Would you consider CRT technology superior to LCD or Plasma? - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 286 Old 02-23-2012, 03:08 PM
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I don't really consider CRT tech to be superior to LCD and Plasma but then again, it depends on what one thinks is "superior".

If they made a 2inch deep, 60in CRT, that was the same weight as a Plasma or LCD at that size and it still had the picture quality of a great CRT set...then it'd be technologically superior.

I bought a 50in LG plasma tv to replace an old 27in HD Samsung CRT. And I don't miss that teeny 27in 4:3 set in the least. 2.35:1 cinemascope movies are tiny on a 4:3 27in set.

For those of you gung ho on CRT, I still have that Samsung CRT, anyone want to trade a 60in LED LCD for it?

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post #242 of 286 Old 02-24-2012, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyen78 View Post

I don't really consider CRT tech to be superior to LCD and Plasma but then again, it depends on what one thinks is "superior".

If they made a 2inch deep, 60in CRT, that was the same weight as a Plasma or LCD at that size and it still had the picture quality of a great CRT set...then it'd be technologically superior.


Indeed, everyone's idea of "superior" is different. Many people are bothered by the large depth and massive weight of CRT displays and are willing to pay a bit extra while losing some picture quality.

I, on the other hand, am not too bothered by this, despite the fact that I'm not the strongest guy in the world and I don't live in a particularly big place. The way I see it is a lot of my other AV components are almost as deep as, if not deeper than, my CRT TV (such as audio receiver, VCR, Blu-Ray player), and almost all that stuff is on the same piece of furniture. I also spend far more time watching television than I do moving the TV around.

Motion artifacts on even the newest LCD TVs (regardless if 60 Hz, 120 Hz, or 240 Hz) just distract me too much, as does the video scaling on them and plasmas.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

OVERALL the perfect TV would be to have the brightness levels, Pure whites, color gamut and clean/crispness of an LCD fused with CRT motion handeling and CRT or plasma black levels/contrast ratio's.


White purity is a bit subjective in my opinion (and dependent on lighting in the room), and CCFL bulbs yellow over time.

The FED displays sounded promising (and to a lesser extent the similar SEDs), offering the best of all worlds except for the lack of multisync capability, but if I recall correctly there were legal and manufacturing issues with them, and the display manufacturers had just invested so much in LCD and plasma technology that they were reluctant to immediately produce something that would put both to shame.
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post #243 of 286 Old 02-24-2012, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyen78 View Post

For those of you gung ho on CRT, I still have that Samsung CRT, anyone want to trade a 60in LED LCD for it?


Sorry, I don't have a 60" LED LCD TV!
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post #244 of 286 Old 02-24-2012, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P719C1 View Post


Sorry, I don't have a 60" LED LCD TV!

I'll go down as far as 55inches but no less

The main issue I have with CRT, and I do like the picture on it, is the size : price ratio. I know quite a few folks here who would never compromise on PQ just for size but I consider the size of the image as part of the PQ. I just can't get immersed in a movie when it's on a 27-36in set.

I can't believe that I paid more for that 27in samsung than I did for my 50in plasma or my 720p 3D projector. The samsung was around 900 bucks when I bought it, my current 3D LG plasma and my 3D projector were each around 750.

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post #245 of 286 Old 03-01-2012, 07:27 PM
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CTR is king for color accuracy, ability to display multiple resolutions properly, and black evels......no way around that but there are 2 problems that plasma and LCD elimate altogether besides reducing weight

1. geometry
2, weight per given size

LCD
Pros
perfect geometry
very light
best at resisting burn in

cons
has issues with black level performance - particularly in dark rooms
color accuracy


Plasma

Pros
Perfect geometry
pretty light
pretty good color accuracy

cons
susceptable to burn in
No way to fix set as it dims other than replace panel
poor performance in bright rooms

Strong or weak in the end we are all dead
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post #246 of 286 Old 03-02-2012, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai View Post

CTR is king for color accuracy, ability to display multiple resolutions properly, and black evels......no way around that but there are 2 problems that plasma and LCD elimate altogether besides reducing weight

1. geometry
2, weight per given size

Then it's just #1 as you said "besides reducing weight" so that excludes #2.

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post #247 of 286 Old 03-02-2012, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai View Post


Plasma

Pros
Perfect geometry
pretty light
pretty good color accuracy

cons
susceptable to burn in
No way to fix set as it dims other than replace panel
poor performance in bright rooms

Plasmas dim at a very slow rate Ive had my Kuro plasma since late 2007, it currently has over 17,000 hours yet still has plenty of contrast punch (definitely brighter than my 34XBR960 CRT).

