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post #31 of 53 Old 06-09-2002, 04:17 PM
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I know it's easier said than done, but I would never base my sole decision on a salesroom demo.
I'm well aware of that, ratman. I decided to buy my Panasonic HDTV not from looking at it in stores, but from online research. What was strange about the RCA setup was that I have seen that very same set look outstanding at that very same store and despite all my efforts, I was unable to determine why.

It was funny, explainging what I was doing to the sales guys, who were clueless. Absolutely clueless.

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post #32 of 53 Old 06-10-2002, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
Yeah, that must be me, one of those anti-Sony folk who can't be argued with. As a result of my delayed recognition of this, I am discarding the following today:

* My Sony DVD player
* My Sony PDA
* My Sony Playstation 2
* My Sony Walkmans (2 of them)

I also believe I have a Sony DVD drive built into one of my computers, so I am prying that out with a crowbar (sp?).

I am not anti-Sony. I am anti-DRC. They built a moronic line-doubling technology that was obviously never tested on low-bandwidth MPEG-compressed signals. People who use DRC-equipped sets with such signals and do not see how incredibly bad the picture is are either visually impaired on blissfully ignorant.

Mark
Sorry ... I was slightly off. Rogo ... you may not hate all Sony, but you can't be argued with. I will say that for those who read that Rogo says the Sony is unwatchable, you should not question him on it ... just picture me happily watching DirecTV (networks included) on mine. Since I'm not visually impaired, I must be blissfully ignorant, because Rogo says so.
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post #33 of 53 Old 06-10-2002, 12:36 PM
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Rick: I can be argued with. Really I can be. Sometimes, I even admit defeat and lose. I have seen these Sony sets hundreds and hundreds of time. I have seen them primarily in New York and San Francisco, so those are the DirecTV locals I am referring to by the way. I suppose unwatchable may overstate the case in that if you are enjoying the content, the pixelation, macro-blocking, jaggies, fields devoid of slightly contrasting color, etc. might not be so important.

I would love to see the picture on your set and feel differently about it than I do, I've just never seen anything close anywhere on these Sony sets that indicates they are designed or built to display tightly compressed MPEG. DVD looks good, DirecTV and digital cable do not -- to me.

Blissfully ignorant should not be construed as an insult, btw. It's good fortune.

Mark

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #34 of 53 Old 06-10-2002, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
if you are enjoying the content, the pixelation, macro-blocking, jaggies, fields devoid of slightly contrasting color, etc. might not be so important.
There you go ... it is these very pixelations, jaggies, etc, that I enjoy ever so much ... they are actually drove my purchase.

Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
Blissfully ignorant should not be construed as an insult, btw. It's good fortune.Mark
Am I to understand that you are telling me to be happy that I dont know that I am stupid? What a guy!
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post #35 of 53 Old 06-12-2002, 09:53 AM
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"I thought I wanted a F38310 until..."

I saw it. I recently came into the market for a new 16:9 HDTV (my old one died). I was pretty much set on the RCA because it was cheap, and its black. Virtually all of the other 16:9 crt's are silver which would look like crap in my setup. Anyhow, I got to play with a friends RCA and also checked one out in a local store. IMO, both sets had poor geometry, contrast, color fidelity, overly soft image and just lacked punch. Maybe some of these problems could be fixed with some tweaking but I my friend has tried tweaking his to death with only marginal improvements. This was all viewing Dish HD material. My friend is not overly happy with his set. However, when camparing it to more expensive sets from Sampo, Toshiba and Panasonic, it held up pretty good. I think the PQ of all of these sets leaves a bit to be desired. Maybe I'm just too picky. Of all the 16:9 crt's I saw, I think I liked the Sampo the best but not by much. I really could not live with any of the sets.

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post #36 of 53 Old 06-12-2002, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RScogland


There you go ... it is these very pixelations, jaggies, etc, that I enjoy ever so much ... they are actually drove my purchase.



Am I to understand that you are telling me to be happy that I dont know that I am stupid? What a guy!

Well, obviously you are a connoisseur of jaggies! That's explains it all :-).

No, I am not telling you to be happy that you don't know you're stupid. No, I don't think you are stupid. I think the fact that you can't see the obvious flaws in the set is attributable to one of only two possible phenomena:

(1) You don't have the flaws in your set. I find this extraordinarily unlikely because I've seen these Sonys with DRC many times and they always, always suck with DirecTV. But you are in a different market from me and the DirecTV locals vary from market to market by a lot. Maybe yours are good feeds that are not overcompressed.

