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post #631 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaytonMG View Post

This is going to sound weird but stay with me here... I have a reciever that can only pass 1080i (planning on getting one that does 1080p as soon as one comes out that has the features I like) so I am running most stuff at 1080i on this TV but as I've said, the TV still detects my Blu-Rays as 24p. That's because there's the option on the PS3 where you can set it to "On". If I turn it off it quits detecting it as 1080/24p. Do you guys thing I should shut off the 1080/24p on the player, or should I leave it on as it wont make a difference?

So why not feed the PS3 direct to the TV, instead of going through the receiver? Generally folks are MUCH better off if they can avoid not sending HDMI through a receiver. Yes, there are other "hassles" in switching two devices, but that can be resolved with a good remote control.

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post #632 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 02:21 PM
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Because of uncompressed audio.
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post #633 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaytonMG View Post

Because of uncompressed audio.

I guess that I don't understand that. Are you saying that the only way that you can get uncompressed audio from the PS3 to the receiver is through the HDMI connection? I'm not a gamer so I wouldn't know.

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post #634 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 02:39 PM
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Yup. I could do an optical connection, but that kind of defeats the purpose for the audio then (might as well stick to DVD at that point).
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post #635 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaytonMG View Post

This is going to sound weird but stay with me here... I have a reciever that can only pass 1080i (planning on getting one that does 1080p as soon as one comes out that has the features I like) so I am running most stuff at 1080i on this TV but as I've said, the TV still detects my Blu-Rays as 24p. That's because there's the option on the PS3 where you can set it to "On". If I turn it off it quits detecting it as 1080/24p. Do you guys thing I should shut off the 1080/24p on the player, or should I leave it on as it wont make a difference?


Does the receiver down convert hdmi, or does it do a pass thru so that 1080/24 from the PS3 go into and out of the receiver as 1080/24?

If you are seeing 1080/24 on the tv input, then I would think it is a pass thru.
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post #636 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

I guess that I don't understand that. Are you saying that the only way that you can get uncompressed audio from the PS3 to the receiver is through the HDMI connection?

HDMI is the current audio standard. I believe it passes a higher bit-rate, offers more surround channels, and can be used for audio processing that the other digital audio connections cannot. On most points, including sound quality, the usefulness is highly debatable. On these forums HDMI audio is the king, in spite of how it probably actually provides no discernable sound quality improvement.

As far as I can tell my Denon does seem to be the cause of why I've seen video cut out every once in a while. A movie will be playing along and then the picture will go out for a second. I've seen it happen on both my TVs and both my HD players, so the receiver is the only thing left in the chain that could mess up video. I just figured there was something wrong with the receiver and it couldn't be HDMI. I hadn't seen many recommendations for not sending HDMI through a receiver, but I might consider changing my connections now that the A3000 has the three HDMIs I need. I would still have to use a digital connection to delay my XA2 audio though, and I don't know of any reasonably-priced way to split HDMI.


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Originally Posted by ClaytonMG View Post

I could do an optical connection, but that kind of defeats the purpose for the audio then (might as well stick to DVD at that point).

That's not entirely true. When I first got my HD DVD player I compared Bourne Supremacy to the DVD version over analog outs. Without a doubt the sound was better on the HD DVD, but most likely it was at a lower than maximum optical/coax bit-rate on the DVD. If that's true then the HD version would still be a step up even if you're using the bit-rate limited digital connections.


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post #637 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

HDMI is the current audio standard. I believe it passes a higher bit-rate, offers more surround channels, and can be used for audio processing that the other digital audio connections cannot.

I haven't been following the digital audio stuff that much. But are you saying that these higher-bit rate features aren't available over optical connectios? Bummer. From a video purist standpoint: direct connection to the display is preferable as it allows individual settings for each signal source, going through any sort of switcher does not.

My preference would be the direct video connect at the expense of loosing out on higher bit rate audio.

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post #638 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

are you saying that these higher-bit rate features aren't available over optical connectios?

