Official Sony KDS-XXA3000 OWNERS THREAD! - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 06:31 PM
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Hi all,

New poster but long time lurker. I followed the BB purchasing info in this thread (thanks insly u rock bro) and now I will be taking delivery of a A3000 60incher this Saturday. I got it for less than they are currently selling the A2020 (which I am still having a hard time believing). If I can be of any assistance please let me know. This forum has saved me $$$$ so I want to return that with what ever info I can bring to the table.

Thanks again

V
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post #452 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby1 View Post

OK, groto. I shut down my system and hooked up VGA from HTPC to a3000. Enabled cloneview on nvidia 7300 gt and swapped inputs on tv. It immediatley showed up and looked great at 1920x1080. It did however have underscan that I could not get rid of lilke I can on the HDMI input. It had about an inch of black on top and bottom and about 3 inches right and left. I tried to scale it to 1808x1016, which is where my HDMI totally fills the picture, but it gave error of unsupportive resolution again. I used 1280x720 and it worked also, just with more black.

Hope that helps, Brian

You really don't want to use the VGA input under normal circumstances. It is just the low-tech way Sony wants users to connect PCs to the TV so they don't get calls about overscan.

Since the TV has overscan, any normal PC input will cut off the Start Menu and the sides and top. Sony knows this and the average PC user won't know how to adjust for this like gumby1 did. Rather than have to deal with dissappointed customers, the input takes the signal it gets, then resizes it to fit well inside the viewable area of the screen. What you are left with is a softened resized image that is very poor for reading text but is probably OK for pictures and games and maybe DVDs. You won't be able to adjust the inch or so of black space around the image either.

Your best bet is to use a DVI-HDMI cable and go from there. You will initially have overscan, but you can compensate for this with your video card.

On a side note, I wonder if in the service menu you can adjust the TVs overscan. I doubt it, but it would be nice.

DaveJ
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post #453 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 06:35 PM
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I'm sorry to ask this again but can someone measure the distance from the bottom of the TV to the edge of the screen? I'm trying to decide of how tall of a stand I want to get so I know where the center of the screen would be. Unless there is a diagram somewhere online that shows all of this.....I have no idea where its at though.
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post #454 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by IlliniDawg01 View Post

More fake glass + more metal = more weight.

DaveJ

Fake glass weighs more than real glass??

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post #455 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 07:17 PM
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Well I know we can't talk price, but I used the old "try try again" analogy.

I was able to get a local BB here in the Tampa area to pricematch TechDepot, provided I would get the extended warranty (which I was going to do anyways). I will just use the 12% off on a blu-ray drive instead.

It is getting delivered on Friday or Saturday.... can't wait to join the club.

Gumby - have you played with your nvidia settings any more?

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post #456 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rgreenpc View Post

Well I know we can't talk price, but I used the old "try try again" analogy.

I was able to get a local BB here in the Tampa area to pricematch TechDepot, provided I would get the extended warranty (which I was going to do anyways). I will just use the 12% off on a blu-ray drive instead.

Gumby - have you played with your nvidia settings any more?

Mine first did the 12%, then matched the TD price and just charged me the shipping TD would of charged, which is fair. I also got 10% of the difference credited, per their policy. They didn't make me buy their warranty, either. I ended up getting the 55a3000 very little more than the TD link.
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post #457 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokenAshes View Post

I'm sorry to ask this again but can someone measure the distance from the bottom of the TV to the edge of the screen? I'm trying to decide of how tall of a stand I want to get so I know where the center of the screen would be. Unless there is a diagram somewhere online that shows all of this.....I have no idea where its at though.

I mentioned it in an earlier post, it is about 8.5".

Brian
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post #458 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rgreenpc View Post

Well I know we can't talk price, but I used the old "try try again" analogy.

Gumby - have you played with your nvidia settings any more?

Not really, it looks great at my previous settings, 1808X1016. This is what it takes to fill the screen edge to edge with no loss.

