2007 Samsung LED Owner's Thread (HLT XX87/89S) - Page 31 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #901 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 02:28 PM
Member
 
basshead760's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego, Temecula, CA
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well, I got the wifey's approval on the on the 5689s. The only crappy thing is, my local AVAD distributor says it's Special order and minimum 2 weeks out. Wish me luck
basshead760 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #902 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 02:31 PM
Member
 
EBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 176
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by paolomaldini View Post

Owners...

Can someone please let me know if this set has SSE? If so, is it greatly reduced from what we see in LCOS and regular DLP?

I don't have access to these sets in stores and am very curious.

Thanks.

It definitely 'has it'. In my limited experience with it (last year's 5679), and now the new S line example I saw at Fry's yesterday, it seems to be a little less, but it's still there. No question.

:insert disclaimer to the inevitable 'of course it has it, it's the same screen material' response from the usual suspects - just some anecdotal evidence, IME, to help the guy:
EBee is offline  
post #903 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 02:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joevfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by viction View Post

Just got my 6189S in and I used Eliab's settings and the picture looks very dim. I'm watching Talladega Nights on Blue-Ray using my PS3. Picture is also only at 60hz. I thought this was a 120hz set?


yeah i thought it was 120hz also but it doesnt say that anywhere in the owners manual.
joevfx is offline  
post #904 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 02:41 PM
Member
 
knightsabre7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: White Plains, NY
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by joevfx View Post

yeah i thought it was 120hz also but it doesnt say that anywhere in the owners manual.

I'm curious, even if it isn't 120hz, has anyone experience much "judder"?
knightsabre7 is offline  
post #905 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 02:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joevfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightsabre7 View Post

I'm curious, even if it isn't 120hz, has anyone experience much "judder"?


im not sure is truly 120hz. here is an article about the new sony sxrds that will be 120hz. looks like they went through alot of trouble to accomplish this and Samsung hasnt said a word about what they did to make there TVs 120hz.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6431524.html?nid=2402
joevfx is offline  
post #906 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 02:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
Tim Hess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 546
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've contacted crutchfield with my issue(s), I'm awaiting a response - I won't be able to fiddle with the set until tomorrow (I'll snap some pics as well: 360 VGA+Component, HD Cable and an HD-DVD (360) as well).
Tim Hess is offline  
post #907 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 03:05 PM
Member
 
PapaBliss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 112
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by viction View Post

Just got my 6189S in and I used Eliab's settings and the picture looks very dim.

Those are "starter" settings and will need to be tweaked for your set and viewing environment. I ended up going a little lower on the brightness and a little higher on the contrast.
PapaBliss is offline  
post #908 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 03:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joevfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
this is a great article about 108024p. looks like HD content is ALREADY 108024P and its on the end of the dvd player or display to process it correctly.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...07-part-3.html

"Well, the first thing to come to terms with is, that, as we've pointed out, there is an abundance of 1080p24 material out there, encoded into 1080i60 format. If you want to view it at its full potential, you need not only a device capable of displaying it, a so called 1080line TV, but the ability to actually de-interlace it properly."
joevfx is offline  
post #909 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 03:18 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
htwaits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 24,803
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by viction View Post

Just got my 6189S in and I used Eliab's settings and the picture looks very dim.

Eliab's settings are for last year's model. He is supposed to have a HL-T model that he will be reporting on as soon as he gets the kinks out.

Quote:


Picture is also only at 60hz. I thought this was a 120hz set?

Your set is reporting the input refresh rate. That doesn't tell you what refresh rate the TV is using.

Calibration Resources:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

htwaits is offline  
post #910 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 03:59 PM
Advanced Member
 
Norse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
is costco ever getting these?

Samsung 4665f 1028/1008 flawless
Xbox 360 Elite
PS3
8300HD
onkyo 605
panamax filtration
Norse is offline  
post #911 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 04:06 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
htwaits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 24,803
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norse View Post

is costco ever getting these?

Based on the past, no. You can't tell for sure because Samsung did a HL-S6767 model that was exclusive to Costco in 2006.

