Please Bring back CRT TV's Into the Production line Again! - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 250 Old 08-26-2012, 11:47 AM
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Also love the PQ on my heavy 34" widescreen HD Panny but I understand the transistion. For now my seating is close to the TV and I haven't been around much to others' places to get too used to the giant screens. But one friend has an LG LCD and the reflections were unbearable, so bad I can't give a fair PQ assessment of the set; they even closed the blinds (horizontal louver) although they're on the sunny side of the room.

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post #32 of 250 Old 08-26-2012, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcorban View Post

The plasma also has image retention, dithering, buzzing, fixed resolution, phosphor lag, and potential burn-in.
The only issue I personally have with CRT is the geometry. People always bring up "size" or "weight" or even "power consumption". This is meaningless. The size and weight of the set is inconsequential, since you place it somewhere and don't move it. The screen size of a 32" or 36" is fine. It wasn't until 16x9 became ubiquitous that tubes couldn't keep up in size. Power consumption is not a concern, not when you have two dozen other devices in your house constantly drawing standby power for trivial purposes.
CRTs were just too much of a hassle for the manufacturers, not consumers. The fact that CRTs were pushed out of market by vastly inferior LCD panels shows us the truth. Most consumers fell for the marketing or just didn't care, and manufacturers benefitted from it.

Crt's buzz and show color breakup as well, they are also susceptible to burn in though I don't think it was as big a problem as it was with early plasmas. Modern plasmas are much more risilient to burn in, to the point where it isn't a problem anymore for most situations.

The fixed resolution of plasmas an lcds is higher than most crt's. Interlacing was implemented to achieve a high resolution on many crt's but it only effects vertical resolution, very few consumer direct view crt hdtvs are capable of more than 1000x1080i with the high end Sony's reaching up to around 1400x1080i and the majority of other brands hitting 800-1000x1080i
Interlaced resolutions are also slightly softer to help mitigate the percieved flickering when viewing fine lines.

My personal gripes with crt hdtv's are upkeep regarding convergence and geometry, a softer image usually due to a lower resolution and the pixel structure, usually a lower static or ansi contrast ratio (most noticeable in scenes with equal light and dark portions), a slight risk of implosion and the not yet fully understood effects of electromagnetic radiation, and the aforementioned size and weight (has more signifigance when you have to move your 240lb tv rather than having it delivered).

I have to agree that nothing was better about lcds when they first hit other than power draw. If i remember correctly lcds first arrived in the form of rear projection tv's which were themselves bulky and subject to lower static contrast and other flaws inherent to rear projection.
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Originally Posted by whiskeycat View Post

I agree let's keep our CRT Tv's...I used to work in a tv repair shop and I can tell you it's much easier and cheaper to fix an old CRT tv.
I have a Toshbia CRT with a convertor box hooked up to it and the picture is really amazing...I've seen Vizio LCD tv's that were only 1 year old coming into the shop for repair. LCD tv's don't last very long and they can be expensive to fix.
I'm not saying we shouldn't buy an LCD tv but it dosen't make sense to throw out our CRT sets if they are still working. I plan to have an LCD in the front room and keep my CRT set in the bedroom. It's not a bad idea to buy an extended warranty on these new sets to protect yourself if you do have a problem.

Better Brands usually equal better reliability, Vizio is a budget brand.
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post #33 of 250 Old 08-29-2012, 11:12 PM
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All of you have made very good points on this thread. Honestly, I just have to pick CRTs because of their long lifespan,reliability and picture quality. I would want a television that can last for a good long while and has great picture quality without getting any major costly problems. CRTs also have excellent viewing angles when compared to an LCD. I have a Sharp CRT television that still works 15 years later and a Compaq monitor that's 11 years old.
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post #34 of 250 Old 09-03-2012, 09:24 AM
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My grandparents had an rca crt going for around 30 years with 8-10 hours a day use biggrin.gif There seems to be quite a variance though any crt's ive owned only last around 10 years. Any technology that hasn't been retired is quite reliable as well, modern lcds, led lcds, and plasmas will probably be working 20 years down the line.
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post #35 of 250 Old 09-03-2012, 04:42 PM
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quote name="Ratman" url="/t/1423003/please-bring-back-crt-tvs-into-the-production-line-again#post_22338800"]Reminds me of someone that still has an Edsel in the driveway. smile.gif[/quote]

Hey, I'm OLD, get over it! I'd LOVE to have a cherry Edsel in my driveway. It would beat the hell out of my Mexican Mazda. I don't like new technology and refuse to adopt it. tongue.gif
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post #36 of 250 Old 09-03-2012, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bringbackcrttv 
Please Bring back CRT TV's Into the Production line Again!