Brian
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post #459 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokenAshes View Post

I'm sorry to ask this again but can someone measure the distance from the bottom of the TV to the edge of the screen? I'm trying to decide of how tall of a stand I want to get so I know where the center of the screen would be. Unless there is a diagram somewhere online that shows all of this.....I have no idea where its at though.

Sony designs it's default stand to hold this TV so as to maximize the sweet spot - you may be best off to look at the height of the standard Sony Stand to determine your height even if you don't want theirs. Should be 19-20" high.

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post #460 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by gumby1 View Post

OK, after reading the manual and adjusting the horizontal position, I came up with 1808X1016, and now everything is centered. I put a menu right up to the left side and the bar on the menu is not exactly vertical. I will play some more and see what happens.

Brian


Were you able to get it vertical?

I may end up calling out an ISF guy after it gets all set up.

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post #461 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tomtbone View Post

Yeah thats me I'm so used to standing in front of my Sony 36" CRT that it would take some getting used to.

Once seated though, the gorillas on the screen were much clearer than the Sony XBR LCD right next to it. Their hair was much more detailed even though the signal they had going into the tvs was crap.

You make a very valid point that many that casually view in the stores don't understand especially now that they don't maximize the smaller viewing angle of the SXRD with many in-store displays and their focus on FP's.

When I owned the gen1 SXRD 60" initially I was disappointed until I got used to the value of that sweet spot with an HD Movie and the first movie that blew me away and haunts me since the wife made me sell it since she can't stand RPTV's form factor was an HD Broadcast of Van Helsing which I'd seen many times and in the theater but son of a bitch when my wife and I viewed it on the SXRD it was amazing - the shadow detail throughout the film that was brought out was amazing from the beginning to the end. What was striking is my wife repeatedly said maybe we should keep it because the PQ and details kept making you go WoW (her obsessive compulsiveness won out though and it was gone).

So WTF - I follow the advice of the Panny Fans here and follow the herd (huge mistake) and I get a plasma and a week later I'm viewing the same damn HD Broadcast and ZERO WoW factor! Plus during daytime I can't see the damn screen except for reflections and washout.

Bottom line is damn while it may require sweet spot seating it's friggin rewarding - the flat panels have the coolness factor but the WoW factor that Insly and others will report is genuine IMO and hard to find those shadow details on any other panel. This gen panel should be refined yet further and Bravo to the new owners - so if you have an HD DVD pop in Van Helsing HD and see for yourself in that sweet spot since the movie is filled with dark scenes, fast camera pans and B/W and brilliant color and the details on the Vamps are HOTTT!

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post #462 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 08:24 PM
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Thank you for the measurement replies, sorry I must of missed it before.
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post #463 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 08:24 PM
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Westa -

Great Post!!!

I have been there... my wife was ready to let me spend 5k on a new Samsung when it comes out, but I just couldn't justify it.

Having seen some of the images this thing puts out (even from photos)... lets just say I was very impressed.

My local BB won't be carrying this unit (had to get it shipped from the warehouse) but thats ok, as I couldn't fit it in my SUV anyways...

It has the features I want 1080p, 24p, 120hz.... my wife saw a smaller version in the SonyStyle store and she loved it. She thought it had a better picture than the XBR next to it... and I had to agree .

Is this unit the end-all-be-all, no... not by a long shot, but it IS what I was looking for. Here is to hoping I never have to use the extended warranty.

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post #464 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew4msu View Post

Fake glass weighs more than real glass??

What weighs more, a tonne of fake or a tonne of real glass?

Thanks for the geometry pics, they don't look too bad, but that right side cuttoff can certainly be looked at.

Very good info, btw, about the over/undescan adjustment and recommendation for using your PC's DVI output. The few times I've done the PC to SONY thing on an RPTV, that's the route I've chosen... On the LCD sets (non-RP, can't just call them Bravia's now I guess...) it's less of an issue, of course.