Calibration Resources:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

htwaits is offline  
post #912 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 04:08 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
htwaits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 24,803
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnelson2000 View Post

From the HLT6189S service manual

Model HL-T6189S
Voltage AC 110 - 120V~
Frequency of Operation 60Hz
Power Consumption 230 watts
Dimensions
(W x D x H)
1391 x 957 x 392 inches
1391 x 957 x 392 mm
Weight 33.9Kg / 74.7 lbs

I suspect that the service manual might be right, but that's not always the case.

Calibration Resources:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

htwaits is offline  
post #913 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 04:10 PM
Senior Member
 
jnelson2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 265
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I suspect that the service manual might be right, but that's not always the case.

I believe this may be talking about power line frequency rather than video rates. Nothing in the SM says anything about 120Hz though.
jnelson2000 is offline  
post #914 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 04:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joevfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnelson2000 View Post

From the HLT6189S service manual

Model HL-T6189S
Voltage AC 110 - 120V~
Frequency of Operation 60Hz
Power Consumption 230 watts
Dimensions
(W x D x H)
1391 x 957 x 392 inches
1391 x 957 x 392 mm
Weight 33.9Kg / 74.7 lbs

ha, i knew it, they changed the specs. their singled out spec sheet said the tv display rate was 120hz, but its only says its 60hz in the actual owners manual.
joevfx is offline  
post #915 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 04:12 PM
Member
 
knightsabre7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: White Plains, NY
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnelson2000 View Post

From the HLT6189S service manual

Model HL-T6189S
Voltage AC 110 - 120V~
Frequency of Operation 60Hz
Power Consumption 230 watts
Dimensions
(W x D x H)
1391 x 957 x 392 inches
1391 x 957 x 392 mm
Weight 33.9Kg / 74.7 lbs

I think that's the voltage frequency. The last page of the spec docs on the Samsung site say the same thing under "Power" specifications.

Under "Display Performance" it says "Video display rate: 120Hz", although it is unclear whether this figure takes into account the wobulation or not.

Sorry, I can't create a link yet.
knightsabre7 is offline  
post #916 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 04:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Kagaden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 252
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the replies you guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyTick View Post

I used your image and I also see two arc rainbows just below vertical center, horizontally to the left and right of center. They are fairly faint and I would agree that they appear because of the design, but I wouldn't call it a flaw...just an artifact of this type of projection assembly. I can't imagine that it will cause any pronounced image distortion when viewing normal images/videos.

You have a 61" set also? I'm thinking if this is by design it could be resident only in the 61" models considering Samsung's previous reports of having difficulties creating larger LED displays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moab View Post

I've tried and tried to see the problem but all I see is a perfect white rectangle.
I know I'm getting old but.......
On the plus side what I thought was the problem were actually smudges on my monitor so at least that's clean now.

Under the rectangle do you see any reflection? Also, what size is your HLT set? Glad to hear your smudges were cleanable
Kagaden is offline  
post #917 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 04:24 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
htwaits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 24,803
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnelson2000 View Post

I believe this may be talking about power line frequency rather than video rates. Nothing in the SM says anything about 120Hz though.

You are probably right. I can't wait to see this TV that's 1391 inches wide.

knightsabre7 has pointed out the same thing. It's going to take real experts like Eliab, UMR, David Abrams and others to figure out what these sets are really doing.

Brillian's LCoS set had a 120Hz refresh rate, but wouldn't accept 1080p@24Hz. I think it also wouldn't capture 24fps out of a 1080i@60fps signal. That was a small $8K set. It will be interesting to see who does a 24Hz input times five rptv display first.

Calibration Resources:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

htwaits is offline  
post #918 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 04:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joevfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightsabre7 View Post

I think that's the voltage frequency. The last page of the spec docs on the Samsung site say the same thing under "Power" specifications.

Under "Display Performance" it says "Video display rate: 120Hz", although it is unclear whether this figure takes into account the wobulation or not.

Sorry, I can't create a link yet.

how come it doesnt say that anywhere in the owners manual under specs. it just says "PC resolution 1920x1080@60hz"
joevfx is offline  
post #919 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 04:36 PM
Advanced Member
 
Tim Hess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 546
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Hess View Post

I've contacted crutchfield with my issue(s), I'm awaiting a response - I won't be able to fiddle with the set until tomorrow (I'll snap some pics as well: 360 VGA+Component, HD Cable and an HD-DVD (360) as well).

