2007 Samsung LED Owner's Thread (HLT XX87/89S) - Page 309 - AVS Forum
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post #9241 of 14898 Old 12-29-2007, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaddev View Post

Ok i just bought my samsung 50" 87 series. I have comcast and on the non HD channels the picture is very pixelized. Is it comcast or do I need to change the settings on my tv? I have done a few changes but nothing seems to work.

Check out these links:

Avical's starter settings for Samsung HL-Txx87/89 DLP
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=866534

Avical starter settings (website):
http://www.avical.com/articles/samsu..._settings.html

Samsung HL-T6187S 61" Best Settings Poll/Survey...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=903513

Avio
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post #9242 of 14898 Old 12-29-2007, 03:20 PM
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i have tweeked the tv to the different specs you listed above and it has alittle affect but still looks worse than my old tube tv
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post #9243 of 14898 Old 12-29-2007, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvindd View Post

My stand came from Best Buy, very sturdy and heavy.http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1165609791326

My black tv stand pictured below came from homedecorators.com. They have at least 155 to choose from at http://www.homedecorators.com/Furnit...s=none&pr=none

I don't go for totally open shelves because it's just gonna end up looking real cluttered. And a lot of wives won't like it.

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post #9244 of 14898 Old 12-29-2007, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaddev View Post

i have tweeked the tv to the different specs you listed above and it has alittle affect but still looks worse than my old tube tv

The problem is both Comcast and with blowing up the SD signal to 1080p. Comcast, like all cable, compresses its signal. Then you upconvert that compressed crappy SD signal to hi-res. That's why it looks pixelated and poor quality.

Does your location permit you to install a roof antenna? If so, you may be able to get a good OTA signal. Your TV has two RF inputs which allow easy switching between OTA and Cable.

Good Luck. Avio
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post #9245 of 14898 Old 12-29-2007, 04:18 PM
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"OTA signal" what is this and how dose it help my digital problem
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post #9246 of 14898 Old 12-29-2007, 04:21 PM
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OTA=Over the Air, the signals that come from your local station through the air to a TV antenna, like the old rabbit ears.
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post #9247 of 14898 Old 12-29-2007, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaddev View Post

"OTA signal" what is this and how dose it help my digital problem

Your TV has an ATSC tuner and when connected to a decent antenna (if you live near a metro area) will provide an Over-The-Air Digital TV signal. DTV includes both Standard Definition (SD) and High Definition (HD). An OTA Digital TV signal will be free of all the negatives associated with the old NTSC analog TV signals.

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post #9248 of 14898 Old 12-29-2007, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trance View Post

Do you know what exactly is acceptable "bad" geometry? I thought I have seen where 1/4" is within tolerance according to Samsung.

What did you decide was acceptable to you? My 6189 is off by 1/2" on the L and R sides while viewing a grid jpeg.

Hey Trance,

I've never seen that 1/4" is acceptable, but thanks for that info.

As far as I'm concerned, none of it is acceptable when you've just dropped a couple G's on a TV. The damn thing should be perfect for that kind of money.

However... below is a picture of what I ended up settling for. *Note: This is on the 5687.

My geometry with this tv is off by about 1/4" - 3/8". I'm not to happy about it, but this one I can live with. The last one was off about an inch or so, and was cocked in a counter-clockwise setting. So when I went to exchange it, this time I took my test image on a USB Drive to plug it in and test it in the store. Needless to say, the sales manager was not happy looking bad in front of everyone when I made him open up all 5 of the TV's he had there, and showed him and everyone else in the store that there were problems with every single one of them. I ended up taking the one with the least amount of problems.

At this point, I think what I'm going to do is make some dumb excuse up to get a tech over here via my warranty from the store. Then, I'll have him make whatever adjustments that are needed, and hopefully I will finally be satisfied. I too am a very picky person, but sometimes you just have to be.

Hope this eases your mind.
-BLACKTOOTHGRIN
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post #9249 of 14898 Old 12-29-2007, 08:25 PM
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I have the harmony xbox 360 remote and have setup activities to 'watch a dvd' and 'play the xbox360'.

The xbox 360 is connected via the component input...the harmony will switch everything on properly, but fails to switch to the component1 input on my 6187s. I suspect this is a timing issue because when I use the help function on the remote it will switch it to component1 when prompted.

Here are the options:

Power On Delay:
Inter-key Delay:
Input Delay:
Inter-Device Delay:

I've tried the default settings, and also tried setting everything to higher values. If anyone has exact values to try let me know, or if something else might be causing my problem. Thanks!
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post #9250 of 14898 Old 12-29-2007, 09:26 PM
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I sure thank you all for all this info. I can see these LED DLPs do not make sense for my application. My angular viewing needs are far too great to begin with, and the rest of the headaches just add up to a "no thanks" at this time.

