HDMI on any CRT TV with component inputs - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 74 Old 03-18-2011, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, I just made in 5 min a HDMI to YPbPr converter. Most HD CRT sets from Sony have the HDMI or DVI decoder as a separate board. If you look at these boards you will see that they only need a 5V supply and to short the MUTE to the ground and then you connect directly the Y PB PR pins to cables with their respective grounds and there! You have a HDMI, DVI on any TV that has component inputs and can multisync. I'll be adding a HDMI input on my NEC XP37+ soon!
My board is the Sony UD Board on a DA4 chassis CRT HDTV.
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post #2 of 74 Old 03-18-2011, 09:14 AM
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Wouldn't it be easier and safer (and maybe cheaper) for most non-tech owners just to add an HD Fury or other HDMI to RGB/Component converter? Not to mention the fact that many older CRT HDTVs do not have a DVI board so one would have to be found and purchased ($$), along with the power supply and enclosure. And the older DVI boards may not be HDCP compliant, making playback of Blu-Rays and other HD media problematic at best. I do admire your ingenuity, but this is a problem that has already been solved, with a number of different solutions available.

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post #3 of 74 Old 03-18-2011, 11:09 AM
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I'm curious as to how a digital video signal gets transcoded to a analog video signal as well as HDCP compliancy with just a few "jumpers". Perhaps it may be attainable with a PC and a PC monitor, but I wouldn't expect this to be a solution for everyone with a TV and associated peripherals.
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post #4 of 74 Old 03-18-2011, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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EDIT: This can be done by a non-tech using a D-board or if you know how to solder surface mount. As for signal level, check below for post on buffer.
The HD FURY PRO would be a better choice for non-techs since this way won't work with every TV.On the other hand being one is not needed. Problem is that the signal level is low out of the component output. Also, it will not work in 1080p since the DA4 chassis did not support 1080p (DVI to RGB converter on the UD board does not support 1080p)

It works perfectly fine with my NEC XP37+ since it supports 1080p (XBOX360, PS3, etc) or 720p in component.(Yes it does !!!) It also has a switch for High or Low level signal inputs. Too bad this board does not output in 1080p....

Cost is less than the HD Fury by a lot. A UD board on ebay is like given. For me it was free.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Sony-KP-51WS500-U...3#ht_994wt_698
Power supply 5V 500mA is not costly (I used a cell phone charger) and 40 ohm resistor from ground to MUTE pin is given at any electronic store. For wiring, strip a rca or component cable and solder wire to wire.
Works perfectly with PS3, XBOX360, DVD and Blu-Ray. No HDCP problem since the DA4 chassis was HDCP compatible (KD-34XBR960,etc,etc) and anyways it's converted to Component.

As far as skills required, being a tech is not needed. Wiring and soldering knowledge for sure but not much more.

Wires are:
1: 5V - Supply + - Connect to + of a 5V power supply
2: Reset - Not used
3: VGA - Not used
4: MUTE - 40 ohm resistor to any GND pin
5: GND - Connect to - of 5V supply
6: Pr - Component Red
7: GND
8: Pb -Component Blue
9: GND
10: Y - Component Green
11: GND - Other end of the 40 ohm resitor

12 and 13 are not connected to wires

As said, a TV with High or Low level inputs is needed.
Or somebody makes a non-inverting signal level amplifier. (Tech needed )
Any monitor NEC, Mitsubishi or maybe some other brands should have this switch.
For any one who wants a 480p, 1080i and 720p HDMI input on their monitor and save money, this is the way to go.

pics



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post #5 of 74 Old 03-29-2011, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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EDIT: See below for a even better buffer, TSH343
This is compatible to ANY Tv if you connect the output to a buffer like the TSH103 made by ST. It has 8 pins 3 - Ins 3-Outs 1-5Vsupply and 1 GND pin/s.
It is sold at digikey.ca and probably other places for less than two bucks.

Here is the wiring diagram http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.ph...3940tsh103.jpg


Note that this connects to the output of the UD board. for the complete datasheet :
http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHN...CD00170729.pdf

This chip will take the 1V signal from the Y, Pb and Pr output of the UD and bring it up to 2-3V, making it compatible with every HDTV with component inputs. I will post results as soon as finished product is completed. I have currently 2 of these UD boards wires to YPbPr cables.