Yes, the optical and coax audio standards are lower bit-rate. Typical HDMI can pass the complete decoded audio from HD disks and version 1.3 can be used for limited outboard decoding. The benefit is questionable as anything more than marketing, and I'm not so sure I would be able to choose the higher bit-rate in a blind A/B test on my Krell even though I can pick out differences in lossy MP3s against CDs.


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From a video purist standpoint: direct connection to the display is preferable as it allows individual settings for each signal source, going through any sort of switcher does not.

I haven't tested my Blu-ray player as thoroughly as my HD DVD player, but from a practical standpoint of looking at GetGray measurements my players seem to be fine with the same settings over HDMI. The local calibrator I had look at my A2000 also set the players the same.


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post #639 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 04:13 PM
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i have a hand smudge on my scren ( i think its on the outside hopefully) whast the best stuff to use to clean it? is that monster display cleaner good?
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post #640 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joevfx View Post

cinemotion should not be doin anythign to a 1080/24p signal. the best setting for a 24p movie, are cinemotion OFF, and motion enhancer off or standard, ( which ever setting u like the look of better)


Thank you very much. Those setting seem to work well (CM - off, ME - standard)

Does Cinemotion work well for anything?
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post #641 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 05:27 PM
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Yes, for 24fps films on TV channels that provide a good clean, well tele-cine'd picture, without any animated graphic "bugs", ads or other 60hz content that can fubar the process.

Note, not all TV channels do a very good job of tele-cine, even when they don't overlay graphics. On channels like that you might see strange motion-flicker or stuttering.
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post #642 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

I haven't been following the digital audio stuff that much. But are you saying that these higher-bit rate features aren't available over optical connectios? Bummer. From a video purist standpoint: direct connection to the display is preferable as it allows individual settings for each signal source, going through any sort of switcher does not.

My preference would be the direct video connect at the expense of loosing out on higher bit rate audio.

This brings up the question - "Is there any difference between Standard, Custom, and Cinema Picture Modes when all user controlled settings are the same?" When I get around to hooking up my 705, I plan to connect my PC, DVR, and 705 to the Sony's 3 HDMI inputs. I intend to connect the Sammy 1200 and Oppo 981 to the Sony. I would like to use the Standard Picture Mode for the Oppo and Custom Mode for the Sammy allowing custom settings for each. Theat leaves one more HDMI input on the 705 in case I go with HD DVD in the future with the Cinema Mode left for it. Does anyone see any problem with this setup?

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post #643 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDextreme View Post

Thank you very much. Those setting seem to work well (CM - off, ME - standard)

Does Cinemotion work well for anything?

depending on your DVD player you wont need to use it at all (if you have a dvd player that upconverts to 1080p, or a progressive scan dvd player in general cause the dvd player will be doing the reverse 3:2.) i would keep it on though come cable or sailite TV for when you watch a signal thats 1080i or 480i.
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post #644 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joevfx View Post

i have a hand smudge on my scren ( i think its on the outside hopefully) whast the best stuff to use to clean it? is that monster display cleaner good?

Manual says the screen is coated and to use a soft cloth....need to be very careful of any cleaner that might disolve the coating.

A cloth should let you figure out if the handprint is on the outside, or inside...then you will know whether to pursue a cleaner
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post #645 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

I haven't tested my Blu-ray player as thoroughly as my HD DVD player, but from a practical standpoint of looking at GetGray measurements my players seem to be fine with the same settings over HDMI. The local calibrator I had look at my A2000 also set the players the same.

But, what about other sources (cable box, DVHS, HD camcorder, etc.)? Many digital sources really can do with the same settings, but others (such as a cable box) may need different ones - when I fiddle with "Gray's Anatomy" I don't want those settings messing up the cal on my latest Blu-Ray.

