2008 Samsung DLP's Discussion (HLxxA650/A750) - Page 118 - AVS Forum
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post #3511 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 01:11 PM
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I've been considering purchasing the 67" replacement of the 61" from Amazon, but as of 6/1, New York state imposes mandatory collection of Internet sales from companies that have "affiliates" within the state. This hits Amazon, which now has to charge tax. One more step in the direction of sales tax being added to all Internet purchases. How many more ways will big gov find a way to pinch the consumer?
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post #3512 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 01:28 PM
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Uhh, no matter how many times its said, geometry/focus issues are not just from the cabinet. Guaranteed. Why don't we revisit this discussion in a month and see if NO 67" owners have any geometry or focus issues? I'd bet money on that one that it won't happen. I won't put money on it, but you also most likely won't see a 67" for less than 2k from B&M before at least Black Friday, if then.

Of course, maybe Teknomedic's experience already verifies the geometry focus thing. If the case is movable like he describes, it isn't even as sturdy as my original HLM. Of course, this is a good and bad thing as he describes. I've done the same on my 61" and adjusted my slight issues so they are even less measurable.

Matt
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post #3513 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sealth60 View Post

I need to fit an HL61A750 on a piece of furniture that my wife is near and dear to.
The set would extend 4 inches beyond the top height of the opening. I am curious if the top of the set is narrower depth than the bottom.
The bottom shelf is 16 inches thick so the 14 inch depth would be ok if it is less than 8 inches deep at the top of the TV.
I hope I am making sense.

At the very top of this set, the depth is 3". At around 6" down from the top of the set, the depth is approx 7". Hope this helps.

When in doubt, do the right thing.
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post #3514 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sgooter View Post

At the very top of this set, the depth is 3". At around 6" down from the top of the set, the depth is approx 7". Hope this helps.

Should fit almost perfectly then. Thanks.
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post #3515 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

Uhh, no matter how many times its said, geometry/focus issues are not just from the cabinet. Guaranteed. Why don't we revisit this discussion in a month and see if NO 67" owners have any geometry or focus issues? I'd bet money on that one that it won't happen. I won't put money on it, but you also most likely won't see a 67" for less than 2k from B&M before at least Black Friday, if then.

Of course, maybe Teknomedic's experience already verifies the geometry focus thing. If the case is movable like he describes, it isn't even as sturdy as my original HLM. Of course, this is a good and bad thing as he describes. I've done the same on my 61" and adjusted my slight issues so they are even less measurable.


What I'd like is another 67" owner to test if they can do the "frame twist" I'm able to do... if everyone can do it then I'll keep the set... but if very few others or nearly no other can do it I may consider returning the set... although again, I'm unsure I'd do that since I can correct 99% of my "tilt/geo" issue by doing it. Tough call.

Let me just say that my 67" is still MUCH better than the 61" I had... it's hard to put into perspective, but if my 61" was 85%-90% perfect... the 67" is 94%-98% perfect. ((so far anyway from my limited testing)).

I have DVE HD-DVD but haven't tested yet (not enough time in the day)... but from some quick looks I don't see any focus or "convergence" issues like my 61" had.

I'll be able to test with DVE in around 14-16 hours and report more on other slight Geo and focus issues. (if any)

Lastly, if people aren't ready to "believe me" about the frame twist/tilt "feature" of my set... I'll be happy to recode a clip and do a utube or something (never done that before, but should be interesting).

well... off to work, I'll of course follow the thread as much as I can there... if there are any questions or requests I'll do what I can to answer or test as I can.

TK
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post #3516 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknomedic View Post

What I'd like is another 67" owner to test if they can do the "frame twist" I'm able to do... if everyone can do it then I'll keep the set... but if very few others or nearly no other can do it I may consider returning the set... although again, I'm unsure I'd do that since I can correct 99% of my "tilt/geo" issue by doing it. Tough call.

Let me just say that my 67" is still MUCH better than the 61" I had... it's hard to put into perspective, but if my 61" was 85%-90% perfect... the 67" is 94%-98% perfect. ((so far anyway from my limited testing)).

I have DVE HD-DVD but haven't tested yet (not enough time in the day)... but from some quick looks I don't see any focus or "convergence" issues like my 61" had.

