DLP Lamp Life - Do's/Dont's? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 02-07-2007, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I just took delivery of my new Mitsubishi WD-65731 TV.

I have a question regarding lamp life, so please do read on!

I recalled reading on this forum back when I was looking at buying a set when I bought my CRT 2 yrs. ago deciding to wait and let DLP mature some more. I remember someone posting, or for that matter the general consensus in the forum at that time for DLP's to increase bulb life, and likely one of the key reasons many people don't get the proper life out of their bulbs was that they are constantly shutting the set off and on.
In this forum it was said that a DLP should be treated like a home theater screen. As in, it should be turned on only when needed, and the lamp should be allowed to "warm up" to full temp for optimal picture, much like a CRT and it's phosphors, and then simply watched however long you want, then shut off.

IE. not turning it off and on in succession throught the day.

I think the most important part stated comes next, and that is...
it should be allowed to fully cool before being turned back on, as this causes undue stress on the filament in the bulb.

Now is this still correct as it was 2 yrs. ago, or has this changed?
If so, any finer points I should know about, like proper lamp cool down time, before turning back on, etc..

Also I see people talk about putting 100 hours on their bulb before getting calibrated, why is that?
Does the light output become more stable as it's allowed to age?
My views derived from observation of light sources, correct me if I'm wrong, seem to point out that a bulb either works or doesn't, it doesn't "age" or get "darker" except for fluorescent tubes, but tungsten, halogen, etc.. I have never seen these in uses around my house, car, etc.. "age". Is that correct? Does the lamp in a DLP output the same amount of light from day one till it croaks? I have heard TV techs say otherwise, and I got to thinking about it and came up with the above "real world" comparison, and then realized it could very well be bogus.

I did try searching for this, but had no luck the search engine on this site doesn't seem to like me much. Even tried boolean, quotes, etc..
I have an excellent memory and if I read it, than it was here somewhere least I think it was?

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post #2 of 17 Old 02-09-2007, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I actually found a reference in the 731 owners thread touching on this issue, but still doesn't quite answer all my questions. Any help would be much appreciated, and as always keep up the good work forum, and forum members. What a great place we have here.

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post #3 of 17 Old 02-09-2007, 12:31 PM
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Article from: HDTV MAGAZINE

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles...g_your_hdt.php


" You have one of the new lamp-based microdisplays such as DLP, LCoS, SXRD, D-ILA or LCD it will definitely pay off to learn how to extend your lamp life. Lamp life varies by manufacturer design based on the application of the product and varies anywhere from 2000 to 8000 hours. Lamp replacements run from $200-$500 but most consumer rear projection displays are in the $200-$300 range and also lean more towards longer rather than shorter life design. The good news here is unlike any other display you have owned you can bring these back to brand new performance by simply replacing the lamp.

Lamp replacement is generally easy and comes in the form of a cartridge. It is considered a consumer replaceable device and does not require a technician to perform. Most manufacturers will provide a direct replacement when under warranty. Should you decide to replace the lamp yourself, do not touch the face or glass of the lamp in the cartridge. Like a halogen lamp, body oils on these surfaces will cause hot spots on the lamp surface and cause the lamp to explode or crack. Please check your owner's manual for further replacement details for your product.

While I prefer writing definitive articles, this will not be one of them. The following information represents what the industry has experienced and represented over the last decade. In two aspects that have been considered critical for lamp life, Toshiba has taken the opposite stance and I am unable to confirm if they are right. Nevertheless, that is how their products operate and also what they officially recommend so it has been included since not following their policy would also prevent you from having any legitimate claim on premature Toshiba lamp failure.

Heavy Vibration: Kids jumping up and down on your floor, heavy footsteps and excessive volume from home theater system subwoofers can cause the display, and ultimately the lamp, to vibrate, inducing an instant failure.

Keep Power Cycles to a Minimum: Lamps are arc based and turning them on, called striking the lamp, is the most destructive process and plays one of the biggest roles in lamp life deterioration. Try to keep this at 2-3 times per day at the most. Rather than turn it off for only a few hours, it is best to leave it on. This is the same recommendation given for our old CRT technology.

