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#1 ·
Well, my '02 ('03?) Toshiba 50HDX82 crapped out the other day and I ordered the HLT5087S from Amazon. I looked for the owner's thread and couldn't find it so here we are. I have an estimated arrival date of 9-11 Apr. Pics, opinions, and dimensions will be posted upon arrival.


Info per htwait's request:

General Info:

This thread is all about the 2007 Samsung HLTxx87/89S LED DLPs. Each series comes in 50", 56", and 61" versions. All of these sets are 1080P and appear to have the same cabinet. As of 2 April, the suspected differences are:

Quote:
Originally Posted by psklenar /forum/post/0


Per the 4-page PDF spec sheets on Samsung's site:


HL-Txx87S - no PiP, no Bluetooth, USB 1.1, and unspecified HDMI versio (probably 1.1 or 1.2)

HL-Txx89S - Single tuner PiP, Bluetooth (wireless headphones?), USB 2.0 and HDMI v1.3 w/CEC

Scroll to the bottom of this post for the specs.



Samsung seems to be using the same photo for all six televisions in this line (HLTxx87/89) on their web page. I don't know if they all have the same proportions or what.

Links:


htwait's CES info thread: first and last posts

Reviews
Morseth's first impression -HLT6189S
Kagaden's first impression -HLT6187S

Samsung's Website
Samsung DLP page


Quick Guides - Web based basic manual
HLTxx87S
HLTxx89S


Owner's Manuals
HLTxx87S
HLTxx89S


Spec Sheets
HLT5087S
HLT5687S
HLT6187S

----------
HLT5089S
HLT5689S
HLT6189S

Frequently Asked Questions:

(I don't have all the answers yet)

Is the color banding still there in the new HLT's like it was in the 2006 model or is that fixed now?

From Morseth: I didn't see any banding in any of the video modes (dynamic, normal, movie). That doesn't mean it isn't there because I haven't done any exhaustive tests, but I have yet to see it with casual viewing.

From Kagaden: I didn't notice any out of the ordinary with VGA, Standard Definition, DVD's, and Component Wii/PS2 on any mode I fiddled with. I don't have a PS3 or Xbox yet but I'm sure the picture quality is worlds better. My initial impression is that this set corrects the problem I've read with last years 5679's.
Will the AUDIO OUT send through signals from HDMI as well as the normal analog sources? (Will it pass 5.1?)

From Gene S: IIRC, using the sets internal tuners will pass 5.1 sound on the optical out. Using external devices, (STB's, PS3, TivoS3...) the set will only pass 2 channel sound.
Is Samsung finally doing 3:2 pulldown correction for 1080i sources to get back the 1080p/24 signal (used to only work for 480i). Does the 120 Hz refresh rate compensate for this?

From Studio Dweller: I'm a friend of Eliab's and we picked up two of these sets on Thursday. Eliab told me later that day that the HL-T5089S does indeed accept a 1080p/24 signal.

From llowrey: My understanding is that these are wobulated sets and that wobulation occurs at 120Hz (60Hz x 2). I am wondering if this 120Hz number that's been going around is not the true frame rate but rather the wobulation field rate.

**In other words, we don't know the answer yet.**
Is the contrast up to the level of the wheel versions?

Is the pincushioning better/worse than last years models?

From Moreseth: My pincusion in 4:3 material is less than 1/8" on each side. It's so small I can barely measure it.
What are the foot dimensions?

From Moreseth: The dimensions of the actual footprint of the 6189S is about 41" wide by 13.5" deep. These are maximum dimensions, since the footprint isn't a perfect square. (Still waiting for 50" & 57" measurements)
Samsung quotes a 16 microsecond response time. Isn't that slower than most LCDs?
Wikipedia says that typical LCD response times (how fast the pixels can change colors) is 8-16 milliseconds. Samsung claims a 16 microsecond response time. There are 1000 microseconds in one millisecond. To compare apples to apples, the typical LCD response time is 500 to 1000 times slower than what Samsung is claiming for these DLP sets. Keep in mind that this does not include the time that it takes to process the signal (input lag). To dumb it down, think of it this way:


1. Video signal goes to TV set.

2. TV set processes signal and converts it to 1920x1080 pixels to display on screen (input lag). The prettier you want the picture, the longer it will take.

3. Light engine throws picture up on the screen (response time).


Game mode cuts down time in step 2. Obviously if the set had an overall response time of 16 microseconds, we wouldn't need game mode. What it does mean is that the screen itself can keep up with any kind of fast moving action. Here's some more food for thought. Let's take Samsung's quoted 120 Hz refresh rate. You'll get a new screen every 8.33 milliseconds. Analogy: I could have the fastest drumroll in existence, but if I'm only allowed to hit the drum once a second, you're only gonna hear that drum once a second.
Rainbows? I thought LED=no wheel=no rainbows. Can you see them on this set?

