Monivision 32” wide 16:9 CRT $775 Sale ends JULY 27th. - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 492 Old 06-10-2003, 11:37 AM
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>>By all accounts, this is basically the same display as the Princeton AF3.0HD (which Monivision was the OEM for I believe), same CRT, same video bandwidth, on which Joe Kane measured a vertical resolution of 720 lines.

According to my sources the only thing that is the same is the CRT. The electronics that drive that CRT are from Monovision, their design, and have nothing to do with Princeton. This may be a great product none the less but the analogy about Princeton/Monovision is incorrect and misleading.
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post #182 of 492 Old 06-10-2003, 11:49 AM
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Hi Richard,

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Monivision the OEM for Princeton for the AF3.0HD? That's what I had read somewhere.

Joe
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post #183 of 492 Old 06-10-2003, 12:02 PM
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Hi Jack G and all, thanks for the replies. Jack, I may take you up on that offer to travel north on the NJTP and help you calibrate the set!
Just let me know when. :) Sounds like a great setup you've got going. The two VGA ports may come in handy someday, but for now I've got the Vision box hooked up. I picked up a Panasonic DVD XP30 this morning to replace the cheapie I'd been playing with and it's made a world of difference. Colors and (especially) blacks are better than before, with much more shadow detail. Almost unimaginable quality for a combined price under $1000.

Richard,
Thanks for the clarification, I was basing that on various sources including the Digital Connection site and didn't intend to mislead.
Question: If the CRT and video bandwidth (40 Mhz) are the same, should the resolution be essentially the same?

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post #184 of 492 Old 06-10-2003, 02:03 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but even with a VisionBox installed, you are supposed to have 2 VGA ports. One in the back and one in the front. If you guys are referring only to the back ports then yes, you are limited to one with VisionBox installed. But if you include the front port, then you actually have 2 VGA ports with VisionBox or 3 without VisionBox. Thanks.
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post #185 of 492 Old 06-10-2003, 02:08 PM
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Yes I was talking about the rear vga ports. I don't think the 30" widescreen has a front VGA port. Maybe someone that has this monitor
can comment.

Joe
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post #186 of 492 Old 06-10-2003, 02:12 PM
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No ports at all in front on the 30".

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post #187 of 492 Old 06-10-2003, 04:18 PM
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That's surprising considering that my 38" DM7752ST has a VGA port in the front in addition to another one in the back (with VisionBox installed). I guess it has something to do with the size of the display. Thanks.
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post #188 of 492 Old 06-10-2003, 10:46 PM
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Jack G
>>Thanks for the clarification, I was basing that on various sources including the Digital Connection site and didn't intend to mislead.

I understand. Happens all the time. Who mislead them? It is a vicious cycle.

>>Question: If the CRT and video bandwidth (40 Mhz) are the same, should the resolution be essentially the same?

There are so many ways for manufacturers to state resolution and there is no single standard. The only resolution that matters is the resolution you can see on the screen with your eyes - can that level of detail actually be resolved. Typically it is up to a review magazine with a pattern generator to determine this. Potentially both products could have the same resolution but the electronics and design is different so I doubt they are equal on that level either. At this point the only thing I know for sure is you are getting a great CRT with good phosphors.

Jcardani,
>>Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Monivision the OEM for Princeton for the AF3.0HD? That's what I had read somewhere.

I forgot to ask that - sorry. I sincerely doubt that is true. But I have confirmed it from yet another source that the CRT and cosmetic bezel are the only things from the Princeton.
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post #189 of 492 Old 06-11-2003, 01:18 AM
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Geez now i have to figure out if i want 38" 4/3 or the 36" 16/9.
Almost the same price most places i've checked, I'll Blanca and ask her what kinda deal she can make me, thanks.
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post #190 of 492 Old 06-11-2003, 03:50 AM
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At this point the only thing I know for sure is you are getting a great CRT with good phosphors.
I'll take it. :) I guess that'd at least account for the great colors I'm seeing, that's the most striking thing to me given I haven't an HD source to guage the visible resolution.
After playing with XP30/progressive component last night, I've concluded (as JoeFloyd had mentioned previously) that the blacks are better through VGA. I'm assuming this is due to the bypassing of the vision box circuitry (and transcoder?). Mostly noticeable in a dark room when there's a full back field, more of a dark grey with some noise. Lessening brightness to get it black kills detail in actual scenes and in dark movies like Se7en. Gotta play with it some more, it's begging for an actual calibration.