I'll be able to test with DVE in around 14-16 hours and report more on other slight Geo and focus issues. (if any)

Lastly, if people aren't ready to "believe me" about the frame twist/tilt "feature" of my set... I'll be happy to recode a clip and do a utube or something (never done that before, but should be interesting).

well... off to work, I'll of course follow the thread as much as I can there... if there are any questions or requests I'll do what I can to answer or test as I can.

i would like to see if any 67" owners are experiencing the same reflection on the top portion of the set when viewing a 2.35:1 aspect ratio that our 61A750 LEDs are experiencing...???
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post #3517 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wopino View Post

i would like to see if any 67" owners are experiencing the same reflection on the top portion of the set when viewing a 2.35:1 aspect ratio that our 61A750 LEDs are experiencing...???


Unless you're looking for confirmation beyond me... my 67" does this as well. Listed this in my quick info post on the previous page.

TK
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post #3518 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Bslisarius View Post

Directbuy is a horrible scam and Tomanik should be banned...

Who is Tomanik and why should he be banned?

Or just spare us the hit-and-run posts.

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post #3519 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 06:42 PM
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Caveats: (a) I have the 600 series. The menus are not exactly like the 700 series but the basic calibration process should be close. (b) I am not an expert -- just spent too much time over the last couple of years playing in the service menu of an HL-R and a couple of weeks in an A650. (c) Use at your own risk!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstrasz View Post

1.) The first thing I'm trying to figure out is what settings I should be using on my tv before going into the service menu.

Setting prior to service menu do not matter due to the user menu reset on entering the service menu. When in the service menu, you are essentially calibrating for Dynamic mode with picture mode = Cool1. (I believe using Expert mode there is a way to directly calibrate Movie mode while in the service menu but I have not tested that yet.) Calibrate as much as possible in the service menu (taking measurement in the service menu) and then tweak using the user menus while taking measurement outside the service menu.

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2.) The second thing is, I've noticed going into the service menu completely voids the settings altogether that are on the TV, since it seems like the service menu runs independent. Is there a way around this? I ask because of the next question...

Not really. However there are some tricks to make life easier, such as when setting the gamut in the CCA menu, set all of the picture mode parameters to the xy-coordinates that give D65 for Cool1. This way, all of the picture modes will have the same white points regardless of the setting in the user menu.

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3.) I'm supposed to initially adjust my contrast and brightness. I figure since the settings reset in the service menu, that adjustment of contrast and brightness is done through sub_contrast and sub_brightness on the WB menu? What I'm trying to do is make my contrast of 80 and darkness of 50 be at the contrast/brightness levels in the service menu but I can't figure out a way to do this as going out of the service menu and starting up the tv brings me back to the default out of the box settings of contrast 100 brightness 45. I'd like to have some wiggle room in the main menus to increase the contrast if need be over the years.

The default User values for Dynamic mode contrast and brightness can not be changed (as best I can determine). So, you can not set the contrast and brightness and have it represent 80 and 50 in the User Menu. However, I believe you can set the default user menu for contrast and brightness for the Standard Mode. (Have not tested this yet either. See menu EPA Standard.) This can be useful because you can set contrast and brightness in the service menu for dynamic mode with its default values. Go to Standard mode in the user menu, and set contrast and brightness for that mode using the user menu. (This might not need any adjustment because the same contrast and brightness values in the service menu apply to both Dynamic and Standard mode.) Note the values for contrast and brightness in the User mneu. Go back to the EPA Standard menu in the service menu and set the pertinent values to the just determine user values. Now, default mode for standard menu will have the correct values.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstrasz View Post

4.) I'm supposed to adjust my red and blue levels at IRE 80 then 30, and try to take care of the in between and low end IRE values. I'm trying to get the RGB values to be as close to the 100% mark as possible. To make sure, these are the R/B values that I adjust under sub_brightness for low IRE and sub_contrast for high IRE? The problem i'm running into is without adjusting the green value, I have a hell of a time getting the red high enough near 100%. I've only been able to stablize all three colors modifying the green since the green for my set out of the box is at 110%. But modifying the green seems to lower my contrast throughout the IRE spectrum.

I am not fimilliar with the grey scale procedure you are using where in green is not adjusted. When we see "brightness" (not the technical color science term), it is most impacted by the color green. So, it is not unusual that lower green decreases the apparent "brightness" of the grey scale. This is an iteritative process. After you change something, you need to go back and check everything again. Another trick I have found to be useful: If you do not know the limiting color of your display, it is usually better to lower the higher colors to the lower colors rather than trying to raise the lower colors.

