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post #2101 of 4486 Old 02-06-2008, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleey0 View Post

To be honest, I can't even notice it from that pic. If it really bothers you then, by all means, take it back.

You don't notice it? what about the big pink blob in the middle?

Trouble is, I already took one back and I like what I have, but I want it to have a good pic and I'm afraid that another would be worse.

SO there is no way to get rid of it huh?
There is none according to that NY TIMES reply.
damn
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post #2102 of 4486 Old 02-06-2008, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SeldomSeen31 View Post

Thanks for the reply mdavej. I have that exact cable from monoprice. Ordered it when I got the Wii. I have it set at 480p but I will give a look at 480i and see what I think. Maybe it's just the fact that I more than tripled my viewing area could have something to do with my disappointment. I'm not expecting miracles. If anyone else has a suggestion or a setting list for what you have found to be optimal for the Wii that would be great.

Do you have a receiver that can upconvert it to 720p or higher? Its what I did and it looks well.. good, alot better than 480i/p
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post #2103 of 4486 Old 02-06-2008, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RROD View Post

OK yeah I see, thats basically the same pattern I have when its just a gray background... the trouble is, is that it permeates through the color, be it B&W or color.

All indications I've seen are that SXRD generally doesn't produce an entirely uniform gray screen. If the grayscale isn't uniform across the screen, then sure it will show up in everything else the TV produces. Even the XBR2, which some people claim had improved grayscale uniformity, still most likely wasn't perfect http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post12099764 Another SXRD is almost certain to again not be uniform in a different way. If you find another non-uniformity less-objectionable that's a guessing game. The only practical thing I can think of is to use a bluer setting if you're running warm2. The image you posted never tends toward blue. Sure the non-uniformity would still be there, but it's possible it might be less-objectionable depending upon grayscale settings. Beyond that all my ideas are in the direction of looking at others in stores (color perception might vary with lighting though) or choosing some other technology.


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post #2104 of 4486 Old 02-06-2008, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

The only practical thing I can think of is to use a bluer setting if you're running warm2. The image you posted never tends toward blue.


Speaking of Warm2, I have recently shifted to Warm1. I had Warm2 at first since so many other people did, but I also tried the others -- Cool, Neutral, and Warm1.

After using it for awhile, I feel Warm2 alters the reds too much -- looks like a darker red. I work for a cable channel who uses a bright red logo. Also Comcast has an HD channel that carries color bars most of the time. So, I'm able to look at color bars in HD and I'm able to look at my company's logo in HD. On my TV, "Warm2" just doesn't do either right. "Cool" looks too blue. "Neutral" almost looks right, but "Warm1" seems to be best.

Again, this is eyeballing -- not using calibration. But it's eyeballing color bars and eyeballing colors I see personally every day at work. Warm1 on my TV looks more true. (and this is with Color Space on "Standard" so the greens are not accentuated.)

Your creed may be interesting, but your deeds are much more convincing.
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post #2105 of 4486 Old 02-06-2008, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChazzMatt View Post

Speaking of Warm2, I have recently shifted to Warm1. I had Warm2 at first since so many other people did, but I also tried the others -- Cool, Neutral, and Warm1.

After using it for awhile, I feel Warm2 alters the reds too much -- looks like a darker red. I work for a cable channel who uses a bright red logo. Also Comcast has an HD channel that carries color bars most of the time. So, I'm able to look at color bars in HD and I'm able to look at my company's logo in HD. On my TV, "Warm2" just doesn't do either right. "Cool" looks too blue. "Neutral" almost looks right, but "Warm1" seems to be best.

Again, this is eyeballing -- not using calibration. But it's eyeballing color bars and eyeballing colors I see personally every day at work. Warm1 on my TV looks more true. (and this is with Color Space on "Standard" so the greens are not accentuated.)

many calibrations hae been done and warm2 with the standard color space is extremely close to accurate colors. so basically, u prefer a non color accurate look. which is fine. not everyone needs to like whats correct.
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post #2106 of 4486 Old 02-06-2008, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joevfx View Post

many calibrations hae been done and warm2 with the standard color space is extremely close to accurate colors. so basically, u prefer a non color accurate look. which is fine. not everyone needs to like whats correct.