I really love the humongous DLP projectors we use in corporate and theatre AV though, either front or rear lit with real screens, it's an amazing technology.
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post #9251 of 14898 Old 12-29-2007, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnilan View Post

LEDme:
This "stutter" occurs more frequently in 24 fps material but is also visible with 60 fps material. I was informed by Samsung that this is a problem with the DVD player (I have a Samsung BD-P1400 Blu-Ray) and that they were aware of it and working on a firmware update TO THE DVD PLAYER to resolve the issue.

Under what conditions are you observing this phenomenon?

I believe what I'm seeing is normal frame judder that is a known limitation of 24fps source material. Same as at the actual movies with a standard projector.
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post #9252 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKTOOTHGRIN View Post

Hey Trance,

I've never seen that 1/4" is acceptable, but thanks for that info.

As far as I'm concerned, none of it is acceptable when you've just dropped a couple G's on a TV. The damn thing should be perfect for that kind of money.

However... below is a picture of what I ended up settling for. *Note: This is on the 5687.

My geometry with this tv is off by about 1/4" - 3/8". I'm not to happy about it, but this one I can live with. The last one was off about an inch or so, and was cocked in a counter-clockwise setting. So when I went to exchange it, this time I took my test image on a USB Drive to plug it in and test it in the store. Needless to say, the sales manager was not happy looking bad in front of everyone when I made him open up all 5 of the TV's he had there, and showed him and everyone else in the store that there were problems with every single one of them. I ended up taking the one with the least amount of problems.

At this point, I think what I'm going to do is make some dumb excuse up to get a tech over here via my warranty from the store. Then, I'll have him make whatever adjustments that are needed, and hopefully I will finally be satisfied. I too am a very picky person, but sometimes you just have to be.

Hope this eases your mind.
-BLACKTOOTHGRIN

I wanted to do the same as you - view the test image on individual TV's at the store until I could find one that I could live with, but I could not get the store(s) to agree since they had to get the TV's from their warehouses.

Yesterday my latest salesman claims that he contacted his Samsung rep about my "concerns". Apparently it was determined that I probably won't ever be satisfied with ANY 6189 and then he tells me the store will be picking up my 2-day old 6189S TV today and refunding me my monies, thus terminating the transaction!

So I walk into CC last night trying to determine my next path (LCD, Plasma perhaps?) and I see all the TV's displaying the same picture - the blue DirecTV Guide . For those that are unfamiliar with the DirecTV Guide, it is a great indicator of geometry (or in the case of some of the HLT's, a lack thereof) since it has a grid pattern to it. I literally was shocked that every one of the HLT's (at least a half-dozen) all had the horizontal lines "cocked" by as much as 1-2"! This was really noticeable on the very bottom of the Guide. Unbelievable to say the least!

I, like you, can not believe that for a couple of grand one can't get a TV that can show straight horizontal and vertical lines. I just don't get it...

Please keep in mind I am a previous owner of a Sammy 56" HLN series which I absolutely LOVED for 4 years! IMO the picture quality of these sets are awesome, but unfortunately Samsung has lost my DLP allegiance. I hope I am not making a mistake, but I have decided to switch camps and go down the path of the plasmas.

Good luck to you and all others. I really wished I could have been lucky enough to have received a 6189 that would have kept me satisfied.
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post #9253 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaddev View Post

Ok i just bought my samsung 50" 87 series. I have comcast and on the non HD channels the picture is very pixelized. Is it comcast or do I need to change the settings on my tv? I have done a few changes but nothing seems to work.

In addition to the information Avio supplied you I feel that you need to reset your expectations on SD quality on a large TV. Anytime you go from a smaller CRT TV to a larger HD TV (of any kind), your picture won't look as crisp... just like going from a small CRT TV to a large CRT TV. IMHO the xx87 is better than the average HDTV on displaying SD content but none of them will look good.

The settings Avio pointed you to will help greatly because the factory settings are awful for SD content. They are way too bright and have the color blown way out of proportion. It makes for very bad SD and HD viewing. With the right "tweaking" you will have far better results. In fact, I am pretty amazed that my 6187 is as good as it is on SD content.

but be sure to change the settings when you are watching one of the SD channels as the settings are specific to the input you are on. In other words, you will need to set separate settings for all the devices you view on the TV... Cable, OTA, DVD, VCR, and etc.

