2007 Samsung LED Owner's Thread (HLT XX87/89S) - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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Old 04-09-2007, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Refresh rate alone will not get rid of judder.

Among other things the TV must accept a 1080p@24Hz input signal. Then it must multiply by five instead of converting the signal to 60Hz. Of course there must also be a 1080p@24Hz source.

As far as I know, these are all still unknowns as far as the Sony and Samsung 2007 models are concerned.

Hi this is my first post here, but I thought I would chime in since I just bought an HL-T5089S.

I'm a friend of Eliab's and we picked up two of these sets on Thursday. Eliab told me later that day that the HL-T5089S does indeed accept a 1080p/24 signal.

Until he calibrates my set (hopefully this week), I've been watching it in Movie mode, Warm 1 color temp, all auto features off such as DNIe, brightness at 31 and I find it to be very watchable. However, the out of the box settings are horrendous. Everything looks extremely oversharpened until you put the TV in Movie mode and turn the sharpness completely off. I'm feeding the set with a PS3 and a Motorola 3416 HD/DVR (Comcast cable), both via HDMI.

I've seen last year's LED-based HL-S5687W and the main thing that bothered me about that set was the weak black level, but I'm really pleased with how the blacks seem to be improved in the HL-T5089S.

This is a huge upgrade for me coming from an 8 or 9 year old 40" Toshiba TW40H80 (480i only) widescreen CRT RPTV. I'll be sure to post my impressions after Eliab calibrates it, but so far, I'm really impressed with this TV.
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Old 04-09-2007, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Studio Dweller View Post

Eliab told me later that day that the HL-T5089S does indeed accept a 1080p/24 signal.

Thanks - this is big news to some!
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Old 04-09-2007, 01:30 PM
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IF it displays it at 24x5 = 120, it is great news indeed. Now when is that PS3 going to get the update for 1080P/24 output?
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Old 04-09-2007, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Morseth View Post

My pincusion in 4:3 material is less than 1/8" on each side. It's so small I can barely measure it.

I don't believe you lose any color accuracy. If I remember correctly, last year's HL-S5679W RP LED calibrated more accurately than its bulb based counterparts. Hopefully, the same will hold true this year.

Contrast on my 6189S seems to be fantastic, so no worries there.

Only 1/8 of an inch of pincushion distortion and good contrast! This is what I was hoping to hear. Calling my friendly Samsung dealer now......

Thanks for the information!
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Old 04-09-2007, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

If Samsung had gotten rid of pincushion, they could place the optical block further away without having those black crescents.

Sorry, I'm not following your logic.

The way I understand it is that the further the light engine is from the screen, the bigger the projected image, and therefor the more optical overscan produced. Scaled overscan or underscan can be added without moving the light engine in relation to the screen.

Pincushion effect can be made better or worse by changing the orientation in space of the light engine to the screen.
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Old 04-09-2007, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by trgraphics View Post

IF it displays it at 24x5 = 120, it is great news indeed. Now when is that PS3 going to get the update for 1080P/24 output?

How can that be verified? Samsung could easily accept that 24fps and do 3:2 on it to generate 60fps. My understanding is that these are wobulated sets and that wobulation occurs at 120Hz (60Hz x 2). I am wondering if this 120Hz number that's been going around is not the true frame rate but rather the wobulation field rate.

Unless someone has a highspeed camera I am not aware of any non-subjective way to assess whether Samsung has implemented 24 x 5 = 120 or just 3:2 = 60 for 1080p/24 sources.

A related question, of course, is whether their deinterlacer "does the right thing" for 24fps source material.
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Old 04-09-2007, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by llowrey View Post

How can that be verified? Samsung could easily accept that 24fps and do 3:2 on it to generate 60fps.

Unless someone has a highspeed camera I am not aware of any non-subjective way to assess whether Samsung has implemented 24 x 5 = 120 or just 3:2 = 60 for 1080p/24 sources.

A related question, of course, is whether their deinterlacer "does the right thing" for 24fps source material.

