Official Toshiba 65HM167 and 57HM167 Owner's thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 3135 Old 06-09-2007, 04:24 PM
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Hight Quality screenshots please?
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post #272 of 3135 Old 06-09-2007, 05:25 PM
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I have had this television for about a month. Very happy with it. No problems until now. The screen went black on me tonight. I still got sound, but no picture. It went out when I was switching from a 480i program to a 1080i program. There were no error lights on the front. I tried turning it off, then waiting for it to cool, then turning it back on. Still didn't work. Then after reading the manual, I unplugged it for 30 seconds, then plugged it back in. Everything seems to be working now. This is the first negative thing that has happened so far. Hopefully it was just a small glitch and won't happen again. I don't want to have to do that, even once a month. Just posting this in case somebody else has the same issue.
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post #273 of 3135 Old 06-09-2007, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbirdpat View Post

I have had this television for about a month. Very happy with it. No problems until now. The screen went black on me tonight. I still got sound, but no picture. It went out when I was switching from a 480i program to a 1080i program. There were no error lights on the front. I tried turning it off, then waiting for it to cool, then turning it back on. Still didn't work. Then after reading the manual, I unplugged it for 30 seconds, then plugged it back in. Everything seems to be working now. This is the first negative thing that has happened so far. Hopefully it was just a small glitch and won't happen again. I don't want to have to do that, even once a month. Just posting this in case somebody else has the same issue.

I've heard of people having issues with cable/satellite boxes using HDMI and going between SD and HD channels.

Were you using a box or the internal tuner? Though, since unplugging the tv worked it might not be related to an a external box unless some how the box was unplugged at the same time or the box actually faulted something with the tv.
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post #274 of 3135 Old 06-09-2007, 08:09 PM
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I have multiple boxes connected to the television. The box I was using at the time it blacked out was the Directv HR20-700 DVR (connected via HDMI). I actually switched from a 480i to a 720p program, not 1080i as I had previously stated. But I have done that many, many times since owning this television. I'm always switching between different channels and different resolutions. I tried turning the Directv box off and on. I never unplugged the box. Just shut it off and turned it back on. But that didn't work either. Once the television went black, none of the other boxes output showed up either. Just sound, including my PS3. The strange thing was the television menu system still functioned and showed up on the screen. Just not the output from any box that was connected. It was definitely a problem with the television (although it could have been the box that originally caused the problem). The only thing that fixed it was unplugging the television.
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post #275 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 06:56 AM
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I bought this set about four days ago with the Bush stand. I am upgrading from a Panasonic 50" 3LCD 720p TV. Needless to say, the "3D pop" people speak about is DEFINATELY present. This TV provides such distant "Depth of Field" that images in the foreground appear to be floating. Maybe not that dramatic, but the 3LCD which NOW appears "flat" by comparison. My neighbor owns a 46" Sony 3LCD and even he noted how there "appeared to be distance between the actor and the rest of the scene".

My gripes are:

1. Only 4:3 resolutions on VGA. Why would they only allow 4:3 resolution ratios on the VGA/PC Input? My Laptop is a widescreen and it would have been nice to use it on VGA. My Xbox 360 uses VGA also and will upconvert DVD to 1080p on VGA. My year 2003 Panasonic 50" 3LCD TV allows 1280x720 on VGA and its 4 years old. I pray Toshiba will be releasing a firmware fix to use 16:9 resolutions ratios on this TV.

2. Why only 1080i on Component? Because of this, my XBox 360's Toshiba HD-DVD must read 1080p from the HD-DVD, interlace the frame, transmit double the frames over component then the TV's internal scaler must deinterlace it to 1080p. Games are scaled from 720p to 1080p, then interlaced in the Xbox and set over 1080i and deinerlaced in the TV. Why not allow 1080p on component?

3. I can't apply separate settings to each picture mode. I would like to permanently change each picture mode to suit my needs based on the content I am watching. Currently it only allows for one user preference per input. My 4 years old Panny allowed for this.

Is this a deal breaker? I dunno. Will I return it for the Samsung that will and spend $800-$1000 more, I dunno either.

I would love for someone to run the new HQV Benchmark on this set and let us know what fails and what passes. I read someone here did, but he didn't say what failed, only jaggies, which are apparent at 1280x720 and SD Resolutions.