If it is still "terrible" after doing the tweaks on all the inputs, then you probably need to get Comcast out to check the signal. If you have any splitters in your wiring, that could also have an impact on the picture quality.

Regards, Steve
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post #9254 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 07:02 AM
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Hi folks,

I did some searching, but keep getting confused. I'm looking for some help on what I should set for picture settings for my PS3/HLT-5089s combo connected via HDMI. I'm not so much looking for the tint, contrast, and those settings, but the ones which relate to HDMI color space.

Specifically for in the PS3 video settings:
RGB full range (limited/full)
Y Pb / Cb Pr / Cr Super-White (on/off)

Fpor the TV:
the color space settings: (RGB/wide/normal(?)), and the xvyCC option (wherever it is).

Should I turn on game mode for the PS3? I'm wondering it there would be any lag on games that output @ 720p. If I recall, you have to have game mode off and movie mode on to get the xvyCC option. Is that worth doing in favor of using game mode to prevent any lag?

Thanks!
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post #9255 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 08:33 AM
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24 fps, is not the same thing as 120 mhz, right?

The reason I ask is that when I press the info button on my HL-s5087
on any HD input (all through HDMI) including my PS3 it shows 1080 (or 720 whatever the case may be) and 60mhz.
I never see anything any different in that second spec. which I think is refresh rate.
Also How do I "force" my PS3 to 24mhz?
I should add that I have recently updated the firmware on my Sammy.
My confusion comes from
my thinking that DLPs were refreshing at 120 mhz, thus their superiority for sports viewing, yet I have never seen a pictured being displayed at 120 mhz.
I also understand that 24 mhz is better for movies, right?

Thanks

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post #9256 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDme View Post

I believe what I'm seeing is normal frame judder that is a known limitation of 24fps source material. Same as at the actual movies with a standard projector.

LED:
Well, my understanding (which could easily be incorrect 8^) is that judder occurs when 24 fps material is played back at 30 fps (or 60 fps in the case of "wobulated" configurations) and is the result of the extra frames inserted into the 24fps to make the math come out even...

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post #9257 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.hasenauer@veri View Post

24 fps, is not the same thing as 120 mhz, right?

The reason I ask is that when I press the info button on my HL-s5087
on any HD input (all through HDMI) including my PS3 it shows 1080 (or 720 whatever the case may be) and 60mhz.
I never see anything any different in that second spec. which I think is refresh rate.
Also How do I "force" my PS3 to 24mhz?
I should add that I have recently updated the firmware on my Sammy.
My confusion comes from
my thinking that DLPs were refreshing at 120 mhz, thus their superiority for sports viewing, yet I have never seen a pictured being displayed at 120 mhz.
I also understand that 24 mhz is better for movies, right?

Thanks

As I understand it (and, like 24fps above ^ I may be mistaken) 120 Hz is a displayrate that is the current nirvana for LCD displays in order to deal with motion artifacts (e.g., blur) that result from the slow refresh rate of the LCD technology. I do not think it has anything to do with DLP technology.

Part of your confusion may stem from the fact that this is an HLT xx87S/xx89S discussion thread and you have indicated that you have an HLS display. I am not familiar with the HLS displays...

mnilan
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post #9258 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.hasenauer@veri View Post

24 fps, is not the same thing as 120 mhz, right?

The reason I ask is that when I press the info button on my HL-s5087
on any HD input (all through HDMI) including my PS3 it shows 1080 (or 720 whatever the case may be) and 60mhz.
I never see anything any different in that second spec. which I think is refresh rate.
Also How do I "force" my PS3 to 24mhz?
I should add that I have recently updated the firmware on my Sammy.
My confusion comes from
my thinking that DLPs were refreshing at 120 mhz, thus their superiority for sports viewing, yet I have never seen a pictured being displayed at 120 mhz.
I also understand that 24 mhz is better for movies, right?

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avio View Post

These Wiki articles seem to address many of your questions:

24p:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p

Refresh Rate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refresh_rate

Also I believe it's 24Hz and 120Hz, not mhz.

And I think that 120Hz is produced by Wobulation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobulation

See the Wiki paragraph toward the end of the article that discusses DLP. 120Hz is produced with wobulation of the 60Hz pixel array.

Avio
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post #9259 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 10:14 AM
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I purchased a KDL40V3000 for my kids to use with a PS3....it does a great job with games and Blu-ray movies...but with over the air HD there is a lot of motion blur...watching the game last night (Eagles/Patriots) I compared my DLP (Samsung HL-T5089S) and the Sony picture quality...the motion blur is pretty bad and I am thankful for the DLP which has none. How do the LCD folks put up with it?...if the Sony was my only HDTV I would have to return it...at a friends house the other night I was watching his LG and I commented on the blur...he didn't know what I meant...so we went to my house to view the DLP (he had never viewed a DLP)...once he saw a display without blur he knew what to look for...at this point he was disgusted with his LG...I believe if I could have a DLP on a truck where I could drive to peoples houses I could change many minds about LCD.

