2008 Samsung DLP's Discussion (HLxxA650/A750) - Page 58 - AVS Forum
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post #1711 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhferry View Post

What I mean is under the Dynamic setting, Contrast is turned up to 100%. That in combination with DNIe crushes the blacks.


I think there is a mixup here, as there is a setting called "dynamic contrast" under the more details part. This is what I thought you were referring to originally (and the other poster I believe).

Yes, with the "dynamic" mode setting, contrast is pumped up and blacks are crushed. The only reason why I can think this mode exists is for the tv to jump at someone on a showroom
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post #1712 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

I'm not real sure this is really the same thing others are experiencing. I know the videos are a little rough, these are my first YouTube uploads.

I have not been able to get "black screen" or power cycle issues (or "tearing") on my 1080p HTPC source. I think I only had the actual power cycle issue once, in fact it never came back on so it was a power down issue.

My next step will be to try different cables on the 360.

On the video of the Viva Pinata Party Animals startup, you can see the "info" screen with the res pop up a few times. All the tearing and blackout are what actually happened (not encoding error). The lack of focus in some areas is my fault.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wXQkbc1JGg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mc2mj--xn0

thanks for taking the time to do this. great work.

I don't have a lot of post here, but I've been following this whole thread heavily (along with the LaserVue). I'm in need of a 65-67" and one of these will be my new set.
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post #1713 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

turls,

On the first link, what is connected to the TV, which port is used, and what signal are you sending? (What? XBox, video game?) (Port: Component 1?) (Sending: 1080p ?)

Same question on the second link?

Doe you have a regular Blu Ray player? If so, what port, and what signal, and does it have the same problem as above?

EDIT: I had a sentence in the wrong place, its corrected.

Maybe I wasn't clear. Its an Xbox 360, no HDMI option, component only, connected to Component 1, and those videos are when the device is set at 1080p. One video is just the dashboard, the other is the opening sequence of Viva Pinata Party Animals. AFAIK this game supports 1080p.

I don't have any PS3 or BluRay player. The only other 1080p source I have is a HTPC, which has an nVidia card connected to through DVI-HDMI to HDMI port 3, set up for a PC connection. I've watched upconverted DVDs and Netflix WatchNow video and have not been able to generate anything goofy yet.

Trying a different set of cables probably isn't going to be an option after all, because this is all one piece that is proprietary Xbox 360.

I think Samsung just needs to make it work. I have in the past been able to get it to do the black screen on the menus as well, but I also have never seen the level of tearing on that video until they added the Aerosmith GH blade. I think the black is causing it fits. I tried changing the settings on the TV and nothing made any difference. Going 1080i works like a charm.

Matt
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post #1714 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

I'm not real sure this is really the same thing others are experiencing. I know the videos are a little rough, these are my first YouTube uploads.

I have not been able to get "black screen" or power cycle issues (or "tearing") on my 1080p HTPC source. I think I only had the actual power cycle issue once, in fact it never came back on so it was a power down issue.

My next step will be to try different cables on the 360.

On the video of the Viva Pinata Party Animals startup, you can see the "info" screen with the res pop up a few times. All the tearing and blackout are what actually happened (not encoding error). The lack of focus in some areas is my fault.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wXQkbc1JGg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mc2mj--xn0


Nice work.
61A750 connected at HDMI port 1 via hdmi1.3 to Onkyo 705. DISH222 receiver connected to Onkyo via HDMI1.3. After viewing DISH HD source at 1080i for 4hr15min, I experienced the first "Black Screen". In the following 35 minutes, I experienced 6 more black screens. The black screen events looked just like Turls' Viva Pinata hits.
I do not think that the TV powered down. I never received any audible or visual cues that power to the TV was interrupted. Perhaps we should use a different term to avoid confusion.
The DISH 222 is garbage, but still, my events looked just like Turls"
I have switched to the 61A750 HDMI port2 and will subject it to more "dynamic" Masters coverage today.
Viva Pinata Party Animals? Nice.

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post #1715 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finsmaniac02 View Post

Yes, with the "dynamic" mode setting, contrast is pumped up and blacks are crushed. The only reason why I can think this mode exists is for the tv to jump at someone on a showroom

Again I haven't really calibrated my set yet so I can't say for sure. But if in fact Dynamic Contrast adjusts the iris (based on the image's content) I don't believe by nature it "crushes blacks" It may seem that way by simply going through the various Dynamic Contrast settings.

