Mitsubishi's 65-inch Laser TV prototype Revealed! Overpriced? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 4189 Old 01-07-2008, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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IF YOU THINK SOMETHING SHOULD BE ADDED TO THIS THREAD, PLEASE PM ME.

Official Mitsubishi LaserVue website: http://laservuetv.com/
Mitsubishi LaserVue product page: http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/product/L65A90
The Mitsubishi LaserVue 65" are out for sale now at an MSRP of $6999
UPDATE: a 75" model L75-A91 is set for release in July 2010 at an MSRP of $5,999. More info here: http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/product/L75A91

Wikipedia Laser TV: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_TV

Reviews:
http://hdguru.com/mitsubishi-laservu...exclusive/310/
"To wrap up, the L-65A90 has its place among the best HDTVs in the market today. Price wise, it is comparable or less than competing size flat screen displays such as the 65” Panasonic Premiere. The HD Guru awards the Mitsubishi L65A90 its highest (4-heart) rating."

http://www.time.com/time/business/ar...848456,00.html
"the best home-entertainment display in America."

http://www.thetechlounge.com/article...We-Meet-Again/


Older info:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Official press release: http://www.reuters.com/article/press...008+BW20080108
"Mitsubishi LaserTVs not only provide the ultimate picture quality, they are also capable of delivering a true 3D viewing experience, demonstrating the company's continued commitment to set the standard for entertainment viewing by partnering with Hollywood on next-generation entertainment solutions. Mitsubishi teamed with leading 3D digital technology provider REAL D to demonstrate the most advanced 3D content available today." - Stereoscopic capabilities, bonus! REAL D makes the technology used in theme parks and used in recent 3D movies like Meet the Robinsons, Chicken Little and Beowolf. Of note, Mitsubishi is also making the first 3D Blu-ray player. Samsung also has stereo 3D in some of it's TVs that also uses LCD shutter technology.

June 25, 2008: "LaserVue will be available in 65" and 73" models with the 65” Diamond shipping to authorized retailers in the third quarter of this year and the 73” Diamond to follow." - "With operating power targeted at under 200 watts, they are environmentally friendly, consuming approximately one-half the power of today's LCD TVs, and one-third of plasma TVs. At approximately 10 inches deep, LaserVue TV has been designed for both floor stand and wall-mount applications."

As you can see it is not a flat panel design as was previously reported, but it is under 10" deep and is wall mountable. Their official FAQ states that it will use DLP technology.

In 2006 it was reported that: "Pricing is yet to be confirmed but Novalux estimates a 65-inch model will cost around AU$2,500 ($2,197.00 USD!), significantly less than a similar-sized plasma." - And they have always touted it as inexpensive over the years.

Before CES IGN said: http://gear.ign.com/articles/843/843644p1.html
"This year's show is particularly interesting, as we'll witness the world reveal of Laser HDTV, a new display technology that some have promised will deliver 60-inch HDTVs priced at less than $1,000 by the end of the year."

But after CES IGN says: http://gear.ign.com/articles/844/844527p1.html
"pricing would be equivalent to flat panel displays of the same size, which means around $5k to $7k. That's a far cry from previous comments from Novalux (designer of the RGB lasers in the displays) that the technology would cost only half as much as alternate HDTV technologies. Mitsubishi is apparently banking on the high end for the initial launch of Laser HDTV, though it'll be interesting to see what traction the company can gain in a market that is increasingly favoring hang on the wall flat panels."

More exclusive info and pics from Wired (interestingly, they call it a 50"): http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/0...08-mitsub.html
"The Laser TV comes embedded with a Real-D 3D processor so that, with the specific glasses (like those you get at top IMAXes, you can see top of the line 3D programming at home.
They will be released late this year, around Black Friday, and will retail over the price of current LCDs. We’ll follow up with more details and an exclusive interview with the Vice President of the US division
." - The first thing I'd ask in the interview is why did the price shoot up so dramatically!