I really want to know if the set is deinteralcing 1080i to 1080p on component. Or is it doing the Bob thing and tossing out every other field and upscaling 540p to 1080p. It certaininly doesn't look like it, but I would like to know.

Other than that, all I can say is WOW. SD channels are better on this set blown up to 65" than on my old 50" and 1080i content from Discovery is gorgeous using HDMI from my SA8300HD. HD-DVD's are simply AMAZING on Component at 1080i. Blacks are better than expected as my 3LCD even with the filter mod can't even come close as blacks appear inky at times. Dark movies are a pleasure to watch. Even the ability to adjust MPEG Noise is appreciated as some older films converted to HD have so much film grain or dark scene noise it is hard to watch. The MPEG Noise filters work like a champ when you need them. Even its lowest settings leave details intact, yet can filter out super HIGH levels of HD compression on action sequences.

Asside from leaving 1080p to HDMI only, Toshiba has a sweet TV at an even sweeter price.
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post #276 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbirdpat View Post

I have multiple boxes connected to the television. The box I was using at the time it blacked out was the Directv HR20-700 DVR (connected via HDMI). I actually switched from a 480i to a 720p program, not 1080i as I had previously stated. But I have done that many, many times since owning this television. I'm always switching between different channels and different resolutions. I tried turning the Directv box off and on. I never unplugged the box. Just shut it off and turned it back on. But that didn't work either. Once the television went black, none of the other boxes output showed up either. Just sound, including my PS3. The strange thing was the television menu system still functioned and showed up on the screen. Just not the output from any box that was connected. It was definitely a problem with the television (although it could have been the box that originally caused the problem). The only thing that fixed it was unplugging the television.

I don't think it is the TV. I have this TV and a Toshiba 56HM195 and Direct TV HD H-20 and I have had the the same thing happened but only a handful of time with the The 56" TV when you went very quickly multiple times between SD and HD. It was worse with the H-10 receiver but not to the point where there was a pattern or nuisance. I have not had this happen over the last 8-9 months and as I said I can count on one hand the number of times it did.
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post #277 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbirdpat View Post

I have multiple boxes connected to the television. The box I was using at the time it blacked out was the Directv HR20-700 DVR (connected via HDMI). I actually switched from a 480i to a 720p program, not 1080i as I had previously stated. But I have done that many, many times since owning this television. I'm always switching between different channels and different resolutions. I tried turning the Directv box off and on. I never unplugged the box. Just shut it off and turned it back on. But that didn't work either. Once the television went black, none of the other boxes output showed up either. Just sound, including my PS3. The strange thing was the television menu system still functioned and showed up on the screen. Just not the output from any box that was connected. It was definitely a problem with the television (although it could have been the box that originally caused the problem). The only thing that fixed it was unplugging the television.

Somewhat similar problem last night.

I was rapidly changing channels from my Comcast hd dvd box when I lost picture and sound with a message screen saying that I had ost hdmi cnnectivity and to switch to component cables.

I shut off Comcast box and when it started up, I had picture but no sound. Shut off toshiba but still same. Once I unplugged the Toshiba for a minute or so, things returned tonormal.

I have had the comcast box freeze in the past when I surfd too quickly so I will take my time now.

Shelly

Farewell Voom. Farewell Directv. Farewell Bell Express Vu. Farewell Dish.
Had 6 dishes, now none.
Back to Comcast. Farewell Comcast, now back to Dish 120+HD. Farewell Dish.

Returned to Comcast 06/2012.

Back in the early days, there were just HD demo loops, no programming. Now HD 3D, amazing!

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post #278 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 12:33 PM
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I have just started to try and calibrate this television with DVE. I am using my PS3 for the source. My PS3 is updated with the latest 1.8 firmware. My problem is that I don't see below black from the DVE disk (outer most stripe on the pluge pattern). My understanding was that the new PS3 firmware update passed on BTB information now. I have set all of the television video settings (like dynamic contrast, etc.) to off. But even when I set the brightness all the way up, BTB does not show up. Has anybody seen BTB on this television when calibrating? Or does anybody know why the PS3 might not be passing that information on? I'm just trying to figure out if it is the television or the PS3 (or a setting on one of the 2). Thanks for any help.
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post #279 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 12:46 PM
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Nevermind. I got BTB to show up. I was looking under the BD/DVD settings on the PS3. It was under the display settings.
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post #280 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jodeci4l View Post

Hight Quality screenshots please?

bump ..just for these ...For some reason, at my local CCity, the Tosh 65" still looks 'soft' compared to the Sammy DLP's (not LED's).

