The Official Sony 2007 KDS-(XX)A2020 [NO PRICE TALK] SXRD Owner's Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 09:53 AM
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Well,
I spent most of Friday setting up the TV as my computer monitor. Unfortunate that the PC input is restricted to 1024x768. I ended up getting an ATI X1050 graphics card to replace my old one. This was only about $100 and I needed an AGP cause my MB is quite old. Just trying to get it to work, nothing fancy.

The key as others have pointed out is getting the latest drivers off the ATI web site. Then, using powerstrip to tweak the display so it fills the screen. The end result is nothing short of amazing. The powerstrip settings I used were pointed out in this thread about a page back.

Only a couple funny gotcha's still biting me. I don't seem to be able to have the graphics card send the same desktop to both the VGA output and the HDMI output. So, my HDMI display on the TV is the primary Windows display, and then it continues on to the VGA display to the right of that. I may need to go into powerstrip and fix that, haven't checked yet.

Another funny result of this is that when the computer boots up before the powerstrip settings kick in, the TV tells me that I have "unsupported signals" on the HDMI input, and no picture is displayed This initially threw me for a loop cause my welcome screen was missing. I was finally able to search around in the blind till I got lucky with the mouse clicking and Windows booted, then the screen magically appeared. I then set the "welcome screen" off, and it comes up directly to the logon window. Since my username is pre-populated there, about 1 minute after I power the computer on, I just blindly hit "tab" then "enter" on the keyboard and then about 2 minutes later a miracle occurs and the Windows desktop appears.

Another funny thing is that about once every 10 minutes or so the screen flickers off/on really quickly. This doesn't happen with the other HDMI input (Tivo) so I assume that the video card is either not set exactly right, or this is the end result of just spending $100 on a video card.

If anyone knows how to just have Windows auto log me on please let me know. I don't want to take the thread too off course, as I'm sure this kind of info belongs more in the tweaks thread. I just wanted to let other owners out there know that it can be done.

RT
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post #542 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 10:42 AM
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I am thinking of buying this 60" tv. Is there a stand that can allow the whole TV to swivel from left to right? I currently have a mits 55" which is floorstanding on rollers and I am used to being able to move it in different directions. Thanks!
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post #543 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louky View Post

don't expect to go from "blah" to "blown away" just by changing to the cnet settings, they don't make that much difference.

Cnets settings are accurate but they have the sharpness set too low, Puting up a sharpness pattern shows that the sharpness at 50 (if you have detail enhancer and edge enhancer off) Softens the picture which is fine for sdtv but for hdtv your losing alot of detail. I have mine set to 80 which brings out the details.


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post #544 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by nick2003 View Post

Cnets settings are accurate but they have the sharpness set too low, Puting up a sharpness pattern shows that the sharpness at 50 (if you have detail enhancer and edge enhancer off) Softens the picture which is fine for sdtv but for hdtv your losing alot of detail. I have mine set to 80 which brings out the details.

(In my best Johnny Carson voice), I did not know that!

Knowing very little about how sharpness controls impact HD (as opposed to SD) signals and content, do you find much more artificial noise etc. as part of the "over-50 sharpness" package? Why not, for the sake of argument, go all the way to 100? Or is 80 around the threshhold?

See what I said about the tweaking? Back to the settings I go!

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post #545 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by powerknowledge View Post

(In my best Johnny Carson voice), I did not know that!

Knowing very little about how sharpness controls impact HD (as opposed to SD) signals and content, do you find much more artificial noise etc. as part of the "over-50 sharpness" package? Why not, for the sake of argument, go all the way to 100? Or is 80 around the threshhold?

See what I said about the tweaking? Back to the settings I go!

At 80 I notice no artificial noise, I actually did have it at 100 at one point and still might go back to 100 but I think I prefer it at 80 cause its a little more smooth looking. If you don't have a calibration DVD you can use a Comcast HD DVR or another DVR with a guide and put up the guide and change the sharpness from 50 to 80 or 100 and look at the text, At 50 it'll be soft and raising will bring out the detail, I think i'd probably recommend using the guide method anyway unless you have some HD sharpness patterns. If your raising the sharpness this high you will want to keep the detail enhancer and edge enhancer turned off.


