Raster Bowing on XBR800 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 17 Old 06-01-2011, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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As the attached pictures show, I've got quite severe bowing on the lower left side of the screen that isn't mirrored on the right side (there is some but not nearly as much) and I can't seem to correct it with the service menu adjustments. Is this one of those things that can only be fixed with magnets, or is there something I'm missing that I can tweak to fix this?

There's also some pincushion problems at the top and bottom (not really noticeable in the pictures as I hadn't reduced the VSIZ enough). I can only seem to get either the top OR bottom straight-ish, using VCEN and VPIN, but that doesn't really notice as much in normal use as the side bowing does.





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post #2 of 17 Old 06-10-2011, 09:43 PM
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Alot of that should be fixable via the geometry controls in the SM. It can be a little tricky tho since many of those controls interact.

You may also find that fixing the geo for one signal messes up the geo for another (a problem I don't have to deal with since I only use 1080i on my TV).

I'll look thru the notes on my 34XBR800 tho and see if I can give you any tips. Try also running a search on likely SM codes here. That may bring up some tips/advice as well.

If you really wanna get things straight as possible, a ruler will help (no joke).

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post #3 of 17 Old 06-11-2011, 01:03 PM
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post #4 of 17 Old 06-11-2011, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks ADU. I certainly haven't been able to find any SM geometry controls that are able to straighten out the left-hand side of the screen.
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post #5 of 17 Old 06-17-2011, 06:52 PM
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Sorry for the delay. Got stuck in a wormhole there for a bit.

I would start with VBOW and/or LBOW in category 2170D-2 in the SM.

If you can't get the sides of the screen pretty straight with one or both of those controls, then try to make the distortion as symmetrical as possible with VBOW and LBOW, so both sides are bowing slightly outward, or slightly inward. Then you can probably fix the remaining bowing with PIN, or possibly MPIN. It's been awhile since I tinkered with the geo on my 34XBR800, but I believe PIN is the main pincushion adjustment for the sides of the screen (which effects the corners most), and MPIN adjusts the pincushion effect more in-between the corners on the sides of the screen.

Bear in mind that most controls in the SM are context-sensitive, and store more than one value depending for example on the signal, zoom mode, picture mode, etc. So write down all the original values for these controls before you start changing them.

VBOW and LBOW appear to be "global" controls (ie, they only store one setting for all modes on my TV). PIN and MPIN appear to store two settings, one for the WIDE ZOOM mode on the TV, and another setting for everything else. It's possible things might work a little differently though on your TV because your 36XBR800 is a 4:3 set and my 34XBR800 is 16:9.

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post #6 of 17 Old 06-17-2011, 08:39 PM
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You might try this...

Set VBOW to 31. Then adjust LBOW (starting around 31) until the sides are symmetrical.

Might work, or might not on your TV.

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post #7 of 17 Old 06-18-2011, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Cheers, I'll try all that and let you know how I get on.

My 36XBR800 is a 16:9 set but I never use anything other than FULL mode anyway, as it's only used with my PC and consoles, which lock it in that mode.
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post #8 of 17 Old 06-18-2011, 04:29 PM
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That may be the same tube as on my "34-inch" set then. (I think stuff gets measured a little differently here.)

I tried the above controls out on my TV, and I think VBOW and/or LBOW are the controls you're probably lookin for to fix the bowing on the left side of the screen. You may be able to fix the issue with just VBOW alone, because the effect of LBOW is more subtle.

On my TV, VBOW=31 and LBOW=40 (hence the previous suggestion). I've tweaked these and many of the other geo controls on my TV though, so there's a good chance my settings won't work on yours.

A couple patterns that may help you see and correct the distortion a little more easily (sorry I don't have any PAL format handy at the moment).

Grid sized for 2.5% Overscan...



Grid sized for 5% Overscan...


LL
LL

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post #9 of 17 Old 06-18-2011, 04:40 PM
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It looks like the raster on your set is slightly tilted as well. There should be a TILT control in the regular USER menus to tweak that. (On my TV the control is under SETUP.) Or, if you need finer control (or prefer to leave the User Menu Tilt control at 0), I believe 2170D-1 NSCO can be used to adjust that as well.

You can probably also fix the slight upward bow on the top and bottom of the screen with 2170D-1 VCEN.

