2007 Samsung LED Owner's Thread (HLT XX87/89S) - Page 331 - AVS Forum
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post #9901 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 02:54 PM
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i have a hlt6187s - and have had zero problems. My grip like others is the inability to use audio out when using hdmi in BUT the picture quality more than makes up for this.
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post #9902 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by room112 View Post

Why doesn't Samsung advertise this? Their support site sez 20k hrs for a 79 series (which, I realize is last years model, or something). I can't find one piece of literature on their website actually stating lifespan

TI's website: http://www.dlp.com/hdtv/led_hdtvs.aspx
states up to 60k hrs.

I'm not arguing w/JohnAV, just wish it was stated clearly somewhere

On the older Samsung HLS-5679W I remember on the data sheet said 20,000 hours, and when Samsung offered data sheets for the xx87S or xx89s series you saw something like this sentence "Thanks to a new, long-lasting LED light engine, the full HD (1920 x 1080p) picture of the HL-T5689S DLP® HDTV will last as long as the set."

Those data sheets are gone now. Some comments like that exist on the HTDV Invovations URL. Look at 87 series, says " with no lamps to replace".

Your right Samsung needs to specifically state this fact, instead of hiding it.

Oppo Beta Group
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post #9903 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talbain View Post

well there's your trouble right there. native should be "off". i have the exact same setup (except replace a Yamaha for the Onkyo). i just output everything to 1080i and that's that.

the thing is, when a 720p source is played (via ps3/360), the tv switches to 16:9 mode. but when i switch back to the hr20, it goes back to just scan...

Just to let you know, I'm still unable to select "Just Scan," even with native off on my HR20 and 1080i the only one selected. Obviously "Just Scan" is limited.
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post #9904 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 03:51 PM
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Here's a pic of my setup.
Sam HLT6187sax
H/K AVR 445
Dishnetwork 510 DVR, Upgrading to the Vip722 tomorrow.
Toshiba HD-A3
Infinity Primus speakers all around.
Xbox 360 (below H/K)



Built the Entertainment Center myself. It was an interesting project.
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post #9905 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 04:15 PM
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I have recently noticed slight "flashing or flickering" on BD's I watch with the PS3. I have tried standard DVD's (upscaled and not) and cannot reproduce it. It also does not appear during gameplay. I have tried several BD's and notice it in all of them. It is most noticable on skin and in backgrounds. I have never noticed this before. I have the PS3 going to an Onkyo 605 which goes to my Samsung LED DLP (HLT5089S), all through HDMI. I have tried switching cables and sending the PS3 direct to the set and it does not fix the problem. I have also tried it on my older Samsung DLP and had the same results. I am fairly certain it is not any of my components and not the BD's. Does anyone know if the set could be causing this or how to fix it? Any help is appreciated.
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post #9906 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goblue1 View Post

I have recently noticed slight "flashing or flickering" on BD's I watch with the PS3. I have tried standard DVD's (upscaled and not) and cannot reproduce it. It also does not appear during gameplay. I have tried several BD's and notice it in all of them. It is most noticable on skin and in backgrounds. I have never noticed this before. I have the PS3 going to an Onkyo 605 which goes to my Samsung LED DLP (HLT5089S), all through HDMI. I have tried switching cables and sending the PS3 direct to the set and it does not fix the problem. I have also tried it on my older Samsung DLP and had the same results. I am fairly certain it is not any of my components and not the BD's. Does anyone know if the set could be causing this or how to fix it? Any help is appreciated.

The above issue started when I got a replacement set for my original HLT5089S, due to extreme bowing and SSE. When I got the new set, it was buzzing pretty loud immediately. I can make the buzzing louder or quieter by turning the contrast up and down. The tech came out and replaced the powerd supply and the LED engine, I think. When that didn't work, they ordered a DMD and LED box. I am still waiting on those parts. Is it possible that the set could be causing this slight flashing of the picture? I am starting to notice on things other than blu-rays.
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post #9907 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goblue1 View Post

I have recently noticed slight "flashing or flickering" on BD's I watch with the PS3. ... Does anyone know if the set could be causing this or how to fix it? ...

Have you tried the following "starter settings?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avio View Post

Check out these links:

Avical's starter settings for Samsung HL-Txx87/89 DLP
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=866534

Avical starter settings (website):
http://www.avical.com/articles/samsu..._settings.html

Samsung HL-T6187S 61" Best Settings Poll/Survey...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=903513

Avio
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post #9908 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avio View Post

Have you tried the following "starter settings?"



