Several Issues with Sony KV-32XBR36 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 09-24-2014, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Several Issues with Sony KV-32XBR36

Well, I will start by saying this. IIRC, this CRT was made in 1993. A friend of the family owned it and we paid $40 for it when they moved. It wasn't used very regularly there but it's used for several hours a day here. About a month after we brought it home, it started having powerup issues. This was a delayed start that got worse until suddenly it didn't do anything and just shut off a couple seconds after being turned on. The C661 and C662 caps were replaced to cure that issue.
New issues popped up. Ever since the repair, and for a little bit of time before it, there are horizontal lines across the screen. They seem to march in either direction vertically, The lines are not there for a few minutes before the system warms up, and then you can't get rid of them. I've turned the NR on and even tried adjusting everything I could in service mode to no avail.
I have also been trying to get the screen to display blacks as dark as possible to no avail, and it seems the entire display is too bright even though I have dropped out the BRIGHT and PICTURE levels.
But that's not the real current troubling issue. Right now, the TV has the 3-blink code, I think (the pauses, if there are any, are too quick to tell), and takes several minutes before anything is displayed on the screen. If anything other than just a plain screen with, say, (as it is right as I type this) MUTING is displayed, the screen will stay on as long as you want it to. You input a video signal and the screen displays mostly nothing period until whatever issue is temporarily out of the way and then the screen will show a video input for a few seconds, maybe a minute, before the screen goes completely black again. I've seen this described as "blinking".
I have a service manual, a decent soldering iron (needs new tip and decent solder), and am well versed in soldering (except surface mount). I already know this is an old TV but it was pretty expensive when bought and throwing it to the dump would just be a shame for a simple fix. Please help!
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post #2 of 30 Old 09-25-2014, 09:14 AM
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1993 curvy tube TV?
Electronic recycling.
Find a much newer flat screen CRT for free or dirt cheap on Craigslist.
Tell that "friend of the family" they owe you a bunch of money back; heck you've had to move the beast and already repaired it once a month later. I'd be POed.

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post #3 of 30 Old 09-25-2014, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, the thing is..
1. They moved.
2. This TV was working decent for a year and a half before I had to replace C661 and C662, and that was 6 months ago. I said that the delayed start began a month after this TV was bought (by us as used) and got longer and longer over time until the C661 cap blew up (literally looked like a rancid soup can that exploded... the bottom blew right out of it) and the TV no longer turned on or produced sound. And yes, the G board was thoroughly cleaned. It's the only clean board in there right now (the rest is covered in dust and crap).
3. We really can't afford a new one, especially one we can actually read from across the room (27 or larger, all we have are 20s right now and one has a bad coax jack).
4. And thanks to new laws passed within the last year, I would have to pay to recycle this thing. I had to pay $40 years ago to recycle a PC. I can't imagine how much for this behemoth. Heck, thanks to local regs passed years ago, it's $8 just for the oversize sticker for the trash man to take it. Not counting carting it to the curb and being without anything at all.

I just want to fix this thing without paying an arm and a leg and my firstborn for it. I don't see any reason NOT to fix it. It's got a spectacular picture when it's working right and the sound is amazing for just a TV.

Now, which IC is giving me fits? The one mentioned in other Sony problem threads isn't in this TV, at least not that I can find in the service manual.

Last edited by martianent; 09-25-2014 at 03:37 PM.
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post #4 of 30 Old 09-25-2014, 04:32 PM
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Oh OK, sounds like you sort of got your money's worth. I thought it died a month later.

I got several flatscreen CRTs for free off CL. One is even HD with a built-in HD tuner. I see 'em cheap all the time but many are free because they just want someone to haul off the beast as they enjoy their new flat panels. Sounds like you should have the advantage that they don't want to spend a recycling fee (although that could be a trade-in incentive).

Best buy takes them free up to 32" but we have to take them there (Texas and other states). Somehow I suspect you're in California if you have to pay to recycle; wherever that is it's ridiculous, just promotes illegal dumping.

Yeah most of the Sony IC stuff is for the last of their CRTs. That one's pretty old and this CRT forum is pretty much abandoned, might try the search function for old posts. GL!

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post #5 of 30 Old 09-25-2014, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Nope. Worse than CA... NY. Laws went into effect Jan 1.