Crutchy is sending me out a new set ASAP. Excellent time to use that screwdriver...
Tim Hess is offline  
post #920 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 04:46 PM
Member
 
slaizer2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDG View Post

Great write-up. So... if I get this correctly, with two cable/satellite boxes, one can run coax (always "channel 3") from one of the boxes to enable it as the split screen source. I guess it could be in parallel with another component/HDMI run from the same box for normal viewing.

Why no two source PIP? This has been a pretty basic feature on sets for years now.

jdg

Correct I believe if you put the splitter in then ran each split to a cable box,,then one cable box would connect via hdmi/component/etc and the seoncd one would run to the cable (coaxail) connector. Of course this would only be if you wanted to increase the image quality.

I'm not 100% sure if you run coaxial to the coaxial connector if this would dump 480 or 1080i. But with using the 2nd cable box then you would get all your digital channels as well and not just analog. Analog on this big screen looks real crappy as any defect is magnified.

But if your using a cable/dvr box then it might have PIP built into it so i'd just use the PIP form the cable box. Much easier then the TV's PIP setup.
slaizer2000 is offline  
post #921 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 04:51 PM
Member
 
slaizer2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilB View Post

Thank you for the detailed description. I still have one more PIP question that I'd like to be completely clear on. Can the PIP window (ANT or CABLE input) be tuned to a digital channel and displayed on the set? In other words, can the set only display analog channels from the tuner in PIP mode, or can it also tune digital channels?

Thanks again,

-phil

The coaxial cable split i ran directly into the cable coaxial connector on the TV did pick up analog and digital channels. ALot of the digital channels were removed as they were scrambled. But the ones that did stay programmed did appear and were selectable in the pip window.
slaizer2000 is offline  
post #922 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 04:58 PM
Member
 
buckeye83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dulsin View Post

I thought there was a "deep color" feature with HDMI 1.3.
There isn't any other advantage of HDMI 1.3 other than bundled audio/Vid?

HDMI 1.3 spec connector without a set that can also display the expanded "xvyCC" color gamut (deep color) will be meaningless. I'm not certain what the Samsung set you are interested in have regarding the deep color capability or HDMI 1.3 (maybe only the xx89)
buckeye83 is offline  
post #923 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 05:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joevfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,080
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeye83 View Post

HDMI 1.3 spec connector without a set that can also display the expanded "xvyCC" color gamut (deep color) will be meaningless. I'm not certain what the Samsung set you are interested in have regarding the deep color capability or HDMI 1.3 (maybe only the xx89)

deep color and xvycc are two separate things. the 89s can do xvycc but it doesnt say anything really about "deep color"
joevfx is offline  
post #924 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 06:42 PM
Senior Member
 
st_nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 349
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Got mine in today from Tweeter, a week ahead of when they expected to get it to me. Running Xbox 360 through VGA, Motorola DCT-6412 HD STB through HDMI, and Denon DVD-5900 through DVI->HDMI cable. Set all inputs to Movie-Warm1, with the settings found earlier in this thread which seem pretty good for me. Con85/Bri31/Col45/DNieOff

Definite improvement in contrast, at least in part due to better light output, than the HLN set it is replacing. Seems to have more "block noise" and less "mosquito noise" in fast moving HD content over cable. HD-DVD is simply remarkable in how pristine and vibrant it is. Will post if I notice anything else interesting.
st_nick is online now  
post #925 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jonny_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
For those still thinking the 87S has HDMI 1.3, I don't think it does. UMR has pointed out that these sets do use different chipsets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

SiI9125 chip which is HDMI 1.3.

http://www.siliconimage.com/news/pre...se.aspx?id=437

Quote:
Originally Posted by EBee View Post

'These displays' meaning both the 87S and 89S series? Your unclear antecedent is going to send me into premature happy mode if the 87S doesn't have 1.3 as well.

You can chalk me up as a second Austin 'guinea pig', Jeff, if you can't find a donor in H-Town. I should have my set by about the end of next week (barring any last minute remodeling disasters this week).

Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I can tell you these displays use a Silicon Image That comment was based on a drawing for the 89 series. The 87 series uses a MST3369M. This appears to be an older Samsung part. It may not support 1.3.