Also worth noting that although LCD is better in bright rooms a Plasma is still brighter than a CRT in these conditions.

IMO Plasma is the most satisfying overall coming from CRT especially if you value black levels, smooth motion handling & wide viewing angles.
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post #248 of 286 Old 03-02-2012, 02:18 PM
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Yeah, plasmas dont dim that easily. As was the case with bad picture tubes, there are cases of bad plasma displays which dim very fast, but usually, panels will last over 10 years without dimming (over 20k hours easily).
My big problem with plasma is Burn-in. Repairing burn-in in a plasma is a hard job and requires a long time and the perfect inversion of what was burned.
Plasma is the only tech id take to replace my CRT, if only there was ANALOG multisync i think plasma would outsell lcd by far, but its just not happening with digital displays.
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post #249 of 286 Old 03-02-2012, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neccrttv View Post

Yeah, plasmas dont dim that easily. As was the case with bad picture tubes, there are cases of bad plasma displays which dim very fast, but usually, panels will last over 10 years without dimming (over 20k hours easily).
My big problem with plasma is Burn-in. Repairing burn-in in a plasma is a hard job and requires a long time and the perfect inversion of what was burned.
Plasma is the only tech id take to replace my CRT, if only there was ANALOG multisync i think plasma would outsell lcd by far, but its just not happening with digital displays.

I can't speak for all plasmas but my Kuro has seen probably seen more video game time than watching movies and burn in hasn't remotely been an issue (360 / PS3 / Wii), I treat it the same was as any CRT Ive owned.

Of course I use the Game video mode and never run Dynamic / Torch mode settings.

Ive read both Samsung & Panasonic models tend to have more temporary Image retention issues with gaming but nothing permanent.
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post #250 of 286 Old 03-02-2012, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

Then it's just #1 as you said "besides reducing weight" so that excludes #2.

sorry number 2 should have been power consumption for LCD

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post #251 of 286 Old 03-02-2012, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai View Post

sorry number 2 should have been power consumption for LCD

Yeah I joked on another thread that us money-constrained folks grabbing used CRTs might be able to recoup the money of a new set (~34") over several years in energy cost savings.

My Panasonic CT-34WX50 blows me away on whites, blacks, and color; I have to back off the settings, especially Picture (whites /sunglasses). Now mine may be somewhat mint as it was used by a car audio distributor for trade shows, too heavy/$ to ship around these days.

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post #252 of 286 Old 04-24-2012, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyen78 View Post

The main issue I have with CRT, and I do like the picture on it, is the size : price ratio.

Yes well when you stop and think sbout the BETTER QUALITY a crt provides,you can overlook those things!
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post #253 of 286 Old 04-24-2012, 09:49 AM
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I have had all the techs...and everything is a tradeoff. In the end, I don't like the noise on plasma's...and I just love the fact that no other display device has allowed me to enjoy movie content more than a crt. It delivers a higher sense of reality...or looking through a window than any of the other techs. Plasma is flat, and looks flat...and noisy. Lcd is cleaner, but has problems too..crt provides some degree of depth to the picture...it's smaller, but it just delivers....for me.

As for depth, bulk or weight...it's only an issue when you move it. Which shouldn't be that often.

Some may love the huge brightness of an lcd...and it is bright and it is huge...but it just doesn't deliver the sense of reality of watching a great crt.
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post #254 of 286 Old 04-24-2012, 03:16 PM
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One thing i greatly like about crt's is the ability to use light guns.

Format nuetral and loving it
hddvd=13(latest=flags of our fathers)
blu-ray=78(latest=afro samurai ressurection,weeds season 2,the descent)
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post #255 of 286 Old 06-18-2012, 02:32 AM
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I think EVERYTHING ABOUT A CRT i like!!!!!
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post #256 of 286 Old 06-21-2012, 04:49 AM
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Colors- I've had some problems with various crts trying to calibrate right with decoders all dysfunctional etc.when I first got LCD it seemed so easy to calibrate colors.

The viewing angles to me is where crts are FAR SUPERIOR to LCD.And CRT blows away LCD in motion performance on SOME tvs.

Geometry ive had a hard time calobrating just right on CRT,makes a big difference when done right as most CRT I've had the geometry was noticeably off.

Sound is a bit off with the speakers pointed down and reflecting off stand on LCD.Creating strange sound.

LCD has a lot of advantages but I'm using a CRT so still like CRT.
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post #257 of 286 Old 06-21-2012, 07:40 PM
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I was at a friend's recently and the glare off their LG LCD (I think LED backlit) was unbearable. Turn on a lamp and I could barely see the pic. Daytime with the blinds closed was terrible too (windows on sunny side of home and slatted type blinds). All I have are CRTs so I don't know what is normal in this condition with flat panels.

