2007 Samsung HL-Txx76 Owner's Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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Old 07-16-2007, 03:05 PM
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See my last post from Friday. After having the HLT for 4 days, and then getting the Sony a2020 last Friday, I can tell you that IMO the HLT has a noticeably better PQ. Just seems that the colors are more vibrant, they jump right out, and the images are well delineated. I haven't played around with the picture settings, so maybe I'll bet some improvement.

All that said, I'm very happy with my Sony. No smiles, no frowns, just a real nice picture and a good feeling of a quality product.
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Old 07-16-2007, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by PlayBall View Post

See my last post from Friday. After having the HLT for 4 days, and then getting the Sony a2020 last Friday, I can tell you that IMO the HLT has a noticeably better PQ. Just seems that the colors are more vibrant, they jump right out, and the images are well delineated. I haven't played around with the picture settings, so maybe I'll bet some improvement.

All that said, I'm very happy with my Sony. No smiles, no frowns, just a real nice picture and a good feeling of a quality product.

Yeah There is no doubt in my mind now.....I was wondering....if this sony a2020 is so great why do I never see any when I go to CC BB and brandsmart....its because they don't stand out.....and THAT SUCKS FOR ME! Samsung is the way to go for me clearly then....

Would a 1080p samsung LCD with 15,000:1 contrast ratio have JUST as good PQ as the samsung DLPs????

Dang is there ANY OTHER TV thats just as good?? or better?? haha
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Old 07-16-2007, 06:16 PM
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Yeah There is no doubt in my mind now.....I was wondering....if this sony a2020 is so great why do I never see any when I go to CC BB and brandsmart....its because they don't stand out.....and THAT SUCKS FOR ME! Samsung is the way to go for me clearly then....

I have the KDS 50A2020 and all I can say is WOW!!! Amazing HD, Ink Jet Blacks, Perfect Geometry, Colors that POP out at you and good to Great SD... Standing side by side along the Samsung if the labels were removed you could not tell a diffrence except that the Samsung has the worst Geometry out there bar none!!! But Sony clarity, colors, blacks are on par or better then the Samsung!! IMHO..
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Old 07-16-2007, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ozcot View Post

I have the KDS 50A2020 and all I can say is WOW!!! Amazing HD, Ink Jet Blacks, Perfect Geometry, Colors that POP out at you and good to Great SD... Standing side by side along the Samsung if the labels were removed you could not tell a diffrence except that the Samsung has the worst Geometry out there bar none!!! But Sony clarity, colors, blacks are on par or better then the Samsung!! IMHO..

Are you sure its not just denial that the samsung is better in your eyes and that you just dont want the problems? (not being sarcastic at all)

I just ask because I know its human to defend what you paid hard earned money for and I just don't want to make a bad decision thats all.

But what about the 1080p samsung LCD with 15,000:1 contrast ratio?? better PQ than sammy DLPs or less?
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Old 07-16-2007, 09:01 PM
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The Sony set gets good reviews by professional reviewers, calibrators, and a lot of people on this board. The A2000 and A2020 are very similiar sets, and if you look at those two owner's threads, you will find a lot of similiar opinions. Most of the color problems seem isolated to the A2000 and seemed to have been worked out over time.

Very few people have complained about the PQ of the Sony and a LOT of people who don't own one but own competing brands have said they are good TV's. While your question is certainly fair, there is substantial belief in the quality of Sony's picture, as there is with Samsungs.

Both quality TV's with their own unique flaws. They get compared a lot around here for a very good reason.
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Old 07-16-2007, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by brophog View Post

The Sony set gets good reviews by professional reviewers, calibrators, and a lot of people on this board. The A2000 and A2020 are very similiar sets, and if you look at those two owner's threads, you will find a lot of similiar opinions. Most of the color problems seem isolated to the A2000 and seemed to have been worked out over time.

Very few people have complained about the PQ of the Sony and a LOT of people who don't own one but own competing brands have said they are good TV's. While your question is certainly fair, there is substantial belief in the quality of Sony's picture, as there is with Samsungs.