Sadly i think too many people have bene brainwashed/reprogrammed chris to think this NEW GARBAGE is better......

Very sad isnt it??
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post #37 of 250 Old 09-05-2012, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 View Post

Sadly i think too many people have bene brainwashed/reprogrammed chris to think this NEW GARBAGE is better......
Very sad isnt it??

No, it's just some of us don't look through the past in rose colored glasses. No technology is perfect and that includes crt hdtvs. And new tech is world's better than it was five years ago when crt's were discontinued in this country.
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post #38 of 250 Old 09-05-2012, 02:00 PM
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My Nec XP37 Xtra just broke down, after 13 years of service... and i'm on my way to repair it, cause no other technology comes CLOSE to this kind of 15000$ MSRP CRT monitor.
Being a tv repairman and having calibrated many plasma, lcd, dlp, lcd proj., crt and crt projection tv's, i can assure you that nobody here knows the true capabilities of CRT like i do.
First of all, perfect geometry on a CRT (Yes lol, on a 36"... ) Geometry errors are there cause CRT manufacturers like Sony don't even bother with geometry... they stick some magnets at the back and assume it'll pass inspection.
Second : Perfect convergence even at 1600x1200 or at 2048x1536. These monitors achieve these resolutions and make fun of fixed panel techs these days.
Its completely multisync, so even light guns work cause its compatible with ANY resolution from 320x240 lol to 2048x1536 in full progressive and even higher in interlaced. 720p at 120hz so its 3d capable with a PS3 or a PC which displays twin 60hz 720p images.
Perfect blacks, pure white and NO jitter, noise, etc etc.

Have you ever looked at your tv up close and noticed tons of pixels buzzing around and lots of digital noise? Well, a good monitor has none of this and displays true colors and can take anything you can throw at it. None of you guys truly know how much resolution the WII, the N64 and all those older consoles had until you plug them on a true multisync monitor.

If there was one type of tv id gladly pay for new, it would be a nice ANALOG presentation monitor capable of 1080p + like the NEC XP29's and 37's. (Of course, i wouldnt pay twice the retail price lol.... these tv's often sold for 25000$ US.... with them still going for over 1000$ USED these days....)
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post #39 of 250 Old 09-08-2012, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhufnagel 
And new tech is world's better than it was five years ago when crt's were discontinued in this country.

Its sad that you cant see what the better is...... Its ppl who dont know whats better IS THE REASON things are going to crap... (In my opinion)
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post #40 of 250 Old 09-09-2012, 06:35 PM
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Its sad how incredibly biased you are biggrin.gif
There are of course some things crt's just aren't very good at, sure a 15000$ monitor will help close the gap but the average CRT has some clear faults when compared to other technology and modern technology has improved considerably.
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post #41 of 250 Old 09-10-2012, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 View Post

Its sad that you cant see what the better is...... Its ppl who dont know whats better IS THE REASON things are going to crap... (In my opinion)

Oh, I can see all right. And at a much farther distance than I could using a small crt tv! wink.gif
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post #42 of 250 Old 09-10-2012, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

Its sad how incredibly biased you are biggrin.gif
There are of course some things crt's just aren't very good at, sure a 15000$ monitor will help close the gap but the average CRT has some clear faults when compared to other technology and modern technology has improved considerably.

Exactly. Sadly.... we shall never see again good quality crt's since no company will ever again be willing to make a close to perfect CRT like Mitsubishi and Nec did.

Most people nowadays don't care however better a tech is compared to another. Most people just prefer having a big screen even if it has clear disadvantages. Plasma tech is very very good these days and CRT's are just so costly and hard to manufacture that nobody bothers with them.

The only companies interested would be ones who make arcades, etc. Only there would it be worth it.

I for myself, cannot endure LCD, neither can my wife. Causes motion sickness, headaches and red eyes every time we watch one for more than 2-3 hours (and lol its not 240hz silly advertising that will change the fault of the tech.)
Plasma would be the only way to go... but when you are used to watch a 36" from 4-5 feet... you can't stand the digital noise, etc etc from plasmas and lcd's at that distance. (especially when most plasmas are 42'' up)
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post #43 of 250 Old 09-10-2012, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

And what's ironically funny is your post combined with your avatar image. smile.gif

eek.gifwink.gif
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post #44 of 250 Old 09-11-2012, 02:05 PM
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Not to sound trollish or anything I've always been a die hard CRT fan and ran PC CRTs all the way til late 2010 (a 24" Sony FW900 CRT which unfortunately died), but I currently own a Sony 34XBR960 CRT & a Pioneer 5080HD Kuro plasma from 2007 and I'm very satisfied with the Plasmas picture quality, in fact it has a brighter picture and higher ANSI contrast ratio than the XBR960, along with excellent & satisfying black levels (Of course the XBR960 also has excellent black levels and it does edge out the plasma in color accuracy).