(2) You can't see the flaws in your set. It's like those DLP owners who can't see the rainbows. Why look for a flaw you can't see? Why learn to dislike what you like? Some people own Bose Home Theaters and think they sound great. I think they sound like crap. If the owner is happy, why should they not remain happy. I am pro-happy. If you like your set and can't see its flaws (and the flaws are actually there -- i.e. it's not #1 but #2) then you are lucky. And happy. And not stupid. Or smart. We'll have to measure your intelligence using another test :-).

Mark

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #37 of 53 Old 06-12-2002, 01:42 PM
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I have had mine for about three weeks and noticed flickering last night and then the picture started going in and out ...really bright and then dark.....I cant tell you how I have grown to love this tv after just three weeks. The HD picture is great....and with the 16:9 screen , it is the full package. I called C City where I purchased it and they told me over the phone that they didnt have any more. So I was going to get the Sony 36in tv...when the manager checked the warehouse for me and they did have another RCA. Before I purchased the rca I asnt sure about the 16:9 screen...but now I cant do without it. I feel that fo the money ...you simply cant beat this set. 38in , 16:9 , built in HD DTV tuner for under $2,000...bottom line is the set isnt perfect. But if you are in the HDTV market right now...its the best value out there. Im on number 2....hope I dont have to go for number 3. I bought the CC extended service plan for 3 years. And you can extend th plan for another 2 years after that. Great deal.

Loving MY HDTV...More CH's PLEASE!!
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post #38 of 53 Old 06-12-2002, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
We'll have to measure your intelligence using another test
By height?
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post #39 of 53 Old 06-13-2002, 01:31 AM
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I propose this multipart test:

(1) What is the answer to the Riddle of the Sphinx?
(2) What is your all-time favorite movie?
(3) Which is better, Wellfleet or Truro?
(4) What word should "W" not have used in his epic post-9/11 speech due to its ability to be taken out of context and used to inflame Islamists?
(5) Where did the urban legend about waking up without a kidney come from?

Mark

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #40 of 53 Old 06-13-2002, 06:42 AM
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1: I dont know the riddle
2: Dazed And Confused
3: To each his own (cop-out ... I've never heard of either)
4: women?
5: Louisianna

OK, I dont mind the fact that I probably went 0-for-5, but you'd at least think I could get question #2 right!
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post #41 of 53 Old 06-13-2002, 11:03 AM
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Answer to question #1 is ...

Man.

Sorry for butting in but I've been overwhelmed buy my lack of knowledge in HDTV technology. So I've been reading and studying all the various technologies and finally came across a question that I can answer.

-Bri
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post #42 of 53 Old 06-13-2002, 06:32 PM
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Hah! Amusing

(1) The answer is man: What walks on four legs in the morning, two legs in the afternoon and three legs in the evening? (Baby crawling = 4, upright =2, with cane = 3).

(2) Really? There the "to each is own" is particularly on point. I pick Casablanca.

(3) They are both on Cape Cod. I thought that was a freebie for ya :-). Wellfleet is much better, BTW.

(4) Crusade, which he meant as important battle but the Islamists were able to twist to suggest we were relaunching the ill-fated battles of the early 2nd millenium.

(5) 1993's "The Harvest", a bad movie. It is the source of the urban legend, in my opinion.

Dazed and Confused, huh?

Mark

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #43 of 53 Old 06-13-2002, 07:17 PM
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Interesting thread. A couple observations: Best Buys NEVER has run a true HD feed in my area. They have a distributed feed of what is basically 480P stuff here. The 38310 looks like caca there.
As far as reliability, well RCA is not known for high marks there. But consider, the 38310 has evolved from a 4000 dollar set that didn't work, to a 2000 dollar set that has most of the bugs worked out. The Princeton which uses the same tube is one of the highest rated sets The Perfect Vision has reviewed. I doubt the electronics differences matter much as far as the final product for HD and DVD (Progressive player).
I have had mine running in the office here for about nine months without a hiccup. I am knocking on wood as I type this. But no one can doubt:
a. the value of this set
b. its image quality for the bucks.

I think it equals or bests any of the direct-view sets out there. It's hard to compare a 38 inch diagonal with a 34 inch or 36 inch 4:3. There is a very significantly larger image and picture issues will be visible on the 38 that are masked by the smaller tubes. Still, the 38 holds up with any of them, at least in my set up. The DTC tuner is a little weak on OTA, but is a workhorse on DirecTV, doing a great job on HD and SD alike. I can't imagine why anyone with the space for the RCA would buy anything else, unless it's the 38 inch Loewe.
JMHO ;)

PS just did a quick calculcation and the RCA 38 has about 32% more picture area than a 36 inch 4:3 set for HD. It even has about 7 % more area than the Sony 40 inch 4:3 set!! It should be around 25% larger in area than a 34 inch 16:9, which is also a big difference when comparing visible lines and other faults. I find the RCA image is seamless when viewed from five feet or more (no vertical lines - they blend together). You could get a lot closer than that to some of the direct views, but the relative image size would be about the same.

