Mitsubishi's 65-inch Laser TV prototype Revealed! Overpriced? - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 4189 Old 01-23-2008, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by crackmonkey View Post

thanks nola - most places i've read blindly quote about 80%. i was surprised to hear 90-95 (but kinda splitting hairs at this point - bottom line it blows the competion away on color).

as far as the refresh, i am also surprised to hear 240 (anything other than 120 seems unnecessary). that also may only be for when the realD is in use though. so i guess we can assume at least 120 for non 3d media (whereas when you load a 3d disc, the 3d chip might kick in at 240???).

either way, still disappointed that they haven't really spelled anything out though. also seems a little concerning.

no that would mean 240 for non 3d and 3d would use to 240 as 120/120 much like currently 3d dlp sets are 120hz at 60/60 i remember ti said that 240hz will give like 60% or so less judder thats fine for 2d conntent and dlp is really fast anyways so it doesnt matter, but in 3d the refresh rate is even more important.
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post #182 of 4189 Old 01-23-2008, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by crackmonkey View Post

either way, still disappointed that they haven't really spelled anything out though. also seems a little concerning.

Why? Their product isnt even available yet.
I am sure when it releases (late fall by most accounts except 1 guy in this thread that said late spring) they will reveal all the information you want.
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post #183 of 4189 Old 01-23-2008, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Hipnotiq View Post

Why? Their product isnt even available yet.
I am sure when it releases (late fall by most accounts except 1 guy in this thread that said late spring) they will reveal all the information you want.

doubt late spring, i remember reading somewhere after ces, that mits will release more details on the sets in may
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post #184 of 4189 Old 01-23-2008, 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by hdnola:
while it may not seem like a big deal to replace a bulb, i would rather not ever having to worry about needing to be bothered with doing so. like say u are watching a football gaming or ufc or boxing or movie then right in the middle the lamp goes out . ya you might have a replacement bulb on hand, but by the time u replace it, the fight might be over, game pretty much downhill, or you are no longer able to just lose yourself in the movie anymore.

That's what DVRs are for! :-)

I know what you are saying though. My RPTV bulb is coming up on 7000 hours and been in place for 3 years and 2 months. I think I am just going to do some preventative maintenance and replace it a 3.5 years.

I don't know if the premium they are talking about for laser TV and no bulbs will be worth it. I don't plan on keeping it longer than 5-years.

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post #185 of 4189 Old 01-23-2008, 09:34 PM
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Email Mitsubishi on their web site. this is resposne I got from them when I asked when it will be available.

Thank you for contacting Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc. We are pleased to be able to assist our customers via our website. Here is the information that you have requested:


The laser TV will be arriving early summer.


MDEA Service
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post #186 of 4189 Old 01-24-2008, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by xtremxterra View Post

Email Mitsubishi on their web site. this is resposne I got from them when I asked when it will be available.

Thank you for contacting Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc. We are pleased to be able to assist our customers via our website. Here is the information that you have requested:


The laser TV will be arriving early summer.


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Interesting, hopefully more details will be forth coming vering soon. I hope they release a 73'' model like their Diamond Series.

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post #187 of 4189 Old 01-24-2008, 01:57 PM
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In addition to Mitsubishi's Rear Projection Novelux teamed up with JVC at CES to show lasers abillity for Front Projection. There was no mention as to when/if it would come to market. Exciting to hear Mits. will have it available this summer.
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post #188 of 4189 Old 01-24-2008, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackmonkey View Post

I've been waiting for so long to get an HD (yes, i'm still SD - no comments necessary from the peanut gallery). I was really looking forward to finding out what was being offered at CES this year, but i think it's just given me more questions though. The laser DLP (i was really hoping for a sony laser SXRD offering) looks nice, but they've provided no details, which to me is a very big red flag. If you truly have the best, let us know it. And i'm also a little surprised by the lack of reviews for the new laser. I don't think i've read one comment about viewing angle (i know they 'should' be good, but are they comparable to plasma).