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post #465 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

I have been to SOny site and looked at the manual for the A3000.

Page 37 of the PDF shows Motion Enhancer, Motion Naturalizer and Cinemotion.

I see on the cover of the manual it has the 24p Tru Cinema logo, but no where inside the manual does it state it or show how 24p Tru Cinema works as far as I can see unless it is "part" of the Cinemotion or another feature.

Then again I didn't see anything about Motionflow 120 hz either, but I am wondering if Tru Cinema 24p is part of it or do they work together somehow.

There won't be any "how to" in the manual for 24p true cinema. This feature is for a 24p source like Blu-Ray. When you watch a 24p movie there is no conversion being done, you are watching it in it's purity, no 2:3, 3:2, whatever. The VP is bypassing any processing automatically when it senses a 24p source. When you are playing anything other than a pure 24p source the VP kicks in and interpolates frames to settle down the judder when watching film based movies.
"24p true cinema" means just that, the "true" means no processing required. Now, if it turns out that Sony made a mistake and didn't mean to put the logo in the manual and the bezel then i would hope one of you guys would sue Sony for false representation.
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post #466 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 09:30 PM
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insly, gumb1, Lands and whoever has got their TVs:

What settings are you guys using for your sets? Are you using the cnet recommended settings for the A2000, or have you managed to do better? I would be interested in settings for both SD, HD and DVD. Thanks!

Nikhil.
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post #467 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rgreenpc View Post

Were you able to get it vertical?

I may end up calling out an ISF guy after it gets all set up.

After further scrutiny, I pushed in on the cabinet a little bit and it does give a bit. The irregularity might be from the plastic cabinet not totally being straight and not the geometry of the TV.

Brian
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post #468 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 10:19 PM
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Took another SS to show overscan. Again, i shrunk the pic to 50%.

Brian
LL
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post #469 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 10:55 PM
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Insly and others with the 55" or 60" A3000, how far are you from the screen. I'm about 8 feet from the screen to the edge of the couch. Head will probably be another foot back just sitting back. I do like to sit on the floor in front of the couch sometimes, which would be about 8 feet.

I thought 55" was the sweet spot for my particular setup. I don't intend to be where I am forever, so I'm wondering if the 60" will be tolerable.

I'm also unsure as to how the size will impact the viewing angle in this setup. I'm in an apartment and the kitch table is to the right of the ent. center area.
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post #470 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hifi View Post

Insly and others with the 55" or 60" A3000, how far are you from the screen. I'm about 8 feet from the screen to the edge of the couch. Head will probably be another foot back just sitting back. I do like to sit on the floor in front of the couch sometimes, which would be about 8 feet.

I thought 55" was the sweet spot for my particular setup. I don't intend to be where I am forever, so I'm wondering if the 60" will be tolerable.

I'm also unsure as to how the size will impact the viewing angle in this setup. I'm in an apartment and the kitch table is to the right of the ent. center area.

I'm about 8-9ft away from mine and it's pretty much perfect. It's VERY bright though on bright settings, so 60" might be pushing it, however you can change it as you want to, so if you think you might want the bigger later, than get it. Not enough cost not to.
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post #471 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 11:01 PM
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gumby, thanks a lot for testing all that on the vga input. it looks like for a pc hdmi is the way to go... i wonder how using a 360 over vga would be though since it's different from a pc? i wonder if it would fill the whole screen? A friend of mine has the samsung 1080p RPTV from last year and his vga input takes the 360 or a computer and displays it full screen without any overscan after adjusting. I find it odd that sony would include the vga on this tv if it doesn't function completely correctly like they do on the samsungs.

Also if anyone can test out the component inputs at 1080p that would be nice. I know its a supported feature but since no one has tried it yet it would be nice to see if it actually does work such something such as the xbox 360. Thanks.
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post #472 of 15290 Old 08-15-2007, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, it does do 1080p over component. Tested with my brother's 360, looked fine.
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post #473 of 15290 Old 08-16-2007, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insly View Post

Yes, it does do 1080p over component. Tested with my brother's 360, looked fine.

