AVS Forum banner

Saying No To Dlp

9K views 92 replies 46 participants last post by  videobruce 
#1 ·
Like a lot of people I too was swept along with the DLP euphoria and came close to buying one of those seductive Korean "1080p" DLP rear projection TVs. But I hesitated and stalled and now would not buy one. The Sony & JVC seem like more compelling value/performance.


Why buy a DLP when LCOS TVs with real 1080 3-chip designs are price matched to the DLPs - the DLPs that are still being made that is (a lot of manufacturers have dropped off the DLP bandwagon). Even HP who invented 'Wobulation' have quit DLP ? I have concerns of detail loss with horizontal movement on Wobulation TVs - not to mention that mosquito-swarm pixelation I see on "1080" DLPs.


If Sony & JVC hadn't came out with 1080 chips, Texas Instruments would still be palming off those horrible 720 chips on us. Now they still won't supply true 1080 chips to rear projection manufacturers. Given the number of brands that have dropped DLP, TI should be supplying RGB sets of true 1080 chips to match LCOS prices.
 
#3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIPHONIC /forum/post/0


Like a lot of people I too was swept along with the DLP euphoria and came close to buying one of those seductive Korean "1080p" DLP rear projection TVs. But I hesitated and stalled and now would not buy one. The Sony & JVC seem like more compelling value/performance.


Why buy a DLP when LCOS TVs with real 1080 3-chip designs are price matched to the DLPs - the DLPs that are still being made that is (a lot of manufacturers have dropped off the DLP bandwagon). Even HP who invented 'Wobulation' have quit DLP ? I have concerns of detail loss with horizontal movement on Wobulation TVs - not to mention that mosquito-swarm pixelation I see on "1080" DLPs.


If Sony & JVC hadn't came out with 1080 chips, Texas Instruments would still be palming off those horrible 720 chips on us. Now they still won't supply true 1080 chips to rear projection manufacturers. Given the number of brands that have dropped DLP, TI should be supplying RGB sets of true 1080 chips to match LCOS prices.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I wouldn't trade my Sammy DLP for the world.
 
#6 ·
LCOS TVs can be had for as cheaply as DLPs? Where?


I'd be interested in seeing where you could dig up a new 55" XBR2 shipped for $1600.


And if you can see a difference in detail between a "true" 1080p image and one that employs wobulation, given that everything else is equal, I'd be even more impressed with your abilities.
 
#7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 /forum/post/0


LCOS TVs can be had for as cheaply as DLPs? Where?


I'd be interested in seeing where you could dig up a new 55" XBR2 shipped for $1600.


And if you can see a difference in detail between a "true" 1080p image and one that employs wobulation, given that everything else is equal, I'd be even more impressed with your abilities.


You can get a JVC 52FA97 1080p LCOS for under $1400.
 
#11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 /forum/post/0


LCOS TVs can be had for as cheaply as DLPs? Where?


I'd be interested in seeing where you could dig up a new 55" XBR2 shipped for $1600.


And if you can see a difference in detail between a "true" 1080p image and one that employs wobulation, given that everything else is equal, I'd be even more impressed with your abilities.

There is not a 55XBR2 model.


Costco has the JVC 56" 1080P LCOS with stand for 1549.


That being said, on the average, DLP's are less expensive overall than SXRD/LCOS.


I agree that wobulation is not a factor in perceived 1080p capabilities. Wobulated DLP's can produce as much detail as other sources of 1080p.
 
#12 ·
I think that alot of the 2006 DLPs looks incredibly good.


I've been very impressed looking at them..


However, I see RBE quite easily.. ( I can usually spot it in under 10mins on most sets..)


The 3CCD Sonys never gave me this problem, but I found the PQ kind of lifeless in comparison.. not bad.. just not as "there"


Instead, I've gone with the Sony KDS-50a2000 SXRD.


I'm very happy with it, and at less than $2500 Cdn with stand.. a decent price for a 1080p set with wonderfull PQ.
 
#14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwiss /forum/post/0


. Wobulated DLP's can produce as much detail as other sources of 1080p.

Of course any dynamic resolution problems will be masked by motion


But I don't trust the 960-960 wobulation to be as good as fixed 1920. One analyst said this blurs horizontal motion ~ and it would if you think about it. Sequential presentation of the H pixels ? Isn't there enough flickering going on with that goofy six-color mechanical wheel and all ?


TI would have their own big 72" demo DLP at CES shows and it displayed smooth pictures but they wouldn't say what was inside it (three full 2meg chips ?)
 
#15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by vidguy_1 /forum/post/0


Instead, I've gone with the Sony KDS-50a2000 SXRD...less than $2500 Cdn with stand.. a decent price for a 1080p set with wonderfull PQ.

This is my thinking now too, the 60A2000 seems like the way to go at the moment. Howard Stringer is doing what it takes to keep Sony in the game. He must be dumping these below cost - think of the optical system in these Vs a 960x1080 single panel DLP. Seems all brands try to recover profits with those $5000 70" models.
 
