Hitachi 51/57/65F59A CRT RPTV Tweaks Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 4830 Old 02-08-2007, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KirbyisKing View Post

Hey JWebb just wanted to say Thanks for the awesome fix on the HDMI! Second, my focus is just slightly out. Can you please tell me how to adjust, where this wingnut is and what a good dvd to do it on is? Thanks for any help buddy.


You're welcome!

Oh boy....focus...

Well, I AM NOT A TECH!!!! I just talk like one here sometimes .

All knowledge I have obtained on these sets was gleaned from others here @ the AVS Forum (Mr Bob, Lee Bailey and several others) as well as some learn-by-doing/trial and error tweaks to my last CRT RPTV (Hit 43UWX10B....R.I.P). So, don't take my word as gospel truth. I'd also ask/PM the guys I just mentioned (and maybe do a little thread searching, too).

With that said, the focus on your F59 is dealt with in 2 ways. "Electrostatic" focus and mechanical focus. The former is more of an overall focus adjustment done electronically via the "focus pak" inside the removable front service panel of the TV (behind the spkr grill) There is a small black box w/ 6 small pots on it. 3 are labelled "SCREEN". DO NOT TOUCH THESE!!!!! There are also 3 labelled "FOCUS"--one for each CRT gun (red/green/blue). These control the overall focus across the entire screen. An easy way to see what your focus is like is to bring up the 117pt convergence grid. You can move the focus pots to first de-focus each color's lines and then gently return them to as close as you can get to perfect.

Blue will ALWAYS appear a tad out of focus. This is intentional. A slightly defocus blue is needed for proper light output on CRT RPTVs. Green/Red should be as tight as possible.

Mechanical focus involves adjusting the focus of each gun at the lens assembly itself. On the F59s, each lens assy. has a focus adjustment rod that rotates the lens. It is held in place by a wingnut that must be loosened in order to adjust the rod. One on each lens assy., on the front (screen side) of the lens assys. I checked my mechanical focus against the same 117pt grid. But I only did this for red, which seemed a tad off on the left side of the screen. The red is still a very small amount "off", but less than before. And it actually is not noticable when just watching TV--only when looking at the convergence grid.

I have noticed that when moving the lens focus, the focus does not alter uniformally across the screen. Some parts become defocused more than/sooner/later than others.

Mr Bob has ways of correcting this and getting screen-wide focus about as tight as physically possible, and he generally does during all his calibrations. So he'd be better suited to go into further detail on this.


The F59 Service Manual has more detailed instructions on this procedure. I may recheck my set's focus after I get my set back from it's upcoming warranty service (replacing a blue gun with a slight manufacturing defect--nothing actually broken on the TV), if it looks like it needs it.

If opening up your TV and fiddling with things like focus is at all daunting to you, get a "real" tech on it. If a focus problem is causing you to have visible PQ issues, then it may fall under a Hitachi warranty service call. Way better off to have an authorized tech screw something up on your TV than you, as far as Hitachi would be concerned.

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post #92 of 4830 Old 02-08-2007, 03:18 PM
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Update on the HDMI fix,

I have watched about 10 DVDs since the HDMI fix and all is good except the image shift. I don't know if it's coincidence or what but the image shift is happening at least once every 20mins now. I hooked up my old Pio DV46a and the image still shifts every 20 mins or so. Is anyone else seeing an increase in shifting since the HDMI fix?
I might have just not noticed it as much because compared to the green screen and set turning off, the shift problem seemed insignificant.
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post #93 of 4830 Old 02-08-2007, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by djphil20 View Post

Update on the HDMI fix,

I have watched about 10 DVDs since the HDMI fix and all is good except the image shift. I don't know if it's coincidence or what but the image shift is happening at least once every 20mins now. I hooked up my old Pio DV46a and the image still shifts every 20 mins or so. Is anyone else seeing an increase in shifting since the HDMI fix?
I might have just not noticed it as much because compared to the green screen and set turning off, the shift problem seemed insignificant.