I can get another 36" for free but I don't think it's much younger than this one and we have had rather cruddy luck with RCA TVs (the 20" one I mentioned with the bad coax is an RCA and the one we had before it had a slew of issues right out of the box...). Seriously, we had a Sylvania 27" console up until a couple years ago. It died in 2000 or so (no pic at all) and was basically a useless stand for a couple of the 20" TVs until we finally got rid of it when we bought this one used. I'd rather this Sony didn't suffer the same fate. Would be a shame since it actually has a nice pic when it produces one.

And I like to tinker around... Good way to kill time during long winters. Any idea what board I should be looking at even?

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post #6 of 30 Old 09-26-2014, 10:37 AM
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Yeah that one is too old and heavy to mess with. Don't care for Thomson/RCA TVs either, way before the Thomson era RCA was a great brand. I won't touch any CRTs that I can't pick up myself (27" and less) unless they're the last few years of CRTs and the better brands.

Coax note: The RF/coax connection gives the worst quality pic. Say for example with a converter box I use the composite connection (better) and a few boxes even have s-video (best of those 3). Ironically my ol' '93 GE (Thomson) 27" has a flaky coax input but works fine on composite and s-video; I think the coax accidentally got yanked cracking something in the RF tuner box.

I had another ol' '93, a Thomson/RCA 31" that exhibited faint horizontal scan lines that retrace in a diagonal pattern against a too bright screen upon power up, and then it would shut down a few seconds later. It appears to have been in the dangerous HV section driving the picture tube (never repaired, took to Best Buy for recycling). I could emulate the screen appearance by adjusting the screen knob on another CRT's HV transformer too far in one direction. I suspect the second part of your problem is akin to my 31" shutting down - that is your TV is detecting a problem, going into a 'safe' standby mode, and then displaying an error code. Hopefully someone here can tell you the meaning of that error code.

P.S. I have some customized Craigslist TV search links. If you tell me the most relevant city from this list I can tailor them for your use:

http://geo.craigslist.org/iso/us/ny

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post #7 of 30 Old 09-26-2014, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I think the coax on the 20" RCA might have come partially unhooked from the system board at some point... We had a slew of video game RF units hooked to it at one point and they might have been too heavy for it. The screen would go weird and all I had to do was pull up on the group of RF converters to get it working again... I'd take the back off of it and fix it but it's kind of useless now since I sold all of the video game equipment in February, so I'll leave it as is and use the AV inputs if necessary. We use the coax connection because we always have... cable boxes didn't used to have AV outputs. And I don't think it has composite video input (not that it really matters on a SD CRT 20" TV).

Anyways, back to the Sony... There is no error code displayed by the Standby light when the screen starts going on and off. It only blinks before the CRT shows a display. I stared at the light for a minute this morning and I still can't tell of a pattern to the blinks. And I'm used to the old GM OBDI blink codes. The lines I described before are straight horizontal, not diagonal. Sometimes they're just there being annoying, sometimes they're going up slow, sometimes fast, sometimes reverse and go down... Still straight across the screen.

I came across these sites doing a Google search. One lists one problem (flashing) and the other lists the other (lines).

(stinking site won't let me post links due to low post count... bah!)

Now, IIRC (haven't watched any in a while), B&W movies/shows looked normal, but I haven't had the opportunity to watch any in a year (since the caps were replaced and these newer issues started). I can't remember when they are on. I do have a green tint in the black portions of the screen when watching 16:9 format shows modified for standard video displays and letterbox. I've been trying to get those bars black forever...

I'm beginning to think a recap is in order since I'm sure more than the 2 I already replaced are on their death beds if not already dead.

How often do these picture tubes crap out?
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post #8 of 30 Old 09-27-2014, 02:19 PM
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Composite is the single yellow RCA connector A/V input. Maybe if you're sitting far away but closer you'd be surprised. Even my Sony SD 20" has component input (RCA red, green, and blue) which is used for analog HD on HD sets. It's not just the 'clearness' that goes up with each type of input but also the color, contrast, black level, etc. Also, some devices only output mono audio on RF/coax.

OK, I see in your original post that you thought it had a 3-blink code. So I take it that when it eventually goes black there's no light blinking. As far as the lines an expert here, if they ever show up, is probably going to want to see a photo.

Indeed if those caps you replaced died on their own accord then there's probably plenty more like them inside (I suspect electrolytics).

Yeah it's a 'long in the tooth' picture tube. Blacks exhibiting green tint could be a sign. My '93 GE 27" started exhibiting weak red several years ago and it was just a bedroom TV. The best I could get the red was a dark orange-ish sort of red. This affects the blacks, whites, and any colors that rely on red. I think the red phosphors of the tube degraded.