I fiddled around with the settings but was still not able to get the picture quality close to the Sammy ...CCity had Discovery HD for display.

The next time I go there, Im gonna take a shot and then upload here and see if u guys can agree with that or not, that is, if thats the best quality u can get out of the Toshiba.

I wonder if I should spend the extra $$ and get the Sammy HLS 61" instead....but the extra 4" of screen+lower cost makes it too good to pass on.

This is the reason why I need to see some decent screenshots of the Tosh in a 'home' environment and fully calibrated and judge the sets true potential.

I'll be buying it from my local Video Only store but they DO charge 10% restocking fee so for me, this will be a one time purchase so I can't afford to go wrong.

TIA
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post #281 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragster View Post

bump ..just for these ...For some reason, at my local CCity, the Tosh 65" still looks 'soft' compared to the Sammy DLP's (not LED's).

I fiddled around with the settings but was still not able to get the picture quality close to the Sammy ...CCity had Discovery HD for display.

The next time I go there, Im gonna take a shot and then upload here and see if u guys can agree with that or not, that is, if thats the best quality u can get out of the Toshiba.

I wonder if I should spend the extra $$ and get the Sammy HLS 61" instead....but the extra 4" of screen+lower cost makes it too good to pass on.

This is the reason why I need to see some decent screenshots of the Tosh in a 'home' environment and fully calibrated and judge the sets true potential.

I'll be buying it from my local Video Only store but they DO charge 10% restocking fee so for me, this will be a one time purchase so I can't afford to go wrong.

TIA
Frag

In store it might not even matter if the tv was set up correctly because their video system that connects all tvs can vary in quality from tv to tv along the connection chain. So at one store the worst tv can look like the best tv just because it happens to be connected to a part of their system with a better feed. Only way to truly tell is if they have an HD source like Blu-ray or HD-DVD connected directly to the tv.

And taking photos to put online won't help much, it's almost impossible to get a perfectly clear shot of 1080p or even 720p that looks as good as it did in person (even using a steady tripod), most the finer details of HD will be lost and the contrast will be thrown all off.
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post #282 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 03:02 PM
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Heres a few from Piturra, he has quite a few of the 196 model.

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/...32577752CBpOgu
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/...32577752fLyxTg


Cant get anyone to post with the new 197 models. Put his pics look supah!
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post #283 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 04:28 PM
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Here are some shots, since they are not as clear as in person I downsized them to about 1152 across. Sharpness was at 52, kind of cutting it close to edge enhancement, any you see here was probably a result of the camera.













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post #284 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 04:28 PM
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post #285 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragster View Post

bump ..just for these ...For some reason, at my local CCity, the Tosh 65" still looks 'soft' compared to the Sammy DLP's (not LED's).
TIA
Frag

I thought that my Sanyo Z4 front projector had the sharpest hd picture I had ever seen on a big screen.

The Toshiba 65HM167 is sharper. Even my wife, who does not watch much television, has commented on how sharp and clear the picture is. And this is in the Preference mode with the adjstments I made to tone down the picture from the default torch Sports mode.

With HD sources, you will see every pore, feather and blade of grass. I am still amazed at the picture.

Screen shots can never show what the set can do. They are camera dependent. At both of my local CC stores, the 65" Toshiba is among the most detailed sets on the floor. I have seen it side by side with the 60" Sony XBR2 and one of the Sanyo 61" sets, and even with it's larger screen size, it had a sharper picture. All sets were connected via component showing an hd loop.

Not all is perfect with the set, however. I sould have wanted direct source buttons on the remote, picture in picture, and color management from last year's MX series. But they had to make cuts, I assume, to meet the low price point.

Shelly

Farewell Voom. Farewell Directv. Farewell Bell Express Vu. Farewell Dish.
Had 6 dishes, now none.
Back to Comcast. Farewell Comcast, now back to Dish 120+HD. Farewell Dish.

Returned to Comcast 06/2012.

Back in the early days, there were just HD demo loops, no programming. Now HD 3D, amazing!