Probably the last thing you want to do, considering the previous HDMI problems you've had and the time it took to get addressed, but I'd consider contacting Hitachi again.

As I've stated here before, the image shift occurs so infrequently for me (both before and after applying the "fix") that I'm momentarily surprised if and/or when it does. Then again, I never had a screen freakout/power off occur with my HDMI DVD player prior to the "fix". Just did it to mine to make it current, software-wise.

As stated before, the shift happens (although I haven't actually counted) maybe once every 5-6 DVDs watched. And if it happens, it's only once per disc. And never at the "same time".

Gotta ask....is this happening with store-bought discs/rentals, copied DVDs or both?

Every 20 minutes makes me think there's an issue somewhere in your setup.

Come to think of it, since it's likely that the us complainers here @ the AVS Forum may have had a major hand in getting Hitachi on this in the first place, maybe another group phone/email assault on their service dept regarding the HDMI image shift is in order. If it truly is something that can be fixed in the F59 software like the previous solution, then we all could be the proverbial bug in Hitachi's ear that gets their engineering dept. on the case.

The squeaky wheel will certainly get greased eventually.

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post #94 of 4830 Old 02-08-2007, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

Overscan adj is done via the horzontal/vertical size pots inside the front service access panel (behind the front spkr grill). Small white "philips head" pots.

Before doing this, however, read the following. Has to do w/ overscan vs. geometry. From a PM conversation I had w/ cavery aka Cory (who posted the convergence screen jigs on this thread). Sorry for the length---a lot has to do w/ using the screen jigs--but has info you should read first before tweaking your set's overscan.



It is possible that your set came from the factory with more overscan than the factory standard. But overscan adj can and likely will affect geometry. Geometry can be corrected w/o a screen jig---by eyeballing it and/or using an outside generated pattern (Mr Bob does it this way during calibrations).

I find that the factory standard overscan settings work for me fine. I used the overscan reset technique mentioned above after I had a jig printed. I'd had some geomtry issues after doing an overscan adj some time ago. Now my 51 is back to "factory specs" for overscan/geometry. In fact, I think my set may have had more overscan OOB than it does now. I might be losing 1/8 on an inch on the left and right sides at most. Most this cuts off for me is occasionally a small portion of a network ID bug--and even then it usually doesn't. ESPN bottom screen info, for example, is all visible.

I have the 57 and noticed part of some words being cut off on the bottom of the screen in one of my games, but these directions sound so difficult I may just have to get used to it. I've only noticed it in one game in 16:9 and always when using 4:3 expanded, but with that aspect there will be overscan no matter what, right? I've never opened this or any TV before. I thought I'd be able to adjust it through the settings. I don't know what pots or jigs are. I'm afraid I'd mess something up if I opened it. But I don't want to pay half the price of the TV for someone else to do it.

I know I've used my TV for well over 200 hours now and besides the overscan it's been perfect. My contrast is at 25% (from Lee Bailey's settings) and I haven't seen any burn in yet. I'm only using the TV for 480i/480p gaming with component cables and my VCR with composite. I don't have an antenna, cable, or satellite on it. I haven't attempted 117 pt. convergence since I'm supposed to adjust overscan first and the picture already looks great with 480i and 480p sources. Should I still attempt to do some tweaking?
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post #95 of 4830 Old 02-08-2007, 06:07 PM
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does it matter that my brightness is on 60% and the contrast is on 60% too
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post #96 of 4830 Old 02-08-2007, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jeremy566 View Post

does it matter that my brightness is on 60% and the contrast is on 60% too

yes it matters, you should turn down your contrast. anything over 50% will probably burn/age your crt guns faster and may cause burn in if you watch a lot of news with tickers ect.. on the screen. with your contrast that high how can your eyes handle it? maybe something is wrong with your tv if your contrast has to be that high. maybe ask around here with mr. bob, lee bailey ect.. to see if they have any thoughts on why you have your contrast so high. i know every tv is different from the next as far as brightness, contrast color ect.. if i'm not mistaken. know one tv is exactly like the other i guess what i'm trying to say. say like on my tv i have contrast during the day at 33 were someone else with the same hitachi 57f59 may have there's set at 38. hope that helps
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post #97 of 4830 Old 02-08-2007, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

Probably the last thing you want to do, considering the previous HDMI problems you've had and the time it took to get addressed, but I'd consider contacting Hitachi again.

