2007 Samsung LED Owner's Thread (HLT XX87/89S) - Page 310 - AVS Forum
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post #9271 of 14889 Old 12-30-2007, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKTOOTHGRIN View Post

Congrats Tim. I've owned 3 and tested a total of 7. Every single one had a geometry problem, and 1 of 7 had the halo problem. Guess you got lucky.

Anyway, all you have to do is resize the image with Adobe Photoshop or some other image editing software. Guess maybe you didn't have it on hand. Attached is a resized image to 1920x1080 if you need it.

Hmm...my bad. Once I uploaded the photo and checked it, it was in a reduced size. Maybe this site does that on it's own. If that is the case, the original image that I obtained from the same person you did probably had it in the correct size to begin with and didn't realize what happened.

Oh well, you can always resize it, like I had suggested before.

-BLACKTOOTHGRIN
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post #9272 of 14889 Old 12-30-2007, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BLACKTOOTHGRIN View Post

Hmm...my bad. Once I uploaded the photo and checked it, it was in a reduced size. Maybe this site does that on it's own. If that is the case, the original image that I obtained from the same person you did probably had it in the correct size to begin with and didn't realize what happened.

Oh well, you can always resize it, like I had suggested before.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for the quick response!

Tim
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post #9273 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avio View Post

I believe that there is no such thing as a 120Hz Source Input at this time.

I have a guess that is because 60 and 120Hz are indications of display rate, not source rate. AFAIK there are currently no source material produced/encoded/whatever in anything except 24, 30, or 60 fps (PAL frame/filed rates notwithstanding).

ON WOBULATION:
if the DLP chips in these tvs are 960x, and the full 1920 is achieved via wobulation where half the horizontal frame is displayed, then the other half, are we literally talking about the screen being divided down the middle? or is it interlaced horizontally? or something else? The wiki article just confused me more. It said that the corners of the second set of pixels would be aligned with the centers of the first, overlapping. But wouldn't that create less than 1920? Wouldn't the pixels have to be aligned side by side to get 1920 (960x2 opposed to 960x1.5)? Or did I just read it wrong?
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post #9274 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 01:05 AM
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My 89s has no audible fan noise, and the left vent area gets pretty freakin' hot. I had the impression LED tvs would only get warm, not hot.

Is no fan noise and hotness normalor should I add it to the list of things to tell the tech?

also, can anyone identify my "glow" anomaly shown here? The tech said it's something he's never seen before. It almost looks like an image of mountains at dusk...



thanks.
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post #9275 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 06:07 AM
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Hello everyone, I'm new to these forums and can definitely say that I'm excited to be a part of the community. You all have a very good thing going here.

The reason I'm here is because I just purchased an HLT5087S from Amazon yesterday for a great price at $1399.99. I'm very excited, but also nervous because now I have to find a stand and begin the intimidating process of re-thinking my entertainment center.

I didn't like the basic Samsung stand, so I'm looking for something different. Here's what I want:

-Something that could possibly go in a corner (not a necessity)

-Drawers would be nice for remotes and manuals

-Room on the sides for my front speakers. They are about 5" wide, so I would need 10" extra space putting me at about a 56" wide stand. This is also not a necessity but would be nice so I could avoid spending more money on speaker stands.

-Enough room for average size center channel, 5.1 receiver, dvd player, xbox360, CD changer, system selector, and possibly vcr (most stands should have enough I think).

-Preferably less than $250, and from Best Buy would be a bonus. I have about 100 in gift cards from christmas.

-Good height for a comfortable viewing angle

I'm considering this stand from a local furniture store. It's $200.00, but I'm worried it's too tall at about 30".

What do you all think? I'll take any suggestions! Thanks in advance.
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post #9276 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Vader View Post

Yeah, I already loaded the latest firmware, and it had no effect on the 24p option. It's still grayed out on my BD30, meaning I can't select it at all. Again, Panasonic is telling me it's because "the 6189S doesn't do 24p video."

Quote from my previous post:
Possibly firmware in either the Panny, the Sammy, or both. Scenarios incl: P doesnt see flag from S, P doesnt recognize flag AS flag from S, S doesnt have flag at all(*likely*), or is improperly addressed for the Panny to see. I would probably suspect the Sammy,(IMHO) only due to the Sammy NOT being recognized by it's own same branded equipment (or so I have been reading here). The only thing that seems to work is a "forced-mode" output in 24p that is input to the HLT and properly recognized BY the HLT. As for flags and/or "handshaking" for 24p, I bet it doesnt exist in the Sammy firmware at all and has yet to be added....


