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post #31 of 88 Old 03-25-2014, 04:26 PM
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LG AKA Lucky Gold Star made a lot of CRT's for Sony , Toshiba and others .

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
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post #32 of 88 Old 03-25-2014, 04:28 PM
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Here's the reality.....
The name on the front of TV means nothing, other than price and perhaps warranty (hopefully quality control).

No different than adopting a pet at a shelter. It may "look" great, but who knows what's really in the genetic make up.
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post #33 of 88 Old 03-25-2014, 04:33 PM
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That's a fact I recently bought a new Sony KDL 40R450A for my bedroom it has a Samsung SPVA panel and the TV is made by Foxconn and assembled in Mexico. .

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
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post #34 of 88 Old 03-25-2014, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Here's the reality.....
The name on the front of TV means nothing, other than price and perhaps warranty (hopefully quality control).

If that was the case, the Loewe Aconda wouldn't look way more stunning than the Philips TV from which it derived its tube, or way better than the Sony XBR960 which was hailed as the best CRT ever made. People would never say that the Beovision Avant is the most 3D looking CRT ever made (it's mostly due to the video processing units that B&O Produced in Denmark).... So there is a lot more than the tube and panel that go into it. The Processors, scalers, even the higher end resistsors, caps, etc... can affect the picture in some way... This is really why they look better to most people.

On top of that, you're always buying into the fact that B&O still produces most TVs in Denmark and Loewe and Metz in Germany.... You pay a few grand more for beautiful design, materials, higher priced labor costs, and better components and processors....

Or you do like me and just buy the best used for a pittance ($40 in my case which is what I payed for the Aconda and the XBR960 ;-))
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post #35 of 88 Old 03-25-2014, 11:47 PM
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Philips had a habit of buying Samsung tubes for about ten years before they gave up. If you're was flat, I'd be inclined to guess it was one of theirs, but why don't you take the back off and see? You do still have it right?

As for Bang & Oluffsen.... I've seen a few, a friend has owned a few. I'm not a fan of them, and they have enough aggravating to their firmware that my buddy relegated his model to the bin, where it will likely stay until his Trinitrons kick the bucket. I don't know if the model(s) you speak of are completely different from the ones I've played around with, but I didn't see anything worth a lasting impression. I'd be surprised if it were anything but a bog standard circuit, much less any honest processing going on. The color wasn't as nice as any given Asian tube I've owned (Samsung, Sony, Toshiba, LG, take your pick) and certainly not as sharp as a Trinitron, or the other later shadow masks. It wasn't horrible for what it was though, but by far, the profile of the thing was its standout feature.

When push comes to shove, though, you want the image inside the tube to stand out more than the one outside it, and that's where B&O is lacking. What B&O model did you have that was so mind blowing?
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post #36 of 88 Old 03-26-2014, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post

Philips had a habit of buying Samsung tubes for about ten years before they gave up. If you're was flat, I'd be inclined to guess it was one of theirs, but why don't you take the back off and see? You do still have it right?

As for Bang & Oluffsen.... I've seen a few, a friend has owned a few. I'm not a fan of them, and they have enough aggravating to their firmware that my buddy relegated his model to the bin, where it will likely stay until his Trinitrons kick the bucket. I don't know if the model(s) you speak of are completely different from the ones I've played around with, but I didn't see anything worth a lasting impression. I'd be surprised if it were anything but a bog standard circuit, much less any honest processing going on. The color wasn't as nice as any given Asian tube I've owned (Samsung, Sony, Toshiba, LG, take your pick) and certainly not as sharp as a Trinitron, or the other later shadow masks. It wasn't horrible for what it was though, but by far, the profile of the thing was its standout feature.

When push comes to shove, though, you want the image inside the tube to stand out more than the one outside it, and that's where B&O is lacking. What B&O model did you have that was so mind blowing?