As I've stated here before, the image shift occurs so infrequently for me (both before and after applying the "fix") that I'm momentarily surprised if and/or when it does. Then again, I never had a screen freakout/power off occur with my HDMI DVD player prior to the "fix". Just did it to mine to make it current, software-wise.

As stated before, the shift happens (although I haven't actually counted) maybe once every 5-6 DVDs watched. And if it happens, it's only once per disc. And never at the "same time".

Gotta ask....is this happening with store-bought discs/rentals, copied DVDs or both?

Every 20 minutes makes me think there's an issue somewhere in your setup.

Come to think of it, since it's likely that the us complainers here @ the AVS Forum may have had a major hand in getting Hitachi on this in the first place, maybe another group phone/email assault on their service dept regarding the HDMI image shift is in order. If it truly is something that can be fixed in the F59 software like the previous solution, then we all could be the proverbial bug in Hitachi's ear that gets their engineering dept. on the case.

The squeaky wheel will certainly get greased eventually.


I did email Hitachi about the issue and they told me it was my DVD player, which is why I tried the Pio player (My Sony also did the same thing which is why I bought the Oppo).
So far, I have played all store bought DVDs with the exception of one rental. I am going to make a backup of one of my DVDs to see if it makes a difference. Also, I will reverse the HDMI fix just to see if it changes the frequency of the shifting.
I appreciate your input jwebb1970 and I will update everyone if anything comes to light.
Can I ask what DVD player are you using?
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post #98 of 4830 Old 02-09-2007, 05:34 AM
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I haven't watched any DVD's since the "fix". I get a shift watching DirecTV about every 20 minutes or so as well. I have decided to live with it, given the improved PQ, but I also think we need to bombard Hitachi with calls and e-mails on this one.
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post #99 of 4830 Old 02-09-2007, 06:30 AM
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I don't have a DVD player hooked up to my television yet but will probably buy one this weekend. I get the image shift through HDMI on my SAT HD-PVR but it's pretty infrequent. I've only got it once in the last few days since putting in the HDMI fix.

I'll email Hitachi about it today just to add some fuel to this issue on their end.
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post #100 of 4830 Old 02-09-2007, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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djphil20,

I use the Sony DVP-NS75H DVD player via HDMI.

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post #101 of 4830 Old 02-09-2007, 11:39 AM
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so should i put my contrast down and the brightness up
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post #102 of 4830 Old 02-09-2007, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy566 View Post

so should i put my contrast down and the brightness up


Yes. Brightness is not the phosphor "torch" that Contrast is.

My Contrast lurks around the high 20's-low 30's on all inputs used. Brightness, depending on the input source/time of day can creep up into the lower 60's at most.

Lower Contrast also helps in achieveing overall improved PQ as well as staving off burn-in.

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post #103 of 4830 Old 02-09-2007, 03:37 PM
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OK, another update and some interesting results:

I played backups of 4 of my DVDs, the same ones that I was having the shift issue with, and guess what? No shifting at all. I guess it must be HCDP related.
Next, I will reverse the HDMI fix and see what happens. It might be a couple of days as my wife is about ready to kick my butt for interrupting her spanish soaps for my "silly tests".
hasta la vista!
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post #104 of 4830 Old 02-09-2007, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by djphil20 View Post

OK, another update and some interesting results:

I played backups of 4 of my DVDs, the same ones that I was having the shift issue with, and guess what? No shifting at all. I guess it must be HCDP related.
Next, I will reverse the HDMI fix and see what happens. It might be a couple of days as my wife is about ready to kick my butt for interrupting her spanish soaps for my "silly tests".
hasta la vista!