As a side note, the P board (HDMI board) in AX1X chassis Sony Projection TV could also be used and has a buffer integrated in the board.
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post #6 of 74 Old 03-31-2011, 05:56 PM
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Does Sony have boards of this type that convert to RGBHV? I would not say this is a solution a non techy is going to be able to follow though. Sony sold SFP televisions outside of N America with RGBHV but without HDCP so naturally RGBHV would be prefered.
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post #7 of 74 Old 03-31-2011, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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There is a pin labeled vga on the board. I'll check it out to see if the output of the board does not change to rgb when that pin is used.
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post #8 of 74 Old 04-06-2011, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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It works perfectly! With the buffer mentioned above soldered to the output as described, I have 480p,720p and 1080i outputs in component (1080p was not accepted by the UD board). It is completely HDCP compatible, so that means I can rip ANY HDMI signal and send it to a recorder without having to worry. Part cost was less than 60 bucks (Mine was free except for 2.50$ + 8$ shipping buffer )
It has been tested on a projection TV and a LCD TV.
With the buffer, the signal level is just right and it should be compatible with ANY CRT, LCD, DLP. Plasma, Proj. that has component inputs.
Some things still need to be worked out like value of resistors on the output of the buffer and the like, but it works like a charm.

Parts used: Sony UD board (there is 2 types but both work)
TSH103 Buffer made by ST electronics which was soldered on a copper solder board(could use a bread board)
5 V power supply
component cable or jack, whatever you like
wires, soldering and free time

Pics. Note that I used the closed type UD board with integrated audio inputs.


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post #9 of 74 Old 04-10-2011, 11:29 PM
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neccrttv, several questions:
1. You mention a P board that is hdmi and has the buffer built in. Do you have specific model numbers or a place to buy this board?
2. The TSH103 that you mention, the data sheet specifies that it is for SDTV. It looks like it shows the max frequency response is 27MHz, and I think a 1080i signal is higher at 35MHz.
3. How do you know the P board has the built in buffer? Do you have the service manuals for these sets?

I've got an older Philips 30PW850H that only has 2 component inputs. I was looking at an HDFury, but I'd be out at least $180 or so for the HDFury2, more for the 3. If I can find this P board, I think that would be ideal, otherwise, I'll probably follow your hack and make my own. Wonder how easy/hard it would be to make a custom case for the board?

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post #10 of 74 Old 04-11-2011, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Response

1 and 3: The P board is the HDMI to Component board in the AX1X chassis made by Sony. Not much were made. I know some projection TV'S like the KP46WT520,
KP51WS520 and the KP57WS520 use this chassis. And yes, I have the service manual for this chassis with a descriptive schematic of the P board. There are more wires in the P board and it has an IC described as a buffer in the path of the signal. I'll post up more about that... That board could make an easier hdmi to Component box, but I think the wiring is different.
2: As for the TSH103, as specified, it's a low cost buffer IC. Since I don't need it for my TV I wanted to test it. The only reason it is needed is since the signal is only at 1V at the output of the UD board. A better buffer could be used.
This one would have been MUCH better.
TSH343. HDTV buffer 280mhz!!!
Cost: 3$
http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHN...CD00079537.pdf

Same wiring diagram, etc.. just MUCH better. Maybe I'll buy one and try it since I did notice that the image was not as good as without the buffer on my NEC CRT with integrated buffer.
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post #11 of 74 Old 04-11-2011, 07:47 PM
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Yeah, I found this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-KLV-S32A10-...item2eb13aa0ef
Part #: 1-862-614-11
And I found the schematic on page 107 of this doc:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/39959521/SONY-LCD-KLV-S32A10

Here's the page as an image:
Sony KLV-S32A10 P Board Schematic 4963x3509 pixels [imageshack.us]

Looks like it takes a 10.5v power supply on pins 4 and 5 of the 14 pin connector and pins 9-14 are the Y/Pb/Pr signals.

It has an FMS6418A video buffer:
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe.../datasheet.pdf

Seems like really an ideal solution. I'd need to find a 10.5v power supply and ideally a 3"x3" enclosure (from digikey, mouser, etc. it'll take forever to find a good one). Also would need to figure out the best way to break out the dc in and component out.

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post #12 of 74 Old 04-12-2011, 09:39 AM
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So, if I were to use the P Board I linked to above, there are a couple issues I may need help with. First, it looks like you'd need both a 10.5v and a 3.3v powersupply. Also, I'm not sure if the pins P87, P86, P85, and NMI on the 9 pin connector would need to be connected to anything.

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post #13 of 74 Old 04-12-2011, 11:41 AM
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Interesting, in all the pictures of the 1-862-614-11 boards I can find, the 9pin header isn't even soldered on the board, so it looks like it is some sort of debug interface, and probably wouldn't be needed. Just trying to decided if I want to order a board and give it a try.