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post #546 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 01:01 PM
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thanks for the replies. man is this nuts or what? I wish sony had a 4th present, one that was calibrated by one of their tech-nerd video specialists. I'm thinking that might give us a better starting point!

Anyone else have any thoughts on blu-ray performance? Impressed or no?

Thanks for the links, i will try the settings out tonight when I get home from work.
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post #547 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by nick2003 View Post

At 80 I notice no artificial noise, I actually did have it at 100 at one point and still might go back to 100 but I think I prefer it at 80 cause its a little more smooth looking. If you don't have a calibration DVD you can use a Comcast HD DVR or another DVR with a guide and put up the guide and change the sharpness from 50 to 80 or 100 and look at the text, At 50 it'll be soft and raising will bring out the detail, I think i'd probably recommend using the guide method anyway unless you have some HD sharpness patterns. If your raising the sharpness this high you will want to keep the detail enhancer and edge enhancer turned off.

Thanks; a couple things:

Yeah, the detail and edge enhancers are pure evil, and particularly with SD content (I posted regarding these in relation to SDDVD in another thread: with this set, less is definitely more in terms of processing). I have them off on every input.

But what I'm less sure about is the usefulness of using a calibration DVD (at least SD ones, like Avia and DVE, both of which I used for the DVD input) to determine accurate and non-intrusive sharpness settings for HD. I don't have a DVR (only unencrypted HD content over standard, box-less Comcast cable) or any other HD source to test this with. My understanding, however, is that in the case of SD content of whatever kind, sharpness generally adds and accentuates only noise not inherent to the signal. In the case of HD, however, I have heard that raising sharpness levels is less an "additive" process to falsely compensate for poor signal detail and more what it "should" be: an accentuation of the details (and, depending on the quality of the signal, also the noise) already present in the signal.

Now, in the case of HD clearly this depends on a number of factors (quality of signal, the way in which the sharpness control works with that signal in the display). The simpler way to ask the question, then, is this: using only a high-quality HD test pattern (cable, DVR, HD disc, etc.) where is the point at which the sharpness control begins to introduce noise, halos, etc. TO the image, rather than bringing out the full detail IN the image?

Man, that's a long post. Sorry!

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post #548 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by m4l View Post

Anyone else have any thoughts on blu-ray performance? Impressed or no?

Blu-ray looks amazing on mine, Depends on which disc you get though (check out the avs blu-ray tier thread). These tv's will display an amazing picture IF its fed it, If you feed it a poorly transfered movie its not going to look great, Has nothing to do with how well your tv is set up alot of the time (though you need to set it up right)


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post #549 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 01:25 PM
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powerknowledge:

At 100 I see no artificial ringing or anything, I can see how someone thats been watching a soft HD image would think that turning it to 100 add's artificial sharpness but its not artificial its just a video source limitation, Watch a very high quality HD source and you'll have a perfect, Fully detailed picture but on the other hand if your watching a less then perfect HD source which most stuff is then its going to look worse then if you had the sharpness set to 50 cause at 50 it smooths the image out and gets rid of any imperfections but like I said your losing detail. But sense your using an SD source I wouldn't recommend raising it to 100 and would probably leave it at 50 to smooth the SD feed out, When you get some HD sources I would raise it though.


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post #550 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick2003 View Post

powerknowledge:

At 100 I see no artificial ringing or anything, I can see how someone thats been watching a soft HD image would think that turning it to 100 add's artificial sharpness but its not artificial its just a video source limitation, Watch a very high quality HD source and you'll have a perfect, Fully detailed picture but on the other hand if your watching a less then perfect HD source which most stuff is then its going to look worse then if you had the sharpness set to 50 cause at 50 it smooths the image out and gets rid of any imperfections but like I said your losing detail. But sense your using an SD source I wouldn't recommend raising it to 100 and would probably leave it at 50 to smooth the SD feed out, When you get some HD sources I would raise it though.