Yeah but I get the shift and don't even have a DVD player hooked up to this tv yet. It happens with my Satellite HD-PVR outputting HDMI to the television.
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post #105 of 4830 Old 02-09-2007, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah but I get the shift and don't even have a DVD player hooked up to this tv yet. It happens with my Satellite HD-PVR outputting HDMI to the television.

Isn't some form of HDCP encoded into broadcast HD signals, too? Would think it would be an issue if trying to run a digital video signal (i.e. via HDMI) into some sort of outboard recording device like a DVD recorder (not a DVR, however) to prevent the dreaded piracy of HD digital video.

Don't know, but I have assumed up 'til now that the image shift on DVD had something to do with this (not a Hitachi-specific problem).

Or it may just be the old "no industry standards for HDMI" problem. SInce I run my HD-DVR/cable box via component, I've never had a shift on that.

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post #106 of 4830 Old 02-09-2007, 05:00 PM
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Just picked up a 51F59A from BB yesterday...a few concerns.

1) I can't find any of these settings:

Nevermind..I found those settings in the SM.


2) Half of my screen seems to be affected by a reddish tint, almost split right down the vertical middle of the screen. Is this something a service menu tweak can fix? I've already contacted our local Hitachi Auth repair center and they can fix it for free under warranty, but they aren't sure yet what's causing it. They suggested I push on the screen a bit to see if the lens' are separated, that didn't seem to help any.
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post #107 of 4830 Old 02-09-2007, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekari View Post

Just picked up a 51F59A from BB yesterday...a few concerns.

1) I can't find any of these settings:

Nevermind..I found those settings in the SM.


2) Half of my screen seems to be affected by a reddish tint, almost split right down the vertical middle of the screen. Is this something a service menu tweak can fix? I've already contacted our local Hitachi Auth repair center and they can fix it for free under warranty, but they aren't sure yet what's causing it. They suggested I push on the screen a bit to see if the lens' are separated, that didn't seem to help any.

have you tried the magic focus button on the tv to see if that helps with the reddish tint? (make sure the tv has warmed up for at least 30 minutes first) if that doesn't help maybe then the tech will have to adjust your red crt gun.
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post #108 of 4830 Old 02-10-2007, 05:44 AM
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Yes...it sounds as though it is a 'lens striping' fix. The left half of my screen is reddish...the right half is bluish...

Basically think of the left side using a 'Warm' color present, while the right side is using a 'Cool' color preset.

I'm assuming this will fall under warranty service. I can't imagine Hitachi wants their TVs having schizophrenia with their color temps.
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post #109 of 4830 Old 02-12-2007, 10:36 AM
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Hey guys - I thought I'd post this under the tweaks thread since it's somewhat related. I'm wondering what resolution you all would recommend for gaming on this particular set. I have my 360 set at 1080i and my PS3 runs at both 720p and 1080i (depending on what the game supports). I have read quite a few posts that say that 720p is the better of the two for gaming but I'd take the views of the board members around here over those of some of the "knuckleheads" on gaming boards. Particularily since we're all talking about the same television.
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post #110 of 4830 Old 02-12-2007, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys - I thought I'd post this under the tweaks thread since it's somewhat related. I'm wondering what resolution you all would recommend for gaming on this particular set. I have my 360 set at 1080i and my PS3 runs at both 720p and 1080i (depending on what the game supports). I have read quite a few posts that say that 720p is the better of the two for gaming but I'd take the views of the board members around here over those of some of the "knuckleheads" on gaming boards. Particularily since we're all talking about the same television.