Vader, the set WILL properly process and display a 24p signal if it is fed one, but "handshake" support or the proverbial "flag" as it were, for autodetection is NOT in the firmware yet. 24p MUST be forced from the source and the Sammy WILL display it. This until Samm adds the flag to the HDMI data stream. Until then it's forced 24p only.
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post #9277 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 06:59 AM
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Avio:
Thank you for the clarification of 120 Hz vis-a-vis DLP displays.

mnilan
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post #9278 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avio View Post

I believe that there is no such thing as a 120Hz Source Input at this time.

I think the best inputs you are going to see with the info button are:

1920x1080@60Hz

1920x1080@24Hz

BTW, the 1080 means 1080p.

Avio

Thanks Avio
what sources are 24Hz?
and if some new LCDs are refreshing at 120Hz, does that mean they are now better at displaying action than DLPs?

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post #9279 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 07:04 AM
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I apologize if it is answered somewhere in this thread, but I havent been able to find it...

I have the HLT5687s. I connected a HTPC (running XP MCE) through HDMI3 and the 2 channel audio. The video card is ATI X1200 and has the pc has HD Audio. I am having 2 issues...

1. There is no audio, at all.
2. When I first start up the computer the screen is purple and what I think is called "overscan" is really bad. But is I switch off the source and then back it appears to correct it self. However there seem to be occasional flickering.

I didnt post this in the HTPC section because I believe it to be a settings issue in the TV, and not the PC.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

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post #9280 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 07:42 AM
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i have comcast now and wanting to know if i can get better picture from a dish. Any suggestions?
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post #9281 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaddev View Post

i have comcast now and wanting to know if i can get better picture from a dish. Any suggestions?

I get the strong impression by regularly reading my city's and area's local HDTV thread that both satellite networks far exceed Comcast cable in picture quality and amount of true HD content. See the following AVS Forum and locate the thread for your area. You may wish to post your question there.

AVS Forum > HDTV > Local HDTV Info and Reception:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=45

BTW, I do not personally subscribe to either cable or satellite; instead I get my DTV and HDTV from Over-The-Air via roof antenna. My reception and quality are great, although the channel offerings are somewhat limited.

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post #9282 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 10:23 AM
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I just received a HLT5687 (believe it's SX not SAX) which I bought from best buy, it was delivered so I let it sit all day saturday and tried it last night. So far everything seems perfect, however I do get buzzing when it is on and so far only in scenes that are active and color (like star fields and such there is no noticeable buzzing). I haven't honestly read the whole thread and did do a search in this thread on buzzing and read a cpl of those posts. Is this something that has been found to be a problem with the set or noise from "dirty" power? Not really sure I want to chance a return just to get another set with more problems. Has the buzzing been found to go away after awhile?


Thanks
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post #9283 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flak View Post

I just received a HLT5687 (believe it's SX not SAX) which I bought from best buy, it was delivered so I let it sit all day saturday and tried it last night. So far everything seems perfect, however I do get buzzing when it is on and so far only in scenes that are active and color (like star fields and such there is no noticeable buzzing). I haven't honestly read the whole thread and did do a search in this thread on buzzing and read a cpl of those posts. Is this something that has been found to be a problem with the set or noise from "dirty" power? Not really sure I want to chance a return just to get another set with more problems. Has the buzzing been found to go away after awhile?


Thanks

Just do a search on "buzzing" at it will come up. But.....I'll save you the trouble (this time).

Exchange it for a new one. The LED Drive is bad (probably a short in one of the drivers, there was on mine) and will need to be replaced either way. Just have BB switch it out and save yourself the hassle of a service call.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

Gamertag: One Big Wizz
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post #9284 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 10:40 AM
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I just got my halo problem fixed. The tech called me about 45 minutes ago and said he'd be on his way. I asked him what part he was bringing and he said the mainboard. I told him there was a service bulletin for the blue halo problem and that's what he needed, and he said he had that part and would grab it. He came out, I showed him a couple examples, and he was a bit concerned because mine wasn't as obvious as others. Still he disassembled the TV, took out the old piece which was very reflective and put in the flat black one, and all the reflections went away. Even some that I didn't realize were related. Now I have to recalibrate since he did reset it to defaults while going through the system menu and bringing up the test images. Oh well, no bigge, it took him all of 20 minutes and now things are great.

Download my IR hex codes for the Denon AVR-4810ci and other Denon receivers here.
For Logitech Harmony support, ask Logitech for the Denon receiver in the account kmickunas.