If you are very susceptible to rainbows then you might be able to see them on this set. Some people who can see them on lamp based DLPs report not seeing them on the LEDs. Rainbows are caused by the cycling of colors, either as a color wheel spins through them or as the LEDs cycle through them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits /forum/post/0


The underlying cause of rainbows is the fact the each basic (red, green, blue, etc,) color is flashed on the screen one at a time to create the exact color that is desired. The advantage in using colored LED lights is that they are faster and there are no gaps between color filters like color wheels have.


Here is a discussion over several posts about LED light engines and rainbows. I'm surprised that someone has already felt that they are seeing rainbows. Be sure to read what collinp has to say on the topic.


A LED and Rainbow Discussion

Info from the Spec Sheets:

(Data applies to all HLTxx87/89S tv sets unless specified.)

TV/Video

DLP® HDTV by Samsung

Ultra slim bezel (0.6"), piano black cabinet

Slim depth - fits where others won't

Long lasting LED light engine provides stable light output and ultra wide color gamut (spectrum)

Built-in light sensor with beam current feedback insures stable light output over the life of the TV

Samsung Cinema Smooth 1080p light engine:

--- Full HD 1920 x 1080p digital format converter for all inputs

--- Up to 10,000:1 contrast ratio with outstanding colors and deep black levels

--- Single-panel designcrystal-clear picture without any possibility of convergence errors

--- Smooth, film-like image and ultra-quiet operation

Analog and full digital NTSC/ATSC Tuners with Clear QAM (digital cable)*

Energy Star® Compliant (0.8 Watt standby)

Hidden speaker system (DACS)
Picture in Picture (only HLTxx89S)

Bluetooth capability for wireless headphones (only HLTxx89S)

Game Mode enhances game console performance

3D HD readyFuture-proof your HD experience

RS232 port for system control
Audio

10w x 2

SRS TruSurround XT
Connections

3 HDMI inputs (High Definition MultimediaInterface) (version 1.3 with CEC for HLTxx89S) with

480i/480p/720i/1080p/1080i input support
(note: I'm pretty sure they meant 720p)

2-component video inputs (480i/ 480p/ 720p/ 1080i/ 1080p)

2 S-video inputs

2 A/V composite inputs

USB 1.1 (USB 2.0 for HLTxx89S)

PC (RGB) input with 1080p Input Support
Options

Floor stand: TR500X3B
 
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1
#10,002 ·
Ok, after some time debating, I pulled the trigger today. I was completely set on going with the 56" version of the 87 series, until today. I found a site that currently is selling the 89 series 56" for basically the same price of the 87. I know direct links are frowned upon here, and it's probably best off that I get a shipment confirmation and delivery before I post the site, but I'm pretty excited. The site is listed with the BBB (no complaints), and is an authorized Samsung reseller, so I hope it's legit. I called them and confirmed everything before ordering, and they did confirm the price.


I'll post more info as it develops. Right now, I just have a purchase confirmation email.


Matt
 
#10,003 ·
I decided to poke around the firmware to see if there was anything interesting. I downloaded 1026 and unzipped it, poked around with a hex editor and found that these sets run embedded linux as an operating system. So I mounted the various img files and browsed around and found lots of neat stuff. As long as the hardware between the 87's and 89's are the same(wouldnt surprise me) I am sure someone could probably take the firmware from an 87 and firmware from an 89, compare them, then make an improved firmware for the 87 that enables the extra features of the 89....



Mike
 
#10,004 ·
56 or 61? Yes I have seen the recommended viewing distance charts, but what about this TV specifically would you recommend? I have 8-10 feet. Thanks


Justin
 
#10,005 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike105105 /forum/post/12960955


I decided to poke around the firmware to see if there was anything interesting. I downloaded 1026 and unzipped it, poked around with a hex editor and found that these sets run embedded linux as an operating system. So I mounted the various img files and browsed around and found lots of neat stuff. As long as the hardware between the 87's and 89's are the same(wouldnt surprise me) I am sure someone could probably take the firmware from an 87 and firmware from an 89, compare them, then make an improved firmware for the 87 that enables the extra features of the 89....

Nice work Mike... very interesting. However, the post below strongly suggests that the hardware is different:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny_H /forum/post/10335792


For those still thinking the 87S has HDMI 1.3, I don't think it does. UMR has pointed out that these sets do use different chipsets.

[Missing 3 Important Quotes]


Also, there is also no mention of xvyCC in the HTLxx87S manual. I've seen a screen shot of the 89S setting where you can turn it on, and it's not there on the 87S menus. Even if the innards are actually 1.3, they've at least turned it off via firmware in this regard.

Read the Full Post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post10335792


Avio
 
#10,007 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike105105 /forum/post/12960955


I decided to poke around the firmware to see if there was anything interesting. I downloaded 1026 and unzipped it, poked around with a hex editor and found that these sets run embedded linux as an operating system. So I mounted the various img files and browsed around and found lots of neat stuff. As long as the hardware between the 87's and 89's are the same(wouldnt surprise me) I am sure someone could probably take the firmware from an 87 and firmware from an 89, compare them, then make an improved firmware for the 87 that enables the extra features of the 89....

