Samsung TX-N3071WHF -v- TX-P3071WH TG,TB,&TU - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 6 Old 12-13-2011, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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The short of it: The TXN is an all analogue set w/o any digital inputs and a NTSC tuner. The TXP has DVI w/HDCP and an ATSC tuner.

I just scrounged a nice N and was completely stunned with the S-Video performance. So this was going to be a keeper for a good while as long as I was concerned. Then I started vacillating over whether to invest in a tuner and perhaps a problematic HDMI to Component converter OR get another TV with HDCP and tuner.

So I found, amazingly, the P model only days after I got the N. The P was also cheap like the N and I also had found someone who would buy my N so I figured it was a slam dunk to get the P model. So I sold the N and bought the P and dragged it home.

Little did I know...

Much to my horror, it appears the P uses a Trinitron tube which I hate with a passion because I can see the vertical pixel lines even 4' from the monitor. The N had a computer grade dot matrix that was nearly invisible at 2'. Even with HD sources, the P model seems like there is this blurry cloud over the whole image when compared to the N running an S-Video source. I can only imagine what the N would have looked like with 1080i component input.

But in the Trinitrons defense, the black levels seemed superior.

In conclusion, I was truly disappointed.

The digital tuner in the P is inferior to a Channel Master CM7000 DTV converter box and frankly, with the C-M S-video output, the N had very good image quality which was quite watchable.

NOTE: I have not confirmed it, but I think the P splits out the DD5.1 through the back panel optical jack which is a huge plus compared to the N.

Of course now, I have the ability to watch HD OTA however, I can't get my most important channel which carries Steeler football games.

I just can't win.

Double Ironically, there is yet another Samsung locally for sale which is a newer 32" SlimFit model with the image geometry issues as discussed to length in many forums. I wonder how it would rate in the above things I have noticed? My guess is that all subsequent Samsungs will use the Trinitron tube, however, maybe, just maybe, they went back to a computer monitor dot matrix for the SlimFit. If that was the case and I could get that fabulous N sharpness, I would completely embrace the geometry issues. I'd bet the digital tuner would even be better.

I think these CRT sets are really a tremendous amount of performance for the $50 giveaway prices they are sold for. There is absolutely nothing inferior about them in that size class other than the fact they they are big heavy boxes. But keep in mind the Samsung is not really that heavy - it probably weighs about 70 lbs. And I'll bet a lot of them will work for 20 years after purchase. I'd like to see a flat panel still standing after 20 years.

I'd be interested to see if anyone else has seen what I have seen and if there might be some advice on which CRT sets are really the best because as far as I'm concerned, newer is not necessarily better.

Thanks in advance,
Tom
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post #2 of 6 Old 12-14-2011, 06:35 AM
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The TX-P Samsungs were all-around not that great.. a lot of adjustments have to be made to make it perfect, be it for HD and SD. A good analogue set in S-Video is much more precise than people expect it to be.
Most of those digital sets from Samsung and also Panasonic have a worse quality image than the previous Analog model.
The Tau series HD CRT's were horrible compared to the previous year's SD set of the same series. This was due to horrible scalers that converted everything to 1080i. Like you said, it looked like there was a haze on the screen or a film covering it. The TX-P series is the same compared to TX-N.

Also, i understand u on not liking Trinitron tubes. The lines holding the grill are easily visible in those Samsung sets. I use a Invar mask 36" CRT monitor as my main TV. Apart from being able to display 1080p, 720p@120hz and 1536p it has no lines at all.
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post #3 of 6 Old 12-14-2011, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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neccrttv, Thanks for the extreme information!

When I say Trinitron, I'm using it like you say give me a crescent wrench.

Any monitor with a rectangular dot pitch where you can see a distinct vertical line for each RGB group I call a "Trinitron."

The TX-N had a triangular circular dot pitch that was extremely fine. The TX-P had a very large "Trinitron" dot pitch.

You compared the Panasonic HD Tau as being inferior to the previous year's SD tube which is quite a depressing statement.

And then you comment that the TX-P had the same relationship with the TX-N. My comment on this is that the TX-N was actually an analog HD set.

You mention TX-P adjustments and I'm wondering what they might be.

I am a perfectionist when it comes to convergence, but my opinion of the P is that its not an issue of getting the RBG beams converged, but rather, a problem between the shadow mask and the dot positions. Further, the dots are simply too big.

However, if there are things that can be tweaked to improve the image, I am all ears for that. If yes, now much of an improvement can be made?

Of course, that leads to the next question? Are any of the Samsungs any good? (I wish I had seen my TX-N w/1080i component input...) And if not, it sounds like a Panasonic cannot be trusted either, so who then? There is a LG SuperSlim 30FS4D locally available but they are asking $145 which I think is too much.

Thanks
Tom

My biggest concern right now is the tuner issue.
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post #4 of 6 Old 12-14-2011, 09:10 AM
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What i meant is that the analog sets are much better than the HD sets, at least as far as the TX-P is concerned!

Analog HD sets are much better than digital ones most of the time.

Are u really sure its Analog? Im pretty sure it converts all things to 1080i as all these HD CRT's do. The specs say it has a digital Comb filter. Even if it doesnt have HDMI or DVI or a ATSC tuner it can be digital.

Some scalars are better than others may i remind u, so the TX-N could be way better than a later model, or worse as in the case of some Tau's.
I've seen both happen.

The tube is a big importance in picture quality. If the pixels are too large.. its simply awful, even in HD.
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post #5 of 6 Old 12-14-2011, 09:25 AM
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As for tweaks.. well theres many things that can be done.. either u calibrate the TV in the Service menu for geometry issues. There is much information on the net for these Samsungs. Although.. if u don't have much experience with adjustment i can tell u to be careful.. these Samsung sets save any change immediately.. if u mess up in the SM its over. Thats why its important to read info on there service menu and write any value down before modifying it.

Remember that your TX-N is a 1080i set. It must be great in component. Try to send a HD source from your Xbox (using the component cables and setting up output to 1080i) and see the pic.
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post #6 of 6 Old 12-14-2011, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Rats,

Unfortunately, I sold the TX-N and then got the TX-P.

I never saw 1080i on the N. Also, I used the term "analog" loosely meaning if the set had no digital inputs, then I concluded it was "analog."

But even if I kept the TX-N, I would still have to buy a
  1. HD tuner and a
  2. HDMI to Component Converter for BluRay or DVD Upconvert

So my plan of "on the cheap" would not work.

If I took that money for all those pieces, I could probably get a flat panel that would do the same thing.

So, even thought the TX-N is gone, I do have the TX-P which does get HD OTA but only via a poor tuner. While I haven't tried it, I'm assuming the DVI will work with DVD and BR HDMI outputs. (Of course there could be HDCP issues with an "old" DVI set???)

If the TX-P could match the CM-7000 and I could get all my channels, I could live with the inferior HD quality until I could do my next upgrade.

_______________________


As far as cleaning up geometry issues with the TX-P, it really doesn't have any that concern me. The killer is that it has to be the gross dot pitch of the tube. I measured 13 dot groups per 10mm for approximately .75mm per group and .25mm per individual pixel. I was just marveling at how you can see the vertical group lines even 6' from the set. You can see the resulting distortion of small print when rendered. Ugh, its hideous.

__________________________

I have to so some antenna experiments to see if I can get my channels with the antenna located else where on my .33 acres at ground level. To complicate the antenna issues, I have an old Alliance rotor which still works but I can't find the control box for it. Maybe I should consider buying a new rotor with a remote. At least I would be buying something that is new.


Thanks for all the info
Tom
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