Avio

I will try them tonight, but I have had the same settings for a while and I did not notice this effect in my previous model. It seems to coincide with the new model and the buzzing.

If I remeber they seemed to be very dull. I realize that they are "accurate", but I prefer a little "pop" to the picture. These are what I am using now:

Mode - Standard
Contrast - 70
Brightness - 52
Sharpness - 0
Color - 55
Tint - G51/R49
Color Tone - Normal
Detailed Settings
*Black Adjust - Medium
*Dynamic Contrast - Off
*Gamma - 0
*White Balance - 0
*My Color Control - 15/15/15
*Edge Enhancement - Off
*xvYCC - Off
Size - Just Scan
Digital NR - Off
Active Color - Off
DNIe - On
Color Gamut - Wide
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post #9909 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 05:48 PM
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I have the HLT-6187sax and so far, I LOVE IT! I have a major/minor issue though....I have a phillips BDP-9000 Blu-Ray Player and a Toshiba HD-A3 HD-DVD player. Both are connected to a Pioneer VSX-810S receiver (I know, old, but it works for me.)

I can set the Optical output of the Toshiba to Bitstream SPDIF (for my receiver) and it still sends PCM through HDMI to the tv. This is exactly what I want so my wife can EASILY whatch HD DVD's with sound through the speakers, and I can turn down the TV volume and have Bitstream ready to go for the surround sound system.

Unfortunately, when I change the Blu-Ray player over to Bitstream, I get a "your tv is not compatable with this output format....blah, blah, blah." and it does work, but I loose the ability to hear audio through the speakers. Which is unacceptable to the wife that just wants to put a movie in and watch it through the Tv. AND, unacceptable to me to have to go and switch over the output each time I use it, and back when I am done to make it easier for her.

My question is....is their a way to do this with my current setup???

I can think of a few options, but I don't know if they are available or will work.
Here is what I had in mind...
1. Connect the rca audio outputs of the Blu-Ray player to the TV. This would be an easy fix if I can get the TV to look for this audio connection while still being connected through HDMI for Video.
2. Do what I said above, but make an alternate connection for video via component and RCA audio for her and have my harmony switch to HDMI for me. Can this be done without changing settings constantly from the Player????
3. Firmware upgrade for the TV?? (I have the latest firmware for the Player.)
4. Unknown solution....

What do you all think of what I am asking? What is the best solution?

I am wanting bitstream so that way my receiver will switch to DTS/Dolby Digital ES and decode the signal. When not on bitstream, my receiver is just doing the standard dolby surround 5.1 and not the digital.
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post #9910 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahicks View Post

I have the HLT-6187sax and so far, I LOVE IT! I have a major/minor issue though....I have a phillips BDP-9000 Blu-Ray Player and a Toshiba HD-A3 HD-DVD player. Both are connected to a Pioneer VSX-810S receiver (I know, old, but it works for me.)

I can set the Optical output of the Toshiba to Bitstream SPDIF (for my receiver) and it still sends PCM through HDMI to the tv. This is exactly what I want so my wife can EASILY whatch HD DVD's with sound through the speakers, and I can turn down the TV volume and have Bitstream ready to go for the surround sound system.

Unfortunately, when I change the Blu-Ray player over to Bitstream, I get a "your tv is not compatable with this output format....blah, blah, blah." and it does work, but I loose the ability to hear audio through the speakers. Which is unacceptable to the wife that just wants to put a movie in and watch it through the Tv. AND, unacceptable to me to have to go and switch over the output each time I use it, and back when I am done to make it easier for her.

My question is....is their a way to do this with my current setup???

I can think of a few options, but I don't know if they are available or will work.
Here is what I had in mind...
1. Connect the rca audio outputs of the Blu-Ray player to the TV. This would be an easy fix if I can get the TV to look for this audio connection while still being connected through HDMI for Video.
2. Do what I said above, but make an alternate connection for video via component and RCA audio for her and have my harmony switch to HDMI for me. Can this be done without changing settings constantly from the Player????
3. Firmware upgrade for the TV?? (I have the latest firmware for the Player.)
4. Unknown solution....

What do you all think of what I am asking? What is the best solution?


If Samsung wasn't so cheap and would have put variable outputs on this TV you would be set to go. I had the Sony with the variable outputs and it really worked nice. It was really simple.
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post #9911 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiyman View Post

If Samsung wasn't so cheap and would have put variable outputs on this TV you would be set to go. I had the Sony with the variable outputs and it really worked nice. It was really simple.