I had the MX4000 and the colors and picture were the most stunning I have ever seen from an SD tube. I was debating between buying the Loewe Aconda which is the best picture I have seen from a CRT (Million times better in terms of color rendition, black levels, contrast, etc... than the XBR960) and this uses a Philips HD tube that is flat as you say. Before I bought it, I almost purchased the B&O Beovision Avant, which had the most 3D like picture of any CRT and the colors, contrast, etc... were amazing. This was all thanks to the image processors that B&O had in the Unit that were made in Denmark. The same story goes for the Loewe, ultiamtely it looks better than any CRT, not only because of its tube, but because of its processors and other things they did to it. I ended up choosing the Loewe because I wanteed an HD (1080i) vs. ED (480P as on the Avant).
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post #37 of 88 Old 03-26-2014, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BaronKatz View Post

If that was the case, the Loewe Aconda wouldn't look way more stunning than the Philips TV from which it derived its tube,

I think if you check, the CRT used in the Aconda is the same used in the RCA F38310 and Proscan 38000, developed by Thomson Electronics.
Both TV's (RCA and Loewe) had a great picture. One had a matte grey finish, the other black piano gloss, at twice the price. wink.gif

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/loewe-aconda-38-inch-hdtv-monitor
Quote:
...the Loewe Aconda which is the best picture I have seen from a CRT and this uses a Philips HD tube that is flat as you say.
The Aconda has a curved screen.
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post #38 of 88 Old 03-26-2014, 08:52 AM
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He was referring to his 30 inch Loewe Aconda, which he mentioned in an earlier post, has (had?) a flat face.

As for the B&O . . . Baron, you are the only person I have seen who holds their image in such regard. Everyone, and I do mean everyone likes the look of the television. Physically. But its image and its features as a television product, leave much to be desired. I can't find anything to show specs for video processing in the B&O, but I'll again say I'd be awfully surprised if they were doing much more than simple comb filtering.

I'm not sure if the B&O MX4000 is one that I've seen or not, but for only a 20 inch tube, I'd have a hard time putting it against the more popular and much larger tubes we chat up on this board. I'll try to ring up my friend and see what model he has, but in the meantime, I read through this thread months ago and it had me roaring with laughter at points.

Highlights:
Quote:

  1. I got meself a nice shiney B&O MX4000
  2. I can recommend the B&O Beovision MX4000 or 42000. Its a 4:3 21" screen that is very easy to TATE [to turn on its side] and has a spectacular picture!
  3. I'll second the notion of going with a B&O set. You'll be hard pressed to find such a perfect fusion of style and function in the CRT world.
  4. Style over substance! wink.gif
  5. Go for a "run of the mill" classic (black) Sony CRT. Cheaper, more reliable and ten a penny availability wise
  6. As recommended I would go for a [Sony] BVM. I mean this is not just our hobby, this is our passion! You're spending hours and hours before that display.
  7. What exactly about the B&O fell short?
  8. Clarity of image over a Trinitron, which is not surprising when you realise the 21" mx's use not so great Phillips tubes.
  9. they [the B&O's] are very very nice CRT's and of course have the added deinterlace function that is selectable.
  10. Just lost out on a local eBay bid on a B&O MX4000 with remote, it ended up at £165 !
  11. £165 for a B&O MX!!!!! rolleyes.gif Whoever bought that for that price must still be pissed on the mulled wine!
  12. I would not be paying that kind of money though..... it really isn't worth it (you can buy a Sony PVM for less than that..... heaven forbid, I bought a Sony BVM for less than that! lol). Max price would be £50 for a MX, especially when you can bag a good Sony CRT for £10!
  13. I have not regretted any aspect of these sets. Picture quality is amazing especially when chassis is tuned correctly (thanks again Fagin). They are the slimmest Tvs you will find, and slot nicely into any game room.
  14. However, there is some truth into how the MX4000 handle NTSC signals, colours are a bit washed out and picture softer vs my CM8833...
  15. If you noticed that too, it shows my unit is not faulty handling 60hz NTSC signals. Did you notice some kind of color bleeding too?
  16. I have managed to fiddle around with the MX4000 setting and the picture has improved massively..I had to tone the Brillance setting right down (to 14) Colour is really vibrant now and even a little less blurry
  17. Colour bleed is normal on these types of sets..... don't forget it's only a consumer set-up.
  18. Both are colourful enough but it is indeed not as vibrant as the Trinitron I use with my Supergun test rig. This must partly be down to the screen cover as well. [Followed by a laughably dull, dim photo comparison of Sonic the Hedgehog with the same image on a Trinitron.]
  19. I have the crosshatch already set up, but every time I switch from TV to RGB (or Tape 1/2) I lose the service menu option! So how the flying hell am I supposed to tune RGB?
  20. Blindly..... I'm serious! rolleyes.gif This is a major flaw on these sets.
  21. Ah, so the tv REALLY is a pain in the ass to set up and it wasn't just me being stupid.