Run 'em both @ 1080i. It's your TV's native resolution. Does the PS3 have a "global" resolution function? If so, set it @ 1080i. If it's game-dependent, than some PS3 stuff will obviously output 720p and then your set will have to convert it.

May be wrong, but I think the opinion of "720p is better for games" patially has to do with the abundance of 720p native dsplays out there. 720p is often considered "better" for fast-motion HD video (sports, games,etc), but if the PS3 can output 1080i all the time, set it that way.

Often sports in HD @ 1080i gets those who complain about "pixellation" and other picture artifacts. CBS's HD NFL coverage, for example, is often guilty of this. However, it seems that it looks better for some people than others, so an issue @ the broadcast source (OTA signal compression, satellite compression, etc) may play just as big a part as the resolution used.

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post #111 of 4830 Old 02-12-2007, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

Run 'em both @ 1080i. It's your TV's native resolution. Does the PS3 have a "global" resolution function? If so, set it @ 1080i. If it's game-dependent, than some PS3 stuff will obviously output 720p and then your set will have to convert it.

Thanks JWebb - that's what I've been doing up to this point. I've been reading recent stuff that claims that fast moving items (such as games) should run at 720p and that an interlaced signal was was not as ideal - so, I started to second guess my settings.
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post #112 of 4830 Old 02-13-2007, 04:40 PM
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I watched five DVD's over the weekend. Only on the last one was there a shift and it was very subtle a couple of times near the end.

However, while watching DirecTV, I get it once every five minutes or so NORMALLY WHEN ON AN HD CHANNEL SHOWING A COMMERCIAL OR PROGRAM IN SD. The shifts are much more infrequent during HD programming but still there. Annoying though.
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post #113 of 4830 Old 02-13-2007, 04:49 PM
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I sent an email to Hitachi support and they told me to call for a service rep. I called for a service rep and they said they've never heard of this problem and there may be something wrong with the HDMI inputs and to call for a local technician to come out and look at it all under warranty. I know that the service rep that comes out isn't going to be able to do anything as the shifting only happens once during an evening of tv so really what is he going to do? I'm disappointed in this problem that appears to affect a lot of people owning this television and Hitachi is apparently not even acknowledging a problem.
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post #114 of 4830 Old 02-14-2007, 05:01 AM
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Update on my shifting issue:

Those who don't know, I was getting the shift issue every 20 mins or so on 4 retail DVDs, but not on 4 backups of the same DVDs. This seemed to happen after I did the HDMI fix.
Well, it turns out that it was just those 4 DVDs (Star Trek movies 6-9).
Over the weekend, I watched 4 netflix and 1 retail DVD and the shifting only happened once. So I guess maybe some DVDs are not mastered correctly or the HDCP is not implemented right which causes the shifting.
I never did reverse the HDMI fix to see if that made a difference, but I did re-watch Star trek VI and I got the shifting every 20 mins.
I sent an email to Hitachi with all the details this morning, maybe they can shed some light on the situation.
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post #115 of 4830 Old 02-14-2007, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Still think that the HDMI shifting may have more to do w/ just HDMI itself than the F59s. Other TVs have, according to their owners, had HDMI image shift as well.

With no real industry standards in place for HDMI (at least that's what I read anyway), it just seems more likely that it's some sort of digital issue. Perhaps having to do with digital copy protection? In the case of DVD, that would seem logical, considering djphil20's experience with certain Star Trek discs (may have issues getting along with HDMI due to copy protect/lack of---depending on when they were manufactured). Since a digital out would be the preferred source of choice for a video pirate (although in the real world wouldn't you just copy a DVD on a computer?), it makes sense to me that the digital out would be the source of any copy-protect related bugs. Without any real standards in place, a DVD player/HD set-top box could conceivably not get along with virtually any digital input out there--not just a Htachi's

That being said, I still suggest that everyone with the problem continue to hassle Hitachi about it. It might be something a software fix could address. I remember a time not that long ago when a call to Hitachi Service regarding the bigger HDMI problem often got a confused response from the company ("We've never heard of a problem with the F59's HDMI...")