Proper Ventilation: Be careful of applications where the product is buried in an enclosed environment without good ventilation. Air movement is essential for the exchange of outgoing warm air with incoming cool air.

Keep Filters Clean: Not all products have filters. If they do, replacing them should be covered in the owner's manual and you must maintain them to prolong lamp life, keep light path cooling at peak efficiency and, with LCD projection, prevent debris from entering the light path degrading image performance.

Power Down Cycles: Most displays feature a 10-60 second grace period or delay when initiating a power down sequence. This prevents unnecessary striking of the lamp to safeguard against unintentional power down commands. Some manufacturers, like Toshiba, have this as a menu item called "Instant Startup". Testing such a feature is easy: With the display on, press the power button. Within 10 seconds press power again and within a few moments the picture should return. If you find yourself waiting a minute or longer, or the power on command is being ignored, then the lamp was turned off and will not be turned on again until the sequence has completed. This could be due to an older display, in which case there is no solution, or like the Toshiba you may have a menu item that addresses this.

AC Surge Suppressor: If there is anything with a motor that is plugged into the same AC outlet, or on an outlet on the same circuit, it will generate spikes which can upset the ballast in the TV, causing a burst of additional current to the lamp. Some people have reported lamps failing as window AC units or vacuum cleaners are turned on! The solution is to install a surge suppressor. If you also want to protect against lightning, you should read AC Surge/Lightning Suppressors.

Loss of AC power: You should not unplug or remove AC power from the unit to turn it off. Turning off requires a typical 2 minute process to cool the lamp. Many auxiliary products, such as a cable box or satellite receiver, offer a switched AC outlet to "conveniently" turn your TV on and off - don't use it! If your electric company has problems maintaining the power while you are watching TV, then you need an uninterrupted power supply (UPS), like you would use for a computer.

Toshiba engineering, on the other hand, claims this process is not necessary and that their products do not provide a cool down process; when the lamp turns off so does the fan.

Power Settings: Many displays offer two power levels for the lamp. If you want to increase lamp life, set it for low power at the expense of light output and remember: Lamp based rear projection displays are brighter than necessary in nearly all cases, so this is not much of a penalty and slightly improves black levels. As the lamp ages, light output will drop and you will notice it does not seem to be as bright as it once was. When this happens, go back in the menu and switch it to high power. Ordering a replacement lamp at this time is not a bad idea. Light output will continue to drop, and at this point in the life cycle it will also start to change color, creating a yellowish overcast most evident in the whites. Once you notice that, replace it. As a videophile, be aware that you will lose 25% of your light output within the first 500 hours and by the time the lamp turns yellow, you are well past a loss of 75%. Replacing the lamp well before it has reached that point is in your performance imaging interest.

Again, Toshiba engineering has a differing view: They recommend you disregard the above and set the display for the high power setting because the lamp was designed and life span maximized for the higher power setting. While counterintuitive to what one would expect, that is exactly what Toshiba engineering claims based on comparisons of televisions owned by consumers and the televisions on display at the store, which run all day long in high power mode, receive one power cycle per day, and in some cases none. Toshiba found that dealer demo displays could get up to 7000-8000 hours out of a lamp. It is noteworthy that the same claim has been made for years with ordinary incandescent light bulbs used with a dimmer. "
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post #4 of 17 Old 02-09-2007, 03:09 PM
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Don't put your tongue on the lamp when it's lit. You may experience some pain.
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post #5 of 17 Old 02-09-2007, 04:59 PM
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I own a toshiba dlp and I can definitely say that the fan will continue to run for several minutes after the tv has been shut off.
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post #6 of 17 Old 02-09-2007, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrow_69 View Post

I own a toshiba dlp and I can definitely say that the fan will continue to run for several minutes after the tv has been shut off.


Only when you have Quick Restart feature on. If not, the fan shuts off with the lamp immediately on power down.