Hey insly, can you call the Sony techies and ask them if the A3000 does the 24p true cinema feature? If they say no, only the XBR, tell them you and other owners are going to sue Sony for false advertising. Sony may have screwed up big time. This is a major feature and one that cemented my decision on buying the Sony over the Toshiba LCD (which does accept 24p). If they confirm that it was a mistake i will go to the HD Guru. He did an article about Vizio and other 2nd tier vendors not having warranties and sure enough Vizio issued a statement saying they will change their policy. We need to know once and for all if Sony made a mistake or if the website is at fault. I have been looking into this and i have a feeling the A3000 does not have this feature. i am pissed.
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post #474 of 15290 Old 08-16-2007, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipcrkr View Post

Hey insly, can you call the Sony techies and ask them if the A3000 does the 24p true cinema feature? If they say no, only the XBR, tell them you and other owners are going to sue Sony for false advertising. Sony may have screwed up big time. This is a major feature and one that cemented my decision on buying the Sony over the Toshiba LCD (which does accept 24p). If they confirm that it was a mistake i will go to the HD Guru. He did an article about Vizio and other 2nd tier vendors not having warranties and sure enough Vizio issued a statement saying they will change their policy. We need to know once and for all if Sony made a mistake or if the website is at fault. I have been looking into this and i have a feeling the A3000 does not have this feature. i am pissed.

I am still skeptical too so I called today. Sony tech support is saying that the A3000 DOES do 24p True Cinema. I asked them if it just accepts 24p or if it actually displays 24p and they said displays 24p.

Accept and display are two important differences I learned a few years back when buying my first HDTV. My current set accepts 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i, but it displays at it's native resolution of 788p.

If the A3000 does indeed have True Cinema 24p, at this point besides the DRC of 2.5 on the XBR versus 1.0 on the A3000, and the ACE (Advanced Contrast Enhancer), and possibly inputs, I can't see where double the cost is in the XBR. No matter how you slice it you are NOT getting double the value. The picture quality will not be double, nor will any other feature. At that price point with a large percentage off that some are getting, one could get the new 60 inch Pioneer Kuro Plasma instead of the XBR5.
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post #475 of 15290 Old 08-16-2007, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

I am still skeptical too so I called today. Sony tech support is saying that the A3000 DOES do 24p True Cinema. I asked them if it just accepts 24p or if it actually displays 24p and they said displays 24p.

Accept and display are two important differences I learned a few years back when buying my first HDTV. My current set accepts 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i, but it displays at it's native resolution of 788p.


The panel (A3000) is NATIVE 1080P/24 per the spec sheets and what Sony stated thus it should end the debate - you really don't need to know anything else as that is the default of the display. Your panel was not.

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post #476 of 15290 Old 08-16-2007, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

No matter how you slice it you are NOT getting double the value. The picture quality will not be double, nor will any other feature.

But it will offer a better picture, more features, and a slimmer cabinet design. Each XBR has been better than the base model, end of story. The 3000 may be a better value, but it is not the better TV. Value is in the eye of the beholder.
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post #477 of 15290 Old 08-16-2007, 05:32 AM
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The panel (A3000) is NATIVE 1080P/24 per the spec sheets and what Sony stated thus it should end the debate - you really don't need to know anything else as that is the default of the display. Your panel was not.


Sort of, but I'd say not quite right- strictly speaking. I have not seen any "spec sheet" that says the display has a "NATIVE" refresh rate of 24Hz. The information from Sony suggests that the display is native 1080p/120Hz and that all accepted inputs are converted to that resolution and frequency.