Like llowrey says, 24p input is only useful if the display actually outputs that signal to the screen at a multiple, such as 120Hz.

A number of displays accept 24p input, but display it with pull-down at 60Hz, so there is no benefit. Some of the new 2007 Samsung LCDs / plasmas apparently do that.
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Old 04-09-2007, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Studio Dweller View Post

I just bought an HL-T5089S.

I'm a friend of Eliab's and we picked up two of these sets on Thursday. Eliab told me later that day that the HL-T5089S does indeed accept a 1080p/24 signal.

It's great to have a spy reporting from just inside Eliab's head. David Abrams is just too far away most of the time.

There is a lot of interest in this question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trgraphics View Post

IF it displays it at 24x5 = 120, it is great news indeed.

... and ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by llowrey View Post

... I am not aware of any non-subjective way to assess whether Samsung has implemented 24 x 5 = 120 or just 3:2 = 60 for 1080p/24 sources.

A related question, of course, is whether their deinterlacer "does the right thing" for 24fps source material.

... and ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Like llowrey says, 24p input is only useful if the display actually outputs that signal to the screen at a multiple, such as 120Hz.

A number of displays accept 24p input, but display it with pull-down at 60Hz, so there is no benefit. Some of the new 2007 Samsung LCDs / plasmas apparently do that.

We hope that getting solid information on what the LED sets do with the 24Hz input signal will be your first assignment.

Quote:
I'll be sure to post my impressions after Eliab calibrates it, but so far, I'm really impressed with this TV.

Great.
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Old 04-09-2007, 02:15 PM
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Dude, you are crazy. Your post put a huge smile on my face and made me laugh right out loud. You are like a fat kid in a candy store, it's freakin' hilarious. You just type what we are all thinking. Awesome!


hahahaha......I am pretty skinny but I can eat more candy than any fat kid. I am a candy junkie!!. Any way, cant wait to see these in person. Hopefully this weekend a local shop will have some in stock. I am also interested in the new lower priced 1080p panny plasmas that are coming later this month. All this waiting is killing me.

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Old 04-09-2007, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

TV, throughout it's history, has used overscan to hide the fact that the edges of the transmitted image are not clean.

Our TV is normally set to 1:1 pixel mapping. If we watch our local ABC station using it's analog signal we see a band of white light along the top edge of the image. Overscan covers that kind of problem. The general public will not notice a difference between 1:1 pixel mapping, and an image with 5% or more overscan. The general public will notice a band of white light across the top edge of their new TV, and they will complain.

The general public doesn't mind extra blue in the images they watch. We all dislike extra green, and notice it. Therefore TVs are shipped with color errors in the blue direction. Before our TV was calibrated the red and green color temps were close to 6,500K, but the blue was around 11,000K. Again, no complaints from the general public, or from a lot of people here at AVS.

oh ok i get it thanks. So the best thing would be to set all the inputs ( like inputs from blu ray, PS3, or dvd player) to "just scan" and set the input where the cable TV signal is coming in to normal or overscan. right?
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Old 04-09-2007, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trgraphics View Post

IF it displays it at 24x5 = 120, it is great news indeed. Now when is that PS3 going to get the update for 1080P/24 output?

haha yeah i know i heard the PS3 is definitly getting that update its just a matter of when.
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Old 04-09-2007, 02:57 PM
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My appointment for my 446lb (?!?!) HL-T6187S pickup is scheduled. Tomorrow by noon. WOOOOOOT!

I hope that weight is either a typo, or they sent me enough sets to gift out to other users on the forums here
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Old 04-09-2007, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

Damn, so the only projection method to get 1:1 pixel mode is a 1080p front projector?

No, any TV can have 1:1. Its just that in an RPTV you can't have 1:1 and no overscan. For most applications a little overscan is no problem. Unfortunately it is bad for a PCs task bar.
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Old 04-09-2007, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bcvp View Post

TXAnimator, the issue is with the new firmware on the STB, not the set. You should mention it to your cable company so they can hear another customer complain about it. lol. You could roll through the inputs back to STB on the remote if turning off the STB causes other problems like delays.