Eastern NC.
Come on Plasma and LCD guys!...you know that the DLP format is better!...& You can be format neutral if you want but the war is over...BluRay won!
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post #9260 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 11:14 AM
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Does anyone know the the best callibration or settings for the 6187?
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post #9261 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnewell View Post

Does anyone know the the best callibration or settings for the 6187?

Check out these links:

Avical's starter settings for Samsung HL-Txx87/89 DLP
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=866534

Avical starter settings (website):
http://www.avical.com/articles/samsu..._settings.html

Samsung HL-T6187S 61" Best Settings Poll/Survey...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=903513

Avio
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post #9262 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnilan View Post

As I understand it (and, like 24fps above ^ I may be mistaken) 120 Hz is a displayrate that is the current nirvana for LCD displays in order to deal with motion artifacts (e.g., blur) that result from the slow refresh rate of the LCD technology. I do not think it has anything to do with DLP technology.

Part of your confusion may stem from the fact that this is an HLT xx87S/xx89S discussion thread and you have indicated that you have an HLS display. I am not familiar with the HLS displays...

Sorry, I got mixed up, I have had so many Samsung DLPs in the past year trying to get a good one I get them confused.
I do indeed have a an HL-T5087
I originally had and HL-S5087, then Samsung replaced it with a HL-T5076S, then I got my money back and bought this HL-T5087
So are DLPs 120 hz?
and what about the mythical 24 fps, can these units do this or not
I am begining to feel I have been ripped off here

and what

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post #9263 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnilan View Post

LED:
Well, my understanding (which could easily be incorrect 8^) is that judder occurs when 24 fps material is played back at 30 fps (or 60 fps in the case of "wobulated" configurations) and is the result of the extra frames inserted into the 24fps to make the math come out even...

yeah, I think you're correct. What I'm seeing is strobing and maybe also some 60Hz flickering when in 60. Bottom line is that with 24Hz "forced" from the PS3, movies and animation appear as smooth as 24fps content can be.
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post #9264 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.hasenauer@veri View Post

... I do indeed have a an HL-T5087

So are DLPs 120 hz?

and what about the mythical 24 fps, can these units do this or not ? ...

Two items to note (perhaps with a grain of salt) that come directly from the current spec sheet on Samsung.com for the HL-T5087S:

http://www.samsung.com/us/system/con...L-T5087S_3.pdf

Quote:


Specifications
DISPLAY PERFORMANCE
Video display rate: 120 Hz
Response time: 16 micro seconds

Cinema Smooth Film Mode 3:2 Pull Down
Powered by Samsung's Cinema Smooth technology, 3:2 Pull Down corrects for the artificial frames created when films are converted to DVDs. The result is a clearer image without the subtle motion artifacts caused by 24-to-30 frames per second video conversion.

Manyy xx87S owners have posted here in this thread and confirmed that with updated firmware (1025/1026 or higher) and with a compatible HD/Blue DVD player (notably PS3 w/firmware update, and notably not certain Samsung, Panasonic and Toshiba models) they can "do" 24 fps.

Avio
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post #9265 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trance View Post

I wanted to do the same as you - view the test image on individual TV's at the store until I could find one that I could live with, but I could not get the store(s) to agree since they had to get the TV's from their warehouses.

Yesterday my latest salesman claims that he contacted his Samsung rep about my "concerns". Apparently it was determined that I probably won't ever be satisfied with ANY 6189 and then he tells me the store will be picking up my 2-day old 6189S TV today and refunding me my monies, thus terminating the transaction!

So I walk into CC last night trying to determine my next path (LCD, Plasma perhaps?) and I see all the TV's displaying the same picture - the blue DirecTV Guide . For those that are unfamiliar with the DirecTV Guide, it is a great indicator of geometry (or in the case of some of the HLT's, a lack thereof) since it has a grid pattern to it. I literally was shocked that every one of the HLT's (at least a half-dozen) all had the horizontal lines "cocked" by as much as 1-2"! This was really noticeable on the very bottom of the Guide. Unbelievable to say the least!

I, like you, can not believe that for a couple of grand one can't get a TV that can show straight horizontal and vertical lines. I just don't get it...