Both quality TV's with their own unique flaws. They get compared a lot around here for a very good reason.

I guess I will stop by a CC BB or brandsmart and look for it to check it out myself.

Thanks for the response....BUT WHAT ABOUT the 1080p samsung LCD with the 15,000:1 contrast ratio????
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Old 07-17-2007, 05:37 AM
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I don't know, maybe someone else does. I'm not that familiar with the Samsung LCD's.
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Old 07-17-2007, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Joey Cusack View Post

I guess I will stop by a CC BB or brandsmart and look for it to check it out myself.

Thanks for the response....BUT WHAT ABOUT the 1080p samsung LCD with the 15,000:1 contrast ratio????

My brother bought the ln-t4065F. That's the 15000:1 con. ratio you are talking about.

The PQ is defintely good. The blacks are friggin fantastic. I feel the DLP set is much brighter and things pop more, but on the LCD set, you do not have the geometry issues or any Silk screen effect. My brothers also has 2 clouds on it that I can see when the screen is all black. It's annoying, but not as annoying as geometry issues. The LCD is also more costly to fix when the warranty is up. There are a lot of pros and cons to both. See what bugs you the less and make a choice.


You should just look at the thread for the specific LCD you are looking for and do your own research on this. It's not a good idea to start rolling on a topic of LCD's on a pure HL-t thread.
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Old 07-17-2007, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ozcot View Post

I have the KDS 50A2020 and all I can say is WOW!!! Amazing HD, Ink Jet Blacks, Perfect Geometry, Colors that POP out at you and good to Great SD... Standing side by side along the Samsung if the labels were removed you could not tell a diffrence except that the Samsung has the worst Geometry out there bar none!!! But Sony clarity, colors, blacks are on par or better then the Samsung!! IMHO..

As I mentioned previously, I had not calibrated or modified my a2020 factory settings. I would like to do that. Can you tell me what picture settings you are using for your HDMI input?

thanks!
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Old 07-17-2007, 08:20 PM
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so i am on my 5th hlt 5076s and my 3rd tech visit. last time the tech didn't do anything even after getting a special bulletin about the tv, we looked at the info it was all about fixing bowing but this is the "smiley face" i guess. anyways he said the only thing he can think of was getting a whole new light engine, so i have that on the way. if that doesn't work i'm going for the LED or LCD. i am so sick and tired of this and past my 30 days.
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Old 07-17-2007, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mranbel View Post

so i am on my 5th hlt 5076s and my 3rd tech visit. last time the tech didn't do anything even after getting a special bulletin about the tv, we looked at the info it was all about fixing bowing but this is the "smiley face" i guess. anyways he said the only thing he can think of was getting a whole new light engine, so i have that on the way. if that doesn't work i'm going for the LED or LCD. i am so sick and tired of this and past my 30 days.

Sorry to hear this, mranbel, you hung in there a heck of a lot longer than I. Let it go, and bring on some quality! You deserve it! Everyone deserves it. Samsung has some 'splaining' to do.....

All the best!
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by PlayBall View Post

Sorry to hear this, mranbel, you hung in there a heck of a lot longer than I. Let it go, and bring on some quality! You deserve it! Everyone deserves it. Samsung has some 'splaining' to do.....

All the best!

Went to CC again today! Yes the samsung DLP has bowing.... I saw the sony a2020...It does have a very nice picture...

But for 30 mins I stayed in CC and watched POTC on blu-ray on the HLT6176s. The bowing does not bother me so....and I know they will fix it eventually.

ATM I'm with Muff. I believe it will all be worth it.

BTW is it just me or does the 56" sammy dlp look kinda small? dunno but every time I see the hlt6176s I believe it to be the hlt5676s 56 incher. haha.
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Old 07-18-2007, 06:03 AM
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As I mentioned previously, I had not calibrated or modified my a2020 factory settings. I would like to do that. Can you tell me what picture settings you are using for your HDMI input?

thanks!