Engadget's pics here: http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/m...otype-spotted/

Gizmodo's coverage of the girls in their booth: http://gizmodo.com/342045/mitsubishi...rls-on-the-set

More pics and information here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...entry_id=23268

PC World's impressions are interesting: http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006226.html
"I felt like a kid experiencing something new for the first time. I think I took my eyes off the TVs just once to turn to my colleague Jeff Kuta to say "wow." He looked back at me and simply nodded his head in agreement.""Though pricing isn't announced, I was told that you won't see the Laser TVs at your Best Buys and Circuit Citys. Rather, they'll only be available through high-end retailers." - That's not good!

Smarthouse and MIT's Technology Review information confirming LCD Glasses used: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/editors/21996/ & http://www.smarthouse.com.au/CES/J3J9X7G7

Sound and Vision guesses that it will cost around $5500: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/fea...er-vision.html

Official price statement: http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/09/w...ext-big-thing/
Frank DeMartin, general manager of Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America says only that: "it'll be competitive with flat panel prices"

Detailed Laser TV information:
http://www.lasertvnews.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_TV
http://laser-tv.org/







JVC also has a Laser Projector at the show that is basically a hacked D-ILA with lasers: http://www.photonicsonline.com/conte...&VNETCOOKIE=NO

My Take: The prospect of Laser TV has intrigued me for a while now, along with SED. They bragged all along that you could get one with double the colors and perfect blacks for much cheaper than Plasma/LCD in 2007. But now they are planning to release it in another year and for more than a flat panel LCD!?!? With Dark plasmas on the way and SED still a possibility, not worth the wait...
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post #2 of 4189 Old 01-07-2008, 09:31 PM
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Nice find Miah! I'm waiting eagerly to find out more about this new Laser DLP TVs & how it performed @ it's unvieling & what those who attended thought.

GO SPURS! GO COWBOYS!
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post #3 of 4189 Old 01-07-2008, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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More here: http://www.i4u.com/article13938.html

Press release: http://www.reuters.com/article/press...008+BW20080108

"Mitsubishi LaserTVs not only provide the ultimate picture quality,
they are also capable of delivering a true 3D viewing experience,
demonstrating the company's continued commitment to set the standard
for entertainment viewing by partnering with Hollywood on
next-generation entertainment solutions."
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post #4 of 4189 Old 01-07-2008, 10:27 PM
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The most important announcement of CES 08 (IMO). Let's hope the PQ matches the hype.
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post #5 of 4189 Old 01-07-2008, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtms View Post

The most important announcement of CES 08 (IMO). Let's hope the PQ matches the hype.

Couldn't agree more!! Let's hope we find out a few more details, like more specs and prices, sometime soon!!

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post #6 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 03:24 AM
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I think OLED will prove to have a better overall PQ than laser. I dont think laser contrast ratio can touch Oled
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post #7 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 06:06 AM
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probably to early too tell but will this set be released this year?

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post #8 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blklacker View Post

I think OLED will prove to have a better overall PQ than laser. I dont think laser contrast ratio can touch Oled

It looks like the laser will be much less expensive than OLED. The question is how close the CR and viewing angles are and the life span of the laser.
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post #9 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcallister View Post

probably to early too tell but will this set be released this year?


I saw a statement on Gizmodo that said "later this year"...
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post #10 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m1fuller68 View Post

I saw a statement on Gizmodo that said "later this year"...

It says so in the first post, around Black Friday.
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post #11 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 07:06 AM
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Here's another story:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...entry_id=23268

The Black Friday date is kind of a bummer. I'll reclaim my basement rec-room when my son begins college in late August (after many years of it being his domain), and that's my target date for making the jump to HDTV. Laser seems to fit all my criteria, and I really don't want to wait until late-November!

BTW; I'm wondering why the various stories are running such crappy pictures!
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post #12 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 07:10 AM
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Looks promising. A few key questions:

-- How deep is the 65" set? Looks pretty slim. If less than 12" deep, definitely a winner.

-- How bright? Can it match LCD for daytime viewing?