While I agree, I don't know if this would help me with my current situation. I do not want to pass any audio from the TV. I only want to send Audio to the TV speakers that it can decode no matter what and still be able to send Bitstream audio from my blu-ray player via optical connection to my receiver at the same time. (or some other compatible solution.)

What would have been even better for Samsung to not be so cheap and do is pass the full digital audio bitstream of what ever is being send to it via HDMI thru the optical output jack of the TV. Then I would be good to go, or at least better to go...LOL
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post #9912 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahicks View Post

While I agree, I don't know if this would help me with my current situation. I do not want to pass any audio from the TV. I only want to send Audio to the TV speakers that it can decode no matter what and still be able to send Bitstream audio from my blu-ray player via optical connection to my receiver at the same time. (or some other compatible solution.)

What would have been even better for Samsung to not be so cheap and do is pass the full digital audio bitstream of what ever is being send to it via HDMI thru the optical output jack of the TV. Then I would be good to go, or at least better to go...LOL

I don't know if any TV passes the full digital audio bitstream to the optical output. I could be wrong there though. But I do know that the Sony A3000 wouldn't do it either. Seems to be kind of a waste to put the optical out on the TV doesn't it.
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post #9913 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by hiyman View Post

I don't know if any TV passes the full digital audio bitstream to the optical output. I could be wrong there though. But I do know that the Sony A3000 wouldn't do it either. Seems to be kind of a waste to put the optical out on the TV doesn't it.


A WHOLE other thread, but a question i wold love answered based on what your telling me ( I DESPERATELY need my original question answered) But will the TV's optical digital out pass the dolby digital 5.1 encoding when the TV's digital tuner is being used for OTA HD???????? It would seem REALLY silly if it would only pass 2 channel audio in this setup. If that is the case, then wouldn't people need an outboard digital tuner to get the full benefits of HD TV sound?
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post #9914 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 07:50 PM
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mahicks,
I think you might be able to use the HDMI3 input (the one that has the RCA inputs also), for Blu-Ray.

I dont know why it works for the Toshiba, but not the philips.

My A3 works the same way.
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post #9915 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 08:21 PM
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ma....

"But will the TV's optical digital out pass the dolby digital 5.1 encoding when the TV's digital tuner is being used for OTA HD"

This is pretty clear in the manual by the way. And you can d/l it on-line as well so it isn't that hard to read it.

The only way the optical port will pass dolby digital is if it is from the internal tuner. So yes. But it isn't limited to hd. If you have a dolby signal on a sd-signal it will pass that too. The key is if you are using the internal tuner.

"What would have been even better for Samsung to not be so cheap"

B4 you go getting on Samsung I don't think this has anything to do with them but rather copy protection stuff. IF the tv even could pass the full hd audio stuff out the optical port, you could connect it to any optical in recording device. You can't get the hd audio on the optical but IF you could and IF the audio passed out the optical port as a pass through type thing, you would have a way to record it untouched. So becareful about dumping this on Samsungs door. I've looked at the Mit/Sony/Samsung. None of them are pass through devices and only allow dd on the digital out from the internal tuner.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #9916 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 08:23 PM
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"I think you might be able to use the HDMI3 input (the one that has the RCA inputs also), for Blu-Ray."

There is something about this port though like IF there is audio on the hdmi the analog in jacks are disabled? I'm not totally sure but they may only work if you are coming from a DVI source with a dvd-hdmi cable so the audio is not on the cable. I am not where my manual is so I'm not 100 percent sure.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #9917 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 08:31 PM
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bahama...


"My grip like others is the inability to use audio out when using hdmi"

Do you mean HD Audio? I get plain vanilla audio out from an HDMI input.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #9918 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahicks View Post

A WHOLE other thread, but a question i wold love answered based on what your telling me ( I DESPERATELY need my original question answered) But will the TV's optical digital out pass the dolby digital 5.1 encoding when the TV's digital tuner is being used for OTA HD???????? It would seem REALLY silly if it would only pass 2 channel audio in this setup. If that is the case, then wouldn't people need an outboard digital tuner to get the full benefits of HD TV sound?


I don't know the answer to your first question, but you are actually right about passing dolby digital from the optical out with the tv's digital tuner. I haven't tried it but that is the way I though others have said that it works. So I guess I was wrong when I said the optical out was worthless. It is just worthless unless you are using the tv's tuner.
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post #9919 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 08:39 PM
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mahi....

