Banding on a Sony Trinitron - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 12-04-2013, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi, I have a 7.5 year old Sony WEGA 27" tube TV. Lately, I started noticing some faint horizontal banding covering the entire screen. I have been searching in vain for any clue as to what could be causing this. Perhaps it's just the picture tube nearing the end of it's life. But, I'd like to know if it's something simpler that I can correct myself and possibly get more life out of it. If not, what the heck I tried. It's there across all inputs except when I'm watching a digital channel being broadcast in HD. It is more nocticable when the brightness is turned up against darker backgrounds or if I'm looking the cable online guide (solid colors). The bands are perfectly straight and close together (pinstripe effect), but not well defined. Just for the heck of it, I checked my other older Zenith TV and sure enough it had similar banding although the lines were not as straight or pronounced.

The set also has some other issues, The color balance is off (no good greyscale, red push). I took the the back off and adjusted the G2 to no avail. I have it connected to a surge protector that also protects against EMI/RFI as well thinking it might be some sort of interference. Messed with the internal color settings. It's probably time for an upgrade but any feedback is appreciated. Thanks.
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post #2 of 20 Old 12-04-2013, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazebstrd View Post

Just for the heck of it, I checked my other older Zenith TV and sure enough it had similar banding although the lines were not as straight or pronounced.

Have you tried another source since this TV does it too?

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post #3 of 20 Old 12-05-2013, 09:26 AM
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I'd suggest another video and electrical source. I'd start with disconnecting the cable feed and cable box from the TV. If running the cable coax through the "surge protector", bypass and/or remove that next to troubleshoot.
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post #4 of 20 Old 12-06-2013, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, all sources show the same thing except for over the air digital signals broadcast in HD 16:9 aspect ratio, with and without cable or antenna connected. Plugged into a different outlet no difference. Turned off and unplugged everything in the house to rule out interference, no change. I need to get to the bottom of this before I consider buying a new TV. I don't want the same thing to happen to it. Thanks for the responses.
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post #5 of 20 Old 12-06-2013, 12:44 PM
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Now I'm concerned you may be experiencing a case of Murphy's Law with the two TVs. In the case of the Zenith I've seen CRT's produce trace lines that are 'somewhat' horizontal but zig-zag in a slight stair-step pattern; I can make one do this by turning the Screen or Sharpness knob on the HV transformer one direction (I also had a TV malfunction and do this to an extreme).

"Yes, all sources show the same thing except for over the air digital signals broadcast in HD 16:9 aspect ratio, with and without cable or antenna connected."

Does this Sony have a built-in digital OTA (ATSC) tuner? And does this mean you see the problem when the broadcast isn't HD 16:9? I don't understand "with and without cable or antenna connected" (i.e. you're not going to receive any digital signal without an antenna connection).

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post #6 of 20 Old 12-06-2013, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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No, these aren't the diagonal retrace lines that you get from turning up the screen knob on the flyback transformer. I already tried that. These lines are different. Yes, this TV has a separate digital tuner. When watching an over the air HD channel (broadcast in 720I or 1080I) the lines are not there. Even if i unplug the antenna there will be no picture but the lines are not there. As soon as I switch to a station that is broadcasting in analog (480I) the lines reappear. To me the lines look like some kind of EMI but my surge protector is supposed to filter that out so I'm at a loss.
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post #7 of 20 Old 12-06-2013, 01:22 PM
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How about this, think you could show us a photo or a video of the problem?
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post #8 of 20 Old 12-06-2013, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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It's so faint I doubt my camera will be able to pick it up but i will try.
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post #9 of 20 Old 12-06-2013, 01:49 PM
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"No, these aren't the diagonal retrace lines that you get from turning up the screen knob on the flyback transformer. I already tried that."

I was referring to the Zenith - that TV too?

"Yes, this TV has a separate digital tuner."

Yes to my built-in tuner question or do you mean you're using an external tuner box?

What are you inputting to your Zenith? (I'm suspecting since it's older it doesn't have a digital OTA tuner).

I'm suspicious of the tuner if it's external and the only source used for your experiments. Now if you've also been trying say a DVD player, VCR, etc. then it looks like the Sony's 480i circuitry (of course there's also the issue of what the tuner, if external, is set to output); in this case would be interesting to try an upscaling DVD player or Blu-ray player (i.e. some other source that you could change the video output format 480i/480p/1080i*).

*Note: I'm skeptical a Sony WEGA 27" can accept a 720p signal on an external input port.

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post #10 of 20 Old 12-06-2013, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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The lines on the Zenith are similar to the Sony. They are not the retrace lines you get from turning up the screen output. The Sony has a separate internal digital tuner, not the Zenith. The Zenith has a cable converter connected to it. However, the lines appear whether the cable is connected or not. The Sony has the lines with both the digital tuner and the analog tuner. With the exception of when the OTA signal is being broadcast in 1080I or 720p. The TV can receive these broadcasts however since it's an SDTV it does not show them in HD. Hope that clears things up.