Some find leaving the STB on causes less issues with the STB. I imagine the cable companies are aware of the issue but haven't addressed it yet, probably when everyone uses HDMI they'll consider it. lol. It is an issue with the HDMI input talking with the STB.

Ahhhh... thanks for the info. I was really getting worried there for a second.

I'm going to adjust the settings tonight to match the setting of eliab's friend... I have a lot of the options currently turned on (DNIE, etc), so it'll be interesting to see how the set looks after I tweak it some more. Hopefully I'll be posting pictures soon, too.

I watched Planet Earth in HD last night, and the shot of the Great White shark flying through the air with the seal in its mouth was amazing... you could see light reflecting off of the individual drops of water after it crashed back down into the sea.
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Old 04-09-2007, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by joevfx View Post

oh ok i get it thanks. So the best thing would be to set all the inputs ( like inputs from blu ray, PS3, or dvd player) to "just scan" and set the input where the cable TV signal is coming in to normal or overscan. right?

That will work fine. You could also use "Just Scan" for your TV as long as you are watching digital SD or HD sources. Your area may have different quality TV signals than our areal.
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Old 04-09-2007, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by LesMoss View Post

No, any TV can have 1:1. Its just that in an RPTV you can't have 1:1 and no overscan. For most applications a little overscan is no problem. Unfortunately it is bad for a PCs task bar.

I'm missing the lower half of my task bar using 1:1 pixel mapping on a HLP set. That doesn't cause me any problems.

If too much of the task bar is missing you can always drag it out to double it's width or drag it to the side of the desktop. Either one of those methods might work. It will depend on the amount of overscan built into the individual set.
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Old 04-09-2007, 03:36 PM
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Y... sorry if I confused you.

That's OK. Confusion is my normal state.
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Old 04-09-2007, 03:36 PM
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So people that have the 89s with hdmi 1.3. Any word on if the TV can do "deep dolor" I know there arnt any sources yet but im just wondering for future PS3 games. Cause i heard the TV has xycc color gaumet options and can do 140% of NTSC color, so does that mean its "deep color?"
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Old 04-09-2007, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by joevfx View Post

So people that have the 89s with hdmi 1.3. Any word on if the TV can do "deep dolor" I know there arnt any sources yet but im just wondering for future PS3 games. Cause i heard the TV has xycc color gaumet options and can do 140% of NTSC color, so does that mean its "deep color?"

Yes and yes.
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Old 04-09-2007, 03:54 PM
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Yes and yes.

From what I have read and understand, this has nothing to do with HDMI 1.3, however. For NOW, there is no inherent advantage in having HDMI 1.3 vs. HDMI 1.1
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Old 04-09-2007, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TXAnimator View Post

Got my HL-T5689S delivered on Saturday (sorry, no pictures yet).

One question I have... this is the first set I've had that utilizes HDMI. I have my HD cable box going into HDMI 1 and my PS3 going into HDMI 2. I was playing with settings while watching TV, then switched over to the PS3 to play Motorstorm (which looks awesome). When I went to switch back to the TV HDMI input, I got a static screen. Not your normal black and white static, but this white background with tiny blue and red static. The only way to get it to display the TV again is to turn off the cable box and turn it back on again. Any idea why it is doing this? Is it because it's going from 1080p on HDMI 2 to 1080i on HDMI 1?