Toshiba 62MX195 1080p DLP w/ Cablecard
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post #7 of 17 Old 02-09-2007, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominica View Post

Article from: HDTV MAGAZINE

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles...g_your_hdt.php

That made things more confusing... thanks to Toshiba engineers
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post #8 of 17 Old 02-10-2007, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhue View Post

Don't put your tongue on the lamp when it's lit. You may experience some pain.

But I thought that was the only way to get good picture!
I mean it hurt, but when I tried that it worked great got great black levels. :-)

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post #9 of 17 Old 02-10-2007, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominica View Post

Article from: HDTV MAGAZINE

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles...g_your_hdt.php

That was extremely useful information, more than I could have ever asked for. I love it, thx.

As a matter of fact, I pretty much had already been doing that. But in lieu of the article I went to dinner last night and had the TV on, and just left it on, stuck it on a music channel /w the DTV DVR ScreenSaver on.

What I'm confused about though is the power level for the lamp, I was of the understanding that this is a service menu option, not a user option, is this correct?
Also I though that this was something that by default was set to low, so then it says Toshiba found that all the display models were running at full blast so they reccomended that.
Well how could that be if it's a svc. command, and the default is set to "Low", how could this be?

Now if they are talking about the "Brilliant", "Natural" etc.. setting in the user menu, then that makes more sense, as the default is nuclear blazing, but that still leaves the question of the service menu?

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"Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it."
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post #10 of 17 Old 02-10-2007, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y_not View Post

That was extremely useful information, more than I could have ever asked for. I love it, thx.

As a matter of fact, I pretty much had already been doing that. But in lieu of the article I went to dinner last night and had the TV on, and just left it on, stuck it on a music channel /w the DTV DVR ScreenSaver on.

What I'm confused about though is the power level for the lamp, I was of the understanding that this is a service menu option, not a user option, is this correct?
Also I though that this was something that by default was set to low, so then it says Toshiba found that all the display models were running at full blast so they reccomended that.
Well how could that be if it's a svc. command, and the default is set to "Low", how could this be?

Now if they are talking about the "Brilliant", "Natural" etc.. setting in the user menu, then that makes more sense, as the default is nuclear blazing, but that still leaves the question of the service menu?


"Many displays offer two power levels for the lamp."

I.e. the Toshiba lamps are designed for 2 power settings which is user selectable in the display menu - not the service menu. Not all TVs have this feature.

Toshiba 62MX195 1080p DLP w/ Cablecard
Comcast Cable of New England
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post #11 of 17 Old 02-12-2007, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominica View Post

Article from: HDTV MAGAZINE
.....Light output will continue to drop, and at this point in the life cycle it will also start to change color, creating a yellowish overcast most evident in the whites. Once you notice that, replace it. As a videophile, be aware that you will lose 25% of your light output within the first 500 hours and by the time the lamp turns yellow, you are well past a loss of 75%. Replacing the lamp well before it has reached that point is in your performance imaging interest."

So is this why I hear people saying on the forums that they are going to wait 100hrs. before doing/"having done" a calibration?

Also, why do they get dimmer? I'm no lamp expert, but I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around that. The only thing I can think of is it's a gas, so as it becomes spent, more and more, it gets dimmer.

I also recall somebody getting there TV ISF'd and the guy that came out set the bulb to high instead of low brightness in the Svc. menu. He said it'd have no effect on it's life, makes sense after reading this. So should I do the same? Mine would be in a svc. menu if it's there.

I also read that you should run your TV in natural mode, not brilliant, or bright, etc.. as this will decrease the lamp life, as well as setting the contrast high. But then I have heard that contrast, and picture mode are all changes made after it leaves the bulb, IE. it has no effect on bulb life?

Thx for posting!!

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"Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it."
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post #12 of 17 Old 02-13-2007, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y_not View Post

So is this why I hear people saying on the forums that they are going to wait 100hrs. before doing/"having done" a calibration?