This stuff can be very confusing and specific directions are not available. Even the experts resort to trial and error. I strongly suggest you take a look at Tom Huffman's thread in the Calibration threads, if you have not done so already. If you want to really get into calibrating this beast, you might also want to start a separate thread over in the Calibration area where there is more interest and a lot more assistance with this sort of thing.

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post #3520 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 06:50 PM
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Well, I've read every post in this thread over the last few weeks and finally made my purchase today. BB has the 67A750 in their warehouses, but not yet in their stores here. Price today was $2299. I used the 12% coupon, 3 yrs no interest, 60 day price match, 30 day return. Walked out at $2190 after tax. They would not allow me to do the $100 off PS3 with the 12% coupon. The salesman did confirm that they would price match reputable online stores. CC said no online price matching, which is why I went with BB. I pick up my TV on 5/29 and can't wait. Thanks to everyone who has posted, especially mike_pro!
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post #3521 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donb1948 View Post

Caveats: (a) I have the 600 series. The menus are not exactly like the 700 series but the basic calibration process should be close. (b) I am not an expert -- just spent too much time over the last couple of years playing in the service menu of an HL-R and a couple of weeks in an A650. (c) Use at your own risk!!Setting prior to service menu do not matter due to the user menu reset on entering the service menu. When in the service menu, you are essentially calibrating for Dynamic mode with picture mode = Cool1. (I believe using Expert mode there is a way to directly calibrate Movie mode while in the service menu but I have not tested that yet.) Calibrate as much as possible in the service menu (taking measurement in the service menu) and then tweak using the user menus while taking measurement outside the service menu.

Thanks a ton for your help. To start with, i'm a complete novice when it comes to this stuff. I'm referencing the grayscale for dummies tutorial that was posted in the Calibration thread. So essentially, the tweaks I'm doing in service menu are being applied to the Dynamic mode and updating colors for Cool 1? Good to know. I had wondered which one it as modifying (standard, dynamic or movie). I'm fine with it setting that - just means I keep it on dynamic and cool 1 to get my tweaked settings?

The tutorial I was referencing on there recommended not tweaking the green values since that's typically the reference level. However, that was the only way I got accurate RGB values across the IRE. The difference was huge when I saw it - the only issue I had was that my overall light output was lower with my grayscale being updated (likely from lowering the green values). What's the best way to get this back up? Keep iterating and tweaking the sub contrast in the service menu, and continually re-adjust the RGB values until I find a good balance? Out of the box my light output was in the 30-40 range (around 35) but after calibration it dropped down to 25. My understanding is for DLP's 30-40 is optimal.

One other question I had was what IRE ranges should I reference for tweaking the RGB LowEnd? I've been assuming anything that is IRE 50 or lower with the above being used for RGB HighEnd
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post #3522 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 07:28 PM
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Anyone else find it strange that Samsung lists the price of the HL72A650 as $2299.99, yet most reputable retailers have it at $2999.99. I guess since it is pre-release, they are going off what little info they had, probably that Sammie was initially going to start it at $2999.99, but maybe Samsung changed and everyone has not adjusted yet?

I hope that is the case, a 72" tv at under $2300 is great.
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post #3523 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 08:00 PM
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I just came back from costco and they had the 67" for $2499 with the free samsung stand and the extra 2 year warranty here in winnipeg.
If costco took real credit cards I would have bought it today but only accepting american express or debit is kind of a pain.

O well I have anopther line on a better deal but if it doesn't pan out to costco I shall go!!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #3524 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STR3T View Post

CEB II, I couldn't disagree you more. I too went from HLN567W to an 61A750. I too have 5 years of viewing under the old lamp model. My lamp is still going at 10k hours, but I had to replace (under warranty fortunately) the light engine twice.

Aside from that, i was concerned going from lamp to LED due to large windows where this set resides. It's a non-issue. The LED is plenty bright. LOST episodes have never looked so crisp, colorful and "wow" than what I first felt moving to the original 56". Blue Ray via PS3 is awesome, altho I've got limited # of viewings thru BD.

I got 6" more diagonal (you'd get 11" more!), slimmer, less lbs, no lamp, 3 HDMI's, 3D, less noise, less power consumption, etc. etc. for 1/2 the price of the HLN. Unless you think you're going to be moving this set around frequently, the frame is minimal issue.

Guys, you simply can't walk into BB and/or CC and assume you are seeing what these sets are capable of doing. You can't. Take one home under "buy it, try it". I bet you keep it. I dare ya'.