Its a Motorola cable box issue. It has trouble handshaking with the TV via HDMI. Supposedly a newer firmware fixes these issues, but its only been deployed in about 5% of the US so far... so all we can do is wait. I have the same issue. You can cycle the power on the TV, the cable box, or unplug and replug in the HDMI cable and all those fix the handshake (reissue the handshake command pretty much). It happens with wll sorts of TVs and brands, and there are several threads in the cable box forums...
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Old 04-09-2007, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by heavyobjects View Post

From what I have read and understand, this has nothing to do with HDMI 1.3, however. For NOW, there is no inherent advantage in having HDMI 1.3 vs. HDMI 1.1


the XYCC color space and "Deep Color" are the main selling points of HDMI 1.3 if you go to the HDMI and look under the new specs. Sop yeah you need HDMI 1.3 for these. thast why i was wondering if the TV did them since the 89S is 1.3
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Old 04-09-2007, 04:16 PM
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I am interested in the 89s and I am a HTPC junky.(My current set is two year old Sammy 6167) Has anyone tried or willing to try to hook up their pc via HDMI to check how it all works and how well it looks? Thanks!
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Old 04-09-2007, 04:22 PM
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I'm also curious about the potential use of these sets with an HTPC. I am especially eager to know about the banding issues these sets might have, the biggest problem my current HLN TV suffers from.
That being said, I still haven't seen a digital display with zero banding on color gradients, but some are definitely better than others.
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Old 04-09-2007, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by andydumi View Post

Its a Motorola cable box issue. It has trouble handshaking with the TV via HDMI. Supposedly a newer firmware fixes these issues, but its only been deployed in about 5% of the US so far... so all we can do is wait.

I know this isn't the right location for this discussion but when you refer to a firmware upgrade do you mean for the TV or cable box? I am concerned about this because this problem rears its ugly head even more prominently with harmony remote activity function sequences.
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Old 04-09-2007, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ditcho View Post

I still haven't seen a digital display with zero banding on color gradients, but some are definitely better than others.

How do you tell when the banding is caused by the source, the transfer, the provider, or the calibration of the TV?
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Old 04-09-2007, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92westshady View Post

I know this isn't the right location for this discussion but when you refer to a firmware upgrade do you mean for the TV or cable box? I am concerned about this because this problem rears its ugly head even more prominently with harmony remote activity function sequences.

In this case it's the firmware of the STB that's causing a problem.
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Old 04-09-2007, 04:56 PM
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I'm seriously considering getting the hl-t6189s, but I have a few questions:

I've had a 65" Hitachi CRT (isf calibrated, duvetyne lining, etc.) for the last 5 years, so I'm wondering how this will compare in picture quality to that. Will blacks on the Samsung be as deep? I'm assuming I would want a calibration on the new set...

I've tried to look at similar Samsung's in local stores, but the new ones aren't available here yet.

Do you think there will be a big perceived difference going from 65" down to 61"?

This new set would be mostly for Dish HD and PS3 (Blu-ray).

One more thing: right now my center channel speaker is on top of the Hitachi, but I'm sure that won't work for the new Samsung sets. I've looked at pictures of the Samsung floor stand (TR50X3B), but it's unclear whether I could put the center speaker under the tv in the stand. Does anyone know if it could fit? It seems the glass shelves are fixed, but I assume you could just now install one of them. I have a Definitive Tech. CLR 2000 speaker, which is pretty big and hefty.

Thanks...
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Old 04-09-2007, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joevfx View Post

the XYCC color space and "Deep Color" are the main selling points of HDMI 1.3 if you go to the HDMI and look under the new specs. Sop yeah you need HDMI 1.3 for these. thast why i was wondering if the TV did them since the 89S is 1.3

The color gamut exceeding NTSC is being marketed as a benefit of the LED engine, not the HDMI 1.3. HDMI 1.3 is being marketed as allowing for greater color depth, yes, but the source needs to support it as well. To my knowledge, nothing utilizes HDMI 1.3 in that way yet, does it?
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Old 04-09-2007, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyobjects View Post

The color gamut exceeding NTSC is being marketed as a benefit of the LED engine, not the HDMI 1.3. HDMI 1.3 is being marketed as allowing for greater color depth, yes, but the source needs to support it as well. To my knowledge, nothing utilizes HDMI 1.3 in that way yet, does it?

the PS3 can output "deep Color" through HDMI 1.3 when the blu ray disc thats put in it supports it. But can the 89s recieve that source?
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