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post #44 of 53 Old 06-13-2002, 08:06 PM
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i was a happy owner for 2 months until tonight...when i noticed some discoloring on the lower right corner area of the picture. seemes to be dull pink/green/grey when there was solid white on the screen ( i was watching hockey). i checked other channels and the same thing could be seen on white backgrounds. it's pretty subtle but it's strange because i think i would have seen this before because i've watched hockey on both OTA digital and Tivo on this tv prior to tonight....and both sources have this problem. and this is only happening on all-white scenes (or black and white movies)

i don't have any speakers near it, except for a shielded (supposedly) center speaker on a shelf under the tv. I also have a radioshack double bowtie antenna next to it, but that wouldn't do it, right?

it's not as bad the corner green tinting i was getting with my Sony Wega (and was a problem a lot of people had)....i was told by a tech that it was a product of the tv's sensitivity to the earth's magnetic forces...is that what's going on here?
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post #45 of 53 Old 06-14-2002, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gnosys
It's hard to compare a 38 inch diagonal with a 34 inch or 36 inch 4:3. There is a very significantly larger image and picture issues will be visible on the 38 that are masked by the smaller tubes. Still, the 38 holds up with any of them, at least in my set up. The DTC tuner is a little weak on OTA, but is a workhorse on DirecTV, doing a great job on HD and SD alike. I can't imagine why anyone with the space for the RCA would buy anything else, unless it's the 38 inch Loewe.
JMHO ;)

PS just did a quick calculcation and the RCA 38 has about 32% more picture area than a 36 inch 4:3 set for HD. It even has about 7 % more area than the Sony 40 inch 4:3 set!! It should be around 25% larger in area than a 34 inch 16:9, which is also a big difference when comparing visible lines and other faults. I find the RCA image is seamless when viewed from five feet or more (no vertical lines - they blend together). You could get a lot closer than that to some of the direct views, but the relative image size would be about the same.
One thing to remember is that not everyone views HDTV all the time. The percentages you show are correct for 16:9 programming, but if the programming you watch isnt in HDTV, then the 4:3 sets have a much larger viewing area than 16:9 sets. FYI - My DTC-100 (actually a ProScan PSHD-105) has worked flawlessly with all available OTA stations.

Rogo - I don't doubt that I'm in the minority of the types of movies that I prefer. For whatever reason I am biased AGAINST most movies that I "am told that I should like." If it is a true classic, I probably either don't like it or haven't seen it (example: too many to list). If it is a huge blockbuster, I probably dont bother seeing it (ie: never saw Titanic). If there is a re-make of a classic movie, I probably will see the re-make and like it even though all the critics say it isnt as good as the original (ie: one of my favorite movies lately was the new Ocean's Eleven). If it is smalltime and/or cheezy, I probably love it (ie: Dazed & Confused, Grosse Pointe Blank, Swingers). PS - I know I live in MA, but I never go to Cape Cod.
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post #46 of 53 Old 06-14-2002, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RScogland


One thing to remember is that not everyone views HDTV all the time. The percentages you show are correct for 16:9 programming, but if the programming you watch isnt in HDTV, then the 4:3 sets have a much larger viewing area than 16:9 sets. FYI - My DTC-100 (actually a ProScan PSHD-105) has worked flawlessly with all available OTA stations.

Yep, I agree. That's why I use my Sony 53HS10 4:3 set for X-box and a lot of general viewing. It also has about a 48 inch diagonal 16:9 picture. But, I think the main issue with these expensive HD-capable direct view sets is their performance on 16:9 material. If all you want is a large 4:3 picture, why pay big bucks for a HD-capable set? For example, my RCA 38310 replaced a Sony 36 inch analog set down here in the office. The 4:3 image on DirecTV SD stuff dropped in size a bit, but y'know what? The image quality actually looks a bit better, just because it's smaller. DirecTV's stuff in 4:3 mostly won't hold up to much more than a 32 inch picture anyway.
HD and DVD are the only reason I can see for buying an HD-capable Direct View set. Otherwise save a grand or two and get a regular set.
This is not so clear a decision to me for RPTV, since it truly scales (squeeze-capable sets) 16:9 within the 4:3 screen, which is more like adjusting a front projector on a blank screen versus wasting all that phosphor coated screen on a 4:3 direct view.
But, each to his own. :)

Oh yeah, meant to clarify my comment on the DTC-100 - it works fine for OTA as long as the signal strength at the receiver is good; it's not so good for folks in fringe areas like me, where all my efforts thus far (decent antenna, mast-mounted and receiver preamps) only get me signal in the high twenties for CBS HD :( Many OTA receivers outperform the DTC for this scenario, but I'm not about to spend for one right now (still more antennas to try!)

