IBM P260 21" Monitor (Trinitron): Colorful Grenade Failure - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 11-01-2013, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I love my giant IBM P260 21" monitor, but it is about to grenade itself. On cold start up the screen will repeatedly flash a bright, pure red with a very bright diagonal scan line. It does this a few times and then settles down and works fine. Only very, very occasionally, after it has been running a while and is fully warmed up, will the screen, for a split second, snap to all red. This problem has gotten progressively worse over the last few weeks or so and it looks like the end is right around the corner. Any thoughts as to what is failing? In the past on this monitor I have done the excessive brightness resistor kludge, which I later undid after getting a proper TTL to RS232 cable and a copy of WinDas, so if someone can point me in the right direction, I am sure I could fix this new problem -- any takers? smile.gif
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post #2 of 17 Old 11-04-2013, 10:06 PM
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looks similar to the issue this person's having
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post #3 of 17 Old 11-06-2013, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for replying. Yes, that would be pretty much it -- my monitor is just not yet to the point of it cutting itself off like the one in the video. What sucks is my current monitor replaced my blown IBM 275 (Trinitron) that had the same thing happen to it but the flashing that led to it failing was green, otherwise, it was the same frickin' thing.
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post #4 of 17 Old 11-07-2013, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antarctico View Post

...my monitor is just not yet to the point of it cutting itself off like the one in the video.

Well, I have reached that point today -- turned it on, the screen flashed red, the start up relay kicked out, and the picture died. I cycled the power button and then it turned on properly. The next time this happens I'll try to keep my wits about me long enough to count the number of blinks on the power light. In a word, derp.

I just checked the failure log of my monitor using Windas:

** SHUTDOWN_LOG_0 **
1-No H pulse : Normal
1-No V pulse : Normal
1-HV Stop : Normal
1-HV OVP : Normal
1-ABL : Error
1-No PW Supply : Normal
1-+B OVP : Normal
1-ThermalDetect: Normal

Anyone know what an ABL error means? smile.gif Automatic Brightness Limiter (thank you Internet).
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post #5 of 17 Old 11-07-2013, 01:34 PM
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i'm guessing the ABL kicked in and shut down the monitor to protect itself. Did the screen look excessively bright before it shut down? If not, you can perhaps try changing the ABL value.
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post #6 of 17 Old 11-07-2013, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by spacediver View Post

i'm guessing the ABL kicked in and shut down the monitor to protect itself. Did the screen look excessively bright before it shut down? If not, you can perhaps try changing the ABL value.

Yes, it was blindingly bright red before it shut itself off.
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post #7 of 17 Old 11-07-2013, 03:00 PM
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try reducing the Drive_Max value and see if that helps.
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post #8 of 17 Old 11-07-2013, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post

try reducing the Drive_Max value and see if that helps.

My Drive_Max is currently at 210 (out of a maximum possible value of 255). As I understand it, Drive_Max sets the upper range of the monitor's contrast. Are you thinking my current Drive_Max level is over driving my monitor in some way, or am I misunderstanding your suggestion? Thanks for your help!
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post #9 of 17 Old 11-08-2013, 12:10 AM
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yes that was my thinking.

Anyhow, i'd follow lagrunauer's advice in the hardforum thread and go through the white point balance adjustment. If you have a spectro/colorimeter, this will be even better, but doing it by eye may do the job.
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post #10 of 17 Old 11-08-2013, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post

yes that was my thinking.

Anyhow, i'd follow lagrunauer's advice in the hardforum thread and go through the white point balance adjustment. If you have a spectro/colorimeter, this will be even better, but doing it by eye may do the job.

Lagrunauer's suggestion comes from a guy who makes a living selling, servicing, and refurbishing monitors, so I am not surprised when his blanket suggestion is non-diagnostic, complex to perform, and requires specialized hardware and expertise. And, from skimming the HardForum thread, it is clear he does more than a little business calibrating GDM-FW900 monitors for thread followers. Still, having never tried WinDas's white point balance procedure before, I gave it a try and unfortunately the procedure is absolutely not eyeball-able and I do not have a access to a colorimeter. It was certainly interesting seeing what adjustments to the various registry values did to the image quality, but without adjustment hardware, there was no safe and useful way to perform the steps of the procedure. Fortunately, I had backed up my monitors settings using WinDas, so I was able to upload them back to my monitor and not suffer any harm from my experiment.