And things go on and on like this, but the cherry on top was the OP chiming in after several pages of fiddling with his B&O MX4000 to say:
Quote:
You know what?

F*ck the B&O MX4000. Really, f*ck it.

Get a Trinitron.

I have to confirm a sentiment, that has been posted in this thread long ago:

Don't be fooled by the nice and stylish appearance of the MX line...

I should have gotten a trinitron set on the beginning of my retro-crt-journey... Could have saved me quite some money (well, not that much) and especially hassle.

I changed the thread topic accordingly. [Note: He had changed the thread topic title to the bolded text above--only changing it back later at the request of other B&O users because it contained useful information for dealing with these finicky, underdesigned TVs.]

Seriously, forget about getting a B&O - Trinitron all the way, baby!

There's a lot of mention of deinterlacing mode in this thread. But also that it has no buffer at all. Meaning it isn't processing, all it is actually doing for "deinterlacing" is offsetting each field. This provides a lower resolution image that may appear sharper under certain circumstances, and is particularly desirable for old school classic gamers for "that look" that it provides, of dark, black, blank "scanlines." It would appear that in all other aspects, the B&O line is geared to look nice sitting in your living room, but with the crappier end of Philips-made tubes, a mind made to slimness (before "slim fit" was even really a thing for mainstream CRT), and low resolution to boot, there is nothing much to set the B&O apart. Even the... glare filter glass (?) or what ever the hell it is supposed to be unnecessarily dulls the image (also complained about mightily in that thread), these things were made for housewives to go "oooh" at and relent at an upscale pricetag it would seem.
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post #39 of 88 Old 03-26-2014, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post

He was referring to his 30 inch Loewe Aconda, which he mentioned in an earlier post, has (had?) a flat face.

Then that would be the Aventos, not the Aconda. wink.gif
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post #40 of 88 Old 03-26-2014, 09:13 AM
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Sounds like the freshmaker.
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post #41 of 88 Old 03-26-2014, 09:21 AM
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Oh... okay. rolleyes.gif
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post #42 of 88 Old 03-26-2014, 09:25 AM
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Dude, duke it out with the Baron. He stated his 30 incher was a Loewe Aconda on the first page of this thread, I have no experience with the stuff in his home so you two take it to 12 rounds.
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post #43 of 88 Old 03-26-2014, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

I think if you check, the CRT used in the Aconda is the same used in the RCA F38310 and Proscan 38000, developed by Thomson Electronics.
Both TV's (RCA and Loewe) had a great picture. One had a matte grey finish, the other black piano gloss, at twice the price. wink.gif

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/loewe-aconda-38-inch-hdtv-monitor
The Aconda has a curved screen.

Yes I know they are all the same tube, but as I mentioned before, the Loewe had a lot more than just Piano Black finish (which wasn't on all the TV's anyways), it had: a different chassis, different components (higher end resistors, caps, etc...), a different processing unit, different firmware/software, one of the best scalers of any CRT, and the fact that it was built in the USA and later in Germany, also contributed to its high price (labor costs). So it was NOT just the same TV with a different body. It's more like having the same engine in a car, but changing the body/styling along with the suspension (maybe some coil over shocks), gear ratios, better tires, etc.... and building it in a different factory in a different country. They make have the same roar or the same basic engine inside, but they are not the same car anymore. The car with the upgraded sports suspension and other components will handle much better (IE produce a better image as with the components, scalers, etc... on the TV).
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post

He was referring to his 30 inch Loewe Aconda, which he mentioned in an earlier post, has (had?) a flat face.