Also, there is also no mention of xvyCC in the HTLxx87S manual. I've seen a screen shot of the 89S setting where you can turn it on, and it's not there on the 87S menus. Even if the innards are actually 1.3, they've at least turned it off via firmware in this regard.
jonny_H is offline  
post #926 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 06:59 PM
Member
 
TheMightyTick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagaden View Post

You have a 61" set also? I'm thinking if this is by design it could be resident only in the 61" models considering Samsung's previous reports of having difficulties creating larger LED displays.

I do have the HL-T6189S. My smudges wouldn't come off, so they are on the inside. But they really just don't bother me from any distance I would view it from.
TheMightyTick is offline  
post #927 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 07:22 PM
Member
 
Thaedron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Having a HDMI chip that can pass "deep color" has no value until there are media sources, input devices, and displays that contain or process "deep color". Those parts of the chain are somewhere in the undefined future.

Also, for those "needing" HDMI 1.3 please note this "official why you don't need HDMI 1.3" over in the Audio forums.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to have HDMI 1.3 from end to end as well, but my old AVR died, thus I couldn't wait. I picked up a Denon 4306 and am very happy with it. Based on the 1.3 thread linked above I don't believe I'll have any significant issues or be lacking in capabilities at least for a few years.
Thaedron is offline  
post #928 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 07:29 PM
Member
 
buckeye83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by joevfx View Post

deep color and xvycc are two separate things. the 89s can do xvycc but it doesnt say anything really about "deep color"

I don't have first hand experience on this... but Sound & Vision April '07 states "that the xxYCC color gamut is a feature HDMI creator Silicon Image calls "Deep Color" and that each company using it has a unique name for it." So from what we've read in the forum that the xx89S has HDMI 1.3 and xxYCC so with that set you're "future proofed" when the other hardware and viewing material shows up. There seems to be uncertainty regarding the HDMI version in the XX87S model.
buckeye83 is offline  
post #929 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 07:37 PM
Member
 
slaizer2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
someone asked about explaining color gamut in laymans terms. Very hard to do for the average person. Even experts don't understand it all.

Id suggest visiting wikipedia for a description. They also have some good pictures that makes it easier to visualize.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamut

Very basic explanation (i'll try)-

Sunlight - biggest gamut ever. Color spectrum has around 9 colors(red, orange, yellow, yellow-green, green, blu-green, blue, violet, purple, i may have missed or added one)) it can use to make additional colors. No technology can recreate it with todays technology. Displays the most colors and which is what we are used to as we see this every day in real life. This is why TV's/monitors/prints never look like certain colors are right

Indoor lighting - smaller gamut - this is why colors outdoors look different indoors. The light source from indoor lighting has a smaller gamut so it produces a smaller range of colors

TV/monitor - even smaller gamut using RGB (red,green,blue) Also with colors wheels the wheels are supposed to separate white light from a lamp. The blue filter in the wheel should absorb all the light except for the blue. In reality depending on the quality of the wheel and the impurities the blue filter may only let 95% of the blue light through and in addition may let 5% of red, green...etc escape which mixes with the blue. DLP sets that use wheels with 5 or 6 colors in them can produce a larger gamut as now you use 5 or 6 colors to produce other colors. The more colors you can use to make colors the bigger your gamut

LED DLP - Red,Green,Blue LED. Gamut is supposed to be 140% of traditional lamp based DLP. Also seems to be brighter In LED DLP tv. In general LEDs are dimmer than traditional lighting. Since they don't burn as bright as lamps might be why they have a longer half life and lifespan of 20000 hours compared to lamps that are 3000-5000. Since they are dimmer than lamps then why do we get a wider gamut and brighter image? I believe this is because of the color wheel in lamp based DLP. A color wheel is a filter. Due to the quality of the filter and how pure the filter is some of the light is absorbed which shouldn't be and some colors that should be asorbed leak out. Because of this the final result isn't as bright and the color gamut is smaller for lamps based dlp with color wheels.

