2008 Samsung DLP's Discussion (HLxxA650/A750) - Page 61 - AVS Forum
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post #1801 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by r1dude57 View Post

Okay, whatever. What you inferred was that since the tv is 120hz, that it is going to have that 'look' to it, which is incorrect. Did you or did you not say this....?
"I think it looks incredibly un-natural. I hope that this does not become the norm. I'd never be able to watch even one movie like this, much less every single thing I watch. I'm really glad this TV doesn't do that."

That in itself is an inference that you believe the tv will look like that all the time.

How can I infer that it's because the tv is 120Hz when I don't even say anything about 120 Hz? I did say what you quoted but no where in there did I say that the tv will look like that all the time. I said that i hope it does not become the NORM. After I said that, I said that about watching every single thing in that way. Because if it became the norm, I would have to watch everything like that, wouldn't I? Don't you have anything better to do than stir up trouble on a forum?

For everyone else's sake on here that's trying to have a discussion about TVs I will no longer respond to anything else you try to argue about with me on this. Have fun assuming and telling people what they said even though what you say they said is nowhere to be found.
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post #1802 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 03:28 AM
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about what percentage of people are having these issues?... are we talking nearly every owner of the newer LED DLPs?... or are we getting scewed (sp?) results due to this being the AVS forum?....

it seems to be too many of us here are having problems and I would assume that even more people out there are having issues who don't post on AVS and such... I just find it odd that Samsung hasn't at least said there's a problem and we're working on it.


How long did it take Samsung to admit to the LCD problems and fix those??

TK
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post #1803 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonish View Post

...no where in there did I say that the tv will look like that all the time. ...

Sorry but I read your post exactly the same as r1dude57. I think you're being too touchy about his response. We all misspeak once in a while, like Hillary Clinton.
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post #1804 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 04:27 AM
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does anyone have any info. on when this will be available in Canada (and where?)
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post #1805 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slamduncan View Post

does anyone have any info. on when this will be available in Canada (and where?)

I had asked that same question a while ago but no response. Also have emailed Samsung with nothing as well....Quite an amazing thread that has kept me reading up on all the things to look for in my next purchase. i still think this TV is the way to go considering all the pros and cons. I just hope that this cycle power up and down will be resolved by the time it shows up here.
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post #1806 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Which pattern did you use to set Contrast?

The third one -- all whites. I find it easier to use than the second one with mixed blacks & whites. But I'll go back & try your suggestion.
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post #1807 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Sorry, what is HCFR please?

It's calibration software that works with an assortment of hardware colorimeters.
Read more at http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/index_en.php or on the AVS display-calibration threads like this one or this one.
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post #1808 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 06:30 AM
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650A on sale at CC with 3 yr. interest free.......
looks like a great deal....any comments?
I am oh so ready to buy..........
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post #1809 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenZ View Post

The third one -- all whites. I find it easier to use than the second one with mixed blacks & whites. But I'll go back & try your suggestion.

Displays have an easier time showing all dark or light images so in most cases Contrast can be set higher and Brightness lower with them. The true test is with mixed content as this is what will be displayed most of the time.

Using an all light image I could set Contrast up to 98 (at 100 I lost a bar). With an all dark image I could set Brightness down to 49. However when I used the Misc Pattern (Beta 2 version I believe) both whites and blacks were being crushed. So I keep adjusting both a little at a time until neither was getting crushed. Which ended up with 85 for Contrast and 63 for Brightness.

In viewing actual content setting Brightness to 63 gives the image a little too much of a washed out look for my tastes so I have been slowly lowering it a few numbers to somewhere around 60. I was using the NASCAR race last night as it had lots of shadow detail being a night race. I could see I was beginning to crush blacks but I still preferred the added depth.

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post #1810 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 07:37 AM
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JD44,

Good video capture of some of the issues!!!

I have a question/comment. In the Guitar Hero video you posted with the multiple screen blanks within just a few minutes (wow... that sux!), did you have the video AND sound piped to the TV only?

What I would find interesting is if you had some means to pipe the video to the TV and the audio to some independent/external source. I would find it interesting to observe if the TV screen goes blank but you can *hear* the band rock on.

Not sure what to say about the screen tearing though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD44 View Post

For those interested, a video showing a bit more extreme example of the "screen blanking" issue similar to turls' post earlier, with some minor tearing. I originally thought the XBox was giving me fits of the power cycling (like the PS3 / Blu-Ray), but this is obviously not the case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTktulta-Qk

Timeline of key events:
0:12 - first screen blank
1:20 - screen tearing (bottom)
2:21 - second screen blank (five in quick succession)
2:38 - more screen tearing (bottom)
2:46 - third screen blank (two in succession)

Don't know if I have the patience (or time ) to capture a Blu-Ray power cycle, but we'll see.