As for the B&O . . . Baron, you are the only person I have seen who holds their image in such regard. Everyone, and I do mean everyone likes the look of the television. Physically. But its image and its features as a television product, leave much to be desired. I can't find anything to show specs for video processing in the B&O, but I'll again say I'd be awfully surprised if they were doing much more than simple comb filtering.

I'm not sure if the B&O MX4000 is one that I've seen or not, but for only a 20 inch tube, I'd have a hard time putting it against the more popular and much larger tubes we chat up on this board. I'll try to ring up my friend and see what model he has, but in the meantime, I read through this thread months ago and it had me roaring with laughter at points.

Highlights:
And things go on and on like this, but the cherry on top was the OP chiming in after several pages of fiddling with his B&O MX4000 to say:
There's a lot of mention of deinterlacing mode in this thread. But also that it has no buffer at all. Meaning it isn't processing, all it is actually doing for "deinterlacing" is offsetting each field. This provides a lower resolution image that may appear sharper under certain circumstances, and is particularly desirable for old school classic gamers for "that look" that it provides, of dark, black, blank "scanlines." It would appear that in all other aspects, the B&O line is geared to look nice sitting in your living room, but with the crappier end of Philips-made tubes, a mind made to slimness (before "slim fit" was even really a thing for mainstream CRT), and low resolution to boot, there is nothing much to set the B&O apart. Even the... glare filter glass (?) or what ever the hell it is supposed to be unnecessarily dulls the image (also complained about mightily in that thread), these things were made for housewives to go "oooh" at and relent at an upscale pricetag it would seem.

That's his opinion. I used to have this TV and found the colors and contrast to beat my old Sony Trinitron from about 2002, as well as my new XBR960 (although the XBR960 is much sharper and HD, etc...) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA-DNwXraJ4 and here are some positive reviews of the Avant: http://www.avsforum.com/t/718723/can-anything-produce-beovision-avant-effect and this describes the 3D effect I mentioned earlier: http://www.avsforum.com/t/560482/beovision-3d-effect

Finally here is the video processing unit from the Beovision Avant. I HIGHLY doubt that it was just a comb filter in this huge unit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bang-Olufsen-Beosystem-1-AV-Processor-for-Beovision-DTS-Processing-/190920529105?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2c73c014d1 I've heard nothing but good things about the Avan'ts and in fact some people even prefer the depth it has to the Loewe Aconda even though the Aconda is HD vs. the ED on the Avant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Then that would be the Aventos, not the Aconda. wink.gif

Actually it is the Aconda 30". Model number ACO3093. You can see it in the brochure here: https://www.usahifi.com/sites/default/files/product/772/manuals/Loewe%20Full%20Line%20Brochure.pdf The one that replaced it was the Articos 30"...
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Baron, you may be jumping the gun on your 960 comparison if you're basing it on that used one you just acquired, it may have issues. TBD of course.

Two decades ago I was told all the larger tubes (I think 30"+) at the time were made by Mitsubishi. The bigger tubes were extremely difficult to make properly so it came down to one player. I just throw this out as an example per the tube discussion (Aconda 38" curvy tube was made by RCA (Thomson I presume) to the best of my knowledge).

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post #45 of 88 Old 03-26-2014, 12:30 PM
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Enjoy whatever CRT you want, have or desire as long as you can find one and as long as it lasts.
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post #46 of 88 Old 03-26-2014, 12:31 PM
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Like the VW Beetle and Porsche engine being the same some long time ago.

What model is this one? No size mentioned either:

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/fuo/4355359136.html

For awhile there was a mint black Aconda 38" for $1000. Some consignment place that claimed to be selling fancy stuff for special clients, said it was a demo. I though of offering them $100 since it was on Craigslist. Ad was up for couple of years. Seems like a vintage mint item you'd try and sell elsewhere to richy folks. rolleyes.gif

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post #47 of 88 Old 03-26-2014, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

Baron, you may be jumping the gun on your 960 comparison if you're basing it on that used one you just acquired, it may have issues. TBD of course.