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post #646 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

But, what about other sources (cable box, DVHS, HD camcorder, etc.)? Many digital sources really can do with the same settings, but others (such as a cable box) may need different ones - when I fiddle with "Gray's Anatomy" I don't want those settings messing up the cal on my latest Blu-Ray.

It is pretty much a lose/lose situation for the consumer. I haven't heard any of the new audio compressions yet, but I believe that some of them are actually lossless... matching the audio master perfectly.

What we need are Blu-ray/HD DVD players that have two HDMI outputs... one to pass audio and one to pass video. Maybe we will get them in the future.


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post #647 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by hwjohn View Post

What we need are Blu-ray/HD DVD players that have two HDMI outputs... one to pass audio and one to pass video. Maybe we will get them in the future.

Or update the optical standards to accomodate these new formats.

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post #648 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davenrino View Post
Is there any difference between Standard, Custom, and Cinema Picture Modes when all user controlled settings are the same?
Yes my TV is different in each of the three modes. I put the basic differences in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post12114734 Like davehancock agreed you might be able to get by with the same settings for DVD, Blu-ray, and HD DVD players.

In short compared to Custom:
- Standard always has artificial detail enhancement, even when sharpness is 0 to 10
- Cinema alters the grayscale (White Balance and Color Temperature settings)
- Color is reduced in both Standard and Cinema

Here are my measurements which are almost the exact same settings; the only change was that brightness was turned up slightly on Cinema so that 2% above black wasn't clipped from DVE HD.

 

Modes.zip 54.9130859375k . file


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post #649 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 06:36 PM
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See that's where the weird thing comes in. It wont pass full 1080p, only 1080i, but it will pass the 24fps (and then the TV says 1080/24p). I'd use analog connections but 1, the PS3 doesn't have them, and 2, I can never seem to get the levels correct. Plus then I can't use THX and all that jazz. Right now I am just waiting for a reciever (preferably from Yamaha) that accepts 7.1 sound, passes 1080/24p and is THX certified. But that's a whole other topic. But here's what I've decided. If for some weird reason (like mine) you need to use 1080i but you can still use the 24fps, DO IT! When I shut it off, I got were shaky things on the TV, almost like the sharpness was jacked up.

As for the audio aspect. I can tell a difference between uncompressed/lossless and Dolby Digital, but normally it's only when you test them side by side. I figure if there's an uncompressed track I can use, I'd like to use it. But I have heard that coax/optical have enough bandwidth to pass uncompressed/lossless audio tracks, it's just there's no copy protection so the player prevents it.
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post #650 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 06:45 PM
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The other benefit of HDMI is one less wire.

I run my three sources through my Denon 4308. One remote, the Denon one, and three buttons on it to change sources. I use the switch for my PS3 and HTPC, but upconvert my SA HD8300 as the pic even with 1080i is slightly better upconverted to 1080p.

Again, less wires as I have one and only one going to the tv. Then I don't have to switch sources on the tv and also each remote.

This is much better and more stream lined in my opinion. Now aas far as pic quality and having setting for one source the the other, I think it is something one gets used to or hopes the settings for HDMI 1 which is all I use will be ok for all my sources. Really for cable and even blu ray quality and color can differ from channel to channel and BD to BD that having one setting and one HDMI for each source seems it wouldn't have that much affect on it anyway. I could see if the sources were consistent, but since they aren't it is a wash to me.
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post #651 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaytonMG View Post

But I have heard that coax/optical have enough bandwidth to pass uncompressed/lossless audio tracks, it's just there's no copy protection so the player prevents it.

Ahhh -- "I see" (said the blind man as he picked up has hammer and saw).

Copy protection (unfortunately) rules!!

