

I don't want to mess up the TV so slow is good. I appreciate the help


Thanks
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post #4808 of 4830 Old 02-12-2014, 08:33 PM
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Update






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post #4809 of 4830 Old 02-12-2014, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 630-fusion View Post

My LG Blue ray player is normally hooked up to component on my Pro-510Hd. I ran the 1080i test pattern and it did not look like this. But when I ran it on the Hitachi this was the result.

Looking at the second picture of the lenses. From the back side of the tv the bracket that supports the lense on the left is upside down. Is this a problem does this affect the orientation of the lense?

I don't want to mess up the TV so slow is good. I appreciate the help


Thanks

No that orientation is normal. Won't affect anything.

Don't even think about doing the shim mod before straightening out this imbalance between hor and vert. The shim mod affects hor and vert equally, it resizes the entire pic, not just in one direction or another. It will not change any sizing asymmetrically, it will not correct the fact that the vertical is way more off than the horizontal.

That circle should be a circle, not an oval. Start by trying the various aspect ratios of your bluray player, and if none of those gets the circle to at least be a circle, then carefully mark where you are starting on the vertical pot, reduce it by turning it counterclockwise and see what happens when your circle's vertical size is reduced. Even tho you will finally wind up with a circle just like you should, you will have all sorts of other anomalies that will creep in as soon as you tweak the pot - straight lines turned curved, parallel lines no longer parallel - so be ready to straighten it all out again by putting it back where it was/where you marked it. That marking is what we affectionately call our bread crumbs trail back to where we started.

Then decide whether you really want to take this on by yourself. If your player's settings cannot improve that circle, then it is way off on its vertical sizing and the entire picture was calibrated according to that incorrect symmetry. Correcting that symmetry is going to open up a huge can of worms elsewhere.

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post #4810 of 4830 Old 02-12-2014, 11:04 PM
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Good news

I did a little test, unplugged the component cable, then plugged it into connection 5

Here are the results









Thanks really appreciate the help...
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post #4811 of 4830 Old 02-13-2014, 06:41 AM
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It's a miracle!

Good work.

Now talk to Bob about the cleaning, and you're golden.


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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #4812 of 4830 Old 02-13-2014, 11:55 AM
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Bet you the input you had it in was Y to the composite input and Pb/Pr to the audio inputs, which automatically limits you to 480i.

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post #4813 of 4830 Old 02-13-2014, 02:32 PM
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The problem is not exactly what you think

You see jacks 4 and 5 are combo jacks. Circa 2003 I had a DVD player on Source 4 and my HD set top box on Source 5. I think the TV got confused when I tried the test disk at 1080i. You are right Bob the TV was not displaying 1080i and that caused the circle to to be oval.

I really have not used the set in 8 years. Joe Cane's HD Basic Blu-Ray made me curious to check out the overscan

Now on to the geometry I notice the picture is not quite centered. From the + sign there are 10 1/8 boxes to the right and 11 1/4 boxes to left. So horizontally it needs to move to the right so that there is something like 10 3/4 boxes on both sides.

Does this have to be done is the service menui?
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post #4814 of 4830 Old 03-12-2014, 05:20 PM
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Great comments about Michaels's Pics and Darbee on the previous page. I plugged a Darbee inwith my 65"er last summer. And never saw such a dramatic improvement. The Darbee actually seems to allow my set to hold its convergence much better. I don't have to fiddle with it all all most of the time now. It's usually dead center. And I only need to touch up the edges. I recently tried the "Edge Enhancement" again to see if it still left undesirable artifacts with Darbee in the chain. All I can say is WOW! Not only were they gone (especially the green tinted edges in some patterns like Plaid). But the image presented was as sharp and crisp as any of the better LCD or Plasma sets I've seen. So I can personally attest to the sharpness and crispness you're seeing in Michael's screenshots. And the unmatched CRT color depth pops out like never before with Darbee. I tend to watch a lot of the science channels. And my picture looks almost 3D to the naked eye with Darbee in the chain. The new Cosmos series was spell binding. I have eschewed EE in the past. But when used with Darbee, I'm getting ungodly image structure. There is no technology anywhere, that I've seen which compares with my Hitachi 1080i with Darbee. I'm so glad I stuck it out with CRT. Thanks to all of the awesome advice I've received from contributors on this and the other CRT thread.
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post #4815 of 4830 Old 03-13-2014, 11:43 PM
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Thanks for your perceptive review of the Darblet. I have one here that I was equipped with at CES by Paul's son, who took over the biz when Paul Darbee died. If you want one you can get them from me now, I have become a distributor for the Darblet.

b
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post #4816 of 4830 Old 03-14-2014, 05:20 AM
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I am parting with my 57f59. I am in central Ohio, does anyone want it?
Entertainment center included too.