So since there's no laser sxrd, here's some thoughts/questions i have. I'm mostly thinking out loud in case someone finds the info or wants to vent with me, so no need to answer, i know the info isn't out there - groan!:
- Mits hasn't released details. If the specs are so good, let us know. This is a pretty big red flag to me.
- Part of the reason i wanted a sony laser sxrd is for product quality reason. say what you will about sony, but their product quality is pretty good (when it actually works). I've never been impressed with Mits DLP. Yeah they're really big, but the quality almost always sucks.
- What are the viewing angles for this thing. Does it have the 'window' look of plasma or the rear projection look with regard to viewing angles.
- This is a first generation tv. What bugs will they be fixing in next years models?
- Price. C'mon... priced like a comparably sized LCD flatpanel?!?! I suspect(hope actually) that Mits is just putting out the 'feelers' on this one to see how the market responds and what they can get away with. My advice, if you really want to get market share and clean house make us an offer (a really really cheap one) we can't refuse. And we've already heard from novalux that the lasers aren't that much and the tv will be less since less optics will be needed.
- Shows 80% of what the eye can see, vivid colors etc... but how accurately does it show them (fingers crossed). I'm assuming it will need expensive calibration to bring out the best in the tv (like all others).
- Contrast ratio - this is one spec i was especially ticked they didn't talk about. I know it 'should' be high, but what is it (5K, 10K, 20K, etc...)??? C'mon, stop teasing us!
- A release date of 'later this year'. You just suck for saying that Mits. Give us something a little more solid and stick to it. (I also heard black friday, and even though i heard first half of 08 somewhere too).
- What the refresh rate - 60? 120? To quote the laser doc - throw us a fricken bone why don't ya!

My backup is a Kuro. They just look great! But man are they expensive and i was really set on something larger than 60". Oh well, i guess it's time to return to playing the waiting game for more information (thumbs twiddling), dang!

Panasonics new plasmas are supposed to have as deep of blacks as the current Kuro and are supposedly brighter and will have a 65 inch model. I'd have to guess they'll be a bit less than the current Kuro but no prices have been given as of yet. The new Kuro's which I'm guessing will be out in the Summer are supposed to be a big leap in black levels also. I too will consider a Laser TV if it's that good and the price is right. For one who likes to upgrade I just don't see spending flat-panel type prices on a new "boxy" television unless it's vastly superior to a plasma or an LCD. I just don't believe the hype for now.
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post #189 of 4189 Old 01-24-2008, 03:40 PM
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Whenever we do get more details, it will be interesting to see if it still uses wobulation to achieve full 1080p resolution. In my book, that is one thing that makes DLP inferior to LCoS. It's too bad Sony and JVC seem to be throwing in the towel on LCoS for RPTV. Laser with LCoS would be interesting.
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post #190 of 4189 Old 01-24-2008, 07:48 PM
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What is wrong with wobulation?

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
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post #191 of 4189 Old 01-24-2008, 08:07 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Icaillo:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobulation

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post #192 of 4189 Old 01-24-2008, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

What is wrong with wobulation?

Not much.

The projected image is a 1080p image, but competition from Sony and JVC described their micro technology as "true 1080p" because there is one pixel on the chip for each pixel projected on the screen. With wobulation, one mirror on the DLP chip controls the projection of two adjacent pixels on the screen.

In the market place, Sony and JVC have abandoned LCoS micro chip RPTV technology, while Samsung, Toshiba (maybe), and Mitsubishi, using wobulated DLP, are still in the game.

A few individuals feel that they can see the wobulation taking place. Given the speed that DLPs operate at that's surprising.

The main problem for micro chip RPTV technology of all types is the hype that flat panels get, and that a lot of people like the idea of a thin screen in their living rooms and family rooms.
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post #193 of 4189 Old 01-25-2008, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Not much.
A few individuals feel that they can see the wobulation taking place. Given the speed that DLPs operate at that's surprising.

The main problem for micro chip RPTV technology of all types is the hype that flat panels get, and that a lot of people like the idea of a thin screen in their living rooms and family rooms.

I AM WITH YOU
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post #194 of 4189 Old 01-25-2008, 04:44 PM
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I was reading a review from pc world, and the editor said the picture looked artificial because there is to much color. I can picture that being a problem given present tvs produce half the colors, and look very natural to me. Heres the link to the article. http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006226.html
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post #195 of 4189 Old 01-25-2008, 04:51 PM
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in the article it says that mits tv wont be at cc or bb does that mean they will only be having a laser model and no more lamp models?

SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND.
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post #196 of 4189 Old 01-25-2008, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by nesto719 View Post

in the article it says that mits tv wont be at cc or bb does that mean they will only be having a laser model and no more lamp models?

but what about best buys with magnolia stores?
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post #197 of 4189 Old 01-25-2008, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by nesto719 View Post

in the article it says that mits tv wont be at cc or bb does that mean they will only be having a laser model and no more lamp models?

If the article is about the laser models, then it tells you nothing about Mitsubishi's plans for their current lamp based models.
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post #198 of 4189 Old 01-26-2008, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Not much.

The projected image is a 1080p image, but competition from Sony and JVC described their micro technology as "true 1080p" because there is one pixel on the chip for each pixel projected on the screen. With wobulation, one mirror on the DLP chip controls the projection of two adjacent pixels on the screen.

In the market place, Sony and JVC have abandoned LCoS micro chip RPTV technology, while Samsung, Toshiba (maybe), and Mitsubishi, using wobulated DLP, are still in the game.

A few individuals feel that they can see the wobulation taking place. Given the speed that DLPs operate at that's surprising.