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post #9285 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flak View Post

I just received a HLT5687 (believe it's SX not SAX) ... I do get buzzing when it is on and so far only in scenes that are active and color (like star fields and such there is no noticeable buzzing). I haven't honestly read the whole thread and did do a search in this thread on buzzing and read a cpl of those posts. Is this something that has been found to be a problem with the set or noise from "dirty" power? Not really sure I want to chance a return just to get another set with more problems. Has the buzzing been found to go away after awhile?

The buzzing you are experiencing has been reported by a significant number of owners in this thread. You report it gets more intense with brighter scenes. Other owners have reported that service techs consider it a defect that will not get better. It requires either a repair or an exchange.

Good luck. Avio
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post #9286 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 01:13 PM
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Has anyone hooked up the sound to the variable output. So when changing the sound level it changes the volume of the tv using the tv's volume control. I don't see the variable listed in the owners manual, but I have seen it listed on other websites advertising this tv.
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post #9287 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiyman View Post

Has anyone hooked up the sound to the variable output. So when changing the sound level it changes the volume of the tv using the tv's volume control. I don't see the variable listed in the owners manual, but I have seen it listed on other websites advertising this tv.

Are you talking about the Automatic Volume control? If so it's on page 37 of the manual.
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post #9288 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avio View Post

I get the strong impression by regularly reading my city's and area's local HDTV thread that both satellite networks far exceed Comcast cable in picture quality and amount of true HD content. See the following AVS Forum and locate the thread for your area. You may wish to post your question there.

AVS Forum > HDTV > Local HDTV Info and Reception:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=45

BTW, I do not personally subscribe to either cable or satellite; instead I get my DTV and HDTV from Over-The-Air via roof antenna. My reception and quality are great, although the channel offerings are somewhat limited.

Avio

I have had DirecTV for nearly 10 years, and I can say without hesitation that it has far better pq than cable, (as does Dishnet work I suspect).
Verizon FiOS is the only service I know of that has better, or similiar pq.

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post #9289 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kloc View Post

Are you talking about the Automatic Volume control? If so it's on page 37 of the manual.


Not the Automatic volume control. I am wondering about the variable outs on the TV. I am assuming that it has them, but when looking at the owners manual I can't find them. I currently have the Sony A3000 that has the variable/fixed output which works really slick. I just have to go into the audio settings and turn off the internal speakers and the tv volume control will then control the amp's volume. I used to have the Samsung and never did figure out how to use the variable. When I turned the internal speakers off and then tried changing the volume on the tv it would give me the message that that feature was not available. So what was the point of turning the internal speakers off.
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post #9290 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saintjo View Post

I apologize if it is answered somewhere in this thread, but I havent been able to find it...

I have the HLT5687s. I connected a HTPC (running XP MCE) through HDMI3 and the 2 channel audio. The video card is ATI X1200 and has the pc has HD Audio. I am having 2 issues...

1. There is no audio, at all.
2. When I first start up the computer the screen is purple and what I think is called "overscan" is really bad. But is I switch off the source and then back it appears to correct it self. However there seem to be occasional flickering.

I didnt post this in the HTPC section because I believe it to be a settings issue in the TV, and not the PC.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

1. i don't have this TV yet (getting it Wednesday) but you mentioned you have HD audio out connected to the TV via i'm guessing 2 RCA cables? or 2 to 1 RCA cables? if that's the case then i'm 99.9% sure you can't output HD audio that way, only way would be HDMI(note HDMI from PC to TV won't give you audio), Coaxial or optical.
Only thing i could suggest without seeing what settings you have on your pc is to use normal speaker output from your pc then you might get audio...or alternatively use one the inputs i mentioned above and connect to a receiver if you have one.

2. as for the video it's very possible output to your TV simply won't show the bootup sequence (often only see image once logged into OS) and for the flickering check your refresh rate. i think for this tv it should be at 60hz that might be causing the flicker..or your pc can't handle the resolution you've set for your connection to your tv, if refresh rate doesn't help change the output resolution to 1280x720 or something similar
hope this helps as i'm mostly guessing!