I'll look at some more Series 7s as they start being displayed in stores to evaluate picture brightness and pop versus other DLPs, but this was a never resolved issue with all of Sammy's last year LED DLPs. Also, you really can't do much to the viewing angle with tuning and the Series 7 viewing angle is clearly inferior to Series 6 and is more on a par with an "average" LCD (that's not a good thing).

We're a month and a half short of 5 years with our HLN507W (about 17,000 hours at this time) and we've never needed work on a light engine. Had two color wheels replaced because of the noise issue, but the current one was Sammy's ungraded design and hasn't been a problem for over 10,000 hours. Our other two repair problems have been the solid state video boards, HD and SD, which have nothing to do with the light engine/mirror technology. The HD board malfunctioned at about 7,000 hours and the SD board started malfunctioning this spring.

I don't need the size, 50' to 56" is ideal for my needs, so 61" is more a burden than a plus. The slimmer and lighter aspect I like, plus I'd love to get away from the fan noise, although I hear that the Series 6 fans are almost inaudible. I do need to move the set around to accommodate guests, when we have them, so the flimsy frames on apparently all the Sammy DLPs is a big concern. For now we continue to look at 52" LCDs. We like Sammy's here also, but glossy screens on the best of them is a real problem for our family room.
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post #3525 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstrasz View Post

The tutorial I was referencing on there recommended not tweaking the green values since that's typically the reference level. However, that was the only way I got accurate RGB values across the IRE. The difference was huge when I saw it - the only issue I had was that my overall light output was lower with my grayscale being updated (likely from lowering the green values). What's the best way to get this back up? Keep iterating and tweaking the sub contrast in the service menu, and continually re-adjust the RGB values until I find a good balance? Out of the box my light output was in the 30-40 range (around 35) but after calibration it dropped down to 25. My understanding is for DLP's 30-40 is optimal.

"Green is reference" is probably not as important as it once was. The reason green was the reference was that in some displays, green was the limiting color. If you started raising the output of each of the colors, green run out first. In other displays, adjustment of green was not allowe4d (i.e., it was preset.). Thus, you would set green at a point where you knew it was not limited (or at the preset) and varied only red and blue. Anyway, back to the question about raising the over all light output... The answer is to simply use the contrast (sub-contrast) parameter and keep iterating as you have stated. Remember, the brightness and contrast controls theoretically change the output for all three colors together and the offset and gain controls change the individual colors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstrasz View Post

One other question I had was what IRE ranges should I reference for tweaking the RGB LowEnd? I've been assuming anything that is IRE 50 or lower with the above being used for RGB HighEnd

I'm not sure I understand the question but here's a go at it... Typically, for a two point grayscale calibration, 80 or 90 (high end) and 20 (low end) IRE targets are used to get things in the ball park. The offset (low end) and gain (high end) controls are not perfect; there is some overlap between high and low. So after you get the 20 IRE target done, look at the low end (generally, 10 to 40 or 50) and see if tweaking the offset can give a better overall grayscale as opposed to having 20 IRE dead on and the rest all over te map. Do the same to tweak the high end. This can be very tedious, particularly because the controls are not linear and specific color controls impact more than the indicated color.

I believe Tom's thread is the best for introduction to CMS systems and calibration in general. He provides step-by-step procedures and some alternatives to common ways of getting things done: Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS (updated and enhanced) (All of essential stuff is in the first post.)

Hope this helps.

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post #3526 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknomedic View Post

Unless you're looking for confirmation beyond me... my 67" does this as well. Listed this in my quick info post on the previous page.

sorry i missed ur post...i wonder what is causing it...hmmmmmm its weird my HLT5687S never had this problem...must be the new light engines
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post #3527 of 5060 Old 05-25-2008, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gomerboat View Post

Well, I've read every post in this thread over the last few weeks and finally made my purchase today. BB has the 67A750 in their warehouses, but not yet in their stores here. Price today was $2299. I used the 12% coupon, 3 yrs no interest, 60 day price match, 30 day return. Walked out at $2190 after tax. They would not allow me to do the $100 off PS3 with the 12% coupon. The salesman did confirm that they would price match reputable online stores. CC said no online price matching, which is why I went with BB. I pick up my TV on 5/29 and can't wait. Thanks to everyone who has posted, especially mike_pro!

Good deal! $2032.12 + tax from BB with a 60-day price guarantee. Now we're talking.
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post #3528 of 5060 Old 05-26-2008, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gomerboat View Post

...BB has the 67A750 in their warehouses, but not yet in their stores here. Price today was $2299. I used the 12% coupon, 3 yrs no interest, 60 day price match, 30 day return. Walked out at $2190 after tax...