Thanks; that helps. I DO have some HD broadcast content over cable (major networks and a few other unencrypted stations that I probably shouldn't be getting, but I am ), and I think with the setting at 50 those look fairly spectacular already, if a little soft at times. I chalked this up to only source material/signal, but now I think I'll play with it a bit during the better-produced HD shows. Who knows, maybe it'll make Lost more Lost-y and Boston Legal more Boston-y and/or Legal-y.
(Note I said better-produced, not necessarily "better"; though for some reason even the crappiest show seems better in HD... )

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post #551 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 03:32 PM
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I'm looking to trade to upgrade my 47" westingcrap to a sony 60"a2020 can someone answer me this question, does the a pc thru hdmi have 1:1 mapping (1920x1080@60hz)?
much appericated
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post #552 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 05:59 PM
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Just wondering if this is true, according to CNET reviews:

(about middle of review)
Performance

Editors' Note: As we mentioned above, all of the hands-on observations below were made on the original KDS-60A2000 we reviewed, not on the KDS-60A2020. We have also modified the section regarding the set's ability to resolve every detail of 1080i test patterns; see the original KDS-60A2000 review if you're interested. According to Sony, the new models can resolve every detail of 1080i and 1080p sources and do not suffer from the misadjusted filter.


Help??? :\\
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post #553 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlion View Post

Just wondering if this is true, according to CNET reviews:

(about middle of review)
Performance

Editors' Note: As we mentioned above, all of the hands-on observations below were made on the original KDS-60A2000 we reviewed, not on the KDS-60A2020. We have also modified the section regarding the set's ability to resolve every detail of 1080i test patterns; see the original KDS-60A2000 review if you're interested. According to Sony, the new models can resolve every detail of 1080i and 1080p sources and do not suffer from the misadjusted filter.


Help??? :\\

This makes the boys at CNET liars, as they claim that they did not bother to do a new review of the A2020 since Sony claims it is the same as the A2000 except for the color being black. Now they acknowledge that there is a substantial difference according to Sony?


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post #554 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlion View Post

Just wondering if this is true, according to CNET reviews:

(about middle of review)
Performance

Editors' Note: As we mentioned above, all of the hands-on observations below were made on the original KDS-60A2000 we reviewed, not on the KDS-60A2020. We have also modified the section regarding the set's ability to resolve every detail of 1080i test patterns; see the original KDS-60A2000 review if you're interested. According to Sony, the new models can resolve every detail of 1080i and 1080p sources and do not suffer from the misadjusted filter.


Help??? :\\

That is correct, The A2000 series was correctable via a service menu adjustment but the A2020 series comes 1080P-ready from the factory.


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post #555 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Karlinski View Post

This makes the boys at CNET liars, as they claim that they did not bother to do a new review of the A2020 since Sony claims it is the same as the A2000 except for the color being black. Now they acknowledge that there is a substantial difference according to Sony?

Wait a minute here! The resolution issue that CNet was referring to was resolved with a simple change in service menu parameters somewhere in the middle of the A2000 run. This has been discussed and well documented in the A2000 threads.

So, how does that make "the boys at CNET liars"?

But, as I have pointed out before, Sony has made some internal changes to the circuitry. These changes are probably not significant and it is likely that the Sony PR people that CNet talks to really did not know anything about these changes.

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post #556 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerknowledge View Post

Thanks; that helps. I DO have some HD broadcast content over cable (major networks and a few other unencrypted stations that I probably shouldn't be getting, but I am ), and I think with the setting at 50 those look fairly spectacular already, if a little soft at times. I chalked this up to only source material/signal, but now I think I'll play with it a bit during the better-produced HD shows. Who knows, maybe it'll make Lost more Lost-y and Boston Legal more Boston-y and/or Legal-y.
(Note I said better-produced, not necessarily "better"; though for some reason even the crappiest show seems better in HD... )

In that case I would raise the sharpness if I was you, Like I said 80 looks really good because it shows most of the details but also smooths out some imperfections in the source but if your really into seeing all the details go for 100 but just know that not everything is going to look great, only reference material.