You came to the EXACT wrong conclusion, buddy. I work in television. At the two local stations I worked at in Virginia, I calibrated many monitors using color bars. Just haven't done it recently -- we have engineers for that -- but I know what calibration is. I see color bars on my TV at home -- in HD. I see the studio, anchors and logos where I work on my TV at home -- in HD.

In spite of your inability to read, I said Warm1 is more accurate on my TV. I see the studio every day, I see the colors in person every day. I see the anchors every day and the clothes they are wearing. So, I'll repeat myself more slowly: WARM1 -- on my TV -- is a more accurate rendering of color.

Wow, such obtuseness is amazing.

Your creed may be interesting, but your deeds are much more convincing.
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post #2107 of 4486 Old 02-06-2008, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RROD View Post



ok.. check it out.. this is ok?

Would anyone consider this to be a "pleasingly saturated colors"?
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post #2108 of 4486 Old 02-06-2008, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudKind View Post

I posted in this thread yesterday.

My post and the post I quoted are gone.

Well to answer that person who brought it up:

I think the sharp/soft differences people see in this set from one to another is based on the overscan.
The 60A3000 I had before was soft, and it had a pretty bad overscan. My new one looks sharp and tight and the overscan is very small.

Yea, our thread entries got wiped out ! Thanks for your input ! OK, so if it is an overscan problem, is there an adequate correction on this ?
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post #2109 of 4486 Old 02-06-2008, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChazzMatt View Post

So, I'll repeat myself more slowly: WARM1 -- on my TV -- is a more accurate rendering of color.

Could be set to set variation. Also, I've found, on average, Warm2 to be CLOSER to D65 (by measurement) than Warm1, but none of them have been the same or dead on either. Also, are you using Standard, Cinema or Custom mode? Cinema makes the display 500K warmer - so Warm1 may well be closer if in Cinema.

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post #2110 of 4486 Old 02-06-2008, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shape View Post

I'll test it tonight with GHIII.

I was in a Best Buy when I saw the lag difference between the TVs.

I was playing PGR4 using 1080p through component. Any fast paced game isn't going to work with motion enhancer. But yeah, a slower one might work. Still, I really strive to eliminate any lag. Gears of War lag is bad enough without the TV lagging, too.

Dled the GH3 demo to give it a try. Repeated each test a few times to be sure.

ME on/game off = 30-35ms
ME off/game off = 25-30ms
ME off/game on = 20-22ms

Being that I was using a wireless controller instead of a wired guitar, I'd expect to see at least a minimal amount of lag from the wireless connection, which seems to account for the 20ms baseline. Throwing everything else on adds another 10-15ms, which is about a frame, which also makes perfect sense due to any interpolation needing to be about a frame ahead.

Just finished playing a few rounds of COD4 with the ME on, and I had no trouble winning 1st place. Any added lag from ME is so minimal in practice that you adjust to it within seconds. I'm not sure what was wrong with your setup that you were getting a 125-250ms lag, but its definitely not due to ME or the set itself.

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post #2111 of 4486 Old 02-06-2008, 09:38 PM
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Should Sharpness be global or can it be different based on input or resolution?

I tried setting the sharpness off the DVE pattern from my 3930 upscalled to 1080P. The black/grey margins are ALWAYS blurred a little, seem to ring all the way to MIN and don't change much across the scale. I ended setting about 10.

I then used the built in Sony BluRay pattern and found it to be more traditional fuzzy MIN-10, no artifacts from about 10-35 and then definite ringing worsening above 35. I chose 32.

Is there a reason I am having trouble with the DVE pattern (scaling?) and am getting different results from the 2 methods?

Should I just stick with the value from the 1080P BluRau pattern for all inputs and signals?
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post #2112 of 4486 Old 02-06-2008, 10:37 PM
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My settings are from reading the thread here and playing with the adjustments until I found the perfect picture for DISH HD-SAT conected with HDMI. I think this is an excellent for HDTV.