Nice deal! In my experience the BB sales staff occasionally error in applying these multi-discount coupons correctly, so check your sales receipt to ensure you received a 12% discount versus 10%.

When in doubt, do the right thing.
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post #3529 of 5060 Old 05-26-2008, 04:37 AM
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Nice deal! In my experience the BB sales staff occasionally error in applying these multi-discount coupons correctly, so check your sales receipt to ensure you received a 12% discount versus 10%.

Believe me, I checked!
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post #3530 of 5060 Old 05-26-2008, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gomerboat View Post

Price today was $2299. I used the 12% coupon, 3 yrs no interest, 60 day price match, 30 day return. Walked out at $2190 after tax.

To get the 3 yrs no interest did you have to get them to install it. Because I asked about getting the no interest deal and they said I had to get the geek squad installation.
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post #3531 of 5060 Old 05-26-2008, 06:09 AM
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where can these 12% coupons for BB be found?
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post #3532 of 5060 Old 05-26-2008, 06:10 AM
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The coupons came through the mail
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post #3533 of 5060 Old 05-26-2008, 06:16 AM
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These are for the HL61A750

us-appliance.com (not able to post URL yet)

Big river listing it at 1,650 plus change
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post #3534 of 5060 Old 05-26-2008, 06:47 AM
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Sears has the new 67" model for $2249.99 minus 10% rebate for using your Sears card. The after-rebate cost would be $2025 plus tax. Home delivery is $65.00.
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post #3535 of 5060 Old 05-26-2008, 06:50 AM
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this may have already been answered but can someone explain what the differentiating factor is between the a750 and a650 ?

what does the 650 lack that the 750 has? i'm wondering what i lose in features by going the 72 instead of the 67.
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post #3536 of 5060 Old 05-26-2008, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by farzad View Post

this may have already been answered but can someone explain what the differentiating factor is between the a750 and a650 ?

what does the 650 lack that the 750 has? i'm wondering what i lose in features by going the 72 instead of the 67.

I don't know what else, but the main the diff is the A650 still uses a lamp + color wheel (and will have all the related issues because of that). The A750 series uses their 2nd gen LED light engine instead -- seems significantly better than 1st gen from last year though I guess not *all* issues are completely resolved.

_Man_
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post #3537 of 5060 Old 05-26-2008, 07:19 AM
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ahh i didnt realize the 72's used the wheel still. i assumed they were all LED - thank you for the education.
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post #3538 of 5060 Old 05-26-2008, 07:26 AM
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I'm so close to getting a HL67A750. The only issue for me is whether it uses the TI Dark Chip 3 instead of 4 which it sounds like is the case. So my alternate choice is the Mitsubishi WD-65736 or WD-73736 which uses the DC4 but has a bulb instead of LED.

My question is, which is more important: having the TI Dark Chip 4 or having LED instead of Bulb?
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post #3539 of 5060 Old 05-26-2008, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Badfinger_Fan View Post

Sears has the new 67" model for $2249.99 minus 10% rebate for using your Sears card. The after-rebate cost would be $2025 plus tax. Home delivery is $65.00.

This seems to be a good deal. Anyone bought from Sears? How are they to deal with, vis-a-vis delivery/repairs/returns? Is this $65 delivery of a white-glove type, or just a drop-off?

I checked their website. Protection plans seem a little pricey, but I don't mind paying for reliability and hassle-free dealings. Is it necessary to go for the "video installation" fee in order for them to just take it out of the box and place it on the stand? That would be a rip-off, as I don't need any help connecting the set. The 10% off with Sears card is nice, though. But hate the idea of sales tax.

Guess I should take a ride to my neighborhood Sears and ask a sales rep, although I don't anticipate anyone's being extremely knowledgeable (from past experience), but then I've never bought a big ticket, electronics item from them before.
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post #3540 of 5060 Old 05-26-2008, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Raziel91 View Post

To get the 3 yrs no interest did you have to get them to install it. Because I asked about getting the no interest deal and they said I had to get the geek squad installation.

No, they don't have to install it. I'm picking mine up myself on Thurs.


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Originally Posted by farzad View Post

where can these 12% coupons for BB be found?

I don't know if I can post links yet, but search for Best Buy on slickdeals .net and you'll find it. I think the coupon ends today.
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