Check out the newer 2012 Panasonic Plasmas such as the ST50 or VT50 models, The ST50 is the cheaper of the two but both models are regarded as the best you can buy right now in terms of overall picture quality and they don't cost an arm and a leg (especially the ST50), Also remember Plasma & CRT both share Phosphor based technology unlike LCD.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that when it comes to PC monitors I'd still take an FW900 CRT over anything out there currently. IMO Plasma's are too big to use as a primary PC monitor and I haven't come across any PC LCDs that can truly replace an FW900, especially when it comes to black levels and motion resolution with gaming.
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post #45 of 250 Old 09-11-2012, 02:52 PM
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And that's not even the best the kuro line had to offer, the second gen went from around 0.03 mll (black level) to 0.0005-0.001 mll (getting to CRT level) and the ANSI contrast is definetly a point for plasma over CRT.
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post #46 of 250 Old 09-12-2012, 05:39 AM
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@ Nec: That's why we have to keep these crt's going, I won't be dropping mine as long as I have a room to put it in smile.gif
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post #47 of 250 Old 09-12-2012, 12:25 PM
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I will know soon if i can repair it. Gonna receive the needed FET's today. (Can u guys believe this monster uses 1500V 50A Field Effect Transistors for deflection lol!)

Man are the video drivers(video output amplifier) in monitors crazy. In almost all CRT's, the rgb video drivers are usually located on the neck of the CRT and are either TO220 simple transistors or a IC like the TDA6120Q. In this monitor VPJ06 video packs are used wink.gif. One for each color.... eek.gif

Read this for people who wanna know what a video pack is :
http://home.arcor.de/thomasfetzer/Sanjo/SY103A_e.pdf

And almost all the transistors recommended in this Sanyo guide to Ultra Vision CRT monitors are used in the XP37 Xtra.
2Sj306 B+ Chopper, 250V 12A FET for S curve correction and Switching.

I replaced the FET's, the B+ chopper Fet and now i have a S curve FET that's short.
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post #48 of 250 Old 10-18-2012, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I keep having futuristic CRT TV's in my dreams. Somehow I know for sure that CRT TV's will come back into the production line sometime in my lifetime. Whatever it will be 1 year from now or 30 years from now. I hope that CRT TV's will come back into the production line soon. smile.gif

I like CRT TV's and CRT Arcade Monitors the most.
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post #49 of 250 Old 10-18-2012, 07:49 AM
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CRT is still the norm in asian countries. Almost all of the TV channels are in 4:3 standard definition. Watching this on 50" LCD will make you puke as the image is too blurry.
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post #50 of 250 Old 10-18-2012, 11:34 AM
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CRT was great, but honestly, no thanks. I will take my calibrated DLP HD projector ANY day over even the nicest CRT TV.

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post #51 of 250 Old 10-21-2012, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I am still playing my nes and other video game systems on my 27" RCA Flatscreen Tube TV. My Tube TV is now 4 years old, working great. I hope that CRT TV's will go back into the production line before my tv gives out and it's unfixable. eek.gif

I like CRT TV's and CRT Arcade Monitors the most.
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post #52 of 250 Old 10-22-2012, 11:11 AM
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We still have four CRT Monitors in our facility (not counting the old, odd NTSC TV sets....mostly 13" or smaller, with ATSC Converters on them).

Three CRT Monitors are used in the Camera Control area, where checking color balance and detail are critical. The other one is a standard-definition unit, which is in Engineering, and is used to judge picture quality from SD sources, and monitoring quality of return feeds.

The LCD's, Plasma's, etc still have a way to go before they can beat a CRT, and do it at an affordable price.