May want to post in the forum for your bluray player. Seems to me if you can set it to HDMI out as PCM and optical/coax out to bitstream wouldn't that work? You won't get any of the HD Audio using any optical/coax out anyway.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #9920 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 08:39 PM
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ICBM....

Nice work. Looks like you did a good job. Did you work from a set of plans?

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #9921 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

ma....

"But will the TV's optical digital out pass the dolby digital 5.1 encoding when the TV's digital tuner is being used for OTA HD"

This is pretty clear in the manual by the way. And you can d/l it on-line as well so it isn't that hard to read it.

The only way the optical port will pass dolby digital is if it is from the internal tuner. So yes. But it isn't limited to hd. If you have a dolby signal on a sd-signal it will pass that too. The key is if you are using the internal tuner.

"What would have been even better for Samsung to not be so cheap"

B4 you go getting on Samsung I don't think this has anything to do with them but rather copy protection stuff. IF the tv even could pass the full hd audio stuff out the optical port, you could connect it to any optical in recording device. You can't get the hd audio on the optical but IF you could and IF the audio passed out the optical port as a pass through type thing, you would have a way to record it untouched. So becareful about dumping this on Samsungs door. I've looked at the Mit/Sony/Samsung. None of them are pass through devices and only allow dd on the digital out from the internal tuner.

I agree. I don't think it is Samsung's fault. Like I said earlier, I had the Sony and it was the same as the Samsung.
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post #9922 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stossel View Post

Thank you for the feedback. I have resolved the pure black screen flicker (~5Hz) issue.

Sir, thank you for this information. I have been a long time lurker and would like to mention how helpful your posts generally are.


How did you resolve the black flicker issue??? It's driving me crazy.
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post #9923 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 09:22 PM
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Manual link

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/co...01L03_0309.pdf

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #9924 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

B4 you go getting on Samsung I don't think this has anything to do with them but rather copy protection stuff. IF the tv even could pass the full hd audio stuff out the optical port, you could connect it to any optical in recording device. You can't get the hd audio on the optical but IF you could and IF the audio passed out the optical port as a pass through type thing, you would have a way to record it untouched. So becareful about dumping this on Samsungs door. I've looked at the Mit/Sony/Samsung. None of them are pass through devices and only allow dd on the digital out from the internal tuner.

I don't agree with your copy protection hypothesis. Samsung chose to block HDMI audio input to the Optical Audio Output despite the fact that this is allowed under the terms of HDCP licensing . My Calibre Vantage HD2 supports it and any other manufacturer can easily comply with the HDMI and HDCP licensing rules and do the same. My post at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=7289 summarizes the situation and Samsung's flip flop on the issue.

If you are interested, you can search all my posts with the title "Surround sound 5.1 from an HDMI source" on this topic. They begin in August 2007, when I decided to read the HDCP License Agreement and found that there was a specific exception that allows devices to send HDMI audio input over a Digital Audio Output as long as channel status bit 2 in the S/PDIF control word is set to zero in each output audio packet. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post11409693
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post #9925 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 09:25 PM
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ma...

The AV out jacks audio look to be variable.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #9926 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 09:33 PM
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"I don't agree with your copy protection hypothesis."

Ok. More power to you. Just reading your brief description though of the necessary parameters to keep it legit, I can certainly see why companies decided not to mess with it. And while it may not totally be about copy protection, even in your own explanation copy protection sure is haning round the matter. Isn't there a bandwidth issue as well for the full HD Audio over optical?

Even if the law technically allows for the optical out to pass through dd from external sources its not like any other company is jumping to provide this feature. This is hardly one of those things we can MAKE Samsung do.

Would I like to see it? Sure. Would make connecting cable box much easier, could go to TV with HDMI, out optical to receiver and be done with it. I'm not holding my breath. One can certainly see where the idea that limiting the optical out is about copy protection however.

By the way I emailed them. Drop down model list still does not include the hl-t models.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #9927 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

"I don't agree with your copy protection hypothesis."

Ok. More power to you. Just reading your brief description though of the necessary parameters to keep it legit, I can certainly see why companies decided not to mess with it. And while it may not totally be about copy protection, even in your own explanation copy protection sure is haning round the matter. Isn't there a bandwidth issue as well for the full HD Audio over optical?

Even if the law technically allows for the optical out to pass through dd from external sources its not like any other company is jumping to provide this feature. This is hardly one of those things we can MAKE Samsung do.