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post #9 of 30 Old 09-28-2014, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I had more of a chance to watch the Status light and it's a 9-blink code. Difficult to tell but I watched it through several cycles. Still no Status light when CRT is cutting out.

In one of the sites I tried to link to above (I think I might try again), the lines and the color differential were because of the Y/C Jungle chip on the E1 board, the IC302, CXA1465AS. Finding this chip and the CXA1545S (U board) is proving to be a pain. As much of a pain as getting the E1 board out for service is looking like it's going to be (is it really soldered to the A board? That's kind of silly).

Yes, C661 and 662 were electrolytics, 220uF, 20%, 35V. Not too sure about the replacements I got from RadioShack, but at least the TV is powering up now. I'm seriously debating replacing the rest of them on the power G board, but some of them are proving to be difficult to find on Mouser and Digi-Key.
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post #10 of 30 Old 09-29-2014, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martianent View Post
In one of the sites I tried to link to above (I think I might try again), the lines and the color differential were because of the Y/C Jungle chip on the E1 board, the IC302, CXA1465AS.
If by chance it has an s-video input and you have an s-video source, try this input (Y/C different so might bypass this circuit).

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post #11 of 30 Old 09-30-2014, 07:53 AM
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post #12 of 30 Old 09-30-2014, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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S-video input is on video 1...

Problem now is that the cable converter doesn't have s-video... It has coax, optical, and RCA AV out, but not s-video...

Rather than screwing around swapping the converters between 2 tv's (rather extraneous for a temporary setup for testing), can I get away with connecting the s-video cable between the DVD player (which is what the cable output is directly connected to) and the tv? Do I need the DVD player turned on to get the cable output? I already have the AV cables connected (RCA connections) and disconnecting the one RCA isn't hard, but I need to know if I need the DVD powered up because I will need an outlet strip if so (DVD isn't plugged in at the moment). DVD player manual doesn't tell this, of course.
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post #13 of 30 Old 09-30-2014, 08:32 PM
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Yes, any s-video source will do and yes it does need to be active.

I'm assuming you tried another video source on this TV. A bad video source can cause some whacky problems that makes us think the TV is at fault.

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post #14 of 30 Old 10-01-2014, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll try another video input with the AV cables before I shell out for an S-video cable. There's 3 to choose from, so this won't take long. Both the cable converter and DVD player are on the primary circuit (not aux video input) at current.

:edit: Same problem with AV cables... Going to try S-video when I get one... Used video 3 (front panel connector) and still blinking.

Last edited by martianent; 10-01-2014 at 04:03 PM.
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post #15 of 30 Old 10-01-2014, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martianent View Post
I'll try another video input with the AV cables before I shell out for an S-video cable. There's 3 to choose from, so this won't take long. Both the cable converter and DVD player are on the primary circuit (not aux video input) at current.

:edit: Same problem with AV cables... Going to try S-video when I get one... Used video 3 (front panel connector) and still blinking.
Well, this time I unplugged the set for about 15 minutes and plugged it back in. Turned it on to the same result. Switched to Video 1 with nothing connected to get solid black screen. Got a positive confirmation on the 9-blink code because the STBY light blinked 9 times and the screen came on with "VIDEO 1" in the corner when turned off and immediately back on again.

My downloaded service manual is missing pages 131-134... F17 chassis. Don't know if the pertinent info is on those pages or not, but I do know the STBY blink codes are NOT with the Troubleshooting section.
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post #16 of 30 Old 10-02-2014, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I shot 2 videos this morning with my digital cam... The first is first powering this thing on and several minutes afterwards with the blinking STBY light. The second is about 15 minutes after that. 5 minutes after I cut off the first recording, the TV came on and started its "blinking". 10 minutes later I hit RECORD again because the TV was showing the lines when it was on and not blinking. Just to show that yes, I do have marching horizontal lines and no, the light isn't blinking with the screen cutting in and out. My dumb butt didn't turn the set off and back on again hot, so I'm going to have to make another recording...

I haven't gotten them off of my cam yet and it will have to wait until I'm done with work for the day before I can post to either YouTube or Photobucket...
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post #17 of 30 Old 10-03-2014, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martianent View Post
Both the cable converter and DVD player are on the primary circuit (not aux video input) at current.
Are these two 'independent' sources or does one feed into the other? (i.e. referring back to my "I'm assuming you tried another video source on this TV. A bad video source can cause some whacky problems that makes us think the TV is at fault.").