Yeah I've heard sound is not a strong point with flat panels since there's not much cabinet volume for speaker mounting. I know my Panny Tau CRT has awesome sound for a TV and I can see some sort of acoustical chambers for the speakers through the vent holes.

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post #258 of 286 Old 06-21-2012, 08:06 PM
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No it sounds like tinny crap!!!!!!!

Nothing good about them for sure!!
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post #259 of 286 Old 06-23-2012, 03:37 PM
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CRTs > Plasmas > LCDs
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post #260 of 286 Old 06-24-2012, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

I was at a friend's recently and the glare off their LG LCD (I think LED backlit) was unbearable. Turn on a lamp and I could barely see the pic. Daytime with the blinds closed was terrible too (windows on sunny side of home and slatted type blinds). All I have are CRTs so I don't know what is normal in this condition with flat panels.
Yeah I've heard sound is not a strong point with flat panels since there's not much cabinet volume for speaker mounting. I know my Panny Tau CRT has awesome sound for a TV and I can see some sort of acoustical chambers for the speakers through the vent holes.

I owned 2 lcds and never had any problem with reflection(maybe just had ones that ddnt reflect as much).
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post #261 of 286 Old 06-28-2012, 12:55 PM
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I've recently bought Mitsubishi 2070SB with 8200 hours on it for 70$. http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8126/2070sbcalibration.png
I did this calibration in 15 minutes. I will calibrate as soon as GammaX arrives smile.gif

P.S. Damn! I couldn't get such great results with my previous monitors or plasma TV.
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post #262 of 286 Old 05-07-2014, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benareeno View Post

I have had all the techs...and everything is a tradeoff. In the end, I don't like the noise on plasma's...and I just love the fact that no other display device has allowed me to enjoy movie content more than a crt. It delivers a higher sense of reality...or looking through a window than any of the other techs. Plasma is flat, and looks flat...and noisy. Lcd is cleaner, but has problems too..crt provides some degree of depth to the picture...it's smaller, but it just delivers....for me.


As for depth, bulk or weight...it's only an issue when you move it. Which shouldn't be that often.


Some may love the huge brightness of an lcd...and it is bright and it is huge...but it just doesn't deliver the sense of reality of watching a great crt.

Agreed. Every single Plasma that i've owned looks flat, dull and lifeless.....I've always compared them to my Sony wega CRT SDTV(Via compnent cables) mid 2000's model and my CRT has blown every single one of them out of the water. the CRT provides realistic depth, pop and a far more immersive picture with PERFECT motion to boot. Plasma on the other hand still suffers from motion blur(not as bad as LED/LCD), dithering, noisy picture, dirty wites, ABL and a unaturally flat picture. I'd rather settle for Full array LED at this point just to get a super bright picture with POP, 'white' whites, no ABL and a cleaner/crisper picture.

I truly miss my 32" Sony Wega KD Trinitron, which i gave up 3 years ago when i took the stupid HDTV plunge, which has been an absolute miserable ride since 2011. I've been through about 6 plasma's now(exchanging them here and there) Thankfully i picked up a 27" model of the previous Sony wega CRT i owned. Now I'm in HEAVEN. wink.gifbiggrin.gif it makes my panasonic S60 look like total trash in comparison. watching movies and playing games on my S60 just depresses me, where as on my CRT they come ALIVE, they're full of life, pop and offer Stability in the picture which no LED or Plasma can do(Motion blur, ABL, poor viewing angles)

I'm selling my 60" plasma and getting a FALD/full array 50" vizio(For Wii U & Bluray) for my living room, yet my CRT is still going to be my main display(DVD, VHS, NES, SNES, Atari 2600, N64, GCN & Wii) Seems like 'OLED' is going to be the only tech that will truly satisfy us CRT fan boys.

'Sony' CRT > Full Array LED > Plasma.....imo wink.gif
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post #263 of 286 Old 05-07-2014, 11:56 PM
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I think I agree...as much as I want to love plasma as it is an emissive technology, it's just too noisy.

lcd's are getting better and better...hopefully it won't be too long until they fully deliver.

One good thing about lcd is that I can buy an ultrawide display! Which I think is ultra cool smile.gif
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post #264 of 286 Old 05-08-2014, 08:06 AM
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What plasma models have you had Wave? The S60 is Panasonic's low end model and is bad compared with the ST60.

I agree LCDs have improved significantly over the last five years but the technology suffers from failings and to solve those failings would be very difficult.
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post #265 of 286 Old 05-08-2014, 08:51 AM
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There is a Sony 960 owner over on yonder thread who swears by his new Panny plasma, I believe it was a high-end VT60 model though.