Two decades ago I was told all the larger tubes (I think 30"+) at the time were made by Mitsubishi. The bigger tubes were extremely difficult to make properly so it came down to one player. I just throw this out as an example per the tube discussion (Aconda 38" curvy tube was made by RCA (Thomson I presume) to the best of my knowledge).

Actually the XBR960 is working great now. I think it must have been the source.It's a great TV but again the color is not there. Here are some comparisons with the 38" Aconda: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-162187.html http://www.avsforum.com/t/777582/best-crt-tv-for-ps3-the-sony-kd-34xbr960 http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/22800-4-sony-34xbr960-questions

Sure the Aconda lacks HDMI (I mostly use component anyways) and HD Tuner (Again Component video from my Xfinity HD box, who uses HD tuners these days anyways...) and it lacks a bit of resolution/sharpness but that's hard to tell when the colors and contrast are soooo rich on the Aconda.
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post #48 of 88 Old 03-26-2014, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Like the VW Beetle and Porsche engine being the same some long time ago.

What model is this one? No size mentioned either:

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/fuo/4355359136.html

For awhile there was a mint black Aconda 38" for $1000. Some consignment place that claimed to be selling fancy stuff for special clients, said it was a demo. I though of offering them $100 since it was on Craigslist. Ad was up for couple of years. Seems like a vintage mint item you'd try and sell elsewhere to richy folks. rolleyes.gif

Looks like the Loewe Planus: http://www.cnet.com/products/loewe-planus-plc530-30-crt-tv/ I think they were only 30" and not flat like the 30" Aconda and not an HD set from my undestanding. Although Amazon has it erroniously listed as a Direct View 1080i set. Not sure if this is true and they are selling them for WAY too much http://www.amazon.com/Loewe-Planus-PLA530-Direct-View-Screen/dp/B00005O7I6 the price is actually funny!
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post #49 of 88 Old 03-26-2014, 01:32 PM
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OK, looks like you've done your homework. Hard to beat the HD CRTs as it is, I'm satisfied so I better not view one of these Acondas smile.gif. I would have grabbed that $25 Aconda had I not just painstakingly acquired my Panny. Just the sheer weight of these beasts and my difficulty in getting help. I had thought about it long and hard and the lady never responded that anyone there could help me load it even though she did reply back dropping the price from $50 to $25 after tiring of no takers.

Actually lots of HD tuner users these days including myself as folks try to cut the $ cord. Maybe their kids' smartphone bills are eating into their wallets. I couldn't believe what my friend was having to pay for lousy SD service from a sat. co. because he was in a poor reception area; and the stupid box only went up to s-video but his fancy HD flat panel doesn't have s-video so he had to use composite. eek.gif

Yeah that looks like it and it doesn't look flat in his CL pics. I also saw a reviewer in that ad wrote it was 480i. Yeah what a price although I think those are actually new, probably got some overstock deal.

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post #50 of 88 Old 03-26-2014, 03:22 PM
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... who uses HD tuners these days anyways...

Me... since 2002. wink.gif
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post #51 of 88 Old 03-26-2014, 04:58 PM
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Me... since 2002. wink.gif

Wow, early adopter. Were there many channels in 2002?

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post #52 of 88 Old 03-27-2014, 07:01 AM
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About 4 or 5.
And... PBS was showing an HD loop 24/7 (I watched it MANY times). The big three had digital channels, but HD content was VERY sparse. But the real dog of the bunch was FOX. It only broadcasted 480p widescreen. Football looked great compared to 480i 4:3 though.

The saving grace was seeing the Olympics for the 1st time in HD. Lots of Ooo's, Ah's and Wow's!! In my mind, that justified the cost of the TV and the frustration of finding the "right" antenna.
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post #53 of 88 Old 03-27-2014, 10:58 AM
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I bet what was there was mind-blowing at the time. Even that ED for motion/sports. I read the reason FOX is 720p vs. most others being 1080i is due to all their sports broadcasts. HD tuners cost a small fortune back then.