To my read, in the case of 24fps input, if you turn "Motionflow/Motion Enhancer" (frame interpolation?) OFF and also turn "Motion Naturalizer" (black frame insertion?) OFF the A3000 with its 24p True Cinema would take each frame and repeat it 5 times without further processing to bring the refresh rate up to the display's native 120Hz (24 X 5 =120). That would give you an effective refresh rate of 24Hz (since each individual frame isn't changing when it's refreshed those 5 times), but the display would still have a "native' refresh rate of 120Hz. This scenario would be consistent with Sony's published specs and the tech support rep's claims. Makes more sense to me than the display having multiple refresh rates.
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post #478 of 15290 Old 08-16-2007, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

If the A3000 does indeed have True Cinema 24p, at this point besides the DRC of 2.5 on the XBR versus 1.0 on the A3000, and the ACE (Advanced Contrast Enhancer), and possibly inputs, I can't see where double the cost is in the XBR. No matter how you slice it you are NOT getting double the value.

The XBR also has a 180w lamp vs the 120w. This means Sony can use a screen with less gain which may help with SSE. It may not be any one thing that makes the XBR better, but if you add it all up, there should be a noticeable picture improvement as many people on this forum have mentioned in the various XBR threads.

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post #479 of 15290 Old 08-16-2007, 07:21 AM
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Sort of, but I'd say not quite right- strictly speaking. I have not seen any "spec sheet" that says the display has a "NATIVE" refresh rate of 24Hz. The information from Sony suggests that the display is native 1080p/120Hz and that all accepted inputs are converted to that resolution and frequency.

To my read, in the case of 24fps input, if you turn "Motionflow/Motion Enhancer" (frame interpolation?) OFF and also turn "Motion Naturalizer" (black frame insertion?) OFF the A3000 with its 24p True Cinema would take each frame and repeat it 5 times without further processing to bring the refresh rate up to the display's native 120Hz (24 X 5 =120). That would give you an effective refresh rate of 24Hz (since each individual frame isn't changing when it's refreshed those 5 times), but the display would still have a "native' refresh rate of 120Hz. This scenario would be consistent with Sony's published specs and the tech support rep's claims. Makes more sense to me than the display having multiple refresh rates.

I found a post earlier that states when the poster hooked his A3000 up to his PC and set the resolution to 1080p that he had the option for monitor refresh rates of 24hz and 60hz. Wouldn't that suggest multiple refresh rate functionality? Granted we don't know what the "optimal" refresh rate is for the display but it seems like the engine is fully capable of 24Hz display.

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Originally Posted by gumby1 View Post

Yea, DVI to HDMI, 7300GT for the card (nice and quiet, no fan). I am a gamer, but this is not an all out gaming rig. I will mainly play UT2004 and Titan Quest on this. I am using an AMD 3800X2, 2 GB of PC3200 ram, 500 GB HD, and that 7300 GT. I noticed something funny. When I turned on my PC it had previously been on my 32", so it was set to 720P. When I changed the resolution to 1080P, it also gave me the option to go to either 60Hz or 24Hz

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post #480 of 15290 Old 08-16-2007, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximX View Post

I found a post earlier that states when the poster hooked his A3000 up to his PC and set the resolution to 1080p that he had the option for monitor refresh rates of 24hz and 60hz. Wouldn't that suggest multiple refresh rate functionality? Granted we don't know what the "optimal" refresh rate is for the display but it seems like the engine is fully capable of 24Hz display.

Well now, that's an interesting question. The A3000 manual indicates that it accepts several input frequencies from a PC over the VGA input (and we had already established that it accepts both 60Hz and 24Hz input via HDMI), but it says that it recommends 60Hz input (via VGA) for best results and I didn't find where it discusses output frequency to the display.

I, of course, haven't seen what Gumby1 was talking about myself but the A3000 could do the same with PC inputs that I think it does with other sources for input and display it at a "true" refresh rate of 120Hz, but some other effective refresh rate depending on how it repeats frames. We'll see.
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