I'm trying to upload a photo but it doesn't seem to be working. It just says uploading and nothing happens. Could someone assist me with this as I am new to this forum?

Thanks.
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post #11 of 20 Old 12-06-2013, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Notice the faint horizontal lines.
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post #12 of 20 Old 12-06-2013, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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This is the Zenith.
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post #13 of 20 Old 12-06-2013, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazebstrd View Post

The Zenith has a cable converter connected to it.

Based on that piece of info, assuming you mean a cable box (Time Warner, Charter, etc.) and not an ATSC digital to analog converter box, and assuming the Zenith has the same 'new' problem* as the Sony I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you have a conducted problem (i.e. noise through your outlets and/or other connection paths like the ground side of the coax or any A/V connections). With the Zenith on a cable box it's highly unlikely it's a radiated problem unless the source of radiation is extremely powerful. As far as the broadcast dependency on the Sony, that's a weird one but could be because of the different filtering implemented for HD broadcasts (or even the HD to SD conversion).

*Very unlikely but Murphy's Law would allow both TVs to have developed the same internal circuit problem at the same time (ex: due to lightning). lol

Hey I had a weird noise problem once that only occurred when turning on two TVs that were both connected via a splitter to the same antenna. Didn't happen with just one TV on but only affected the cheaper TV (probably lesser noise filtering). Turned out there was still a cable company ground wire hooked to my house electrical ground (I don't have cable service) and it quit when I disconnected the wire; I suspect a bad cable distribution amp or the like downstream.

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post #14 of 20 Old 12-06-2013, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I tend to agree with your evaluation. It's weird that it showed up almost overnight after all these years. It's possible that it could have been there all along and I just started noticing it but I doubt it. Also strange that my surge protector isn't filtering it out. Perhaps it's not strong enough or just not working. The question is what do I do now? Buy some expensive line conditioner and hope that filters it out or just try to live with it? Or buy a new TV HDTV and hope it doesn't have the same problem. I recently had a new water meter installed that has an RF transmitter on it. Gas meter the same way was installed a couple years ago. I'm wondering if one of these could be the source of the interference. If it is I have no idea how to isolate it. Anyway, thanks for the responses.
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post #15 of 20 Old 12-06-2013, 05:37 PM
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Okay, now that I see your band, is it moving or is it stationary?
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post #16 of 20 Old 12-06-2013, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Stationary
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post #17 of 20 Old 12-07-2013, 08:46 AM
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No, surge protectors don't provide this level of filtering unless it's a high-end model, but then it would most likely be a signal conditioner with surge protection. It's possible the TV plugged directly into the outlet gives the TV a more solid ground return and hence better capable of filtering noise. Also if the surge protector has coax connections you bypassed it as Ratman suggested.

If your computer has a separate line conditioner you could borrow it and test the TV using it.

Might even contact the coax ground to earth ground and see if there's any change.

As far as your home electrical make sure there's a good earth ground connection where power enters your home.

Yeah it's possible the gas or water utility is the culprit and they're responsible for fixing their problem. Could be a simple earth ground connection issue at their sensor. If your experiments seem to point to this than you can probably get them to check it out.

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post #18 of 20 Old 12-07-2013, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I was able to adjust the screen output to get an acceptable picture on both TVs. The banding is still present on the Sony but not as noticeable.

I checked for electrical interference with an AM radio switched tuned between channels. I was finally able to determine that my new cable box was causing loud buzzing throughout my entire electrical system. Unplugging it had no effect on the TV picture tho. It otherwise seems to be working OK. Right now this is my only suspect. My plan is to see if I can replace it. Have any of you ever heard of anything like this? This can't be normal.

This may seem far fetched and maybe I'm over thinking this, but, my theory is that the faulty set top box was the source of the interference and caused burn in on both TVs. Hence the reason the lines are still visible when the box is unplugged. Perhaps, after awhile the lines will fade. Let me know what you think.

My electrical is double grounded. It's code here. I tightened up the cable and electrical grounds to my plumbing.

I have no line conditioner on my computer, just a surge protector. The surge protector is rated at 58db. Line conditioners I looked at online only seemed to go up to 70-80db.
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post #19 of 20 Old 12-07-2013, 11:10 AM
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An unwanted DC voltage on the coax center pin of the cable box could cause damage if not DC blocked before the TV input. Also a higher than usual AC voltage. But doesn't explain the Sony unless you hooked the box up to it or have the two TVs combined together on the coax in some manner.

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post #20 of 20 Old 12-07-2013, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm....not sure about all that but I did check the voltage and it's pretty much dead on 120V.

The box is connected to the Sony.

The Zenith is connected through a digital adapter. (just standard channels)

Both are connected to cable from split lines.

Anyway, Comcast is supposed to come out tomorrow so we'll see.
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