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post #266 of 286 Old 05-08-2014, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homerging View Post

What plasma models have you had Wave? The S60 is Panasonic's low end model and is bad compared with the ST60.

I agree LCDs have improved significantly over the last five years but the technology suffers from failings and to solve those failings would be very difficult.

Dipping into 720p and entry level 1080p 'panasonic' plasma's is just a bad idea all together. I'd know first hand.lol But they're gamer friendly which is the ONLY reason i even bothered getting the low tier sets.
Still, their higher end models such as the ST60 for e still isn't bright enough for my needs. Oddly enough, my cousins older 50" Panny G10 is twice as bright as my S60 and has more pop sculpt to the picture. I might be wrong, but somebody mentioned in the AVS forum that some of panasonics earlier plasmas circa 09/10' were brighter.

I've owned the Samsung D450, LGPT350, Panasonic X5, Panasonic S30 and now the Panasonic S60, half of which i returned. These are all a mix of 720p and entry level 1080p sets. Maybe that's why i've been so disappointed. wink.gif
I would of went higher end, but again, higher end plasmas typically don't do well with input lag.....ST30 is an exception.
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post #267 of 286 Old 05-08-2014, 04:46 PM
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nothing about the higher end sets reduces the noise in the picture...
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post #268 of 286 Old 05-09-2014, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benareeno View Post

nothing about the higher end sets reduces the noise in the picture...

True, but the higher end sets are a little brighter, have less blur, more picture controls, anti glare filters ect. If i were forced into plasma, the only one i'd ever consider buying is the Samsung 8500. It can get twice as bright Vs the ST60.
Right now, i'm either going with the new 50" Vizio Full Array E series, or the new Toshiba 55" Full array L7400....Just waiting for a review to pop up on the Toshiba plus input lag results. Right now i'm happy using my CRT for movies and retro gaming. I just want an LED for Wii U & blurays, my CRT however is my main display since i have so many consoles hooked up to it hehe.
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post #269 of 286 Old 05-12-2014, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P719C1 View Post

The FED displays sounded promising (and to a lesser extent the similar SEDs), offering the best of all worlds except for the lack of multisync capability, but if I recall correctly there were legal and manufacturing issues with them, and the display manufacturers had just invested so much in LCD and plasma technology that they were reluctant to immediately produce something that would put both to shame.

FED spindt can be " multisync", working like CRT in "analog-mode", some links:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2138644&goto=nextnewest
Quote:
About the native resolution part: Through a Beyond3D thread I found a part of a Sony patent where it is described how their FEDs would be able to not only operate on a fixed native resolution, as each half of two adjacent "sub-pixel fields" in the emitter grid would work together to light the area in between two designated "sub-pixels" (or really dots) on the phosphor surface as I understand it.

Apparently this is a variation on the same technique that would be used for rectifying dead pixels, i.e. modifying which parts of the phosphor surface are targeted by the emitters and "varying field intensity" accordingly to compensate for lost brightness. This would mean, I take it, that even though FED monitors are technically known as fixed-pixel displays there would be no need for vile scalers to display different resolutions and that they would have a smooth, CRT-like look about them. I like them more already

FED Patent:

http://www.google.com/patents/US6559602?hl=en
Quote:
This creates the appearance of a greater resolution than is physically there, or in other words, creates a pseudo resolution. For example, by applying half-pixel addressing and varying the intensity level of the electron emission, an FED is created which appears to have much greater resolution that it actually has. Thus, such an FED will have a higher clarity than a fixed pixel conventional FED. Therefore, analog-like performance is created since the designer can obtain a variable resolution on a fixed pixel display. This is a departure from known FEDs, which provide fixed performance in resolution due to the fixed number of cathode sub-pixels (i.e., the fixed number of electron emitters 112 or emitter cones of FIGS. 1-3). This half-pixel addressing is similar to half pixel addressing techniques performed in CRT type devices employing an aperture grill design. Such an example of a conventional CRT including an aperture grill includes TRINITRON CRTs produced and commercially available from the Sony Electronics Inc., of Park Ridge, N.J. USA.
Quote:
Again, this half pixel addressing allows for a pseudo resolution that is analog-like in performance. It is generally noted the FIGS. 12A-12F are not necessarily drawn to scale, but drawn to illustrate the various addressing and driving techniques.
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post #270 of 286 Old 05-18-2014, 06:38 AM
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CRT trully it is still king, for quality dynamic images and yes - i would preffer a CRT instead a plasma or LCD screen if they woul have exactly the same size!


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