However you would need to calibrate all of the other settings each time you changed the Dynamic Contrast setting to obtain proper black and white levels. It takes more work but this is the case on all of the front projectors I have used in and should be the same here.

Now if the set can't be adjusted accordingly it goes back to my earlier comment that it must be breaking the rules. If you use the test patterns I linked to one image displays 0 IRE to 100 IRE by tens which would be the perfect image for adjusting black level.

If after adjusting Brightness for each Dynamic Contrast setting and you still can't see 10 IRE (or 20 IRE as some displays simply can't display 10 IRE using this image) then it would be crushing blacks. Has anyone done such calibrating yet? If so what were the results.
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post #1716 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank_P View Post

thanks for taking the time to do this. great work.

I don't have a lot of post here, but I've been following this whole thread heavily (along with the LaserVue). I'm in need of a 65-67" and one of these will be my new set.

Thansk turls, that makes more sense to me. I am not a game player, so have no experience in that area.

I am still look to those that may have just a regular box Blu-Ray via HDMI that would have the same problem, and if they do or do not, is the box puttin out 1080i or 1080p.
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post #1717 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Again I haven't really calibrated my set yet so I can't say for sure. But if in fact Dynamic Contrast adjusts the iris (based on the image's content) I don't believe by nature it "crushes blacks" It may seem that way by simply going through the various Dynamic Contrast settings.

However you would need to calibrate all of the other settings each time you changed the Dynamic Contrast setting to obtain proper black and white levels. It takes more work but this is the case on all of the front projectors I have used in and should be the same here.

Now if the set can't be adjusted accordingly it goes back to my earlier comment that it must be breaking the rules. If you use the test patterns I linked to one image displays 0 IRE to 100 IRE by tens which would be the perfect image for adjusting black level.

If after adjusting Brightness for each Dynamic Contrast setting and you still can't see 10 IRE (or 20 IRE as some displays simply can't display 10 IRE using this image) then it would be crushing blacks. Has anyone done such calibrating yet? If so what were the results.


I believe the previous poster was not referring to "dynamic contrast", he was referring to the "dynamic" picture setting (you know like "normal", "movie", "dynamic"). I was just confirming his belief on that. I agree with you, the "dynamic contrast" feature is definitely something different that I have not messed around with too much yet.
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post #1718 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 06:59 AM
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Wondering if the LED in the HL-T6187s is teh same as the new hl61a750. I believe that the marketing stuff says the newer set's LED will last longer - I am just wondering if it is actually the same part with different marketing jargon. They are both made by Phlatlight.... CUrious. Saw no difference between the hl-t6187 and the hl61A750, did not know that one was a new model, bought the 6187 and am happy with it.

Dan M
"If you don;t know where you're going, any road will take you there." G. Harrison.
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post #1719 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finsmaniac02 View Post

I believe the previous poster was not referring to "dynamic contrast", he was referring to the "dynamic" picture setting (you know like "normal", "movie", "dynamic"). I was just confirming his belief on that. I agree with you, the "dynamic contrast" feature is definitely something different that I have not messed around with too much yet.

I'm sorry if I was confusing the two... and I agree the Dynamic mode (using its defaults) is worthless. I believe each mode simply stores a value of all of the settings which then can be adjusted. It's just one of several million possibilities.
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post #1720 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PATSY View Post

I do not think that the TV powered down. I never received any audible or visual cues that power to the TV was interrupted. Perhaps we should use a different term to avoid confusion.

I've experienced both "power down" and "black screen". I have not experience "power cycle". I think those are the 3 things that people are discussing here, all different.

Quote:


Viva Pinata Party Animals? Nice.

My wife and son love Viva Pinata. I like to watch it more than play it. The party games in this newer one are stupid fun.

Matt
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post #1721 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I understand you have the XBox set to 1080p but what resolution is the source material? If it's not 1080p remember the XBox has to scale the image before it's sent to the set and its scaling may cause some issues. To verify it's not the source material or XBox itself have you tried viewing the same content on another 1080p display?

According to gamespot the game only supports up to 1080i...
http://www.gamespot.com/ds/strategy/...tech_info.html

I would think the system blades are 1080p, otherwise when you switch resolutions you wouldn't have a true test when they make you confirm the resolution change. And I'm not sure I trust Gamespot's resolution claim, the back of the box says 1080p. I've had it happen on other games too, but I haven't played anything too hard core lately. I've got a ton of games, is there a good 1080p game to try? Is Gears of War 1080p? I know Halo 3 cheats. Other potentially high end graphical games I have are Lost Planet, maybe some arcade games, not sure what else since Gamespot just nuked my game list.