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post #557 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 08:01 PM
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Take this for what it's worth (probably not much ), but to my eyes, I see ringing if I set sharpness higher than 15 or so with the Detail Enhancer set to low. I verified this with the HDNET test pattern and my copy of DVD essentials... I can't imagine how the picture would look with the sharpness set to 80 - but then again, I do have the noise reduction turned off, the detail enharcer set to low, and the 60a2020. To each his own, I guess.

Jose R. Perez
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post #558 of 3635 Old 05-14-2007, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by josejrp View Post

Take this for what it's worth (probably not much ), but to my eyes, I see ringing if I set sharpness higher than 15 or so with the Detail Enhancer set to low. I verified this with the HDNET test pattern and my copy of DVD essentials... I can't imagine how the picture would look with the sharpness set to 80 - but then again, I do have the noise reduction turned off, the detail enharcer set to low, and the 60a2020. To each his own, I guess.

Detail enhancer should be set to off as mentioned above.


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post #559 of 3635 Old 05-15-2007, 12:57 AM
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I stand corrected with the sharpness setting, After switching back to Cnets setting of 50 with detail enhancer and edge enhancer turned off the picture is alot less edgy and is still detailed.


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post #560 of 3635 Old 05-15-2007, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

Wait a minute here! The resolution issue that CNet was referring to was resolved with a simple change in service menu parameters somewhere in the middle of the A2000 run. This has been discussed and well documented in the A2000 threads.

So, how does that make "the boys at CNET liars"?

But, as I have pointed out before, Sony has made some internal changes to the circuitry. These changes are probably not significant and it is likely that the Sony PR people that CNet talks to really did not know anything about these changes.

It is a significant difference between the two that is more than color related.


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post #561 of 3635 Old 05-15-2007, 07:06 AM
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I have had 60" A2020 for about 4 days now and was about to start caliberating it. This discussion and the CNET link comes in handy so thank you for posting that. So far I have left the settings to factory Custom mode and just turned the brightness down. Even then it was too bright for my eyes. However, my wife watches is during the day and complained that it was too dim during the day.

I have a progressive scan DVD player and an SD Directivo (soon to be disconnected, btw) so I will be caliberating those two sources. I think I will be able to use the DVD Player and AVIA to caliberate those two inputs. But the HD input (QAM basic cable) was the tricky one. Should be solved by the CNET settings and a little more fiddling in the next few days.

Since this is my first HD set, the factory settings look good (in HD). I am having the time of my life watching abc-hd. Anyone else thinks that that channel, for some reason, looks stunning (Boston area) (also nbc)? Fox-hd looks very good but not the same "jaw dropping" good as abc or nbc. Its early days for me though. And the set is not caliberated.

BTW, how do people solve the day vs night problem? I do this by caliberating Vivid for day and Custom (or another) for night. (However, it drives me nuts when my wife watches Vivid mode during night).
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post #562 of 3635 Old 05-15-2007, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlion View Post

Editors' Note: As we mentioned above, all of the hands-on observations below were made on the original KDS-60A2000 we reviewed, not on the KDS-60A2020. We have also modified the section regarding the set's ability to resolve every detail of 1080i test patterns; see the original KDS-60A2000 review if you're interested. According to Sony, the new models can resolve every detail of 1080i and 1080p sources and do not suffer from the misadjusted filter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick2003 View Post

That is correct, The A2000 series was correctable via a service menu adjustment but the A2020 series comes 1080P-ready from the factory.

you can't blanket the entire a2000 series into this category. from what i've read the "misadjusted filter" issue only applies to some of the first a2000s produced; therefore, this "fix" wouldn't be considered an enhancement for the a2020.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7...1.html?tag=txt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Karlinski View Post

Now they acknowledge that there is a substantial difference according to Sony?

if you read the original a2000 review, they already acknowledged the problem and showed how to easily resolve it. regardless, there is no "substantial" difference between the a2020 and the a2000. well that is unless you consider the black/silver frame "substantial".
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post #563 of 3635 Old 05-15-2007, 12:09 PM
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You guys are debating over a CNET review? can we go back to the point of this thread and not waste time on stupid arguments like this?

like to point something, someone mention this TV looks bad on 480i signal. wasn't this a key problem "CONS" this series KDSXXA2000 has? Therefore it wasn't news to me when i decided to buy the 55a2020 a month ago.