Both of the above controls (2170D-1 NSCO & VCEN) are global on my TV, and only store one setting each. Just be sure to write down all the original settings before making changes.

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post #10 of 17 Old 06-21-2011, 12:32 PM
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I think that VCEN has a nasty habit of shifting the position of the image vertically, so fixing that slight upward bow may requiring tweaking a couple other controls as well. If you want some ideas on how to go about that, just say so.

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post #11 of 17 Old 06-25-2011, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the tips ADU. I just haven't had a chance to tweak the set properly yet, although I think I've improved it somewhat with LBOW/VBOW. I think you were right about the TILT as well, as adjusting that seemed to help.

I'll post again when I've managed to have a real go at tweaking it
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post #12 of 17 Old 05-27-2015, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU View Post
Alot of that should be fixable via the geometry controls in the SM. It can be a little tricky tho since many of those controls interact.

You may also find that fixing the geo for one signal messes up the geo for another (a problem I don't have to deal with since I only use 1080i on my TV).

I'll look thru the notes on my 34XBR800 tho and see if I can give you any tips. Try also running a search on likely SM codes here. That may bring up some tips/advice as well.

If you really wanna get things straight as possible, a ruler will help (no joke).

Notes? You have NOTES on the KV-XBR800 TV?


Wow. Would those include any commentary on power supply capacitors that lead to warmup problems or general color quality degradation on this unit over time??


Thanks.


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post #13 of 17 Old 05-30-2015, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auburn Boy View Post
Notes? You have NOTES on the KV-XBR800 TV?


Wow. Would those include any commentary on power supply capacitors that lead to warmup problems or general color quality degradation on this unit over time??


Thanks.


Auburn Boy.

Regrettably no. The only color degradation issues I can speak to would be changes in the TV's white balance due to uneven wear/aging of the phosphors, which could be corrected via the TV's grayscale controls (RGB "drives" and "cuts") in the service mode.

The XBR800s also have an anti-glare filter that's bonded to the screen with a rubber cement-like adhesive, which may also yellow over time. I never liked the filter though, so I removed it. And you can get an idea of the difference in color with and without the filter (and the adhesive that bonds it to the screen) here...

Pix of my Sony 34XBR800

The filter itself had a slightly greenish cast, similar to polarized sunglass lenses.

I consigned my 34XBR800 to the recycling heap not too long ago, but never had any issues with the capacitors or power-ups, in the 12+ years that I used it. I was pretty gentle with the TV though. And used it mainly at night in a dimly lit room for watching movies (with the Contrast settings configured quite low in the service mode). So there wasn't much "wear and tear" on the TV. The picture probably looked better on the TV when I got rid of it than when I bought it new, because I spent quite a bit of time tweaking all the color, geometry, convergence, etc. controls in the service menu to get it looking as good as possible for my own viewing.

Posting some pictures of your issues in one of the capacitor-related threads for this TV might help to jog someone else's memories re some of the problems you're having. I think alot of folks finally gave up on their XBRs though, and either went plasma, or LCD/LED.

Newer "VA" and "FALD" LEDs have greatly improved contrast and blacks over conventional fluorescent backlit LCDs, esp. at optimum viewing angles. And the late model Samsung and Panasonic plasmas both produced very CRT-like images to my eyes, with very respectable (though not quite CRT-like) blacks. I tried "open-box" examples of both in my home before they all disappeared, and liked them pretty well. The main reason I decided not to get a plasma was burn-in. For folks on a budget though, the 1080p Samsung 51F5300(B), and 720p 43F4500, and Panasonic 50S60 and 42S60 (both 1080p) all produced very nice CRT-like pictures, with great angle of view*.

The new 2015 Samsung JS8500 4K LEDs also look pretty good to me in stores. But they ain't cheap! And are only 120Hz, despite their 240 "motion rating". (Higher refresh rates of 240Hz and above produce better-looking motion on LEDs imo.)

(*A shortcoming on many VA LEDs.)

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Last edited by ADU; 05-30-2015 at 01:24 PM.
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post #14 of 17 Old 07-20-2015, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU View Post
Regrettably no. The only color degradation issues I can speak to would be changes in the TV's white balance due to uneven wear/aging of the phosphors, which could be corrected via the TV's grayscale controls (RGB "drives" and "cuts") in the service mode.