Please keep in mind I am a previous owner of a Sammy 56" HLN series which I absolutely LOVED for 4 years! IMO the picture quality of these sets are awesome, but unfortunately Samsung has lost my DLP allegiance. I hope I am not making a mistake, but I have decided to switch camps and go down the path of the plasmas.

Good luck to you and all others. I really wished I could have been lucky enough to have received a 6189 that would have kept me satisfied.


I too, have thought about switching to plasma. I just don't think I could stomach having to throw another G or two into a tv of the same size. Burn-In and the picture dimming in a few years are also a big concern of mine. Maybe when they get that stuff worked out I'll be more open tothe idea.

Good luck to you on your GAS adventure. Please drop a line and let us all know how it all goes for you in comparison to the xx87/xx89 series.

Take care,
BLACKTOOTHGRIN

-BLACKTOOTHGRIN
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post #9266 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 04:09 PM
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Hey Guys,

I'm still having problems getting the settings correct for watching DVD's. I know most of you already have the HD & Blueray players, but for now I'm stuck with the Samsung 1080p7 Upconversion, until the battle is over.

It seems like I've tried every possible config. and for the life of me, still end up with the picture being either TOO GRAINY or TOO DARK for my liking. I even tried a Sony upconversion. The picture was a little clearer, but even more grain than the Sammy.

Can anyone give me some suggestions on how to solve this problem?
btw..I AM using a good quality Monster HDMI cable.

-BLACKTOOTHGRIN
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post #9267 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avio View Post

Two items to note (perhaps with a grain of salt) that come directly from the current spec sheet on Samsung.com for the HL-T5087S:

http://www.samsung.com/us/system/con...L-T5087S_3.pdf

Manyy xx87S owners have posted here in this thread and confirmed that with updated firmware (1025/1026 or higher) and with a compatible HD/Blue DVD player (notably PS3 w/firmware update, and notably not certain Samsung, Panasonic and Toshiba models) they can "do" 24 fps.

Avio

Thank You! This info is gold, and I agree with the salt.
I have updated firm ware on both my Sammy, and the PS3.
So how come the 120 hz never displays from the info button?
It only shows 60hz for with all hd inputs.

Incidently I have a tech coming out to look at the purple optical "cloud" that I, like so many others here have.
Also I have complained again about bad geometry due to screen warp.
This time the warp has gotten worse over the past 4 months since I bought the set.
I can actually see the curvature to the screen when the set is turned off!
Why didn't Samsung just spring for a glass screen!
Any luck that these classic Samsung issues have been resolved by yet?

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post #9268 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by supwdatt View Post

Here are three I have used and are somewhere in this link but don't know where so will attach them. I think you can copy them down.

Stupid question here.. What is the proper way to use these images? I copied them to a USB memory card, plugged it into the TV, and displayed the images.. they were all very small on my HL-T5087SAX, so I had to zoom in to have them fill the screen. Is that the right way to go? I would have thought the images would be 1920x1080 already. Even the "1920x1080" image is actually only 1024x576 pixels.

On the good side, my TV manufactured Nov. 2007 has no halo and virtually no deformation, as far as I can tell. The upper right has a very slight bowing, but it's not noticable at all. So, it is possible to get a near-perfect TV.

(Now that I've said that, my problems will begin.....)

Tim
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post #9269 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.hasenauer@veri View Post

... So how come the 120 hz never displays from the info button?
It only shows 60hz for with all hd inputs. ...

I believe that there is no such thing as a 120Hz Source Input at this time.

I think the best inputs you are going to see with the info button are:

1920x1080@60Hz

1920x1080@24Hz

BTW, the 1080 means 1080p.

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post #9270 of 14898 Old 12-30-2007, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim256 View Post

Stupid question here.. What is the proper way to use these images? I copied them to a USB memory card, plugged it into the TV, and displayed the images.. they were all very small on my HL-T5087SAX, so I had to zoom in to have them fill the screen. Is that the right way to go? I would have thought the images would be 1920x1080 already. Even the "1920x1080" image is actually only 1024x576 pixels.

On the good side, my TV manufactured Nov. 2007 has no halo and virtually no deformation, as far as I can tell. The upper right has a very slight bowing, but it's not noticable at all. So, it is possible to get a near-perfect TV.

(Now that I've said that, my problems will begin.....)

Tim

Congrats Tim. I've owned 3 and tested a total of 7. Every single one had a geometry problem, and 1 of 7 had the halo problem. Guess you got lucky.

Anyway, all you have to do is resize the image with Adobe Photoshop or some other image editing software. Guess maybe you didn't have it on hand. Attached is a resized image to 1920x1080 if you need it.
LL

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