#16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DIPHONIC /forum/post/0


This is my thinking now too, the 60A2000 seems like the way to go at the moment. Howard Stringer is doing what it takes to keep Sony in the game. He must be dumping these below cost - think of the optical system in these Vs a 960x1080 single panel DLP. Seems all brands try to recover profits with those $5000 70" models.

I've seen the sony's lcos and samsung dlps in electronic stores. I was considering one of the two.

using the user controls I calibrated the best I could in stores and determine DLP has better color definition.. it just pops out like a 3D effect.


As for the 960x1080 Wobulation vs lcos 1080p resolution.. well a lot of reviewers such as Cnet was concern by that but soon realize their concerns were unfounded.
 
#17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 /forum/post/0


...if you can see a difference in detail between a "true" 1080p image and one that employs wobulation, ...

Why buy 960-960 single chip TVs with oscillating mirrors and spinning mechanical color wheels when you can get three-panel true 1920 SXRD for the same price ?


What does it tell us when the inventor of 'Wobulation' - HP - pulls out of DLP ?


SHARP have also pulled out of RP as have PANASONIC and SONY (who had a Pro Cinema FP model before SXRD). RCA and LG might as well quit - if they haven't already - as nobody wants their crappy products. Are there any more that I've missed ?


With the Flat Panel surge of 2006 it was a bad year for the once promising DLP. Texas Instruments' greed didn't help with their refusal to supply true 2k chips for RP.
 
#18 ·
Diphonic, your thread seems to make sense if it is true that one chip can't handle the job properly. I have been asking myself the same question, but I don't understand enough about TB mechanics to know if, scientifically, the SXRD and LCOS are clearly mechanically better. I have viewed the 70 inch tvs and I seem to like the Mits and the Sony best. I have not had enough opportunity to view the JVC. The real price breaks are not in the Sony market, but in the JVC market. I also think that there are other factors besides the chip or chips used. Maybe I am wrong, but Mits seems to process the overall picture better except for color accuracy. It seems like the samsung has the best color accuracy. I am torn, but I am leaning toward the new JVC Pro series.
 
#19 ·
I purchased a 72 inch Toshiba DLP (72HM196) two weeks ago and can guarantee that you couldn't get anywhere close to the price with any LCOS set out there. The Sony 70 inch was 80% more and the JVC 70 inch D-ILA set was 50% more.


DLP is still the value leader in very large screens.
 
#22 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyArena /forum/post/0


In my mind, the issue is not totally the price. I think the issue is whether the LCOS and SXRD technology is better, regardless of the price. Can anyone really say the technology is clearly better? If so, why is it better?

Clearly its not about being better. HP has drop DLP for LCD flat panels... now who here will say LCDs produce better picture quality than DLP?

The same with CRT vs all new tech. CRTs is still the leader in picture quality but why have manufacturers pulled out from making CRTs?


When choosing a display picture quality is very important.. one reason why I bought the DLP.. but the other was connectivity.


Sony sxrd has very gimped inputs.. with samsung 2006 dlps you can use anything input with a 1080p source, not with sony's sxrd.. its only available via hdmi.
 
#24 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 /forum/post/0


LCOS TVs can be had for as cheaply as DLPs? Where?


I'd be interested in seeing where you could dig up a new 55" XBR2 shipped for $1600.


And if you can see a difference in detail between a "true" 1080p image and one that employs wobulation, given that everything else is equal, I'd be even more impressed with your abilities.

that's what I been askings myself when thinking about buying a 1080p DLP compared to buying a LCOS set. Can you tell the difference between the two?
 
#25 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckademic /forum/post/0


that's what I been askings myself when thinking about buying a 1080p DLP compared to buying a LCOS set. Can you tell the difference between the two?


DETAIL One debate we hoped to squelch with this test was whether DLP could match LCoS on image detail. Both sets are spec'd at the 1,920 x 1,080-pixel resolution that defines a 1080p display, but they deliver the image differently. LCoS TVs use microdisplay chips that have a discrete 1,920 x 1,080-pixel grid; all the pixels on the chip appear simultaneously on the screen. DLP currently achieves 1080p resolution using a technique called "wobulation": the pixels are split between two fields flashed up in rapid succession, each with half the total pixels.


As it turned out, the Sony was marginally better at resolving test patterns, but the HP actually scored a bit higher in the subjective apparent sharpness of the picture, demonstrated by its ability to resolve the fine brush strokes in the close-up of an old oil painting in an HDNet travel show on Madrid. We called it a draw: these stellar sets proved that wobulated DLP and LCoS can both deliver all the goods in today's 1080i signals.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/fea...p-vs-lcos.html
 
#26 ·

Quote:
Why buy 960-960 single chip TVs with oscillating mirrors and spinning mechanical color wheels when you can get three-panel true 1920 SXRD for the same price ?

Because any LCOS set that can be had for a comparable price to, say, a Samsung HL-S series DLP is NOT going to produce as good an image. A set's image processing abilities in areas other than how the set resolves 1080p would need to be sacrificed in an LCOS set in order to bring the price down to a level equal to that of the Samsung.


And again, I challenge you - or anyone - to point out just how they are seeing an ill effect created by wobulation at a normal viewing distance. You would have to be a robot for it to affect your experience.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top