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post #18 of 30 Old 10-03-2014, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Disconnected the coax from the CATV input, which is on the P3 board (actually it plugs into it remotely but it's only connected to the P3). Video AV 1-3 and the S-Video input are on the UT board. Only common link is that they're both connected to the main A board (connected between the P1 board and P3 board connector traces apparently) and the video out signal to the picture tube still runs through the Y/C Jungle on the E1 board before the actual tube board C.

And, my apologies, I read the wrong line.. It's an FN chassis...

Last edited by martianent; 10-03-2014 at 04:56 PM.
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post #19 of 30 Old 10-05-2014, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, tried the S-video input this morning. Great picture. When you can see it .

If my problem is with overheated solder joints that need to be refreshed, is it possible to just heat a good number of them up with a heat gun rather than one at a time with a soldering iron? I'm still planning on testing all of the caps individually for any bad ones and replacing what I can, but if all the solder joints need is to be reheated, what's the difference between a heat gun and a soldering iron? Assuming I can keep the parts from falling off of the boards by supporting them component side up, I can't see where it will hurt?
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post #20 of 30 Old 10-05-2014, 02:02 PM
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Yes. Many PCBs use IR reflow that does it all at once. In the lab I had a hot air machine which has the beauty of being very controlled temp. and a focusing nozzle.

With a heat gun you have to be very careful:

Overheating components and traces.
Blowing components off their pads.
Components falling off the other side of the PCB.

Best if you can focus on the solder joints and stop when you see they've melted.

Sometimes there's BGA IC's that are hard to deal with, usually big IC's. Their leads are underneath the chip (Ball Grid Array), I don't recall any with side leads too but that was years ago. This TV is kinda old though so may not have any.

P.S. It takes a ridiculous amount of heat for a solder joint to get overheated; for that to have happened something major would have had to go wrong. More likely solder joint issues are from mechanical stress, cold solder joints from the factory, or 'maybe' environmental (chemical, oxidation from being in a flood, etc.).

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post #21 of 30 Old 10-09-2014, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm pretty sure there aren't any BGA components in this thing. The service manual lists through-hole and flat package ICs only. I haven't had a way to open up the TV, since the cap repair a few months ago, yet. And of course, I can't see much through the vent slots, especially through the dust and crud.

I wouldn't be surprised by a few more bad caps assuming the age of this thing. How often do the other types (non-electrolytic) of caps fail? I'm just trying to figure out what I'm looking for. If I can pretty well rule something out, it's less money and time spent.

Went to RadioShack the other day and got a new 15W soldering iron (my 40W is getting pretty old now and needs a new tip anyways... I also think it might be a little hot if I need to replace anything and the tip is a little big... had a couple space issues replacing the caps), desoldering braid, and a small spool of solder.
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post #22 of 30 Old 10-10-2014, 09:03 AM
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'93? With normal to heavy use all kinds of active devices might be on the edge. Dust, temperature, humidity, etc. played a role too. My '93 RCA blew a non-electrolytic HV cap (a big rectangular one) after a few years, but hopefully that was a mfg issue. That final blow I mentioned before was something like ten years ago.

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post #23 of 30 Old 10-10-2014, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, it's late here. I'm going to unplug this thing overnight and see what it does in the morning. I will post the videos I made of the startup and lines/screen blanking of this thing then, when I can find my camera cable.

I looked through a couple of the other Sony problem threads and I just can't find anything similar to my problems. My Sony doesn't have the MC3001 chips, doesn't have the Service Menu fault codes (I can't even access the Service Menu via remote only... have to push the button in the back of the TV to get to Service Mode), and I'm not entirely sure when I'm going to have a spot for this thing to sit with the back off for a while. But I will find a way to restore this thing to its former glory (or at least get it to show a continuous picture on the screen).
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post #24 of 30 Old 10-11-2014, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, I figured I'd update with new findings. I managed to look into the vents in the side of the TV at the G board last night good enough to actually see something. So far I see 3 more caps that have puked their guts out, one looks like it's got its clothes around its ankles. I'm hoping I can find these caps in stores when I get access to the board.

Question... My metric is a little rusty and isn't very good in the really small numbers. A few of the cap values in the service manual are listed in picofarads, which is fine, but there are others in uF that are confusing and I need to convert to another unit to hope to find at Mouser... Some of these aren't electrolytic caps, but I would still need to find them if I have to replace them.

C602, 603, 605, 610, 622, 623: 0.0047 uF
C606-609: 0.082 uF
C657: 0.0022 uF
C669-70: 0.001 uF

Maybe picofarads?