Picture mode-Vivid

Advanced Iris-Auto 2

Picture-79

Brightness-51

Color-55

Hue-G2

Color Temp-Neutral

Sharpness-15

NR-Min

Moiton Enhancer-Standard

Motion Naturalizer-Mode 2

Cinemotion-off

Everything else is turned off.
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post #2113 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 12:02 AM
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hi all. love the forums, long time reader, first time poster.

i looked through this forum a bit (not all 50+ pages) in search of my issue, but i havent seen it mentioned elsewhere, so i thought i would post it here.

im experiencing what i can only describe as some ghosting. a person will move around, and have a slight motion trail. it seems as though it is more noticeable on darker scenes. it doesnt seem to matter what the source is, whether it be bluray from my ps3, hd dvd from my 360 or hd cable. although i would say it is most noticeable on br, presumably because it is my only 24p source.

here are some settings im using:
cinemotion: off
motion enhancer: off
auto iris: medium

i do have the ps3 and tv set to superwhite on and x.v color on.

anyone have any ideas for me?

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post #2114 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 01:46 AM
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Before anyone jumps on the guy -- -- although he is using Vivid, he's CUSTOMIZED it. So, he recognizes it's not true.

But my suggestion is you dump Vivid and try another mode like Standard to customize. I believe Dave Hancock has proven there are some aspects to Vivid that will never be true to standard.

Other than that, my sharpness is up a little higher but a real calibration could tell you for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AA2KK View Post

My settings are from reading the thread here and playing with the adjustments until I found the perfect picture for DISH HD-SAT conected with HDMI. I think this is an excellent for HDTV.

Picture mode-Vivid

Advanced Iris-Auto 2

Picture-79

Brightness-51

Color-55

Hue-G2

Color Temp-Neutral

Sharpness-15

NR-Min

Moiton Enhancer-Standard

Motion Naturalizer-Mode 2

Cinemotion-off

Everything else is turned off.


Your creed may be interesting, but your deeds are much more convincing.
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post #2115 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by RROD View Post

You don't notice it? what about the big pink blob in the middle?

Trouble is, I already took one back and I like what I have, but I want it to have a good pic and I'm afraid that another would be worse.

SO there is no way to get rid of it huh?
There is none according to that NY TIMES reply.
damn

I checked mine out last night. When I turn the color completely to the minimum, there is a VERY SLIGHT tint to the pic. Heck it couldve been the light coming through the window I'm not sure. I really dont think its a major problem relative to all the great things about this TV.
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post #2116 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChazzMatt View Post

Before anyone jumps on the guy -- -- although he is using Vivid, he's CUSTOMIZED it. So, he recognizes it's not true.

But my suggestion is you dump Vivid and try another mode like Standard to customize. I believe Dave Hancock has proven there are some aspects to Vivid that will never be true to standard.

Other than that, my sharpness is up a little higher but a real calibration could tell you for sure.

Why does it matter so much to everyone that the colors on their set be "true", accurate, calibrated colors according to some standard? Is it not what the viewer enjoys viewing on his/her day to day viewing?
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post #2117 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inverno View Post

Why does it matter so much to everyone that the colors on their set be "true", accurate, calibrated colors according to some standard? Is it not what the viewer enjoys viewing on his/her day to day viewing?

Because generally, theres nothing that looks as good, or as "real", as a properly calibrated TV. It might not be as "vivid", but neither is the real world. The funny thing is, you can get so used to the oversharpening and oversaturation etc that when you see the "proper" image, it looks bad to you until youre used to it. But I doubt there's a person in the world that would prefer an uncalibrated set after having had a properly calibrated one for a few days, and seen what a difference it makes.

Telling someone to get out of vivid is not some sort of AV elitist snobbery. Its a genuine attempt to help. :P

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post #2118 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeis11 View Post

hi all. love the forums, long time reader, first time poster.

i looked through this forum a bit (not all 50+ pages) in search of my issue, but i havent seen it mentioned elsewhere, so i thought i would post it here.

im experiencing what i can only describe as some ghosting. a person will move around, and have a slight motion trail. it seems as though it is more noticeable on darker scenes. it doesnt seem to matter what the source is, whether it be bluray from my ps3, hd dvd from my 360 or hd cable. although i would say it is most noticeable on br, presumably because it is my only 24p source.