Sorry, I don't have another 1080p display with component inputs lying around and don't know anybody with one, most people I know still have tube TVs.

Matt
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post #1722 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

I would think the system blades are 1080p, otherwise when you switch resolutions you wouldn't have a true test when they make you confirm the resolution change. And I'm not sure I trust Gamespot's resolution claim, the back of the box says 1080p.

I believe I was linking to the first game (not the Party Animal version) so it probably is 1080p. My only point was just because the XBox is outputting 1080p it doesn't mean the source material is 1080p and as such the XBox has to scale the content which can cause artifacts, tearing, and other issues.

One advantage of Blu-ray set to 1080p/24 is that it is simply outputting what's on the disc so if you see an issue it's either in the actual content or the result of the display. The source device is removed from the chain.

Also I don't see any difference (to how the display processes the image) between 480i, 720p, or 1080i being upscaled by the source device and outputted at 1080p. The display shouldn't know the difference... all it receives is an 1080p image. So if the display is doing something "funny" it should be going it to all resolutions scaled to 1080p and native 1080p by the source.

There does seem to be three different issues being reported and it's hard not to get them combined...

1. Power reset - I have had one during a Blu-ray movie set to 1080p/24.
2. Power going off.
3. Screen blanking or other image issues - if the set redisplays the resolution it means it had lost the signal... who's at fault is open to debate.

Perhaps we could use a Poll to see many cases there has been of each?
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post #1723 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Perhaps we could use a Poll to see many cases there has been of each?

I'm all for that if Samsung doesn't come through with some kind of statement in the next few days.

Matt
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post #1724 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 09:46 AM
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Excuse me for the newbie question but I want some reassurance on this. If I get the 61A750 series I will NOT need to get the bulb replacement with a warranty? Is there a bulb in this Television? Thanks for any replys in advance.
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post #1725 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 09:50 AM
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OK... my final questions.... any thoughts on Samsung LCD LN52A650 vs LED DLP HL61A750??

I'm leaning towards the DLP and really hoping the reset issues can be fixed via firmware.

I do have more questions if any of you are kind enough to read:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1018236

thanks for the final info... I'll be getting one of these TVs in the next day or so once I get some more info.

TK.

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post #1726 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbassett View Post

Excuse me for the newbie question but I want some reassurance on this. If I get the 61A750 series I will NOT need to get the bulb replacement with a warranty? Is there a bulb in this Television? Thanks for any replys in advance.

No bulb, it's LED......
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post #1727 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbassett View Post

Excuse me for the newbie question but I want some reassurance on this. If I get the 61A750 series I will NOT need to get the bulb replacement with a warranty? Is there a bulb in this Television? Thanks for any replys in advance.

no bulbs in this TV, it's LED.
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post #1728 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

There does seem to be three different issues being reported and it's hard not to get them combined...

1. Power reset - I have had one during a Blu-ray movie set to 1080p/24.
2. Power going off.
3. Screen blanking or other image issues - if the set redisplays the resolution it means it had lost the signal... who's at fault is open to debate.

Perhaps we could use a Poll to see many cases there has been of each?

That's not a bad idea. Perhaps a separate thread as another poster mentioned where we could possibly include full model #, revision (I happen to have Rev 01), and any other set information that may help troubleshoot the issue.

When I refer to the power cycling issue I have been having...

The picture would go blank and simultaneously I could hear the chime the set makes when it is being turned off (coming from the TV - audio output is sent thru a receiver) - just as if I was turning off the TV via the power button. The first LED light from the right of the set (part of the three indicator lights) would blink on and off and the picture would be restored within a few seconds. If I remember correctly, this light, when in a blinking state, indicates the set will turn on in "15 seconds" or so. I don't ever recall hearing the power up chime in any case. This has happened three times w/ Blu-Ray playback (PS3), 1920 x 1080 @ 24Hz.

I assume this is similar to others who are having "power cycling" issues?

turls, do you notice any of the indicator lights blinking when you run your XBox tests?
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post #1729 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 11:09 AM
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This stuff is hard to capture in a separate thread/poll. I recommend someone create a google spreadsheet to track these items, as they did over in the 650 LCD thread. Way better way to do it.