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post #286 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 06:14 PM
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Nice pics. I know they dont do the tv justice. I have infinity beta speakers. And what have you guys done with your center channels. The top boarder of the toshiba is so thin, that those center channel tv mounts would probably cover up a portion of screen.
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post #287 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 06:41 PM
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Hey Tim

Your camera skills are far than mine and the pictures u posted are simply breath-taking! That shot of close-up Shrek.....where shall I begin.......
W....O.....W.....is all I can say.

Thanks again for the gorgeous shots. I presume u have the PS3?

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post #288 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhato View Post

I would love for someone to run the new HQV Benchmark on this set and let us know what fails and what passes. I read someone here did, but he didn't say what failed, only jaggies, which are apparent at 1280x720 and SD Resolutions.

I really want to know if the set is deinteralcing 1080i to 1080p on component. Or is it doing the Bob thing and tossing out every other field and upscaling 540p to 1080p. It certaininly doesn't look like it, but I would like to know.

More than likely, the person you refer to only ran the standard HQV benchmark on this model, which is on DVD, and therefore only capable of testing 480i processing. To test HD processing, the new HD HQV Benchmark must be used. Since it's authored in 1080i60, it can test a set's 1080i signal processing.

Background: I've been interested in purchasing the 57HM167 for some time now, but I wanted to wait and see how well it processed 1080i signals before buying it. I was especially interested in how well it deinterlaced 1080i signals from both video and film-based sources. Since I had some free time tonight, I went to my local hhgregg and tested it with the just publically released HD HQV Benchmark to get the answers.

Why is proper 1080i deinterlacing important? 1080i broadcast TV always requires deinterlacing - whether it's video or film deinterlacing depends on the source. Also, any HD DVD player limited to 1080i60 output always requires film-based deinterlacing as well. Why, because the first step of ALL currently available HD DVD players is to decode the 1080p24 film source on the HD DVD to a 1080i60 signal. Some players then output the 1080i60 signal directly, like the HD-A2, and rely on the TV to deinterlace it correctly. Others, like the high-end HD-XA2, go on to deinterlace the 1080i60 internally and output 1080p60, so the TV doesn't have to deinterlace anything.

When deinterlacing is required, but NOT done correctly within the TV, half of the available 1080 source resolution is lost/discarded and you end up watching only 540 lines worth of resolution. This loss can occur with both video AND film-based sources because each must deinterlaced by different processing methods to maintain the full 1080 source resolution to the screen.

Excellent video and film deinterlacing explanations can be found here:
http://www.hqv.com/technology/index1...TOKEN=41317055
http://www.hqv.com/technology/index1...TOKEN=41317055
http://hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1106hook/

Test setup: HD DVD player - HD-A2, connected via HDMI, output set to "Auto" and "1080i". TV - 57HM167, Picture mode set to "Natural", DNR set to "Auto", Cinema Mode set to "Film" for film tests and "Video" for video tests.

Test results: (see here for scoring explanation - http://www.hqv.com/contentEngine/dsp...e-f1edd6040515)

HD Noise Reduction: 15
HD Video Resolution Loss Test: 20, pass
Video Reconstruction Test (aka "Jaggies"): 10
Film Resolution Loss Test: 0, FAIL 2 - strobing vertical bands
Film Resolution Loss Test - Stadium: 5, FAIL - blurry

Test conclusion: Since this TV fails the film-based deinterlacing tests, this TV uses half-resolution processing with 1080i60 film-based sources. Therefore, only 540 lines worth of resolution are getting to the screen when watching film-based 1080i broadcast shows or when watching HD DVDs/BRDs on players limited to 1080i60 output.

To obtain full 1080 resoluton with this TV, you MUST use a HD DVD or Blu-ray player capable of 1080p60 output or you will only be seeing 540 lines worth of resolution when watching HD DVDs or BRDs. Nothing can be done about the loss of resolution with 1080i film-based broadcast shows UNLESS you use an external HDTV tuner & video processor and then feed the TV 1080p60 directly. If not, you will always be stuck with only being able to see them in half-resolution when motion is present.