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post #14 of 74 Old 04-12-2011, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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To answer your question. Yes, the 9 pin plug is a debug. I don't think it was even connected.
The P Board in the AX1X chassis is the same as yours with the same buffer. Differnce is that pin 5 in yours is 10.5V and mine is pin 1 with 9V and that signals are at different pins.
I think it should work without any resistors as needed in the UD board. I think just a 9V(10.5 in yours) supply would suffice.
My schematic of the P board has this pinout for the 14 pin connector

1: 9V
2: RESET
3: SCLK
4: SDAT
5: AGND (Audio GND)
6: Right
7: Left
8: GND
9: Pr
10: GND
11: Pb
12: GND
13: Y
14: GND

9 pin jack I believe is not needed.
1: DEBUG1
2: DEBUG2
3: P87
4: P86
5: P85
6: NMI
7: VCC 3.3V
8:RESET
9:GND

The UD board really had the advantage having it's own casing but with a small box and a chassis mount component jack you'd be in business since no other wiring of buffer, etc. is needed.

Try it out. At 30$, it's a given.
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post #15 of 74 Old 04-12-2011, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I just bought a TSH343 and will be testing it tomorrow. At 280mhz bandwidth, I don't think it will lose any signal quality
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post #16 of 74 Old 04-12-2011, 02:20 PM
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So, looks like mouser and digikey don't have 10.5v supplies. They have 10v or 11v. Do you think a 10v supply would work?

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post #17 of 74 Old 04-12-2011, 08:48 PM
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I was looking at the KDF-55WF655 Service Manual and the P board schematic. It looks almost identical to the schematic of the KVL-S32A10 posted above, but this one shows a 9V input voltage. On my PC at home, it's hard to compare side by side, I'll take a closer look at work tomorrow, but from first glance, it looks like I'll be able to use a more common supply than 10.5v.

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post #18 of 74 Old 04-12-2011, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Usually 1-2V over or under rated voltage will not be a problem. But be sure it is regulated. That means that if it's 10.5V Input P board , use a regulated 12V supply that measures 12V with a voltmeter when the supply has no load. (Unregulated 12V supply has 15-16V when not loaded.)
For the 9V rated P boards, any 9V from a cell phone charger, wireless phone charger, etc. will work. Most Samsung cellphone supplies are 9V. There's a connector with many pins but if you strip the wire you see that there's only 2 wires. + and -.
As said, there are 2 kinds of P board. I think the one with the 10.5V supply is a newer revision for newer TV's

The same with the UD board, there are 2 revisions. One has audio inputs. I used both.
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post #19 of 74 Old 04-12-2011, 09:33 PM
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Well, I ordered a P Board (1-862-614-11) from ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-KLV-S30A10-...item3cb1a8db7d

This one has the half metal cage and the 14pin jumper. That will be nice because I'll be able to just cut the jumper and solder to my connectors, and I won't have to worry about soldering to the board. Do you know if the 14pin jumper has a part number? Or where one could buy that jumper, if anyone else wanted to make their job easier? I'm going to get a chassis mount DC plug and some chassis mount RCA jacks and hopefully make something that could maybe pass for semi-professional looking. I think finding a case may be somewhat daunting.

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post #20 of 74 Old 04-14-2011, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Replaced the TSH103 with the TSH343 buffer which is made for HDTV and now the picture is perfect with no loss whatsoever.

As for the cable, I could not find any part number for the cable in my service manual.

Hope to see results with the P board!
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post #21 of 74 Old 04-14-2011, 02:29 PM
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I talked to a friend of mine that is an EE about the voltage, just to make sure. It looks like the components on the 10.5v line could all handle even higher than 12v, but there are several voltage dividers that feed back in to several of the components. He said running at 12v would probably work, but that he would use a 10v LDO or similar on the input voltage, and use a 15v or so wall wart. The easiest would probably to use the older revision that takes a 9v input. Oh well, adding the voltage regulator isn't all that complicated. I'll take pics and post how it went when I'm finished.

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post #22 of 74 Old 04-19-2011, 12:58 PM
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Just got the P board yesterday. Now, waiting on parts from digikey.

nec,
I was reading up on the HDFury and wondered if your UD board had any isses with centering or left shift? Also, the HDFury1&2 and by default 3, takes a video color 16-235 and expands that to 0-255. Do you know if these Sony boards pass the video signal un-altered, or does it expand the color depth?