Regarding eyeball adjustments, I can say my monitor's white point, black point, gamma and color accuracy are well adjusted to non-professional standards through my the use of the OSD controls and the usual reference images. Unfortunately, getting a colorimeter right now is just not in the budget. smile.gif
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post #11 of 17 Old 11-08-2013, 10:42 PM
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but it may restore the guns to a within spec level, so the ABL doesn't kick in. Worth having slightly inaccurate colors (which you can fix later with OSD) in return for a functioning monitor.

edit: maybe i misunderstood - you tried it after you had this problem and it didn't fix it? Or you had tried it in the past?
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post #12 of 17 Old 11-09-2013, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post

but it may restore the guns to a within spec level, so the ABL doesn't kick in. Worth having slightly inaccurate colors (which you can fix later with OSD) in return for a functioning monitor.

edit: maybe i misunderstood - you tried it after you had this problem and it didn't fix it? Or you had tried it in the past?

I did try the procedure yesterday, but it was clear half way through that without calibration hardware, I was doing more harm than good, so it seemed the smart thing to do was to bail and restore my previous settings. I did some checking on ebay, and I found a selection of entry level colorimeters ranging from $40-$80, so I am thinking I may try to grab one after the holidays are over and just try tweaking my ABL Limit as a banaid in the meantime, assuming the monitor not starting continues and gets worse. I ended up adjusting my G2 level down a bit as my monitor had gotten slightly brighter in the several months since I first adjusted it, and I readjusted my color with the OSD (my gain settings for RGB are now much more even for the same color balance), and my monitor is behaving better today, it started up on the first go and with much less red flashing. I don't know if my readjustments helped here or if, maybe, my monitor was just having a good day. wink.gif

Thanks again for helping out! smile.gif
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post #13 of 17 Old 11-09-2013, 03:00 PM
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excellent stuff, look forward to hearing about your progress.

For what it's worth, if you can get your hands on a used DTP-94, you'll be served well, as this instrument seems to be very accurate for trinitron phosphors.

See here and here
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post #14 of 17 Old 11-10-2013, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post

excellent stuff, look forward to hearing about your progress.

For what it's worth, if you can get your hands on a used DTP-94, you'll be served well, as this instrument seems to be very accurate for trinitron phosphors.

See here and here

Thanks for the recommendation. It took all of 30 seconds or so to find a few vendors on ebay that were offering them. smile.gif
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post #15 of 17 Old 11-11-2013, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I was thinking this morning about my red flash issue at start up and how I could rephrase my Google search to provide some better information and I when I searched again I found this about Red, green, or blue full on - fog over picture which perfectly describes what I am seeing. So, based on this, it seems one possible cause for what I am seeing is an intermittent H-K short in my CRT and perhaps the reason the symptoms were lessened after my adjustments was, before I did them, I took the back of the case off and put my monitor face down on its screen to visually checking for obvious bad components and this may have shifted a flake of junk in my CRT. I think I may try flipping my monitor on its face and very gently tapping it to see if this has any effect. Man, CRTs are some seriously mad-scientist-strange technology. smile.gif
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post #16 of 17 Old 11-11-2013, 10:57 AM
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heh interestnig - if you're really interested, you can invest in a second hand sencore CR70, which can deal with these issues quite elegantly. Here's the awesome Randy Fromm talking about the CR7000 (which is like the CR-70 but can do all three guns simultaneously).
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post #17 of 17 Old 11-11-2013, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacediver View Post

heh interestnig - if you're really interested, you can invest in a second hand sencore CR70, which can deal with these issues quite elegantly. Here's the awesome Randy Fromm talking about the CR7000 (which is like the CR-70 but can do all three guns simultaneously).

Ah ha, I already found this PDF! smile.gif

Indeed, it does seem to be an intermittent short in the tube. While I have not been able to tap away the H-K short, as a test, I was able to make it happen by rapping lightly on the exposed glass area of the neck just past the first ring of adjustment magnets. For each rap the screen would go full red -- it was 100% repeatable. I did flip the monitor on its screen, unplugged it, and did some more sustained rapping, but it did not clear the short. Perhaps, I was not hitting it hard enough, but not knowing how much of an impact I could get away with, I tried staying on the conservative side. So, I will probably have to try zapping it away, either with a tester like the Sencore, or if I really want to try it on the cheap, with a charged capacitor (I am really not too keen on this second option).

I guess knowing the source of a problem is the most important step in trying to resolve it, so I have that going for me, at least. This will be the second Trinitron monitor that failed like this on me, so maybe the cost of getting used tester is not unjustifiable. Looking on ebay, it is kind of funny how the price for these old CRT testers is all over the place -- go figure.
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