Mike

No one here has posted firmware for xx89s series. The xx87s firmware is at 1028 I believe (1026 was posted), while xx89s firmware is at 1014 I believe. The firmware isn't cross-compatible, but its a good way to totally hose your display if you want to be the guinea pig.
 
#10,011 ·
Well I am an electronics tech, at work we have all types of programmers, so if I did mess with my tv and it went to hell I could pop it open and reprogram the chips directly back to factory original....but i have no interest in being a lab rat lol. I was just tossing it all out there in case there was someone so inclined to take on the task/risk involved.




Mike
 
#10,012 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avio /forum/post/12961298


At least 2 posters in this thread who are xx89S owners have mentioned the existence of ver. 1019 for the xx89 series. If you "Search this Thread" for "1019" you can find those posts.

Here's the most believable post confirming that v. 1019 for xx89 series exists:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormwind /forum/post/12415710


A tech just worked on my HL-T6189S ...


Something interesting: the new mainboard has a date of 2007-09-21 with a firmware version of 1019 ("MODULE: T-LAU2AUS0-1019, DATE: 2007-09-21, MICOM: T-DLEDAUS5-3029").

Avio
 
#10,016 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike105105 /forum/post/12960955


I decided to poke around the firmware to see if there was anything interesting. I downloaded 1026 and unzipped it, poked around with a hex editor and found that these sets run embedded linux as an operating system. So I mounted the various img files and browsed around and found lots of neat stuff. ...
Mike: I'm not interested in hacking the xx87s firmware (and also not able to)... but I'm curious about the "neat stuff" your exploration revealed.


Could you post the most interesting stuff you discovered, or, alternately, could you provide a zipped data dump or "screen shots" of the img files. I do not know if we are talking about graphics, text, source code or whatever.


Can you show us what you found, even if highly technical, or so-called gibberish, or "Greek-to-Me"?


Thanks. Avio
 
#10,017 ·
Have 1019 on my 6189S.


The only way I'd consider looking into 3rd party firmware is to make sure you can go back to the default incase you need any service issues. Having a hacked firmware would more than likely void the warranty.


Doing firmware updates for stuff is not that unusal these days.


What I'd like to see as well is what types of things can be changed/tweaked/etc.


Unless we could know what is actually available for tweaking its hard to say what the value would be. Changing a color of a button would hardly be worth the risk. Adding full support for 24fps, well I might think about doing that. Not sure I would but I would at least think about it. Or change the behavior of the analog ins on HDMI3 so that you could use them no matter what, turn on dd 5.1 pass through, make sure audio out analog jacks were variable, stuff like that.


Edit: Just as a general comment I'm surprised we haven't seen hacked firmware already for stuff like these TV's or the bluray players, etc. With the knowledge and skill set of folks "out there" my guess is there probably already are hacked firmwares but they aren't just laying around for us common folks to find.
 
#10,018 ·
DirecTV sent 2 more guys out and they still couldn't fix the problem so I'm heading over to Comcast now. Anyone have feedback on how HD looks on their 5687 with Comcast HD?


Also, even with Blue-Ray now I'm noticing some flickering on the darker scenes and with certain camera angles...I'm assuming this is the TV. Can I fix this myself or should I do a return/exchange for a new one?


Really wish the delivery guys were more competent so I didn't have to drag this one back in... After seeing them ramp over speed bumps and swap out my TV for a smaller broken one at first thinking I wouldn't catch them, there's no way in he** I'm trusting them.
 
#10,019 ·
Well the img files are basically like iso files for cd's. It is basically the "disc" copied bit by bit into a file. Under linux you can mount such file systems as if they were the actual "disc", and then browse through them just as you would a cd, usb drive, or hard drive. So upon mounting the img files I was able to browse through what windows users can equate to as the tv's "c:" drive. Basically all the linux config files are there along with the standard executables and what I would assume are the binary drivers for several of the tv's systems(display, sound, i/o). One of the files(exe.img) contains what appears to possibly be the main program for the tv....not sure though.


This stuff is mainly of use to someone with the time to reverse engineer the various drivers and compare them to the 89 series. Hardware comparison would also be important. Once you know how everything works it is easy enough to change as you see fit. Since it is linux you could even make your own programs to run on it rather easily. It is running MontaVista Linux pro 3.1, kernel 2.4.20, they appear to make linux distros for various embedded applications including set top boxes.



Custom firmware is always fun, I have an older htc pocketpc phone that people reverse engineered and made a tool where you can customize the firmware through their web site, download the firmware image it produced, and burn it to the phone....very cool.


I can talk geek all night....but i will save you all from that.



Mike
 
#10,020 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tfbit /forum/post/12959757


The problem you will find with placing your center channel in front of the TV is that it will probably obstruct the IR receiver that Samsung thoughtfully (being very sarcastic) put in the center of the round on/off button in the center of the set.

On my set (HLT6176), the IR sensor in on the light engine which means it gets it's signal through the screen! Maybe yours is too, easy enough to check.
 
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