I did a slightly Modified version of "Abulia" setting he posted on 7-14 post 1155 on the Sony 2020 thread. Cut the colors down a little bit they Poped a tad too much for my tastes. Great picture not sure how anyone could say the Samsung blows the sony away and seen some say going through the bowing hassle is worth it in the end due to the so called great picture. Could not see a bit if diffrence between the two except as I said the Sony looked a tad better in SD IMO. Some say the Samsung viewing angles are very bad the Sony has great viewing angles. Plus it does not smile at you, you do not have a tech visit you house multiple times scratching his head not knowing what to do and have multiple TVs delivered to your house with the same issue. All you get is one delivery, no techs, no Bowing and just a great Picture.

Here is the link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&page=39&pp=30
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Old 07-18-2007, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mranbel View Post

so i am on my 5th hlt 5076s and my 3rd tech visit. last time the tech didn't do anything even after getting a special bulletin about the tv, we looked at the info it was all about fixing bowing but this is the "smiley face" i guess. anyways he said the only thing he can think of was getting a whole new light engine, so i have that on the way. if that doesn't work i'm going for the LED or LCD. i am so sick and tired of this and past my 30 days.


I feel your pain. This is my 3rd. I went through 2 50" version and now have a f'ed up 56". If this gets to a week before my 30 days is up, I am returning for the 55A2020. I'm tired of it. All this smiley face crap is bull.

The problem comes from the terminology we use when talking to customer support, and customer supports lack of asking for detail and knowing the correct terminology. Bowing refers to how the bars on the side of a 4:3 pulldown being push inward. A barrel effect is where we have horizonta lines having a frown on the bottom and a smile up top. This smiley face is a whole other issue, and we keep on using the word bowing and Samsung is trying to cure something that is not even our problem.

Luckily the tech came out and took pictures of the problem. He said he would get back to me today and promised that he would have word back from an engineer by today.

The light engine replacement is not the problem.

There is also a new problem that I've found

On the bottom of the screen, about 3-4 inches on the left and right sides, there is a thumb print shadow that develops. I first noticed 2 days ago with XBOX 360 connected through my VGA. On a bright screen it made it noticeable, and there all the time. This was only visible with a bright screen. I then experimented and unplugged the VGA and connected it with the component cables.

It was gone....at least I thought. Now it goes away if the menu bar isn't up. But if I thorw on the menu bar and click "picture" or any other option...the thumb print shadows develop, 1 on each side. When you close the menu...they go away.


This might be a light engine problem, and hopefully I will find out this weekend when they come and replace it, along with them hopefully fixing the Smiley face.


When you spend this much money for a TV, money you could spend on paying off a crdit card, or on something else, all these screwed up TV's add to the buyer's remorse. You think twice about what you bought. All we want is to feel good about laying down $2000, and Samsung doesn't make you feel this way


My finance has had enough with this TV crap. She just wants me to be happy so I don't drive her crazy anymore with this. If the next tech visit goes wrong...it's going back for good.
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:00 AM
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I got a 5076 last week and have the bowing issue. When I first watched, I didn't notice it much, but I took a good look last night and it is very pronounced (I don't know if it had gotten worse, but I remember looking at the program guide and thinking the horizontal lines looked straight before. Last night, there was the obvious "smile".)

I was already a little nervous about the durability of the screen and cabinet given that I have a one year old son in the house, so I think this may be enough to push me over to the plasma side of things (I'd consider a Sony SXRD, but I really don't want an 18" deep television.)
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Cusack View Post

Went to CC again today! Yes the samsung DLP has bowing.... I saw the sony a2020...It does have a very nice picture...

But for 30 mins I stayed in CC and watched POTC on blu-ray on the HLT6176s. The bowing does not bother me so....and I know they will fix it eventually.

ATM I'm with Muff. I believe it will all be worth it.