Also, why do they get dimmer? I'm no lamp expert, but I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around that. The only thing I can think of is it's a gas, so as it becomes spent, more and more, it gets dimmer.

I'm no expert in lamps, but they're designed to operate at a specific temperature and specific pressure to maintain the arc across the gap. Every time you turn the set on, the voltage used to start the lamp has to be higher than normal since the lamp is cool and harder to generate the arc. This higher voltage has an impact on the materials of the gap electrodes and a small amount of material can be consumed at this time. Over time the effect of this startup process will eventually consume enough material making the gap non-ideal and harder to start. That's the main reason the light output gradually decreases and they eventually fail. Once the lamp starts the system is designed to back the voltage back down to maintaint the ideal temp/pressure and light output.

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Originally Posted by y_not View Post

I also recall somebody getting there TV ISF'd and the guy that came out set the bulb to high instead of low brightness in the Svc. menu. He said it'd have no effect on it's life, makes sense after reading this. So should I do the same? Mine would be in a svc. menu if it's there.

I also read that you should run your TV in natural mode, not brilliant, or bright, etc.. as this will decrease the lamp life, as well as setting the contrast high. But then I have heard that contrast, and picture mode are all changes made after it leaves the bulb, IE. it has no effect on bulb life?

The lamps are designed to support dual brightness. It's not a TV function alone. As per above, the temperature/pressure needs to be properly maintained. Dual brightness bulbs are designed to operate at different voltages for different temp/pressure ranges, and there's a user option in the display menu. Anything in a service menu would be dangerous to change and I would expect that manufacturers would not recommend doing so.

So obviously by running at the lower brightness level runs lower voltage and hence lower temp/pressure which means less stress on the bulb over it's life, and it would last longer. There have been non-scientific debates on the Toshiba lamps whether running them on low vs. high results in longer life which has been mainly driven by early lamp failures, but the science would point to lower brightness means longer life. I think even more important on extending lamp life is fewer on/off cycles.

Toshiba 62MX195 1080p DLP w/ Cablecard
Comcast Cable of New England
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post #13 of 17 Old 02-14-2007, 07:20 AM
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I had over 10,000 hours on first lamp. Replaced as it got dimmer.

TV is on for about 17 hours a day, lamp on low power, power conditioner on AC input. Brightness and contrast do not effect lamp brightness, only DLP chip mirror's on/off time.
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post #14 of 17 Old 06-17-2007, 08:08 AM
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Glad to hear you got 10000 hrs. It is encouraging since we usually just hear the horror stories.

I own the Toshiba 57HM167. Love this set. Will Dynamic Contrast or Static Gamma effect lamp life? I have heard some say that these settings will cause the lamp to burn brighter.

Thanks for a great forum!

Burned by Toshiba DLP...
Samsung LED FTW!
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post #15 of 17 Old 08-22-2011, 04:40 AM
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The HDTVMagazine link originally posted is outdated - the article can now be found here: http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles...crodisplay.php
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post #16 of 17 Old 08-22-2011, 05:19 AM
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Quote:


it should be allowed to fully cool before being turned back on, as this causes undue stress on the filament in the bulb.

I would disagree with that for the simple reason, letting it cool off completely causes another full up period as opposed to a partial period. The lamp is already warm, so it doesn't have the stress of going from room temperature to full on. Logic would dictate a half warm lamp would undergo less stress.
Some CRT's had filament current applied 24/7 to provide a faster warm up period. Keeping filaments warm seems to make sense if the device is powered up and down frequently as opposed to the device sitting days between usage.
Quote:


Also I see people talk about putting 100 hours on their bulb before getting calibrated, why is that?
Does the light output become more stable as it's allowed to age?

You pretty much answered your own question. The time period is at least 300 hours with 400 (or even 500, but that might be excessive) being a better period to wait as the output of the lamp will drop considerable!

What magredc5 posted might throw a curve in what I just said if these lamps need a 'cold' start to function properly.

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post #17 of 17 Old 08-22-2011, 06:15 AM
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Thanks for bumping this thread, some good info for us new DLP owners.............
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