I'll pull a complete 180 here and say I still really, really, like the set...the PQ is much, much, better than my old RPTV HDTV. Just hope the power cycling / screen blanking gets fixed soon.

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post #1811 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenZ View Post

650A on sale at CC with 3 yr. interest free.......
looks like a great deal....any comments?
I am oh so ready to buy..........

Thats what I did. I went to a different CC yesterday just to compare one more time and I like the 650 picture better hands down. The power cycle issues on the LED dont help either but hopefully they will fix that.
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post #1812 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by gchrist256 View Post

After two weeks with no problems, we were watching an On-Demand movie over Charter Cable. The movie was not HD and the signal was not 1080p. About 15 minutes into the movie the TV powered off/on. TV had been on only about an hour when this ocurred. Only happened once. I will call Samsung service and see what the Samsung plan is to correct this issue. I bought at CC, but have not yet purchased an extended warranty.

I contacted Samsung customer service this morning. The rep thought it was a "fluke" attributable to a power surge (unlikely since it is connected to power surge protector) or a brief interruption in the cable signal. I asked about others with similar problems, she said most complaints (did not specify Model 61A750) were powering off and not coming back on immediately. She said if it continued to let them know and they would send out a service tech.

Powering off/on has only ocurred one time.
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post #1813 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 08:53 AM
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If you state regardless of anything else the set shouldn't turn itself off and back on (specially considering the fact the other equipment didn't shut off) they will often bounce you to level two or three. Unless you get there I doubt your call goes anywhere such as being reported as an actual issue... purely my guess.

I have had only one and a service call is in the works. I figure until they address the issue it needs to be shown it exists. Yesterday I talked to my guy at Best Buy and he stated they would be happy to swap the set for a similar Mits... so it's up to Samsung.

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post #1814 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhferry View Post

Thats what I did. I went to a different CC yesterday just to compare one more time and I like the 650 picture better hands down. The power cycle issues on the LED dont help either but hopefully they will fix that.

what was CC's deal if it was what is stated on the site as 1,999.99 and for 2,199.99 then thats not a deal at all.... the two hundred dollar difference will show up on your first bulb replacement whenever that happens could be a year could be 5....... also the reset issue happens with the 750 (which happens very rarely and surely will be fixed) but I am sure the 650 has some kind of flaws, they seem to all have em'....
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post #1815 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Chodite View Post

Whew, long thread!

A couple of questions for those familiar with the HL61A750 model:

1. I'm looking to replace my 55" Mitsu RP HDTV with at least a 60" HDTV. For the value, is LED DLP my best bet? I also own a 50" Samsung plasma (720p) and the PQ still blows me away. Will I be disappointed going from plasma to DLP? And yes, I know that the cost of a 60" 1080p plasma is astronomical.

2. I own a Canon HV20 HD video camera that can record and playback at 24p. Does the HL61A750 display true 24p?

3. Best Buy currently has this set for $2,299. Any better deals out there currently?

I'm looking to make a purchase this weekend, so any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

I got the HL61A750 at Best Buy last Friday for $1999.99 after I told them that an Ebay store had it for $1977.99. Not quite a match but close enough for me. The picture quality for me is great, I replaced a 5 year old Toshiba 57 inch and I'm very pleased with how crisp and clear the display is. I have had the power cycle at least 3 times. Hoping the come up with a fix for that.
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post #1816 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 10:50 AM
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For all you Canadians waiting for this tv, I just got off the phone with Samsung and the guy said that this set should be out in Canada around July. I guess we will have to wait and see.
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post #1817 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 10:54 AM
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I've followed this thread, because I am interested in this set. Can anyone recreate the problem? So when a firmware does come out, we can tell it's fixed.

Also, the image tear issue, same thing with that. Is it reproducable?
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post #1818 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I'm using Normal for Color Tone since all of the other settings say they alter the image so I try to avoid them. I won't mess around with adjusting colors without a sensor as other wise you are simply blindly guessing at best.

Regarding the filmmakers intent remember the Samsung's Movie preset is just someone's take trying to present a film like look. Typically a darker and muted image with a softer look.

Whether one wants an accurate image or rather one to their personal taste I don't think they is a correct answer. I tend to set contrast, brightness, sharpness, and color accurately and then make minor adjustments based on the display and my personal likes and dislikes.

As I mentioned before my Optoma HD80 projector isn't great at displaying shadow details so I tend to crush blacks a little with it. Doing this adds a lot of pop. If I raise black level to help with the shadow details the image becomes a little washed out. So I personally lean towards accurate unless there is good reason to stray.