BTW is it just me or does the 56" sammy dlp look kinda small? dunno but every time I see the hlt6176s I believe it to be the hlt5676s 56 incher. haha.


push on the screen and tell me what you think then.
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ozcot View Post

I did a slightly Modified version of "Abulia" setting he posted on 7-14 post 1155 on the Sony 2020 thread. Cut the colors down a little bit they Poped a tad too much for my tastes. Great picture not sure how anyone could say the Samsung blows the sony away and seen some say going through the bowing hassle is worth it in the end due to the so called great picture. Could not see a bit if diffrence between the two except as I said the Sony looked a tad better in SD IMO. Some say the Samsung viewing angles are very bad the Sony has great viewing angles. Plus it does not smile at you, you do not have a tech visit you house multiple times scratching his head not knowing what to do and have multiple TVs delivered to your house with the same issue. All you get is one delivery, no techs, no Bowing and just a great Picture.

Here is the link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&page=39&pp=30


I am with OZ both of us where on the Sammy and moved to the Sony the SD is the best I have ever seen using OZ's settings. Blacks are excellent and the screen does not collapse when you push on it or smile at you.

I have owned many many Sammys and the build quality is reprenhensible. The HLS models have light engine problems all within 6 months - btw took four months to replace.

The HLT LCD DLP 87's and 89's PQ looks like CRT RPTV tech from early 90's.

The HLT DLP 76's as well as 89 all have bowing.

I am not trying to be a Sony fanboy - in fact I like DLP but I am a concerned HT enthusiast that really cares.

Please DO NOT buy the Sammy products.
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Old 07-18-2007, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Muffdiever View Post

I feel your pain. This is my 3rd. I went through 2 50" version and now have a f'ed up 56". If this gets to a week before my 30 days is up, I am returning for the 55A2020. I'm tired of it. All this smiley face crap is bull.

The problem comes from the terminology we use when talking to customer support, and customer supports lack of asking for detail and knowing the correct terminology. Bowing refers to how the bars on the side of a 4:3 pulldown being push inward. A barrel effect is where we have horizonta lines having a frown on the bottom and a smile up top. This smiley face is a whole other issue, and we keep on using the word bowing and Samsung is trying to cure something that is not even our problem.

Luckily the tech came out and took pictures of the problem. He said he would get back to me today and promised that he would have word back from an engineer by today.

The light engine replacement is not the problem.

There is also a new problem that I've found

On the bottom of the screen, about 3-4 inches on the left and right sides, there is a thumb print shadow that develops. I first noticed 2 days ago with XBOX 360 connected through my VGA. On a bright screen it made it noticeable, and there all the time. This was only visible with a bright screen. I then experimented and unplugged the VGA and connected it with the component cables.

It was gone....at least I thought. Now it goes away if the menu bar isn't up. But if I thorw on the menu bar and click "picture" or any other option...the thumb print shadows develop, 1 on each side. When you close the menu...they go away.


This might be a light engine problem, and hopefully I will find out this weekend when they come and replace it, along with them hopefully fixing the Smiley face.


When you spend this much money for a TV, money you could spend on paying off a crdit card, or on something else, all these screwed up TV's add to the buyer's remorse. You think twice about what you bought. All we want is to feel good about laying down $2000, and Samsung doesn't make you feel this way


My finance has had enough with this TV crap. She just wants me to be happy so I don't drive her crazy anymore with this. If the next tech visit goes wrong...it's going back for good.

Based on our private dialog - please do get the Sony - It is about time that a clear message is sent to Samsung about the poor quality of the products they manufacture.

We as consumers deserve more for our hard earned dollar.

If you do exchange the set please let us know your best settings and your positive and negative opinions about the Sony.

Thanks!

TC
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mantoine View Post

I got a 5076 last week and have the bowing issue. When I first watched, I didn't notice it much, but I took a good look last night and it is very pronounced (I don't know if it had gotten worse, but I remember looking at the program guide and thinking the horizontal lines looked straight before. Last night, there was the obvious "smile".)

I just posted on how the terminology is screwing up getting this fixed by Samsung, and there someone goes using the word "BOWING" to describe the "smiley face" again. What's the point of these posts! If people keep on calling it bowing and confusing the hell out of the already dumb customer support Samsung has, we are never going to get anywhere!!