It's all about the sound!
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post #9291 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by blackstar79 View Post

i don't have this TV yet (getting it Wednesday) but you mentioned you have HD audio out connected to the TV via i'm guessing 2 RCA cables? or 2 to 1 RCA cables? if that's the case then i'm 99.9% sure you can't output HD audio that way, only way would be HDMI(note HDMI from PC to TV won't give you audio), Coaxial or optical.
Only thing i could suggest without seeing what settings you have on your pc is to use normal speaker output from your pc then you might get audio...or alternatively use one the inputs i mentioned above and connect to a receiver if you have one.

correct, 2 RCA cables out of the PC going into the tv HDMI3/DVI corresponding inputs. it worked with another computer not using HD Audio, so i know HDMI3/DVI can take video through hdmi and audio through RCA.

currently I am outputing them to a reciever from the PC using the same cables. i just would like them to run through the tv as well.

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post #9292 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiyman View Post

Not the Automatic volume control. I am wondering about the variable outs on the TV. I am assuming that it has them, but when looking at the owners manual I can't find them. I currently have the Sony A3000 that has the variable/fixed output which works really slick.

Out of all the material I've read I haven't seen anything about a variable sound output on the TV. I've read multiple reviews, all the information on the Samsung Website, and I've read through the entire manual. Haven't seen anything about it so I really couldn't help you with that.
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post #9293 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kloc View Post

Out of all the material I've read I haven't seen anything about a variable sound output on the TV. I've read multiple reviews, all the information on the Samsung Website, and I've read through the entire manual. Haven't seen anything about it so I really couldn't help you with that.


That is what I was afraid of. I didn't think there was a variable output, but on CC website it lists that it has the variable ouput. Don't know why they would not have it. But that is pretty much the only thing I don't like about the Samsung. I am still deciding on whether to return the Sony because of excessive fan noise and going back to the Samsung since the purple halo prism is now history.
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post #9294 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEDme View Post

... ON WOBULATION:
if the DLP chips in these tvs are 960x, and the full 1920 is achieved via wobulation where half the horizontal frame is displayed, then the other half, are we literally talking about the screen being divided down the middle? or is it interlaced horizontally? or something else? The wiki article just confused me more. It said that the corners of the second set of pixels would be aligned with the centers of the first, overlapping. But wouldn't that create less than 1920? Wouldn't the pixels have to be aligned side by side to get 1920 (960x2 opposed to 960x1.5)? Or did I just read it wrong?

The following may answer your questions:

How DLP technology works.
http://www.dlp.com/tech/what.aspx

See How DLP Works: Launch the [Flash] demo
http://www.dlp.com/includes/demo_flash.aspx

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLP.com View Post


[Tech Comparison of DLP, LCD, LCoS and CRT]

... Both 1080p and some 720p DLP televisions use a technique called wobulation to achieve their stated native resolutions. With wobulation, which Samsung calls SmoothPicture, the DLP chips have half as many physical pixels (a 1080p chip has 960x1080 pixels). A tiny mirror or lens moves rapidly back and forth to alternately create the first and second halves of the image and achieve 1920x1080 resolution. Wobulation can produce good results, and on some 1080p TVs, it can technically deliver all 1920 lines of horizontal resolution ...

http://www.dlp.com/downloads/?ref=/d...ison_guide.pdf

Avio
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post #9295 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s.hasenauer@veri View Post

Thanks Avio

what sources are 24Hz?

The most common sources of 24Hz for purposes of our xx87/89S RPTV's are HD/BR DVD Players that have a 24Hz output mode. Many of these have failed to produce a 24Hz picture on our TV's due to hardware or firmware incompatibilities. The most notable 24Hz source that owners report actually works with our sets is the PS3. Both the player and the TV require updated firmware, and the PS3 must be "forced" into 24Hz output.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.hasenauer@veri View Post

... and if some new LCDs are refreshing at 120Hz, does that mean they are now better at displaying action than DLPs?

The following quote from the Q&A in the first post, first page of this thread may address your question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny_H View Post


Samsung quotes a 16 microsecond response time. Isn't that slower than most LCDs?
Wikipedia says that typical LCD response times (how fast the pixels can change colors) is 8-16 milliseconds. Samsung claims a 16 microsecond response time. There are 1000 microseconds in one millisecond. To compare apples to apples, the typical LCD response time is 500 to 1000 times slower than what Samsung is claiming for these DLP sets. Keep in mind that this does not include the time that it takes to process the signal (input lag). To dumb it down, think of it this way:

1. Video signal goes to TV set.
2. TV set processes signal and converts it to 1920x1080 pixels to display on screen (input lag). The prettier you want the picture, the longer it will take.
3. Light engine throws picture up on the screen (response time).

Game mode cuts down time in step 2. Obviously if the set had an overall response time of 16 microseconds, we wouldn't need game mode. What it does mean is that the screen itself can keep up with any kind of fast moving action. Here's some more food for thought. Let's take Samsung's quoted 120 Hz refresh rate. You'll get a new screen every 8.33 milliseconds. Analogy: I could have the fastest drumroll in existence, but if I'm only allowed to hit the drum once a second, you're only gonna hear that drum once a second.