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post #54 of 88 Old 03-27-2014, 12:29 PM
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1) F38310 was the largest 16:9 direct view CRT (Loewe aside)
2) F38310 had three built-in tuners. Two ATSC/NTSC and one DirecTV. So... tuner cost was a non-issue.

As for excuses/reasons of 720p vs. 1080i... that's a different discussion. Personally... I've never had any complaints since FOX went 720p. Football looks good at 1080i also. tongue.gif
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post #55 of 88 Old 03-27-2014, 04:57 PM
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I should have wrote 'stand-alone HD tuners.' I know the ones I bought on the cheap the past coupla years MSRPed for ridiculous prices. The CRT HDTVs had ridiculous prices back then too but I don't know how much was due to the tuner; some didn't have HD tuners but there were external option tuners at whacky prices leading me to believe it was significant (for example my Panny CT-34WX50).

Of course most if not all CRTs convert 720p to 1080i and most flat panels convert the broadcasts to 1080p. tongue.gif

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post #56 of 88 Old 03-28-2014, 12:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Floydage View Post

Actually lots of HD tuner users these days including myself as folks try to cut the $ cord. Maybe their kids' smartphone bills are eating into their wallets. I couldn't believe what my friend was having to pay for lousy SD service from a sat. co. because he was in a poor reception area; and the stupid box only went up to s-video but his fancy HD flat panel doesn't have s-video so he had to use composite. eek.gif

I hardly ever watch live television so an HD card is a non-issue and is actually not good for me as I mostly do Xfinity on Demand and therefore need their box to catch shows I've missed. I also mostly watch Netflix Streaming and Bluray from Redbox, so for me the HD tuner is a real non-issue. Sometimes I will even watch Amazon Prime or Hulu through my Wii, but unfortunately that only gives out 480p. My Bluray has Netflix but not the other ones frown.gif Thinking of getting an Apple TV that has the Crystal HD card and is jailbroken with XBMC or something installed. That's what you should do if you really want to cut the $ cord ;-)
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post #57 of 88 Old 03-28-2014, 09:55 AM
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I read an interesting article on that subject and some folks were actually spending more due to all the streaming subscriptions plus some per show download costs. And throw in an Apple TV or the like box purchase. Of course you have to have higher speed internet and in my case I'd have to pay more for the speed increase (currently 3 MB/s). And in my friend's case they don't even have internet, a big waste of money for him (he gets what little he needs at work) and doesn't want his wife glued to it. Some folks have what they need via their smartphones too.

Last I recall you got the 960 under control so I guess you didn't need to try its HD tuner.

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post #58 of 88 Old 03-29-2014, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Last I recall you got the 960 under control so I guess you didn't need to try its HD tuner.

Yes it has a nice a nice 3D effect with some movies but the contrast/colors are not there for me still... I miss my Loewe... frown.gif Can't wait to find another one!
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post #59 of 88 Old 03-31-2014, 09:39 AM
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That's his opinion. I used to have this TV and found the colors and contrast to beat my old Sony Trinitron from about 2002, as well as my new XBR960 (although the XBR960 is much sharper and HD, etc...)

But you noticed, or did you not, that it wasn't only his opinion? He got all excited about the B&O, picked up the thing, and was underwhelmed. When he got a Trinitron set, it solved all the problems he'd had with the former. YMMV and all, but he was warned by more than one person that he was putting a lot of hope into the B&O.

That thread is describing a B&O plasma television. You know?
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Finally here is the video processing unit from the Beovision Avant. I HIGHLY doubt that it was just a comb filter in this huge unit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bang-Olufsen-Beosystem-1-AV-Processor-for-Beovision-DTS-Processing-/190920529105?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2c73c014d1

I highly doubt that is a comb filter at all, much more likely that is in the logic board with the CRT, because what you linked to is a DTS (audio) sound processor, pretty simple really.
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I've heard nothing but good things about the Avan'ts and in fact some people even prefer the depth it has to the Loewe Aconda even though the Aconda is HD vs. the ED on the Avant.
Actually it is the Aconda 30". Model number ACO3093. You can see it in the brochure here: https://www.usahifi.com/sites/default/files/product/772/manuals/Loewe%20Full%20Line%20Brochure.pdf The one that replaced it was the Articos 30"...