Thanks,
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post #4817 of 4830 Old 03-14-2014, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Thanks for your perceptive review of the Darblet. I have one here that I was equipped with at CES by Paul's son, who took over the biz when Paul Darbee died. If you want one you can get them from me now, I have become a distributor for the Darblet.

b

Took you long enough. ;)

Have YOU tried it?


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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #4818 of 4830 Old 03-14-2014, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 630-fusion View Post

Does this have to be done is the service menu?

Yup. Here, if you don't already have one:

http://elektrotanya.com/hitachi_dp65g_chassis_51f59_57f59_65f59a_tv_sm.pdf/download.html


Downloadable FREE demo discs:
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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #4819 of 4830 Old 03-14-2014, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Took you long enough. wink.gif
Have YOU tried it?

I think a lot of the nuance that Bob was describing in your Pics were directly from the Darbee. Because that is what I see it doing with CRT better than any other display tech. It really tightens up the image structure and details. So that all of the superior aspects of CRT like color depth and shadow detail ust jump off the screen on you. Mine almost looks like passive 3D under certain circumstances. I still can't get over how much it improved Avatar on my Blu Ray Player. Even my wife, who can care less about this stuff commented about how much depth was in the picture. And how vivid the colors were. She never commented on that set before Darbee. I had my Darbee set at 55% on Full Pop for that 3D Avatar viewing. Darbee is the tool that makes CRT tech even at 1080i better than anything out there right now. And right up there with OLED IMO. OLED with 4k may be a different animal. But it is a way off before being an affordable & viable option in big screen format IMO.
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post #4820 of 4830 Old 03-15-2014, 11:37 AM
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OMG, BB. Now I gotta try it!

The Darblet is strictly 100% HDMI, in and out. I have been so in love with my 73" Mit's images that I have really honestly had no great incentive to want to go to HDMI now for my transmission and involve my Fury or my Moome box with RGB to component transcoder box just to be using HDMI, since my set's HDMI stinks so much and I have to transcode everything to component to get that great pic my set is famous for. I only use that train of transmission for playing upconverted DVDs, which is my system's only need for HMDI and does still happen, but only occasionally and very few and far between.

No Michael, I have not tried it yet on my sys. I have been so happy with component only transmission that the only experience I have really had with the Darblet so far is on their sets in their hotel room at CES, all of which were small digital flat screens. And on flat screens of course it helps. Didn't have any idea that it would help the CRT format even more! Thank you, barrelbelly, your review is an eye opener!

Before this weekend is out, I will definitely try it out and get back to y'all!

wink.gif

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post #4821 of 4830 Old 03-17-2014, 07:55 AM
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I've been contemplating getting one. I might wait a little longer, but if I get one I'll get it from you Bob.

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
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post #4822 of 4830 Old 03-18-2014, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

I've been contemplating getting one. I might wait a little longer, but if I get one I'll get it from you Bob.

superleo:
There is a scene in the Movie Sabrina where Young Larrabee's Fianee tells Harrison Ford..."Don't think about it Linus...go do it". Meaning get your behind over to Paris and get Sabrina Now. Well Darbee is Sabrina for anyone that has a big screen CRT rear projection system. If you have already tweaked it into submission and harnessed it's power as Bob has taught you. Then Darbee will open up a whole new dimension of tweaking opportunities without even opening up the "beast". It allows you to optimize an already excellent image to a level where it looks "perfect to your eyes". It is absolutely uncanny how it can take an image that you erstwhile thought was as good as it gets. And improve it tremendously. And I have discovered that it does this with greater effect with my Hitachi CRT than any of my flat panel LED/LCDs. Maybe it is because CRT has so much more user flexibility in the color and other adjustment registers. But my experience has been that Darbee allows me to personalize a calibrated image to an unprecedented level of personal preference to my eyes. And without adding any harmful artifacts. I'll tall you like Lastbutnotleast advised me on the Darbee thread last Summer. I think you will like it a lot.