Yeah, I know the "movie" mode is just someone's settings... I do use it so that you have access to the xvycc setting (you don't on normal, why do they insist on not giving access to all the settings?) but I change other settings (brightness, etc) based on my findings/a more professional calibrator's settings (such as yourself)

I guess the better way to phrase what I was asking is exactly how you put it... the added depth and black crush VS slightly washed out but shadow detail. I find it hard to decide which one of those I really prefer. I would like to know more about "dynamic contrast" though, everyone always left it off up until you talked about it. I wonder if you could share some of your knowledge/point me in the right direction for knowing more.

I am also very curious on what you find with gamma levels. I wonder if gamma is different based on what input you use and your other settings. With a bluray movie on HDMI1 thru my ps3, I set gamma to +1. This seems to ADD contrast and pop, while also keeping fine details and also has a much LESS washed out look than 0. But then through component 2 (my cable box) I leave gamma at 0 because gamma seems to be more of a linear progression through brighter/more washed out and 0 seems decent.

Once again your knowledge/findings are greatly appreciated
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post #1819 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 11:31 AM
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thanks mike.. thats a bit longer than I was hoping to wait especially since I want the 67 inch but maybe that won't be too long after..

I guess I don't really have many options over 60 inches anyhow.. though I saw a panasonic 61 inch at costco today for 1600 and I was tempted as i'm SICK of waiting

thanks again
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post #1820 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxhd View Post

I got the HL61A750 at Best Buy last Friday for $1999.99 after I told them that an Ebay store had it for $1977.99. Not quite a match but close enough for me. The picture quality for me is great, I replaced a 5 year old Toshiba 57 inch and I'm very pleased with how crisp and clear the display is. I have had the power cycle at least 3 times. Hoping the come up with a fix for that.

Thanks for the reply.
And yeah, BB is pretty good at price matching. I talked them into giving me the HL61A750 for $2,000 flat before tax on Friday.
That's even better than Amazon's $2,199 (free S&H, no tax)

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post #1821 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finsmaniac02 View Post

Yeah, I know the "movie" mode is just someone's settings... I do use it so that you have access to the xvycc setting (you don't on normal, why do they insist on not giving access to all the settings?) but I change other settings (brightness, etc) based on my findings/a more professional calibrator's settings (such as yourself)

Is there any source material that supports xvYCC? I'm almost positive nothing on Blu-ray or such does. I'm certainly not a professional calibrator or I'd be charging.

Quote:


I guess the better way to phrase what I was asking is exactly how you put it... the added depth and black crush VS slightly washed out but shadow detail. I find it hard to decide which one of those I really prefer.

For me I try to obtain an image that feels natural. One I would expect to see if I was viewing the image in real life. Using various test patterns will get you fairly close to this but ultimately your eyes and preferences are more important than setting the display to its best ability. Who knows based on the display it might not come close to being able to display what was actually intended.

Quote:


I would like to know more about "dynamic contrast" though, everyone always left it off up until you talked about it. I wonder if you could share some of your knowledge/point me in the right direction for knowing more.

I haven't really dug into this set since I may be returning it (because of the reset issue) but I think Dynamic Contrast works similar to a dynamic iris. According to Samsung...

"The “Dynamic Contrast” application reproduces optimized contrast by detecting the characteristics and contrast level of input signals."

In most cases the more contrast the better (until you crush either end) so setting the option to High makes sense to me. Once set then adjust Contrast and Brightness so you aren't crushing either.

Quote:


I am also very curious on what you find with gamma levels. I wonder if gamma is different based on what input you use and your other settings. With a bluray movie on HDMI1 thru my ps3, I set gamma to +1. This seems to ADD contrast and pop, while also keeping fine details and also has a much LESS washed out look than 0. But then through component 2 (my cable box) I leave gamma at 0 because gamma seems to be more of a linear progression through brighter/more washed out and 0 seems decent.

Gamma is one tricky bugger! However I think the setting isn't unique per input. The tricky part is you simply can't throw up a test pattern (in most cases) and see which setting works the best. This is because the actual effect of the Gamma setting is only visible after watching a variety of content. Light, dark and all types of mixed images.

As an example last night when I watched the night race I froze the image several times and tried various Gamma settings. With one image one setting would look terrific and with the next image it would look awful. So without extensive testing I simply left it at 0 which more than likely is closer to the desired curve than the others.

One thing to keep in mind is if you simply change the Gamma setting without going back and adjusting Contrast and Brightness you aren't really giving each setting a fair chance.

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post #1822 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mike1511 View Post

For all you Canadians waiting for this tv, I just got off the phone with Samsung and the guy said that this set should be out in Canada around July. I guess we will have to wait and see.