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post #23 of 74 Old 04-20-2011, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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So far, no centering problems. These UD boards were 'made' for a HD TV. You won't have centering problems with the component signal if it was perfect on the sony it belonged to. As for the color depth, I'd assume the UD or P boards just convert the signal un-altered but hell, are you really going to notice that?

One thing I can say. I have tried the UD board on a PS3 component out (1080i) and it has even better quality image than when the TV is connected in HDMI directly to the PS3.(1080i over HDMI) It has the same quality as component directly on my XBOX on my NEC XP37+.
The only disadvantage of the UD board is that it doesn't support 1080p. Maybe the P board could, but I doubt it. On my XP37+, I don't use it for my XBOX since the XBOX supports 1080p over component, and so does the XP37+(Max res 2048x1536) but I'll have to try 720p at 120hz on the UD board in HDMI (which the XP37+ supports too ) With the 280mhz buffer, I don't think the buffer will be the limiting factor...
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post #24 of 74 Old 04-27-2011, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neccrttv View Post

So far, no centering problems. These UD boards were 'made' for a HD TV. You won't have centering problems with the component signal if it was perfect on the sony it belonged to. As for the color depth, I'd assume the UD or P boards just convert the signal un-altered but hell, are you really going to notice that?

Well, I may notice it if it clips the whites or blacks.

Anyways, I've got my digikey order... now waiting on my enclusure and some screws. The enclosure I got is listed here:
http://www.lmbheeger.com/products.asp?catid=3

I got the 4"x4"x2" in black. Digikey has this box, but only in unpainted (and they were backordered), so I ordered directly from the company.

Can't wait to get it all put together. I'll post pics and a complete part list when I'm done. I though I was going to get out for ~$60, but it will actually be closer to $80. I added it up, I ended up spending $20 just for shipping alone. You could get away for much cheaper if you've already got a box, power supply, and mounting screws.

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post #25 of 74 Old 05-27-2011, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Have you made your converter yet oryan_dunn?
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post #26 of 74 Old 05-27-2011, 12:52 PM
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No, I've had all the parts for some time. I just have had so much else going on. Perhaps I'll have a bit of time this weekend, but I'll be busy with the Indy 500.

Ryan

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post #27 of 74 Old 08-14-2011, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neccrttv View Post

Hey guys, I just made in 5 min a HDMI to YPbPr converter. Most HD CRT sets from Sony have the HDMI or DVI decoder as a separate board. If you look at these boards you will see that they only need a 5V supply and to short the MUTE to the ground and then you connect directly the Y PB PR pins to cables with their respective grounds and there! You have a HDMI, DVI on any TV that has component inputs and can multisync. I'll be adding a HDMI input on my NEC XP37+ soon!
My board is the Sony UD Board on a DA4 chassis CRT HDTV.

Hi, I just came across your old thread about a board that you made to convert HDMI to Component. I have a HPE371f comp. with HDMI and DVI-I outputs. My tv is a Sony KV27FS100L with CRT display with YPrPb inputs. I was wondering if you know if my tv would have a built in board like you mentioned. If not, I could make one like you did if it would work with my tv(I am good at soldering). Any input you could give me on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Thx Ron
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post #28 of 74 Old 08-14-2011, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Nope, your TV doesn't have the UD board at all. And its a SD TV and not even 480p compatible to boot even though there's a component input. The converters I made were all from HD sony sets. It can be from many different sets, it doesn't need to be a Sony, but the UD board found in the DA4 chassis and the AX1X chassis were much easier to work with.

I currently use the converters at my shop to test TV'S in HD when one arrives that has no HDMI and they work great.
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post #29 of 74 Old 01-29-2012, 07:46 PM
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I still haven't assembled mine, basically due to a lack of need. However, this looks interesting:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Edit: Wow, I didn't realize, I may hit a year of the stuff sitting in my den.

Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime
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post #30 of 74 Old 02-13-2012, 09:50 PM
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Well, I got the case drilled out and everything all soldered together, took a few pictures of it, plugged it in... nothing. After some troubleshooting, It seems I blew the fuse (or it was blown from ebay, but most likely my fault). It's a 1A 32V fuse, and the switching power supply I bought was a 12V 1A max output. I'm thinking it was just a bit much. So, I'm going to put in an order to digikey for a 12V 600mA supply (perhaps a 9V 600mA?), and a few more SMD fuses. I'll have to have one of my friends who is much better at soldering than I to replace the fuse.

Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime
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