And Bob, I'm sure I will buy 1-2 more in the future for different uses. I'll def throw the business your way. Because I want to eventually add one in my gaming PC signal chain. Outside of my passion for HD movies...I comment a lot on the Gaming threads (HTPC & Xbox). What I have observed a lot lately (especially with the new consoles), is that the graphic improvements (other than FPS) seems really irrelevant in most cases. My Xbox 360 and Nintendo WiiU with Darbee settings at 45%-60% in game mode, looks as good or better on the Hitachi as my fully loaded Gaming PC on full settings (1080p 60FPS) with a very high quality 24" Dell monitor that is capable of higher resolutions than 1080p. IMO many people would be happier spending $200-$300 on a Darblet in their gaming signal chain. Because it will improve things even better than just adding a new under optimized console.
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post #4823 of 4830 Old 05-06-2014, 07:51 AM
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Hi everyone,

   I have a 51f59a and have really enjoyed it and it is still going strong. We have recently bought an xbox one which uses hdmi only with either 1080p or 720p. The problem I am having is what I think is called overscan. The picture from the Xbox is about 1 - 2" too big for the Hitachi screen. Is this something I can adjust in the TV's service menu, if so what and where would the settings be?

 Thanks for all of the tweaks and posts over the years on these RPTVs!!

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post #4824 of 4830 Old 05-06-2014, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCanuck View Post
 

Hi everyone,

   I have a 51f59a and have really enjoyed it and it is still going strong. We have recently bought an xbox one which uses hdmi only with either 1080p or 720p. The problem I am having is what I think is called overscan. The picture from the Xbox is about 1 - 2" too big for the Hitachi screen. Is this something I can adjust in the TV's service menu, if so what and where would the settings be?

 Thanks for all of the tweaks and posts over the years on these RPTVs!!


I posted this and then started digging into the previous posts. I see that there might be 2 pots on the motherboard, H and V to hopefully scale down the image ? I assume these pots will affect all inputs?   I don't want to start messing with things since I am still getting a great picture.

FYI on those previous Netflix posts, netflix has settings on their website for each user. When logged into their site you can set what output you want to always receive. HD or standard and stereo or 5.1 I believe. This might improve the PQ they are streaming to you.

 

Cheers!

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post #4825 of 4830 Old 05-06-2014, 10:41 AM
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Yes, those pots will affect all inputs, and will COMPLETELY mess up your convergence. The only way to safely and easily eliminate the overscan is with some sort of external processor. Otherwise, you're looking at the "shimming mod" and other procedures which are probably more than you're bargaining for.


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post #4826 of 4830 Old 05-07-2014, 11:14 AM
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be sure to very carefully mark your starting point on each of those pots before you change anything, you may want to come back to them, and exactly. Once you change the sizing the geometry and convergence on the picture both get hosed. straight lines are no longer straight they are curved, parallel lines no longer parallel. It takes a lot of work to get it back to where it was, which I'll be glad to coach you on if you wish even if just by Phone.

PS - Thanks Michael, I noticed your response just AFTER I had done mine!

wink.gif

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post #4827 of 4830 Old 05-07-2014, 05:55 PM
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thanks for the feedback. I am leaning toward getting a HDfury device of some sort to scale it down. I'll let you know how I make out.:)

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post #4828 of 4830 Old 05-08-2014, 08:17 AM
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The Fury devices will not allow you to "scale it down". You need a processor for that, like a Lumagen or DVDO. The Fury's transcode only, the earlier ones from DVI or HDMI to component or RGB, the latest one does that too but also can change 1080p to 1080i for you. For reducing your pic's overdone sizing - what we call overscan - to what it always shoulda been outa the box, you will need a processor, not a transcoder. Or do what we have done - reduce your height and width to the appropriate size with those 2 little pots and correct all the hosing caused in your pic by doing that.

This massive amount of correction in the sm needs to happen whenever you change the sizing, whether just in the sm or by doing the shimming op and then correcting in the sm. I specialize in it and am a master at it, certain DIYers on this thread have mastered it also, but either way you do it, it has a monster learning curve attached to it and if your time is valuable you might want one of us to handle it for you.

I am not sure which processors will do both transcoding and resizing, but I am sure some do. Or if your AVR transcodes from HDMI to component internally, you won't need a Fury for that.

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post #4829 of 4830 Old 05-29-2014, 04:11 AM
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I am going to be in Vegas this weekend for a seminar. Monday after the seminar is my only free day at present and I fly out Monday night, tho changes to that could be arranged.

Let me know if you'd like to get together and show off your system -

b

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post #4830 of 4830 Old 09-05-2014, 10:41 AM
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I have a 51F59A TV and the screen has a pink tint to it including the OSD.

Gimme some hot tips.

Edit: Got it. Turned the green pot. Things are swell!

Last edited by Aafter; 09-05-2014 at 12:10 PM.
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Reply Rear Projection Units

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