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post #652 of 4486 Old 11-05-2007, 10:11 PM
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hugh: Have you checked the PQ with a direct connect to the connection via your receiver? I'm not a big fan of adding circuitry between the signal to the set.
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post #653 of 4486 Old 11-06-2007, 01:55 AM
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^^ Yes. As I said in my earlier post, I use the Denon 4308 as both an HDMI switch and upconverter. Since my PC has a high resolution and the PS3 is 1080p, I don't upconvert them, but I do upconvert cable and it is slightly better PQ. I tried connecting my HD DVR directly and there is no difference compared to running it through the HDMI switch on the receiver. I always use my teenage kids as guinea pigs for AV quality. Although I am the HT enthusiast, they see things that I don't. I really think a lot has to do with age, even though I am only 46. Kids are more perceptive.
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post #654 of 4486 Old 11-06-2007, 06:57 AM
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i have to say, Motion Enhancer is THE coolest feature on this TV. it gives my HD DVDs a 3D effect to them (especially in movies with heavy CG i.e. Transformers, King Kong), while giving broadcast shows a sometimes "DV" look to them. i have a question though, i see very noticeable "ghosting" of the image even with motion enhancement and motion neutralizer on. i've also tweaked the noise reduction settings, but it's still there. seems to be much more apparent on actual shows with light AND dark scenes, than on something like ESPN HD. any help for a n00b?
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post #655 of 4486 Old 11-06-2007, 07:00 AM
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A good HDMI receiver will not affect the picture quality in any way. The video entire signal is digital and simply passed through "untouched" - again, with a good receiver. If you were passing a component signal, I might be a bit concerned.

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post #656 of 4486 Old 11-06-2007, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronniedobbs View Post

i see very noticeable "ghosting" of the image even with motion enhancement and motion neutralizer on.

This TV has an offset image that seems to be related to the TV's optical layout as discussed in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=ghosting I can notice it with static images and generally not when watching video, but I suppose it might be noticable with video if you have your TV set to output a lot of light. Vivid and Standard modes seem to have a ghosting effect due to the image processing. A high sharpness will add white halos and a low sharpness can seem to defocus the image. The only other thing I can think of is that Motion Enhancer on high is said to have an increased possibility of artifacts, but I don't use it so I don't know what that might include.


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post #657 of 4486 Old 11-06-2007, 08:34 AM
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Some things I thought I'd mention...

- I had Motion Enhancer - Standard + Cinemotion - Auto1 for my HD cable box since I got cable service hooked up in my new place. After playing around for a while, I ended up turning ME completely off with Cinemtion on Auto2. The picture it gives is a whole lot better if you enjoy going to a movie theater - that DV look just wasn't doing it for me anymore. Made me feel like I was just "watching" movies than "experiencing" them.

- I'm using Motion Naturalizer on my LG DVD (upscaling) player, on the setting for "bright rooms", with the player outputting 480i. It looks really fantastic. In fact, with all the lights off I just turn on Theater mode, and I feel like I'm at the movies. YMMV of course depending on your eye and tastes, but I suggest folks give MN and Theater mode a shot for non HD sources. =)
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post #658 of 4486 Old 11-06-2007, 07:38 PM
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I'm still trying to determine which Iris I like best. My viewing is done in a dark room and despite the fact that "Auto 1" seems to give the best contrast ratio, the high light output does give a bit of a "glowing" affect on very dark scenes. In addition, it's definitely too bright for my eyes.

I'm experimenting with Iris at min, low, and med. Min Iris seems to be best for blacks, but I do like a bit more of a "contrasty" image - so long as it's not eye-straining.

In addition, for those of you with equipment, do you find Iris modes affecting color primaries with "standard" or "Wide" gammut?

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post #659 of 4486 Old 11-06-2007, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

do you find Iris modes affecting color primaries with "standard" or "Wide" gammut?

I'm not sure what you're asking. For the most part the primaries seem to be fixed. They might move a bit, but nothing like changing the standard vs wide setting http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post11972137


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post #660 of 4486 Old 11-06-2007, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

I'm not sure what you're asking. For the most part the primaries seem to be fixed. They might move a bit, but nothing like changing the standard vs wide setting http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post11972137

What can I use to view those files after I unzip them? Did you find standard to be more accurate than Wide?

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