The XBR800s also have an anti-glare filter that's bonded to the screen with a rubber cement-like adhesive, which may also yellow over time. I never liked the filter though, so I removed it. And you can get an idea of the difference in color with and without the filter (and the adhesive that bonds it to the screen) here...

edit: delete LINK..,

The filter itself had a slightly greenish cast, similar to polarized sunglass lenses.

I consigned my 34XBR800 to the recycling heap not too long ago, but never had any issues with the capacitors or power-ups, in the 12+ years that I used it. I was pretty gentle with the TV though. And used it mainly at night in a dimly lit room for watching movies (with the Contrast settings configured quite low in the service mode). So there wasn't much "wear and tear" on the TV. The picture probably looked better on the TV when I got rid of it than when I bought it new, because I spent quite a bit of time tweaking all the color, geometry, convergence, etc. controls in the service menu to get it looking as good as possible for my own viewing.

Posting some pictures of your issues in one of the capacitor-related threads for this TV might help to jog someone else's memories re some of the problems you're having. I think alot of folks finally gave up on their XBRs though, and either went plasma, or LCD/LED.

Newer "VA" and "FALD" LEDs have greatly improved contrast and blacks over conventional fluorescent backlit LCDs, esp. at optimum viewing angles. And the late model Samsung and Panasonic plasmas both produced very CRT-like images to my eyes, with very respectable (though not quite CRT-like) blacks. I tried "open-box" examples of both in my home before they all disappeared, and liked them pretty well. The main reason I decided not to get a plasma was burn-in. For folks on a budget though, the 1080p Samsung 51F5300(B), and 720p 43F4500, and Panasonic 50S60 and 42S60 (both 1080p) all produced very nice CRT-like pictures, with great angle of view*.

The new 2015 Samsung JS8500 4K LEDs also look pretty good to me in stores. But they ain't cheap! And are only 120Hz, despite their 240 "motion rating". (Higher refresh rates of 240Hz and above produce better-looking motion on LEDs imo.)

(*A shortcoming on many VA LEDs.)
Thanks for the reply Adu!

After I have enough posts under my belt, I'll try to pos a picture of the color warmup problem I'm having.

I managed to bring this set back from the 6/7 blink code failures several times now, and the picture still looks great. (After it warms up..,)

Maybe I'll try here..,

Nope, not yet.
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post #15 of 17 Old 07-24-2015, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Auburn Boy View Post
Thanks for the reply Adu!

After I have enough posts under my belt, I'll try to pos a picture of the color warmup problem I'm having.

I managed to bring this set back from the 6/7 blink code failures several times now, and the picture still looks great. (After it warms up..,)

Maybe I'll try here..,

Nope, not yet.
Here are a couple of pictures of the effect I'm seeing on warm-up of the 34XBR800:
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Last edited by Auburn Boy; Yesterday at 09:09 PM.
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post #16 of 17 Old Yesterday, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auburn Boy View Post
Here are a couple of pictures of the effect I'm seeing on warm-up of the 34XBR800:
Hello again. I might have a lead on the distortion I'm seeing in the color saturation upon powering up this beast..,



Sony 34XBR800 - Screen goes bright red then off !!
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post #17 of 17 Old Today, 12:00 PM
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Serious question, have you tried contacting a TV repair shop, locally? If you can locate one that has been in business for 10 years or more, you could find the person you need to identify this problem and fix it for you, for having the tools, training, and experience to do these things.

It is not impossible for an amateur to find the source of problems in a CRT and fix them on their own. But I'm actually looking at these photos and having a tough time figuring out what the problem even is, I would tend to think that would make diagnosing this issue a lot tougher even in person.

When I acquired older CRTs I would catalogue capacitors and replace them. I even revived a few non-working CRTs I picked up from the street (out of the rain, no less) this way. After a while I got around to recapping all my other CRTs, even the ones I'd had for years and bought retail myself. It fixed the geometry on at least two of them, and I'll be damned if they all didn't have a much brighter appearance. But this is not short work, and probably not something you want to start out doing on your own, either. Which is another reason that I'd caution you, seriously, to seek the help of a professional before doing anything else. Capacitors from the era these later tubes were made in weren't typically the best, and a lot of them had a propensity to weaken before now, so it could be the case that you are dealing with something like this, but it as easily could be a bad regulator or other part that needs to be worked over, simpler than giving your logic board a root canal.
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