The user created a Form for users to fill out that fed the data into spreadsheet so people could see all of the results. The nice thing about the form is you can enforce what data needs to be entered so you can make sure that you get complete, relevant, detailed information. Very easy to do with Google Docs.


See the spreadsheet they used here. (Has links to the results, and the entry form, but I see that the form is not live anymore now that the firmware update has been made. But you can get the idea):
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...Dwfab-Cw&hl=en
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post #1730 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD44 View Post

turls, do you notice any of the indicator lights blinking when you run your XBox tests?

I don't remember seeing any, and I think they would have shown up on the videos if there were any.

I have the chime turned off on mine. Maybe I need to turn it back on, but I'm almost positive this is too quick to be a power cycle.

Matt
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post #1731 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 11:23 AM
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I'm a little torn on what to do. If it is indeed true the 650 bulb model is brighter and nicer than the 750 led (and don't they use the same power consumption of 240 watts?), I might just get the 61a650. The bulb has to be replaced, what, every 4 years? The bulbs are now about $150 a piece, which is half the cost of what they used to be.

However, ebay and online store vendors for the 61a650 are scarce. Because there are more vendors for the 61a750, I can get that at the cheaper price. I thought the bulb models were supposed to be cheaper.
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post #1732 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 11:41 AM
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Made a google spreadsheet if peeps would like to track their problems. Check out the form here:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewf...bJRjO3FVLpz9bw

And view the results here:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...bJRjO3FVLpz9bw

Let me know if this is helpful or I missed anything, as I don't even have one of these sets (yet).
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post #1733 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 11:58 AM
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Whew, long thread!

A couple of questions for those familiar with the HL61A750 model:

1. I'm looking to replace my 55" Mitsu RP HDTV with at least a 60" HDTV. For the value, is LED DLP my best bet? I also own a 50" Samsung plasma (720p) and the PQ still blows me away. Will I be disappointed going from plasma to DLP? And yes, I know that the cost of a 60" 1080p plasma is astronomical.

2. I own a Canon HV20 HD video camera that can record and playback at 24p. Does the HL61A750 display true 24p?

3. Best Buy currently has this set for $2,299. Any better deals out there currently?

I'm looking to make a purchase this weekend, so any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

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post #1734 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_pro View Post

Let me know if this is helpful or I missed anything, as I don't even have one of these sets (yet).

Perhaps a section for video tearing (like in my YouTube videos). Otherwise, looks fantastic!

EDIT: it won't let me view the results, might want to check the rights on that.

Matt
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post #1735 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chodite View Post

Whew, long thread!

A couple of questions for those familiar with the HL61A750 model:

3. Best Buy currently has this set for $2,299. Any better deals out there currently?

I'm looking to make a purchase this weekend, so any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

I believe the CC price is $2199

Scott Shanks
Louisville, KY
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post #1736 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chodite View Post

3. Best Buy currently has this set for $2,299. Any better deals out there currently?

Remember that best buy will price match. hhgregg has it for 2199.
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post #1737 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 12:50 PM
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Amen for price matching.
Is this thing really only 71 lbs?

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post #1738 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 12:51 PM
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A friend and I easily moved the TV in the box it came in up two flights of stairs. The box has handles in the middle of it, it was very easy and not heavy at all.
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post #1739 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 01:37 PM
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I just got my HL50A650 today, and I have a quick question. I am able to display blu-rays on my PS3 in 1080p24 mode, but I was wondering how to get the 120hz mode active. Is it always on, or is there an option in the menu? I thought it was supposed to look more like a video rather than film, and it doesn't appear that way.
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post #1740 of 5060 Old 04-11-2008, 02:28 PM
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3. Best Buy currently has this set for $2,299. Any better deals out there currently?

-------------------------------------------------

Thanks to Patsy and Erock1 among others for cluing me in to Crutchfield's. I called
the 800 number April 2, got the deal of free shipping and stand for 2275 (you have
to ask for that discount), and April 8 the set was delivered to my Miami address. There
are still have several sets in stock.

My HL-R5668W has a great picture, but the A750 pq is simply breathtaking! Only
negative so far is the lack of a built-in TV Guide (set and remote) that my HLR has,
and a second RF input is nice for OTA reception along with analog cable, just in case
of cable problems.
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