Avio
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post #9296 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim256 View Post

Stupid question here.. What is the proper way to use these images? I copied them to a USB memory card, plugged it into the TV, and displayed the images.. they were all very small on my HL-T5087SAX, so I had to zoom in to have them fill the screen.

The grid and halo test patterns that I designed were both created with a size of 1920x1080.

Get them from here:
grid.jpg
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post #9297 of 14889 Old 12-31-2007, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKTOOTHGRIN View Post

Congrats Tim. I've owned 3 and tested a total of 7. Every single one had a geometry problem, and 1 of 7 had the halo problem. Guess you got lucky.

Anyway, all you have to do is resize the image with Adobe Photoshop or some other image editing software. Guess maybe you didn't have it on hand. Attached is a resized image to 1920x1080 if you need it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKTOOTHGRIN View Post

Hmm...my bad. Once I uploaded the photo and checked it, it was in a reduced size. Maybe this site does that on it's own. If that is the case, the original image that I obtained from the same person you did probably had it in the correct size to begin with and didn't realize what happened.

Oh well, you can always resize it, like I had suggested before.


Whoops, You're both right, I didn't know the images would resize as I had gotten them from the site here and they displayed properly on the set. My double bad. Happy New Year every body. Thanks for all your help through the year.
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post #9298 of 14889 Old 01-01-2008, 07:28 AM
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I have had my 5687 SAX for about 2 weeks. I have a very faint halo that I have only noticed on a black screen. The green push I am seeing is much more of a distraction for me. I searched this thread and found a mention of a diffuser to correct the green push issue. Has anyone had this service preformed or have a service bulletin to reference? If you have had success using calibration to correct green push can you post the setting you used to fix it. Overall the set looks great and the WAF is high
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post #9299 of 14889 Old 01-01-2008, 11:27 AM
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I finally got DVI/HDMI working on HDMI3 input channel by first hooking the video card to a regular VGA monitor, uninstalling and reinstalling ATI drivers.
Then I got both monitors going (VGA + Samsung), and then swapping the primary monitor to the Samsung.
After that, disconnected the VGA monitor, and rebooted without it.
Then started upping the resolution, and got to 1920x1080p @ 60Hz.
Using powerstrip, I made a custom resolution so there is no overscan. Looks good in Movie2 mode.

I'm currently doing a few spectraphotometer runs for color, greyscale tracking and gamma evaluations, in preparation for a "go" at a service menu calibration guide (I've heard there are some problems with the HL-T SM calibration, and I may wish for the uber-tweakable HL-S SM after trying this...)

My Preliminary Data from the spectraphotometer (Spyder2 probe) for Movie 2 setting defaults in the user video menu:
Best Gamma: -3 is so far the best gamma setting vs. default 0, but still need to test -2, -1, +1, +2, +3, but they all look worse (flattest curve to ideal 2.2)
Best My White Balance: -10 (least Delta E, and closest to 6500K, at 7230K)

This is going to take a long time to sort out with tweaks. Once I get into the Service Menu, I will see if the default Dynamic Setting is alterable and "sticks"...

This is slow going, but a pleasurable way to spend the New Year's Day for me.

Cheers,
Doc

Edit: I just finished my first round of Service Menu calibration, and had to re-learn the menu structure and what everything does vs. my old HL-S6188 set.
So, after about 4 hours of experimenting and tweaking:

Very nice D65 whites, good greyscale tracking, and near spot-on color!
Tools: Spyder2 probe, HCFR freeware, XBOX HD-DVD player 1080i over component, DVE-HD disc

Using the Service Menu, I "re-calibrate" the default "Dynamic/Cool1/Wide colorspace" settings to be correct, so I won't have to futz with the user menu to get everything looking good again.

Now, I just have to calibrate DVD 480i, PC inputs with GetGray calibration DVD, and copy the values over to the TV settings (SD and HD)



See calibration diagrams below (3rd and 4th images)

Now, need to tweak the Gamma... why is the Gamma setting greyed out and set to the crummy OEM(4) gamma??????? Will a firmware update solve that?


Cheers,
Doc
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post #9300 of 14889 Old 01-01-2008, 03:18 PM
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Has anyone gotten Samsung to fix the bending issue on the corners of the 6187SAX?

How could a company put out a TV with a major design flaw like that?
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