From the scoring guide: Content that has been recorded at 1080p24 is converted into 1080i60 for broadcast purposes via a telecine process. A good video processor should be able to decode the original 1080p data by recognizing the 3:2 cadence of the repeated fields generated in this process. This process is known as inverse telecine. With support for this feature, 100 percent of the pixels from the original 1080p source can be seen. Without proper inverse telecine, the video processor discards half of the resolution. Popular TV shows broadcast in 1080i including CBS's How I Met Your Mother, The Unit, CSI, NC IS, The King of Queens, and NBC's ER, Law and Order, and more can be enjoyed in full 1080p resolution provided your video processor or display device is capable of content-based HD 2:3 inverse telecine.

Failure mode: The strobing of vertical bands on the left and right edges of the box indicate motion adaptive processing. Since the imagery is panning horizontally and lines within the box are horizontal, then the only motion that can be detected is at the leading and trailing edges of the object (i.e. the left and right edge). Where there is no motion the fields are woven, yielding the alternating black and white lines. Where motion is detected, thesource field is vertically interpolated to yield the synthetic. So instead of the entire box strobing in half-resolution processing, only the left and right edges strobe with motion adaptive processing. Motion adaptive processing is appropriate for video based content but not for film based content sourced from a telecine.

Hope this info helps some of you out!
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post #289 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 07:27 PM
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SO it sounds like this TV should work very well for me since I will be using my VP50 to scale/deinterlace to 1080P60 before going to the TV.
My 65HM167 is supposed to be delivered on Saturday. Hopefully I don't have any problems.

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post #290 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 07:34 PM
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As a curious question, what current model rptvs pass this test?

In an issue of sound and vision for the review of the 62hm196, it boasts about the set being one of the few Dlp that can resolve every line of 1080i.

http://www.ecoustics.com/sv/1881
?
And also does this apply to HD cable boxes, and video game systems?
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post #291 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jodeci4l View Post

As a curious question, what current model rptvs pass this test?

In an issue of sound and vision for the review of the 62hm196, it boasts about the set being one of the few Dlp that can resolve every line of 1080i.

http://www.ecoustics.com/sv/1881

Not very many models pass the the film resolution test. If you go to the link I provided - http://hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1106hook/ - you will see that out of 61 sets tested, 49 failed the test. The only models that consistently pass it are made by JVC, Pioneer, and Hitachi. They pass it because they contain the more expensive and powerful video processor(s) needed to perform 1080i60 INverse TeleCine (aka 1080i reverse 3:2 pulldown) correctly. The ability to perform 1080i IVTC correctly is what the film resolution test is testing.

Being able to resolve every line of 1080 is a bandwidth test and is separate from deinterlacing. That same link also covers that type of test. A bandwidth test measures measures signal attentuation along the entire signal path to see if enough bandwidth is available to display per pixel detail for a STATIC image. Static is the key word.

A set can pass a 1080 bandwidth test, but still fail the film resolution test because the film resolution test is performed on MOVING IMAGES, not a static image. The 57HM167 passes the bandwidth test, too. However, when the 57HM167 is faced with processing moving images from 1080i film-based sources, it discards half of the source resolution while processing those moving images. However, as my testing showed, the 57HM167 does fine with 1080i video-based sources, so when watching 1080i broadcasts like the Tonight Show and sports, full 1080 resolution is preserved.
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post #292 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 10:29 PM
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Judging from the posts above, does that mean the Toshiba CANT resolve ALL of 1080i material (for moving images such as 1080i broadcasts, console games at 1080i)?? This will probably introduce some artifacts, correct?

This may be the loosing factor for me as I have not one but 2 1080i sources....Tosh HD-A2 player and of course the XBox360 (not Elite).

Any current 65HM167 owners with either an 360 (not elite) or HD-A2 please chime in and post your experiance at 1080i? For my local area, I think even my OTA broadcasts are all 1080i.

Thanks again.
Frag

PS: The JVC 61"FN97 was my second choice but apparently is one of the few sets that passes and resolves full 1080i material with no problems.

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post #293 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 10:38 PM
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I plan on replacing one of my Xbox 360s with an Elite so I can get 1080P into the Toshiba. I'd rather just use the VGA input but since the HDMI inputs are the only ones that take 1080P I'll just get an Elite. I never liked how 1080i from the 360 looked on my Samsung so I switched to VGA and use 1080P. I have no idea how it will look on the Toshiba though, but I figure I'll get an Elite anyway, and the all black look will match the TV.