Compare this to putting sunglasses on. Your basically putting a black/gray filter over your eyes. In doing so colors are muted and brightness is cut down. You can also compare this to a printer. Print something on white paper and the colors look vibrant and robust. The white paper is the lamp and the toner/ink are your filters. Take the same printer and print the job on black paper. You see very little color because the lamp is black. This would be an extreme case of impurities. The black paper is so impure that it diminishes the brightness and color gamut. To a less extreme print the job on blue paper. Now you will see colors. The blue in the paper though is the impurity so it absorbs all colors in the gamut except blue. You will notice the print doesn't look as good as what was done on white.

This is also why you can buy regular white paper or premium bright white papers. The brighter the white paper the better the image quality and color gamut. Also note that premium paper costs more as they have to use the best ingredients and manufacturing techniques to produce the paper with less impurities.

IF manufactures made TV's that were 100% pure white light (can't be done yet) and 100% impurity free color wheels then the TV could produce identical colors to what we see in real life. Also would cost an arm and leg to do and wouldn't be cost effective.

Now picture 3 triangles. Each corner of the triangle represents Red, Blue, or Green. Sunlight is the largest gamut and triangle. Take two of the triangles of smaller size and gamut and center them in the sunlight triangle. You will see these cannot produce colors outside their own triangle. If a color falls outside the triangle then it somehow gets mapped into the triangle for that displays color gamut. To even further complicate this shift one of the smaller triangles in one directions. Now what you will see is this gamut may be able to pick a wider range of colors in 1 corner of the triangle while the other 2 corners move inside the gamut of the other device so now those colors are limited.

Say you have a color called RED 100 that you see in real life outside. If you put this info into your TV and it is within the gamut (triangle) of your TV's display then its perfect. You will think it looks normal on screen. So the bigger the gamut your TV has the better chance the color will be what you are used to seeing. Now if this RED 100 isn't in the gamut for your TV then your TV cannot display this color. So what it does is it has to pick the closest color. Some Color mapping tables will just map this red 100 to the closest red color in the triangle. So now your REd100 may be picked as Red75. Now you look at in on TV and you say whats wrong with the color. Some technology will just map all colors outside the gamut to the closest value and all colors in the gamut stay put. Problem with this is if you already have colors in your scene that use RED75 then now your RED100 is now also RED75. If these colors were next to each other in the scene now you have issues with banding and transition from color to color. Other technologies will take the RED100 and map it to RED75. One formula will look at this and say minus 25. So now all colors that are in the gamut already have 25 subtracted from them. This way we don't get overlap. The REd100 mapped to REd 75. The Red 75 that was in gamut now becomes red 50 (75 minus 25). But this can apply to all color in the gamut so now all your colors look wrong. Another one will use the percentage and not the full value (25). Since colors have to shift and such the best image usually is a screen that has the biggest gamut so no colors have to be shifted.
Anoter method is a look up table where a color scientist looks at the colors that fall outside the color gamut and then make a table that will pick the best match within the gamut. This match may be very close where the average user can't tell it was mapped. Other colors just can't be represented right so they pick the best color which still isn't right. Example would be metallic silver. How often does silver just look gray on monitors/photos/prints.

In addition everything is relative. Everyone eyes perceive color differently. A good red to me may look bad to someone else. If you look at green here in the US it tends to be a darker, fuller vibrant green color. You take that to europe and they go yuk that isn't green. If you take their idea of green and bring it here, it looks lighter and more washed out and we say whats wrong with that?

sRGB is a color gamut that is pretty standard on Monitors/TV. Since the LED DLP can now do a wide gamut (140% more) people may look at wide and be like whats wrong with this. Even though the colors are now more accurate as this wide should better simulate real life we may be so use to seeing sRGB monitors and TV where now we go Whats wrong with this. So this is why they give you the option between selecting what you want and not just letting it do the full tv gamut of Wide.

Again look at the more technical description in Wikipedia and see if it makes more sense.
slaizer2000 is offline  
post #930 of 14896 Old 04-18-2007, 10:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Warhawk71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That large river in South America has dropped their price for the 87 a bit today.
Warhawk71 is offline  
Reply Rear Projection Units

Tags
Tv Lamp Bp96 01795a For Samsung Hlt5076s Hlt5676s Hlt6176s Hlt6176sx Hlt6176 Hlt5676sx Xaa Hlt5076wx
Gear in this thread - 01795a by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off