Try it with a 720p/60 fps source. 1080i is only 30fps. Film is only 24fps. 24fps isn't enough frames per second to get rid of jumpiness when there is medium speed motion on the screen, particularly panning with big contrast between the sky and landscape.

I bet you would see the same issue in a movie theater.

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post #2119 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Because generally, theres nothing that looks as good, or as "real", as a properly calibrated TV. It might not be as "vivid", but neither is the real world. The funny thing is, you can get so used to the oversharpening and oversaturation etc that when you see the "proper" image, it looks bad to you until youre used to it. But I doubt there's a person in the world that would prefer an uncalibrated set after having had a properly calibrated one for a few days, and seen what a difference it makes.

Telling someone to get out of vivid is not some sort of AV elitist snobbery. Its a genuine attempt to help. :P

I understand what you mean. The thing is, and I've posted this before, watching a college bball game or any football game in Vivid mode with a few tweaks is almost exactly like being there. I go to many college football games and pro baseball games so I have a good understanding of what the colors, lighting, and players look like. I dont watch many movies on my TV so maybe that is more of what you mean. As for sports though, vivid mode does very well.
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post #2120 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 05:29 AM
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Speaking of the PS3 and this set, is it indeed Superwhite compatible? What exactly does that add?

Paper
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post #2121 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RROD View Post



ok.. check it out.. this is ok?


Yep. That's what I always see.

My old set was green on the left and magenta on the right.

My new one has a different pattern that is less noticeable.

But I've never seen a true black and white movie yet on this model of set. It always has a color tint to it.

I'm glad this is Sony's farewell set. It will make the choice next time much easier.

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post #2122 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post

Yea, our thread entries got wiped out ! Thanks for your input ! OK, so if it is an overscan problem, is there an adequate correction on this ?

I asked this last year and the answer from this thread was 'no'.

There was a display setting in the menu such as +1 that would shrink the image down so you could see everything. I remember that made the image sharper.

It is of course a process to the image, so you're not seeing all lines.

But.... you're not seeing all lines anyway with a great amount of overscan

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post #2123 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJSloan View Post

Should Sharpness be global or can it be different based on input or resolution?

I tried setting the sharpness off the DVE pattern from my 3930 upscalled to 1080P. The black/grey margins are ALWAYS blurred a little, seem to ring all the way to MIN and don't change much across the scale. I ended setting about 10.

I then used the built in Sony BluRay pattern and found it to be more traditional fuzzy MIN-10, no artifacts from about 10-35 and then definite ringing worsening above 35. I chose 32.

Is there a reason I am having trouble with the DVE pattern (scaling?) and am getting different results from the 2 methods?

Should I just stick with the value from the 1080P BluRau pattern for all inputs and signals?


Each input has it's own settings.


Perhaps put your players on different inputs and adjust for each?

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post #2124 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeis11 View Post

hi all. love the forums, long time reader, first time poster.

i looked through this forum a bit (not all 50+ pages) in search of my issue, but i havent seen it mentioned elsewhere, so i thought i would post it here.

im experiencing what i can only describe as some ghosting. a person will move around, and have a slight motion trail. it seems as though it is more noticeable on darker scenes. it doesnt seem to matter what the source is, whether it be bluray from my ps3, hd dvd from my 360 or hd cable. although i would say it is most noticeable on br, presumably because it is my only 24p source.

here are some settings im using:
cinemotion: off
motion enhancer: off
auto iris: medium

i do have the ps3 and tv set to superwhite on and x.v color on.

anyone have any ideas for me?


Those settings are off for ALL inputs? Also, natural motion off?

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post #2125 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 06:31 AM
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I took my 50-E3000 back because it had a bad fan and got the 55-A3000. After reading everything on here, maybe I shouldve just stuck with the LCD rear projection in the first place. The picture was good on it!
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post #2126 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 07:42 AM
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Pictures taken approx. 8' back, various zoom level, with the last shot zoomed 10x.