I thought we were talking about the B&O line? Anyway, I got curiouser about the B&O "processing" and looked more into various models. The most that I see of any "processing" that some people find "almost 3D," is that several of the things from the late 90s til the end of life were made with 100Hz sync in mind. And I can tell you, 100Hz is 100Hz, no processing about it, it is pretty well universally reviled in all other televisions I've ever seen any Britons, or anybody else in Euroland comment on at all. It's usually someone asking how to turn OFF 100Hz, rather than any supposed benefits it can bring. Can you point me to an actual reliable source for B&O processing? Maybe they had some models that worked 100Hz better than others but I find even that pretty hard to believe.
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post #60 of 88 Old 03-31-2014, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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But you noticed, or did you not, that it wasn't only his opinion? He got all excited about the B&O, picked up the thing, and was underwhelmed. When he got a Trinitron set, it solved all the problems he'd had with the former. YMMV and all, but he was warned by more than one person that he was putting a lot of hope into the B&O.

Yes but I also had the TV and loved it. It's not nearly as good as the Avant, but the MX4000 was so nice and I had no problems with it.
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That thread is describing a B&O plasma television. You know?.

I put two threads in there and even the second one talks about the Avant: http://www.avsforum.com/t/560482/beovision-3d-effect

Some experts:

"The Beovision 5 and Avant really do have that almost too good 3-D depth effect but also the best piture I've ever seen for HDTV displays ever. Your decription is spot on. It's erie how much better the picture is compared to ALL other displays. I've seen top end Sony XBR plasma, $18,000 Runco 42" coupled with a $8,000 fajourda scaler/digital processer, and many others and still the Beovision comes out on the top for most striking picture especially on DVD. Yea I know it's only 480p not 720p, yea I know it's a $20,000 over inflated price, yea I know it's a pannasonic glass but dam ... this is what I envisioned HDTV to look like back in 1990 when I went to Best Buy to look at the first HDTV but have been dissapointed every HDTV display up to this day EXECEPT for the Avant and Beovision 5. Loewe is the only other company that comes close and it's a lot cheaper(2000-5000) but the quality issues are not to be desired. Can anybody shed more light on this for us.'"

"The Avant I saw 6 years ago wasn't even a HD display(I think it was a ED) but it still looked better than any thing I've seen to this day...execept the Beovsion 5...I know B&O uses their own in house scalers/processors/de-lacers...."
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I highly doubt that is a comb filter at all, much more likely that is in the logic board with the CRT, because what you linked to is a DTS (audio) sound processor, pretty simple really.
I thought we were talking about the B&O line? Anyway, I got curiouser about the B&O "processing" and looked more into various models. The most that I see of any "processing" that some people find "almost 3D," is that several of the things from the late 90s til the end of life were made with 100Hz sync in mind. And I can tell you, 100Hz is 100Hz, no processing about it, it is pretty well universally reviled in all other televisions I've ever seen any Britons, or anybody else in Euroland comment on at all. It's usually someone asking how to turn OFF 100Hz, rather than any supposed benefits it can bring. Can you point me to an actual reliable source for B&O processing? Maybe they had some models that worked 100Hz better than others but I find even that pretty hard to believe.

From that same forum posting:

"The beosystem1 is a big processing unit for sound,picture, and control. It spits out great analog sd,dvd,hd...what ever you put into it, it will process it and make it look much better. I've seen the Avant hooked up to a low end Panny VCR and the picture was great. Watching standard SD cable also looked great too. But to really maximize a Beosystem 1 it should be used with a Beovision set...Hey Rick , Do other plasma sets work as well or better than B&O screens? The picture as a package (3-D effect, colors, clarity, contrast, etc) is greatly improved with the Beosystem 1. Downside--$5500 msrp..bummer. Worst yet, you might get only a 30% lower price on e-bay (2 have sold for a lot of money and a lot of bids the last two months). For such a obscure device it has it's followers!"
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