Good to hear. Wonder who'se going to sell it? The way the B&M stores are going, we're only going to be able to buy it online.
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post #1823 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 12:58 PM
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Some random shots I took last night (HL61A750)

Pirates III (Blu-Ray)


Walk Hard trailer (downloaded from PSN store)


Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds: Live from Radio City Music Hall (Blu-Ray)




MLB 08 The Show (PS3)



For the gamers out there, I'll be playing some Xbox 360 today and will take some shots.

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post #1824 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallen94 View Post

Have you tried using a 360 VGA cable?

It would be an option if I had one to try, but as far as long term use I've heard that the picture is too dark using VGA. Next time I'm at Best Buy I may buy all 3 options (another component, VGA, and Mad Catz HDMI converter) and take back what I don't decide to keep.

Matt
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post #1825 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 01:14 PM
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FWIW, I've had the 61A750 for a week, watched multiple movies (upconvert/HDMI) and plenty of Cable (HDMI), as well as a few consistent hours of XBOX360 (component), and have not any issues as of yet (KNOCK ON WOOD).

Just thought I'd share a positive to sprinkle in with the issues people are reporting. Believe me, I'm not smug - it took 5 weeks to get my old set (HLP6163W) replaced by BB after 5 light engine replacements (created terrible dark color washouts after initially being a loud color wheel bearing).
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post #1826 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mistergadgett View Post

JD44,

Good video capture of some of the issues!!!

I have a question/comment. In the Guitar Hero video you posted with the multiple screen blanks within just a few minutes (wow... that sux!), did you have the video AND sound piped to the TV only?

What I would find interesting is if you had some means to pipe the video to the TV and the audio to some independent/external source. I would find it interesting to observe if the TV screen goes blank but you can *hear* the band rock on.

Yes, both video and audio were being sent to the TV (audio via L/R RCA inputs). I would be willing to bet that the audio would continue to play if routed through a receiver or an external device - the XBox is (obviously) unaffected by the screen blanking.

Unfortunately, I have all my cables routed through the TV stand and zip tied for a cleaner look - it would have taken a bit of time to hook up the XBox to the receiver (well, at least more time than I was willing to spend ). Maybe some other time if I bring the XBox down again I will give it a go (it's connected to a different TV most of the time).

Interestingly, though, I decided to try and capture an actual power cycle on video today - PS3 Blu/Ray @ 1920 x 1080p, 24 Hz - and of course, I was unsuccessful. Made it through all of 3:10 to Yuma and and hour and a half of Spider-Man 3 (which was the second movie that gave me a power cycle) to no avail. Go figure.
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post #1827 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chodite View Post

Some random shots I took last night (HL61A750)

I have a HL61A750 but these weren't taken with it... rather via my projector (110 inch image).











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post #1828 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 06:07 PM
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We were approved for a replacement for our 4 year old Panasonic LCD RPTV with our extended warranty with Best Buy. After looking at what was available for us at Best buy, we decided we wanted a Samsung HLxxA750 or the HLT6187S. Best Buy was very cool with us since they did not have either TV at the store where we bought the TV, but gave us store credit to pick one up at the next closest store. We picked up an HL61A750 and were very excited to get it home. I was going to calibrate it enough for us to throw in a Blu-ray DVD and watch it with our kids before bedtime.

Things started good, and then as I was calibrating the TV the picture suddenly turned blue and got darker and darker until it shut off. I immediately called Best Buy and will be getting a replacement on Wednesday.

Has anyone else had an issue like this? Hopefully the new TV will work, because until we lost the picture, it looked pretty nice!
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post #1829 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I have a HL61A750 but these weren't taken with it... rather via my projector (110 inch image).

Wow. That's really impressive! Especially that first shot. What kind of projector is that? I was under the impression that projectors (even HD ones) could not produce the same detail, sharpness, and clarity as TVs. I guess I'm way behind the times as far as projectors go? Awesome!
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post #1830 of 5060 Old 04-13-2008, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by turls View Post

It would be an option if I had one to try, but as far as long term use I've heard that the picture is too dark using VGA. Next time I'm at Best Buy I may buy all 3 options (another component, VGA, and Mad Catz HDMI converter) and take back what I don't decide to keep.

Well the Mad Catz product is just a Component->HDMI converter so the odds of it doing better than a straight VGA cable are small UNLESS the tv doesn't have proper calibration controls for the VGA input. Speaking of which, many sets don't have all their image controls available for the VGA. Also, black levels over VGA are not the same across all sets- that's often where the "VGA looks too dark" comes from. The problem is not unique to the 360- I've had similar problems with VGA into some sets from a ReplayTV and a Dreamcast.
The 360 does have settings to try to accomodate different black levels:
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7216
My friend has an 87SAX and hooks his 360 up via VGA and works perfectly, so I would hope the 2008 LED DLPs would work just as well.
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