Another question: Could there be a common cause for these caps to be blowing up other than age? I can see a couple in the entire TV having blown up relatively close to the same time, but these are all just towards the bottom (when installed) of the G board... And there's probably more up top but I can't really see up there with the back housing on...
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post #25 of 30 Old 10-11-2014, 09:12 AM
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Wow. Although I have seen good ones that look funky on the outside because of an aluminum case that oxidizes.

They should list them the same way but:

4.7 nF or 4700 pF
82 nF or 82,000 pF
2.2 nF or 2200 pF
1 nF or 1000 pF

[just keep moving the decimal point 3 places]

Something causing too high a voltage and/or current could blow 'em. And in some circuits one cap going bad could cause a domino affect on others.

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post #26 of 30 Old 10-11-2014, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, I guess. When I get the back off and the G board out, I'm going to clean up the dust and crud inside this thing and take a good look at ALL of the caps I can in this thing. I can tell the 3 caps on the G board are blown because the board is supported vertically on the bracket and I can see the yellow-brown goop running out the bottom of the caps on the board and in some cases over another part or 2. Hopefully once I get the caps taken care of, even if I have to replace ALL of them on the G board (so far the Mouser part list is $30), there won't be any more cascading failures for a while.

Still not sure what I'm going to do about the lines on the screen though. I might just replace the CXA1465 anyways while I'm in there..
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post #27 of 30 Old 10-11-2014, 03:18 PM
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Yeah that's too funky. You're onto something, hopefully that's it.

Speaking of tools, I got this amp clamp multimeter half price ($60, although on Amazon was ~$90 then, and suddenly now it's ~$75) on a Home Depot deal of the day, free shipping too. I needed a digital multimeter (with leads), plus this thing also measures current with the clamp around a wire (i.e. no break of circuit required) as well as [with the leads] capacitance, diodes, frequency, and [with included probe] temperature. Also has a cool feature that can detect a live circuit when the clamp is near the circuit (voltage detection, no current required) . If I see the deal pop up again I'll post it. Their deal of the day is on their home page, some stuff goes fast so I try to check it every morning. Here's the meter:

http://www.generaltools.com/CM660--N...on_p_2687.html

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post #28 of 30 Old 10-11-2014, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a Craftsman AC/DC 400A clamp meter already (kind of weird readings when it comes to resistance but seems okay otherwise). Basically does everything short of acting like a oscilloscope (like higher end Fluke meters I wish I could afford). I needed it to measure the output frequency of the airflow meter on my car a couple years ago...

Found most of my required caps... Having issues finding 6 of them, one being the 1000uF 200V (C604) cap. Do snap-in caps go into through holes? 2 of the 3 are snap-in only (C604 and 470uF 180V C651)... And finding a 4700pF 800V film cap (C610) is proving to be impossible...
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post #29 of 30 Old 10-12-2014, 09:15 AM
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Excellent. Sometimes auto-scaling gives weird readings depending on the value, so might try setting the range on some measurements. And in-circuit R measurements can get whacky due to other components. Yeah I'd love to have a Fluke but same $ issue here. I think this one will get me by for most of my digital multimeter needs to compliment my pair of analog VOM's (one a classic old Simpson I scarfed up a Motorola employee-only auction).

Can your meter measure caps? Many of the non-electrolytics are probably fine. BTW those low digit pF ones are typically for RF.

Yeah anything with a lead will be through-hole for strength due to their size&weight, although I have seen some old stuff with sort of sockets sticking off the PCB that they solder into. That big one sounds like that HV one I had to replace, took a lot of heat to solder. Was a big white plastic dude about an inch square. At the time I got it at a TV parts store but those are pretty much gone now. Some guys in this speaker group I'm in like to buy big audio caps from Parts Express so you might look there. May have to eBay it though or go to one of those electronic salvage stores if they still exist.

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post #30 of 30 Old 10-14-2014, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, my meter does caps, diodes, frequency, temperature, the basic stuff, and AC and DC current to 400A.

I've got 2 shopping lists going, one on Mouser and one on DigiKey. Basically the stuff I couldn't find on DigiKey is on the Mouser list. I'm not taking any more chances with this G board. I want this to be the LAST time I open this TV up before it gets pitched for whatever reason, so I'm going to just basically refresh all the caps that don't pass muster or look at me the wrong way . Since I obviously can't just get a replacement.

I am not 100% sure but I think the screen blinking is cyclical, Like the system is waiting for one or more of the bad caps to charge before lighting the screen. Screen lights, bad cap(s) discharge, screen goes out, cycle repeats. Still not sure about the lines. TV's been doing that since before the original cap repair...
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