Would I like to see it? Sure. Would make connecting cable box much easier, could go to TV with HDMI, out optical to receiver and be done with it. I'm not holding my breath. One can certainly see where the idea that limiting the optical out is about copy protection however.

Samsung's first FAQ on this subject at http://ars.samsung.com/customer/usa/...D=85288&ARS_ID read:

Quote:


The HDMI input on Samsung TVs can not pass digital 5.1 Surround Sound to the Digital Optical output jack. This is not a limitation of the TV (technically, it could be done), but instead a limitation imposed by laws and regulations. The TV can not pass straight digital signal because to do so would violate copyright laws and copy protection regulations.

So, if you want digital video and digital 5.1 sound, you must connect the video output of your source to your TV using DVI or HDMI, and connect the digital audio output from your source directly to the digital audio input of your Home Theater System or Stereo.

I responded by marking my statisfaction as Very Poor and provided all the information in the feedback textarea from my post at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post11409693. Samsung has not replied to me, as of this writing, but they have changed the web page to remove mention of laws and regulation. Recently they changed it again to say:

Quote:


The HDMI input on Samsung TVs can not pass digital 5.1 Surround Sound to the Digital Optical output jack.

If you want digital video and digital 5.1 sound, you must connect the video output of your source to your TV using DVI or HDMI, and connect the digital audio output from your source directly to the digital audio input of your Home Theater System or Stereo.

Digital Optical Does Not Work For All Sources
On a number of Samsung TVs, the Digital Audio Output works only if you have selected either RF or Antenna In as your video and audio source. If you have selected any other video/audio source - AV, S-Video, Component, PCI, HDMI - the Digital Audio Output will not work and will be grayed out on the menu.

On other Samsung TVs, the Digital Audio Output works if you have selected RF, Antenna In, AV, or S-Video as your video and audio source. The signal can be either digital or analog. However, if you have selected Component, DVI, or HDMI, Digital Audio Output will either not work or will be grayed out on the menu, or both.

If you have connected a source (a DVD player, for example) to your TV using the Component, DVI, or HDMI jacks, and you want to output the audio from that source to an amplifier or Home Theater system, you must connect the audio output jacks from the source directly to the amplifier or Home Theater system.

There is no bandwidth problem sending the Digital Audio Output Surround Sound from over the air broadcasts.

I gave you one manufacturer who has been doing it for years. And as a programmer, I can assure you that setting a bit to zero is no harder than setting it to one.

It may have been their ignorance that prevented them from doing it before August 2007. After they have been informed of the exemption in the HDCP license, they are willfully withholding the feature. There is no law or license that is keeping them from creating new firmware to support it now.
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post #9928 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 10:21 PM
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JS,
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post #9929 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 10:27 PM
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"There is no law or license that is keeping them from..."

JR,

I don't know if there is or isn't. I'm not saying you are wrong. Just saying I don't know. What I do know that the way things are unfolding right now with copy protection law suits, etc., if I were a company I would be staying safely and far away from any potential law suits regarding the matter. While I'm not justifying Samsung's original position, which originally was about the legal stuff, I'm simply saying I at least understand their position. I am sure that they would have to be absolutely sure there are not even gray areas where someone could go after them. Lawyers will go after everyone in the food chain looking for the deepest pockets. IF there were any way Samsung could remotely be a target for copy protection law suits, you gotta know they are simply not going to enable dd pass through on the optical port. Again I am not trying to split hairs and God knows I'm not an attorney in any way shape or form. I've just watched some of these copy protection issues and in doing so at least I sympathize with Samsung's position. In this day and age even IF Samsung would in reality not be violating any copy protection laws, if it appeared they were and to prove they weren't required a several layer deep defense, it could still cost them immensely in defending themselves. I had a Mit and a Sony that I played with. Neither of them allowed dolby digital pass through other than their own internal tuners. It is hardly the norm that these TV's are allowing the pass through of external devices. It may be on a unit here or there. But it certainly isn't the norm.

I do commend you on your effort and research. Obviously you have done a complete and thorough job. I did email them and it would be nice to see it changed. I'm just not holding my breath. I hope others will email them as well taking advantage of your work and links you provided.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #9930 of 14889 Old 01-25-2008, 10:30 PM
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ICBM...

Great job. For me, and I'm sure there is medication to minimize this, I just hate to see cables. I have all mine buried in an in wall system. I posted simple picture here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=982696

I encourage you to post your HT setup in the same area/forum. You did a good job.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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