The main problem for micro chip RPTV technology of all types is the hype that flat panels get, and that a lot of people like the idea of a thin screen in their living rooms and family rooms.

It isn't the wobulation itself that I have a problem with. It is the pixels that are rotated 45 degrees and the blurring of single pixel detail that I don't like.

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post #199 of 4189 Old 01-26-2008, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Heyitsme22 View Post

I was reading a review from pc world, and the editor said the picture looked artificial because there is to much color. I can picture that being a problem given present tvs produce half the colors, and look very natural to me. Heres the link to the article. http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006226.html

I wouldn't hold much weight with their first impressions until someone has at least viewed with a remote in hand to control picture settings.
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post #200 of 4189 Old 01-26-2008, 11:47 AM
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It isn't the wobulation itself that I have a problem with. It is the pixels that are rotated 45 degrees and the blurring of single pixel detail that I don't like.

There were a lot of people who felt the same way in 2003 when Samsung sold 720p sets with both types of chips.

The slightly softer (blurred) images created with wobulated displays are thought to be more film like by those who like them, and blurred by those who don't. The blurring comes from a small overlap between adjacent pixel images on the screen. The upside to that overlap is the absence of screen door effect.

Given market pressure on the RPTV segment, I don't expect to see non-wobulated DLP chips used. If I were in the market for a RPTV, I would hope for laser or LED light sources to get enough brightness to improve viewing angles, and reduce silk screen effect.
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post #201 of 4189 Old 01-26-2008, 12:21 PM
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Since these will initially only be sold at "high end" retailers, does that mean we will be stuck with MSRP?
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post #202 of 4189 Old 01-26-2008, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyitsme22 View Post

I was reading a review from pc world, and the editor said the picture looked artificial because there is to much color. I can picture that being a problem given present tvs produce half the colors, and look very natural to me. Heres the link to the article. http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006226.html

I think the big thing to note here is that the display is capable of more color information than any available HD source. If they were using an available HD source (instead of a special computer-created source) they are limited to about half of the color capability of the set. There are already other technologies available capable of going beyond current HD source material- so in real life, the color range beyond that is irrelevant. Accuracy would be much more important than range.

I have a feeling that the simulation used over-saturated colors to get ooh's and aah's- looking at the pictures, they obviously spent a lot of time and money on the demonstration. If not, then the display may be inaccurate in it's representation of the limited colors in standard HD source material.
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post #203 of 4189 Old 01-26-2008, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

There were a lot of people who felt the same way in 2003 when Samsung sold 720p sets with both types of chips.

The slightly softer (blurred) images created with wobulated displays are thought to be more film like by those who like them, and blurred by those who don't. The blurring comes from a small overlap between adjacent pixel images on the screen. The upside to that overlap is the absence of screen door effect.

Yeah, I used to own an HD2+ DLP set. If DLP had stuck with square pixels instead of cheaping out, I might still own one. Instead, now I own a square pixel A3000 SXRD with zero screen door effect, and an extremely film-like picture.

I really don't think that SDE is really an issue on 1080p sets.

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post #204 of 4189 Old 01-26-2008, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Shape View Post

I really don't think that SDE is really an issue on 1080p sets.

No, but RPTV sets using non-wobulated DLP chips, or Sony's SXRD chip are not going to be manufactured going forward into the foreseeable future.
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post #205 of 4189 Old 01-28-2008, 01:12 PM
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With the introduction of these Laser DLPs, does that mean the elimination of the Color Wheel as well?
No Color Wheel & Lamps is great!

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post #206 of 4189 Old 01-28-2008, 03:12 PM
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With the introduction of these Laser DLPs, does that mean the elimination of the Color Wheel as well?
No Color Wheel & Lamps is great!

Neither LED nor laser sets need a wheel. That's one of their big advantages.
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post #207 of 4189 Old 01-29-2008, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by davegow View Post

Neither LED nor laser sets need a wheel. That's one of their big advantages.

Thanks Dave. That's awesome news. Being that I am currently an owner of the HP MD5880n 65'' RPHDTV, it has both the lamp & color wheel built in it. The set PQ is great, but the cost of replacing a lamp ($350) & the color wheel ($2300) has dampened my mood & view of RPTVs w/ lamps/color wheels.

Laser TVs have my attention, hopefully more news is forthcoming very soon from Mitsubishi!

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post #208 of 4189 Old 01-30-2008, 04:35 PM
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post #210 of 4189 Old 01-30-2008, 10:03 PM
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I think the biggest challenge for laser technology is going to be price.

The massive amount of resources going into LCD tech will make prices come down and quality go up faster than laser can keep up with.

A year ago 65" LCD was $7000, currently you can get one for $4000, by this Christmas it will be $2500.

Are they factoring in these kind of price drops?
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