-- Are viewing angles similar to other RP technologies, or better? I'm thinking that the coherent, focused nature of a laser light source might allow for a different RP screen design with wider viewing angles.
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post #13 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieG View Post

Looks promising. A few key questions:

-- How deep is the 65" set? Looks pretty slim. If less than 12" deep, definitely a winner.

-

"just under 10 inches deep".
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post #14 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regularguy View Post

Here's another story:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...entry_id=23268

The Black Friday date is kind of a bummer. I'll reclaim my basement rec-room when my son begins college in late August (after many years of it being his domain), and that's my target date for making the jump to HDTV. Laser seems to fit all my criteria, and I really don't want to wait until late-November!

BTW; I'm wondering why the various stories are running such crappy pictures!

Thanks, added the info and pic above!
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post #15 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 07:28 AM
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SED was displayed as a prototype but then fizzled. This one, however, looks more promising with some projected dates and sizes. Glad I'm happy with my D-ILA so I can wait for my next purchase.

We currently don't have Mitsubishi HDTVs in Canada but then we didn't have their cars until recently either and now we do, so the future looks interesting.

Hey RP fans, who needs Sony anyway?
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post #16 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blklacker View Post

I think OLED will prove to have a better overall PQ than laser. I dont think laser contrast ratio can touch Oled

I saw on Sony's website they have the new OLED TV 11" screen for 2500 bucks but it's only 3mm thick..
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post #17 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by creatine64 View Post

I saw on Sony's website they have the new OLED TV 11" screen for 2500 bucks but it's only 3mm thick..

Wow. 11". That might look great on a portable BD player. What would that cost? $3k.

Also, what is it about Sony not supporting Western technology. They don't do DLP (Texas Instruments) and it appears they won't do Laser (Novalux).
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Nothing that fantastic about 3D support, it was in last years models (you need to wear glasses and you probably still have to buy the box and glasses), and the fact that nVidia has a terrible record on keeping 3D updates to games timely (they have to support it), makes that part of it non-news.

That being said, heck yeah if I'm getting DLP anyway this is a checkmark on my list for a little future-proofing if it does take off.

Same issues with DualView that is also being pushed there--the game has to support it, so I'm not holding my breath.

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Quote:
65-inch model will cost around AU$2,500 ($2,197.00 USD!), significantly less than a similar-sized plasma."

and

Quote:
and will retail over the price of current LCDs

So which quote is correct? As far as I know LCD's that big do not cost $2100. I'm placing bets on these things being closer to the $10k prices than the $3k prices. So much for it being cheaper to produce.

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I'm a believer in the future of OLED, but these laser based DLP TV's well be in homes years before a 65" OLED is even prototyped. It's critical for TI to see these TV's make it, in order to keep DMD sales alive. But that said Front Projection is the future for DMD and Lasers. RPTV will slowly die as flat panels get better, thinner and cheaper. I made the argument about 2 years ago that there wasn't a huge difference between a 4.5" thick plasma and a 12" thick RPTV in 60" sizes. Now we are getting to the point there is a big difference, when Plasma and LCD are is shrunking to 1" and the RPTV is 10" there is a huge difference.

In Front Projection these factors don't matter, a Laser DLP projector projecting at 100" will blow away a 65" Plasma no matter how thin. Plasma and LCD just can't compete at large (home theater) sizes. Sony's KDL-70XBR3 is a 70" LCD for only $ 32,999, it weighs 175 lbs, and is a huge piece of glass to hang on the wall. Even if a laser projector were double the price of the current DLP 1080p based projectors, that would put us in the $5-10,000 range for a decent HT projector. Obviously they aren't ready to put a laser DLP projector on the market yet. But when they do, I have a feeling my Home theater will get that much better.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

Nothing that fantastic about 3D support, it was in last years models (you need to wear glasses and you probably still have to buy the box and glasses), and the fact that nVidia has a terrible record on keeping 3D updates to games timely (they have to support it), makes that part of it non-news.

That being said, heck yeah if I'm getting DLP anyway this is a checkmark on my list for a little future-proofing if it does take off.