Source: "Ratatouille" 1080i
HR21--HDMI-->Onkyo TX-SR705--HDMI-->Sony KDS-50A3000


Settings: Picture Mode - Custom
Advanced Iris - Auto 1
Picture - 82
Brightness - 48
Color - 52
Hue - G1
Color Temp - Warm 2
Sharpness - 37
Noise Reduction - OFF

Black Corrector - OFF
Gamma - MED
Clear White - LOW
Color Space - WIDE
Live Color - LOW
Detail Enhancer - LOW
Edge Enhancer - OFF

Motion Enhancer - STD/HIGH
Motion Naturalizer - OFF
Cinemotion - Auto 1
LL
LL
LL
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post #2127 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 08:02 AM
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I just got a 50a3000 last week. I have noticed while watching sports in hd, that the lines on the court/field seem to flicker or break while the camera moves while following plays (or zooms in or out). It's very noticable and annoying.

I have hd with comcast hooked up with component cables. If I tune to standard def. during the same game the lines look fine. It's only noticable when the lines are white and the camara is not zoomed in. (during close ups it looks fine).

Is this normal or is there a setting to correct this? Thanks for the help.
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post #2128 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papernut View Post

Speaking of the PS3 and this set, is it indeed Superwhite compatible? What exactly does that add?

Superwhite allows the PS3 to pass blacker than black and whiter than white signals. Here is what I recommend for the PS3 and A3000 (these are the ones people always get confused about).

RGB Full/Limited = Limited
Superwhite = On
BD/DVD Output = Auto or YPbPr

If your settings are different and you change them, then you will want to recalibrate.


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post #2129 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by DJSloan View Post

Should Sharpness be global or can it be different based on input or resolution?

It's different for each INPUT.

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I tried setting the sharpness off the DVE pattern from my 3930 upscalled to 1080P. The black/grey margins are ALWAYS blurred a little, seem to ring all the way to MIN and don't change much across the scale. I ended setting about 10.

I then used the built in Sony BluRay pattern and found it to be more traditional fuzzy MIN-10, no artifacts from about 10-35 and then definite ringing worsening above 35. I chose 32.

Is there a reason I am having trouble with the DVE pattern (scaling?) and am getting different results from the 2 methods?

I suspect that the reason is that apparently the DVE that you used is SD. The ringing that you were seeing there was likely generated in the DVD player in the upconversion process.

Quote:


Should I just stick with the value from the 1080P BluRau pattern for all inputs and signals?

No, each source will likely need a different setting. There are lots of normal images that can be used for this adjustment. The best would be text on a medium background. Remember, it is sharp transitions that evoke this ringing.

Dave Hancock
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post #2130 of 4486 Old 02-07-2008, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by lifeis11 View Post

hi all. love the forums, long time reader, first time poster.
i looked through this forum a bit (not all 50+ pages) in search of my issue, but i havent seen it mentioned elsewhere, so i thought i would post it here.

im experiencing what i can only describe as some ghosting. a person will move around, and have a slight motion trail. it seems as though it is more noticeable on darker scenes. it doesnt seem to matter what the source is, whether it be bluray from my ps3, hd dvd from my 360 or hd cable. although i would say it is most noticeable on br, presumably because it is my only 24p source.
anyone have any ideas for me?

Yea, I have an idea...I had this and solved it only after a process of elimination, and you should do the same...eliminate each component as a problem. I ENDED UP SOLVING THE PROBLEM...IT WAS A BAD HDMI CABLE THAT CAUSED MY SHADOW DELAY (series of about three white lines following someone's head when they move???) Interestingly enough, it was NOT my cheaper HDMI...it was the $85 Monster HDMI. I replaced it successfully with a FREEBIE HDMI that CAME with my Directv satellite receiver for free ! It works just fine. So swap out your HDMI for another one, and since you asked for advice, you are obligated to report back with results, as that helps not only you, but others with similar problems. Go do it !
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