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post #294 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 10:43 PM
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So if I were hook up this tv to an Xbox 360 Elite or PS3 via HDMI and I feed the digital audio out to my receiver it will only send 2 channel audio?

Sorry if this is a novice question, but this all stuff is pretty confusing. This tv is one I am looking at very seriously.
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post #295 of 3135 Old 06-10-2007, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragster View Post

Judging from the posts above, does that mean the Toshiba CANT resolve ALL of 1080i material (for moving images such as 1080i broadcasts, console games at 1080i)?? This will probably introduce some artifacts, correct?

About sources . . .

Sources can either be video or film-based. With a 1080i channel, both are ALWAYS broadcast within a 1080i60 signal.

Video-based is often used for live shows, gameshows, news, and sports. Ex: Tonight Show, SNL, Letterman, Oprah, NBA, Dateline, etc.

Film-based are most made for TV movies, as well as a bunch of prime-time shows like ER, CSI, etc. Also, included are almost ALL HD DVD and Blu-ray movies.

Video and film-based sources must be deinterlaced differently to maintain full 1080 resolution. The 57HM167 does fine with video-based sources, it is the film-based sources where half of the 1080 resolution is being lost.

About set top box interactions . . .

Most boxes do minimal processing to the signal (it's cheaper) and I can guarantee that none are doing 1080i IVTC. That being said, all film-based sources being broadcast as 1080i60 will STILL always be shown at half-resolution regardless of the box's setting, with the loss of resolution being most apparent during quick horizontal pans.

Video-based sources will depend:

Given that the TV likely has a better scaler than most boxes, the best setting to select, if you have it, is typically called "native" or "by-pass". That setting will pass each channel through unaltered, so the TV can process it "as-is".

If you do that and the source is a 1080i channel (NBC, CBS, etc), all video-based sources should be passed though the box w/o any processing and deinterlaced properly within the TV to yield full 1080 resolution.

If the source is 720p (ABC), deinterlacing is unnecessary and only scaling is being done. Full 720 resolution is maintained.

About game systems . . .

All games are rendered progressively, like film. Some are rendered in 720p, others in 1080p (very few right now). If you know whether the game is native 720p or 1080p, send the native format. Doing so will ALWAYS preserve full resolution.

If you don't know the native resolution, I would try sending both and see what looks better. If the game is native 720 and you send 720, the TV is doing the scaling to 1080. If you send 1080, it is the game system doing the scaling.

If the game is native 1080 and you send 720, you're losing resolution. If you send 1080, the signal is optimal since it is being sent "as-is".

Whatever you do, do not send 1080i. You will lose resolution during any type of movement because the TV will try to process the signal like it would a video-based source. In doing so, it will interpolate or make up pixels between game frames. This process will generate artifacts. The only time sending 1080i would look EQUAL to sending 1080p, would be on a completely STATIC image. That doesn't happen very often during games.
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post #296 of 3135 Old 06-11-2007, 05:01 AM
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Well crud!!! Thank you areyou4real for taking time to provide and educate us.

I figured I would end up buying something like this. I am very dissappointed.
This is just frustrating. Most 360 games are in 720p, and we watch alot of HD-DVD movies on the 360 also. Since I can only use my Component Inputs the best thing for me is to switch between resolutions dpeending on if I am wraching a movie or playing a game. But since this set has a limited deinterlacer, I wont be seeing the full resolution of the movie anyway, unless I buy an -A2 or upgrade to the 360 Elite. I still have to buy a Blu-Ray Player or a PS3, even more money I gotta throw at the problem. My SA8300HD only outputs upto 1080i on HDMI and I am using Bypass as it is obvious the TV is better than the box. My provider says Cisco owns Scientific Atlanta and they are releasing a 1080p box soon, but who knows if it will properly deinterlace 1080i anyway.

Maybe I need to buy a VP50 or one of the less expensive Lumagen VisionHDP with HDMI-DVI converters and a nice receiver. Nah, I may sell the 360 and buy the Elite.
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post #297 of 3135 Old 06-11-2007, 07:06 AM
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You're welcome. However, like I said you'll need a player with 1080p60 ouput to maintain full resolution from HD DVDs or BRDs, if you go with this TV. The A2 is limited to 1080i60 output, so it will not provide full resolution. You will need the XA2. The A20 is also 1080p60 capable. However, it does the deinterlacing INCORRECTLY unfortunately and will not provide full resolution.