The whole perfect color setting is overrated by some of you, shouldn't it all depend on distance, lighting and personal preference. I really don't think there is a perfect setting for any TV set. The only thing i really play with the 55a2020 is the screen mode rather watching it in Full, normal or zoom. i think the standard setting is already pretty good in vivid or standard mode.
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post #564 of 3635 Old 05-15-2007, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by yelloguy View Post

So far I have left the settings to factory Custom mode and just turned the brightness down. Even then it was too bright for my eyes.

I wouldn't use Brightness to control the light output. Use Picture or the Iris. Brightness just turns your blacks into gray (or your grays into black).

Quote:


BTW, how do people solve the day vs night problem?

Use the Advanced Iris settings. Min at night, Medium or higher in the day if you like it fixed, or maybe Auto 2 at night, Auto 1 during the day if you like it automatically adjusting.
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post #565 of 3635 Old 05-15-2007, 01:53 PM
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I wouldn't use Brightness to control the light output. Use Picture or the Iris. Brightness just turns your blacks into gray (or your grays into black).



Use the Advanced Iris settings. Min at night, Medium or higher in the day if you like it fixed, or maybe Auto 2 at night, Auto 1 during the day if you like it automatically adjusting.

Yeah, at night I pretty much set the iris to min and set the power save mode to on to dim the bulb even more. And of course make sure the brightness is just right to not gray the black.

I go back to auto iris at day, but sometimes I can still notice it changing. For movies it's not that bad, but for say a talk show that has long shots with someone talking while moving their hands makes it noticeable as the iris keeps going back and forth in the same still shot thanks to the hands moving.
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post #566 of 3635 Old 05-15-2007, 04:29 PM
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Thanks you for responses, as i'm considering this tv and don't need another lemon. I would like to use my PC on it also so i was wondering if anyone does and if theres any problems? thanks again. btw internet=best info resource. customers (you) better then cnet and why i posted this question here and main reason why i joined AVS (to get something that doesn't suck.
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post #567 of 3635 Old 05-15-2007, 07:50 PM
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Settings boil down to personal taste...unless ultimately you are trying to achieve accuracy, which depending on the person may, or may not be one in the same. Jacking up the sharpness will in the long run actually obscure fine detail and degrade the picture. Doing so contradicts every professional review and critical viewing I personally have read. But with the new circuitry in the A2020s this may not apply, as I have not read reviews on that specific model yet
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post #568 of 3635 Old 05-15-2007, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeeblez View Post

Jacking up the sharpness will in the long run actually obscure fine detail and degrade the picture. Doing so contradicts every professional review and critical viewing I personally have read. But with the new circuitry in the A2020s this may not apply, as I have not read reviews on that specific model yet

That (turning sharpness up) is almost a universal fact. I really doubt that the situation is much different on the 2020.

Dave Hancock
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post #569 of 3635 Old 05-15-2007, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

That (turning sharpness up) is almost a universal fact. I really doubt that the situation is much different on the 2020.

He he. I was just having a little fun with beer and sarcasm

Take care Dave

Cheers,

David
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post #570 of 3635 Old 05-16-2007, 07:58 AM
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I neglected to write down the serial number of my KDS-60A2020 before setting it up inside a large entertainment center, and I need it to register my extended warranty. I really don't want to take the TV out of the entertainment center apart to get the serial number.

I did find the Product Information page in the menus, and the #2 item on that page is an 8-digit number. Am I correct in assuming that's the serial number as found on the back of the set?

Thanks!
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