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post #47 of 53 Old 06-14-2002, 08:02 AM
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Oleus,

I noticed the same "blemish" on the lower right corner of my Loewe 38"
(same picture tube) while I was watching some of the recent NBA playoffs.
It was most noticable against the wood court and I think I remember
seeing it on some hockey games as well. I never saw it while watching
DVD, HDTV, or even premium channels.

To make it short, this problem went away after I adjusted contrast and
brightness to more reasonable settings than those supplied by the factory.
Since the electronics are different on our sets, I won't bother posting them here.

Hope this helps.
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post #48 of 53 Old 06-14-2002, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gnosys
If all you want is a large 4:3 picture, why pay big bucks for a HD-capable set?
That is just it ... it is NOT "all" that I want ... I am willing to get something that isn't the best in one area in order to get something that is very capable in all areas.

Quote:
Originally posted by gnosys
DirecTV's stuff in 4:3 mostly won't hold up to much more than a 32 inch picture anyway.
I'd probably agree with you there.

Quote:
Originally posted by gnosys
HD and DVD are the only reason I can see for buying an HD-capable Direct View set. Otherwise save a grand or two and get a regular set.
True ... much like not buying a DVD player if you dont plan to buy/rent any DVD's. <g>
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post #49 of 53 Old 06-14-2002, 11:46 AM
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Well, this thread is surviving our side chat, so let me continuing jabbering:

(1) The Ocean's Eleven remake is better than the original. That's rarely the case, but certainly was for Ocean's Eleven. I just saw the original Sabrina, for example, and the remake -- while certainly acceptable -- doesn't capture the magic of Audrey Hepburn and Bogie.

(2) I find Swingers and Gross Pointe Blank both to be BRILLIANT movies. I found Dazed and Confused dull. It proves that people can like many of the same movies and still disagree on others (see Ebert and Roeper, et al.).

(3) Go to the Cape before global warming swamps it. I spent two summers there as a kid. It was the best.

Mark

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #50 of 53 Old 06-14-2002, 08:07 PM
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I saw this same discoloration on a 38" Loewe at Audio ETC in Orange CT. Once I noticed it, it was quite distracting.

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post #51 of 53 Old 06-15-2002, 07:44 AM
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I haven't seen the discoloration yet on my 38310, but I can tell you that it doesn't take much of a magnetic field to induce such effects, especially near the edge of such a large tube. Take an unshielded speaker and move it near the tube and you can see the effect. It could even be caused by a piece of component equipment positioned too close, especially the transformer in an amplifier, which has a huge magnetic field. I can't speak to the geomagnetic effects of the planet causing this problem; seems more likely to be local phenomenon.
I'd go through and try to remove anything within 5 feet that has a magnetic field first, then try unplugging and powering back up a few times, which should make the set do a degauss.
Good luck!

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post #52 of 53 Old 07-21-2002, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SDMacQuarrie
My first post:
I had my heart set on the F38310 for the following reasons:
1. Widescreen for DVD watching with no or minimal black bars.
2. The raves this set has received on this forum.
3. Its good value.
4. Widescreen is the future, etc.

However, in Best Buy yesterday, a 32XBR450 was sitting right next to a F38310. Both were receiving the same in house HD feed.
In terms of sheer picture quality, the Sony was far superior to the RCA – at least to this newbie. I did my best to adjust the RCA picture to match the Sony and was disappointed.
The Sony seemed richer, clearer, more detailed, more 3-D, etc.
The RCA just seemed foggier, more opaque, less alive, etc.

To the F38310 and Sony experts:
Ignoring, the 16x9 vs. 4x3 issue, and just concentrating on picture quality, is the Sony PQ really better? Or was I unable to correctly adjust the RCA?

In other words, for me picture quality is paramount: do I buy the RCA now or wait more long, long, long months until the new Sonys come out? (Alas, I can’t afford a plasma.)

BTW: Thanks to everyone on this forum. I’ve been reading here for months. At Tweeter the other day, I was discussing some issues I’d read here with a salesman/manager and he offered me a job! (Of course, it could have been a sly, buttering-me-up sales ploy - he really wanted to sell me a plasma!)

Thanks,
- Scott

Scott,
one golden rule in the wonderful world of HDTV, "Do not go by what you see on the showroom floor in terms of picture quality."

Kipp
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post #53 of 53 Old 07-21-2002, 06:32 PM
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Just wondering, has it been absolutely confirmed that RCA is indeed discontinuing the F38310? I know Sound & Vision published a statement to that effect a couple of months ago, but Circuit City and other stores continue to not only carry them, but are pushing them in their Sunday newspaper ad inserts.

Tom B.
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