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post #53 of 250 Old 10-22-2012, 05:25 PM
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I have a Sony Kv36HS500 with 12 years old and i will put it side by side with any led or lcd and plasma and so on and will put those to shame.
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post #54 of 250 Old 11-11-2012, 01:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I just had a CRT TV dream. In the dream. I went inside a huge store. I looked around the store in my dream. Then, I saw all around me plenty of brand new CRT TV's, from 5" to 32" in size. These new TV"s are futuristic standard definition 4:3 aspect ratio CRT TV. Most of these new CRT TV's are curved screen, few were flat screen. Then I looked to see what are the brands of these TV's. I could not read the brands with my eyes in this dream. Then I saw someone that works at this store. I asked her what year is this in my dream She said, "Year 2018 or 2019" Then I woke up. I have 100% confidence that CRT TV's will come back into the production line one day. biggrin.gif

I like CRT TV's and CRT Arcade Monitors the most.
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post #55 of 250 Old 11-11-2012, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bringbackcrttv View Post

I just had a CRT TV dream. In the dream. I went inside a huge store. I looked around the store in my dream. Then, I saw all around me plenty of brand new CRT TV's, from 5" to 32" in size. These new TV"s are futuristic standard definition 4:3 aspect ratio CRT TV. Most of these new CRT TV's are curved screen, few were flat screen. Then I looked to see what are the brands of these TV's. I could not read the brands with my eyes in this dream. Then I saw someone that works at this store. I asked her what year is this in my dream She said, "Year 2018 or 2019" Then I woke up. I have 100% confidence that CRT TV's will come back into the production line one day. biggrin.gif

Just to dream about them is whacky enough but no 16:9 HD's and mostly curved screens? rolleyes.gif
Did your back hurt when you got up? (i.e. lifting dream CRT's). eek.gif
wink.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #56 of 250 Old 11-11-2012, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bringbackcrttv View Post

I just had a CRT TV dream. In the dream. I went inside a huge store. I looked around the store in my dream. Then, I saw all around me plenty of brand new CRT TV's, from 5" to 32" in size. These new TV"s are futuristic standard definition 4:3 aspect ratio CRT TV. Most of these new CRT TV's are curved screen, few were flat screen. Then I looked to see what are the brands of these TV's. I could not read the brands with my eyes in this dream. Then I saw someone that works at this store. I asked her what year is this in my dream She said, "Year 2018 or 2019" Then I woke up. I have 100% confidence that CRT TV's will come back into the production line one day. biggrin.gif

was there a buggy whip factory in that dream as well? tongue.gif

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post #57 of 250 Old 11-12-2012, 02:35 AM
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post #58 of 250 Old 11-12-2012, 12:51 PM
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Mitsubishi made a 80" RP CRT BTW and I know of several factory made 100" and 110" units.

You could custom order larger from others (Barco, Ampro, etc)

They still do make 19" CRT's and multiscan 19" CRT monitors but that will probably stop next year or so. Mainly illegal to import CRT's due to leaded glass except for special use. Still used for industrial and Military where their is still no usable replacement.

I have about 30 in storage for my arcade games and such. Most I got for free or $5-10$. If you store the tube face down so the cathodes do not get contaminates on them the tube should last 100+ years so what is the problem?

Large direct view CRT's greater than about 20" are inferior in all respects to any good flat panel for many reasons. This is why their never were any proofing monitors much bigger than this size even at $50k+ price.

A video processor/transceiver/scaler will handle all of you needs and are very affordable now.
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post #59 of 250 Old 11-13-2012, 12:25 PM
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There are still many crt televisions in use throughout the world and parts are still available for many modles.
I repair televisions and I have observed that lcd and plasmas are very expensive to repair,and they seem not
to be as durable as the crt television.
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post #60 of 250 Old 11-13-2012, 10:51 PM
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I still think the understanding of what a good picture is can be skewed...

for the most part, resolution is overrated...especially on something like a directview crt. Unscaled 1080i or 720p can be breathtaking...no further resolution required.

Absolute brightness or light output is also overrated...the brighter the image, the more apparent the noise is...and plasma sure is damn noisy!

The noise alone makes it damn near impossible to get immersed in the movie...and total flatscreens with perfect geometry don't give the lifelike feel of a crt. The sense of looking through a window or the suspension of reality...always seem to be better on a crt. I still hold out hope to get a nice immersive plasma..but I just haven't quite found one yet.

I've owned all kinds of crt's...and plasma's...and lcd's. I had the Pioneer 4280 and the noise on the screen was just brutal. lcd's are terrible off angle..and even slightly off angle. Their color rendition is always lacking something too...not sure what, but something.

Although I understand that for 99% of the population, crt is a non starter...and I agree with that. But, there's no point in trying to argue with weirdo's like us..we love what we love.
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