Being that these are the types of people who own Sammy's, I might just go bring back the Sammy now and get a SONY. I believe the majority of people that buy Samsungs, are the main reasons the problems never get fixed!!
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Old 07-18-2007, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Muffdiever View Post

I just posted on how the terminology is screwing up getting this fixed by Samsung, and there someone goes using the word "BOWING" to describe the "smiley face" again. What's the point of these posts! If people keep on calling it bowing and confusing the hell out of the already dumb customer support Samsung has, we are never going to get anywhere!!

Being that these are the types of people who own Sammy's, I might just go bring back the Sammy now and get a SONY. I believe the majority of people that buy Samsungs, are the main reasons the problems never get fixed!!

I find it laughable you are blaming terminolgy and or the consumer on these sets not getting fixed. Seriously I shot Soda out of my nose when I read this.

It's a design flaw and don't think for a second Samsung doesnt' know what's being talked about when the consumer describes this situation to them.
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:27 PM
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So...Amazon has the HLT6176 on sale right now for $1799 w/ free shipping.

I've been reading over this thread, and it seems likely upon purchase that the TV would have minor (or major) geometry issues, but outstanding PQ.

With the sale price, is it worth it to get the set knowing there could be problems? Or should I just continue waiting and looking at other models?
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:28 PM
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I find it laughable you are blaming terminolgy and or the consumer on these sets not getting fixed. Seriously I shot Soda out of my nose when I read this.

It's a design flaw and don't think for a second Samsung doesnt' know what's being talked about when the consumer describes this situation to them.

Put it this way. If no one ever complained about the "green blob" on thr Sony A2000, they would have never fixed it or put there time into it.

If people call up complaining about bowing, they think it has to do with the HL-S bowing issue where the 4:3 pulldown caved in from the sides. So now customer support sends techs out to fix bowing issues. They get there and think the mirror adjustment fixes it....but it doesn't and then they don't know what to do.

The problem is is that it prolongs the issue. This problem could have been at the same point it is at now or fixed if the right terminology was used from the geico..................the get-go.
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Muffdiever View Post

Put it this way. If no one ever complained about the "green blob" on thr Sony A2000, they would have never fixed it or put there time into it.

If people call up complaining about bowing, they think it has to do with the HL-S bowing issue where the 4:3 pulldown caved in from the sides. So now customer support sends techs out to fix bowing issues. They get there and think the mirror adjustment fixes it....but it doesn't and then they don't know what to do.

The problem is is that it prolongs the issue. This problem could have been at the same point it is at now or fixed if the right terminology was used from the geico..................the get-go.




You are assuming a lot. I talked to a rep yesterday and she told me that they had recieved a lot of calls about horizontal bowing.

IMO it's kind of hard to mix up horizontal bowing with vertical bowing....it would be kind of like mixing up left and right.

You are giving too much credit to Samsung. Trust me after talking to the rep the other day, they know there is a problem. You can either wait until they come up with a fix for it or move on.

I'm moving on...the picture on my set not only has horizontal bowing it has vertical bowing as well. There isn't a straight line on the TV.
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:44 PM
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I hear ya man. What's a TV without straight lines???? What are you moving on to?
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:48 PM
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Well, talking terminology confusion...I thought the "curvature" of the picture on 4:3 content was known as "pincushion" not "bowing." Also, I didn't realize Sony had fixed the green blob issue. Unless the A2020 somehow fixed it, the A2000 and the earlier XBR1 both had it, and Sony refused to do anything about it, saying it was normal. When I had my XBR1 for a week, they said it was normal operation and that after 30 minutes of the TV being on it would go away. It would get reduced but not go away, so watching anything with a light background had the blob in the middle of the screen and in the corners. Hockey games were horrible. As for the geometry issues, a lot of it is caused by the reduction in footprint. The Sony, JVC, and Mitsubishi reduced theirs because their TVs are much deeper. I've seen some Mitsubishis though that have it pretty bad. When Samsung reduced the depth of their TVs, and went with the thin bezel design, this increased the geometry problems because of the angle the light has to reflect at. I could be wrong, but that is what a tech explained to me for the cause of "pincushion" and the HL-TXX76s have it the worst because they are the thinnest...even the HL-TXX87/89s are deeper. Read on the HL-S XX87/88 forum some of the fixes people made to reduce pincushion and take advantage of the play in bezel/screen. There are even pictures on there of TVs with 0 geometry issues. I do agree Samsung needs to fix this for everyone that has issue with it. I'm every more concerned with seeing how many light engines fail and other similar issues. When you call for service it often takes like a week for a tech to show up. When you have a full TV failure that is a pain, as is constantly taking off work.
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:53 PM
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I hear ya man. What's a TV without straight lines???? What are you moving on to?