I think the flood of calls/emails they got from us here @ the AVS Forum was very instrumental in that fix. Lightning could very well strike twice with this one.

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post #116 of 4830 Old 02-14-2007, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

Yes. Brightness is not the phosphor "torch" that Contrast is.

My Contrast lurks around the high 20's-low 30's on all inputs used. Brightness, depending on the input source/time of day can creep up into the lower 60's at most.

Lower Contrast also helps in achieveing overall improved PQ as well as staving off burn-in.

Just want to ad my additional comments to Jwebb's: My Contrast is set to 23 and my brightness is 61. For my set, it's the optimal settings. The point just above where black crush will occur on 99% of material (with the rare 1 perent being too bright.)

I say try and get contrast as low as you can stand. The two benefits of lower the contrast are: reduced electricity consumption (Saves money and reduces heat the tv expels into the room) AND it helps in silk screen effect. The lower the contrast level, the less SSE will reveal its ugly head (assuming you can perceive it.) I was initially bothered by SSE and was pushing the contrast all over the place... until I realized upping the contrast ratio only magnifies the problem.
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post #117 of 4830 Old 02-14-2007, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul33993 View Post

Just want to ad my additional comments to Jwebb's: My Contrast is set to 23 and my brightness is 61. For my set, it's the optimal settings. The point just above where black crush will occur on 99% of material (with the rare 1 perent being too bright.)

I say try and get contrast as low as you can stand. The two benefits of lower the contrast are: reduced electricity consumption (Saves money and reduces heat the tv expels into the room) AND it helps in silk screen effect. The lower the contrast level, the less SSE will reveal its ugly head (assuming you can perceive it.) I was initially bothered by SSE and was pushing the contrast all over the place... until I realized upping the contrast ratio only magnifies the problem.


Yes, definitely.

Keeping contrast safely low also keeps your grayscale linear, your convergence tight, and your focus from blooming.

Besides the more obvious perks of extending CRT life and lowering the chances of screenburn.



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post #118 of 4830 Old 02-14-2007, 10:39 AM
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Hi All:

I ordered a 51F710 refurb which will arrive on Saturday. Has anyone experimented with the tweaks for the new F series on the slightly older sets (mostly calibration)?
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post #119 of 4830 Old 02-14-2007, 12:03 PM
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[quote=jwebb1970]Still think that the HDMI shifting may have more to do w/ just HDMI itself than the F59s. Other TVs have, according to their owners, had HDMI image shift as well.

I have seen probably thousands of other TV's in stores hooked up to HDMI and have NEVER witnessed this problem in person.
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post #120 of 4830 Old 02-14-2007, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote=BlackKnightInNC]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

Still think that the HDMI shifting may have more to do w/ just HDMI itself than the F59s. Other TVs have, according to their owners, had HDMI image shift as well.

I have seen probably thousands of other TV's in stores hooked up to HDMI and have NEVER witnessed this problem in person.


As far as the image shift issue, I've seen this mentioned on the DVD player threads for both the Sony NS75H (and it's predecessor) as well as a very occassional mention from some Oppo, LG and (I believe) Samsung users.

None of them using an F59 as their display.

In fact, came across a post today from an owner of an Oppo 971H and a Sony KDFE42A10 that posted pictures of that combo's pink/green HDMI-related screens. Just like the ones F59 users were experiencing via HDMI prior to it getting dealt with.

If you want to see what various kinds of HDMI weirdness that owners of virtually every brand of HDTV can and do occasionally experience, cruise over to the recently created HDMI Q&A board.

HDMI wackyness is not exclusive to Hitachi HDTVs. HDMI technology is obviously still full of bugs of some sort or another. Most likely can all be traced to HDCP.

See, it's the anti-piracy crowd's fault!

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