Same issues with DualView that is also being pushed there--the game has to support it, so I'm not holding my breath.

Actually, the Stereo 3D that Nvidia has available for games has nothing to do with what they are adding to this TV. Nvidia's 3D has been around for many moons for games, and uses either red/blue or LCD glasses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeAlletto View Post

So which quote is correct? As far as I know LCD's that big do not cost $2100. I'm placing bets on these things being closer to the $10k prices than the $3k prices. So much for it being cheaper to produce.

They were bragging about it being under the prices of competitors all along, recently saying that they would be under 1k by year end. Now they are saying that it will be more than LCDs by year end.

Seems they got greedy!
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post #22 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiahXgaming View Post

Actually, the Stereo 3D that Nvidia has available for games has nothing to do with what they are adding to this TV. Nvidia's 3D has been around for many moons for games, and uses either red/blue or LCD glasses.

Nothing to do with it? I beg to differ, the only way you get glitch free performance is if you have support at the driver level, so one way or the other to get broad, reliable support you have to have nVidia and/or ATI onboard. Its still two images, so whether it is red-blue, LCD, or this technology, its really all basically the same as far as driver support goes.

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post #23 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
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This is the 3D that is used at theme parks commonly with polarized glasses, much better technology. It was recently used in Chicken Little, Meet the Robinsons, and Beowolf.

It can't possibly used polarized glasses. If it did, it would have to have two projection lenses with polarizers in front of them, which is how those polarized 3D movies work in theaters.

This DLP 3D must use the shuttered LCD variety of glasses.

Also, I would expect that the dual view technology would actually use two separate inputs on the TV for the two screens. So you could just use 2 consoles with the TV, and it wouldn't need special support in the game.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

Nothing to do with it? I beg to differ, the only way you get glitch free performance is if you have support at the driver level, so one way or the other to get broad, reliable support you have to have nVidia and/or ATI onboard. Its still two images, so whether it is red-blue, LCD, or this technology, its really all basically the same as far as driver support goes.

unlike last years mits diamond sets,these use REALD processing inside. that and these are supposed to be 240hz meaning 2 120hz images vs last years 2 60 hz images.

also mits is coming out with a 3d blu ray player. (does anyone know if it was shown or talked about at ces yet?)
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Well, if BluRay is supposed to be pushing this technology, there is something wrong with this picture, since Sony=BluRay and Sony won't touch DLP with a 10 foot pole.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

Well, if BluRay is supposed to be pushing this technology, there is something wrong with this picture, since Sony=BluRay and Sony won't touch DLP with a 10 foot pole.

mits said they were talking with sony so sony can ad a firmware update to the ps3 to support 3d
and 3d will prob be in flat screens next year.
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post #27 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 09:27 AM
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So the guess is late 2008 release?
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post #28 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdnola View Post

mits said they were talking with sony so sony can ad a firmware update to the ps3 to support 3d
and 3d will prob be in flat screens next year.

I don't think that LCDs have the refresh rate to display alternating 120hz images. DLP is actually much faster as a technology and is ideally suited for this type of video trickery.
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post #29 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 09:35 AM
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I think Mitsubishi picked the right slogan "laserTV - Believing is seeing." Along that line of thought is the famous line "I'll believe it when I see it!" (regarding date these are available to purchase)

I also think the pricing comment "will retail over the price of current LCDs" is not very attractive to consumers. Most RPD's which this display resembles are cheaper then LCD's so what the incentive? 3D hardly.

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post #30 of 4189 Old 01-08-2008, 09:39 AM
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Well the quote saying it will be priced higher than current LCD technology is disappointing. I expected it to come out at 80-90% of whatever similar sized LCD or Plasma would cost. Even if the specs/images are better consumers have already let it be known that they will pay more for a thinner footprint display over pure quality of image. I think 10" footprint will still be too big to actually charge more and hope to recapture some of the market share.

I can't wait until reviewers actually get there hands on these units and can do some real comparisons. I'd also like to read over an official spec sheet. Has anyone found any thorough impression postings?


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