I'm debating between the 87 LED series or the Sony A2020.

I can get a smoking deal on the 87 series right now and I'm leaning more towards it because I really like the pictures quality on these Samsung's.
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BDP33 View Post

I'm debating between the 87 LED series or the Sony A2020.

I can get a smoking deal on the 87 series right now and I'm leaning more towards it because I really like the pictures quality on these Samsung's.


Do yourself a favor, read the Sammy LED thread and wait for the Sony A3000 coming in a just a few weeks. I'm done with Samsung after going through 4 Tvs in 6 months with them. I give them credit for trying to help but each replacement set showed up with issues, LEDs had blotches all over the screen and visible rainbows, the HL-T has the bowing picture and it's just up an died in the first 2 hours. Samsung should be embarrassed at the lack of quality control.

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Old 07-18-2007, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeynavy1 View Post

Well, talking terminology confusion...I thought the "curvature" of the picture on 4:3 content was known as "pincushion" not "bowing." Also, I didn't realize Sony had fixed the green blob issue. Unless the A2020 somehow fixed it, the A2000 and the earlier XBR1 both had it, and Sony refused to do anything about it, saying it was normal. When I had my XBR1 for a week, they said it was normal operation and that after 30 minutes of the TV being on it would go away. It would get reduced but not go away, so watching anything with a light background had the blob in the middle of the screen and in the corners. Hockey games were horrible. As for the geometry issues, a lot of it is caused by the reduction in footprint. The Sony, JVC, and Mitsubishi reduced theirs because their TVs are much deeper. I've seen some Mitsubishis though that have it pretty bad. When Samsung reduced the depth of their TVs, and went with the thin bezel design, this increased the geometry problems because of the angle the light has to reflect at. I could be wrong, but that is what a tech explained to me for the cause of "pincushion" and the HL-TXX76s have it the worst because they are the thinnest...even the HL-TXX87/89s are deeper. Read on the HL-S XX87/88 forum some of the fixes people made to reduce pincushion and take advantage of the play in bezel/screen. There are even pictures on there of TVs with 0 geometry issues. I do agree Samsung needs to fix this for everyone that has issue with it. I'm every more concerned with seeing how many light engines fail and other similar issues. When you call for service it often takes like a week for a tech to show up. When you have a full TV failure that is a pain, as is constantly taking off work.

I agree with the taking off work part...thats a pain in the butt. Luckily the service center near me has started doing Saturdays...I even know the people personally sue to having to go to them so much.

Anyways...."pincushion" is synonymous with "bowing". I also wrote above in a post that the issue has to do with the angle the light reflects at b/x of the slim tv, and that any deviance in the screen will exemplify the problem.
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Old 07-18-2007, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by hdspringer98 View Post

Do yourself a favor, read the Sammy LED thread and wait for the Sony A3000 coming in a just a few weeks. I'm done with Samsung after going through 4 Tvs in 6 months with them. I give them credit for trying to help but each replacement set showed up with issues, LEDs had blotches all over the screen and visible rainbows, the HL-T has the bowing picture and it's just up an died in the first 2 hours. Samsung should be embarrassed at the lack of quality control.

I'd probably follow your route but I've had my HL-S for too long so I know I can't get a refund without legal action. I'm still waiting for my approval to exchange for the HL-T...2 days and counting now. If they turn me down, or that TV comes defective...I'll take advantage of being Navy and go to my legal office to take action for a refund.
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Old 07-18-2007, 05:29 PM
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im gonna take a picture today to post up here so you guys can see my issue. It is so small that it is literally non noticable when there isn't a ticker on screen
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