See here:http://www.ultimateavmag.com/hddiscplayers/507tosha20/
_________________________

Performance
I want to cut to the chase here. The 1080p output is primarily what separates this player from the cheaper HD-A2, and that's where I started. Looking at the battery of test patterns I have at my disposal, I immediately saw some alarming signs. Fine horizontal 1080p luma and chroma bursts from the Spears and Munsil test disc and sections of Video and Film Resolution Loss tests on the Silicon Optix HD Benchmark on HD DVD showed artifacts. In particular, the areas with the finest horizontal luma lines were strobing, or blinking. With a video processor, this would suggest that its deinterlacing of 1080i material to 1080p is suspect. But why would this be the case with a player with a 1080p output? Simple, it clearly suggests that the HD-A20 converts the 1080p signal from the disc to 1080i, and then deinterlaces it back to 1080p incorrectly.

Going further to check this with program material, I looked at the Vatican scenes from Mission: Impossible 3, which are loaded with torturous brickwork and other fine details. Sure enough, this scene threw the A20 into veritable fits at 1080p. Obvious moiré, line twitter and other artifacts were plentiful, and some of the images were noticeably softened in detail as a result of the motion artifacts
_________________________

I can't comment on whether the Xbox 360 does the deinterlacing correctly for HD DVD playback at 1080p60 - it must be tested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vhato View Post

Well crud!!! That you areyou4real for taking time to provide and educate us.

I figured I would end up buying something like this. I am very dissappointed.
This is just frustrating. Most 360 games are in 720p, and we watch alot of HD-DVD movies on the 360 also. Since I can only use my Component Inputs the best thing for me is to switch between resolutions dpeending on if I am wraching a movie or playing a game. But since this set has a limited deinterlacer, I wont be seeing the full resolution of the movie anyway, unless I buy an -A2 or upgrade to the 360 Elite. I still have to buy a Blu-Ray Player or a PS3, even more money I gotta throw at the problem. My SA8300HD only outputs upto 1080i on HDMI and I am using Bypass as it is obvious the TV is better than the box. My provider says Cisco owns Scientific Atlanta and they are releasing a 1080p box soon, but who knows if it will properly deinterlace 1080i anyway.

Maybe I need to buy a VP50 or one of the less expensive Lumagen VisionHDP with HDMI-DVI converters and a nice receiver. Nah, I may sell the 360 and buy the Elite.

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post #298 of 3135 Old 06-11-2007, 11:39 AM
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Alright what you're basically saying is...

If I am watching 1080i program ABC via built-in tuner and it's saying 1080i on the status bar, I am not really seeing 1080 lines?

If I plugged in the upconverting DVD player that output 1080i, I will not see 1080 lines? And it would makes no difference (if any) with a player with Progressive scan that output 480p?
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post #299 of 3135 Old 06-11-2007, 12:04 PM
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This is very dishearting. I was so set on this set. For the great price that they are selling, their had to be some options/features given up somewhere. I have a XBOX 360 and A1. Dam, oh well back to the drawing board. Might have to check into samsungs, the 5067w passed this test.
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post #300 of 3135 Old 06-11-2007, 01:03 PM
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Disheartening? Discouraging?

I have been watcing HD programs since the 90's when we would all gather around and watch the demo loops from all the satellite serrvices because there was hardly any hd programing. I still have 6 dishes on my roof from all the hd satellite sources, i.e., Dish, Directv, Voom and Bev.

I now have Comcast HD (as well as Dish HD).

I am on my 2nd hd rptv and have had 2 hd front projectors.

Despite all its short comings, the Toshiba 65HM197 does the best job with hd that I have seen. To bad Voom with its uncompressed signal is no longer around.

This set has more 3D and wow moments of rich, clear, colorful hd than I have seen before.

Despite its limitations, what really counts is the end result picture. Factor in the real world comparative low pricing and the 65HM167 has more going for it then most of the rptv's out there.

Shelly

Farewell Voom. Farewell Directv. Farewell Bell Express Vu. Farewell Dish.
Had 6 dishes, now none.
Back to Comcast. Farewell Comcast, now back to Dish 120+HD. Farewell Dish.

Returned to Comcast 06/2012.

Back in the early days, there were just HD demo loops, no programming. Now HD 3D, amazing!

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