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post #191 of 492 Old 06-11-2003, 05:56 AM
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Hi Jack,

Calibrating with Video Essentials (VE) or AVIA is not really that difficult once you master the objectives. Richard probably can agree there.

Each disc has its advantages and disadvantages. The original VE DVD is out of print but a new one is slated for July I believe. I have both VE and AVIA.

I would recommend an ISF calibration since they will have the colorimeter that is used to set the gray scale. Standard price is $225 I believe without any extra stuff (geometry adjust, color decoder adjust, etc). Richard probably can help more there.

I am not a certified ISF tech but here is how I normally calibrate a set:

I would start at the Brightness control (black level) first. AVIA has a great pattern to adjust black level that does not require your dvd to pass blacker-than-black. The pattern is also not dependent on whether a TV's black level changes with APL. (Some TV's can't hold black constant at low or high APL). APL = average picture level. The AVIA test pattern for black level shows 2 moving gray bars. Your objective is to turn brightness down to only see one of them.

Contrast should be adjusted next. This is really the white level. There is also a good test pattern for contrast in AVIA. Contrast should be set somewhere above the point where the bottom 1/2 of the pattern turns from gray to white and below 2 points:

1. It should be below the point where the top square starts blooming. There are 4 small blocks in the top portion of the pattern with the top being the brightest. Set the contrast below the point where the top block gets larger than the others.

2. Also, set the contrast below the point where the 2 needle pulse vertical lines start to bend. If they bend, it shows that the power supply is being taxed.

Contrast and Brightness do interact with each other so you may have to go back and re-adjust brightness again after you get the contrast correct.

Next I would adjust the sharpness if you have that capability to do so. Bring up the sharpness pattern in avia and simply adjust it down until you do not see any outlines (or ghosts) around any of the lines in the pattern.

Lastly color and tint should be adjusted. Start with the SMPTE color bars. While looking through the blue filter supplied with the dvd, adjust color until the 2 outer bars are of equal intensity. Then adjust tint with the 2 inner bars. Color and tint are interactive so you will have to go back and forth until all 4 are equal brightness.

After this check your reds in the pattern without looking thru the filter. Are they blooming (larger than the other colors)? If so you have some "red push" in the set. Simply turn down color to the point where the red bar starts to bleed. You can also use the red color bars pattern in avia.

You can also use the color decoder check in AVIA to see the intensity of each primary color (red, blue, green). Unfortunately I do not think the Monivision's color decoder can be adjusted like the Sony and Panasonic sets.

I hope this helps you get started in the right direction. Most of what I said is also in the AVIA and VE DVDs.

Again an ISF certified technician would be your best bet but doing the above does get things going in the right direction.

Good luck!

Joe
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post #192 of 492 Old 06-11-2003, 11:36 AM
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Lastly color and tint should be adjusted. Start with the SMPTE color bars. While looking through the blue filter supplied with the dvd, adjust color until the 2 outer bars are of equal intensity. Then adjust tint with the 2 inner bars. Color and tint are interactive so you will have to go back and forth until all 4 are equal brightness
For the progressive/HD component and VGA inputs,the set has seperate RGB Drives to adjust color.How would one go about calibrating color with these adjustments using AVIA?

Thanks
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post #193 of 492 Old 06-11-2003, 06:33 PM
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Hi Shawn,

No do not attempt to adjust the RGB settings! They are for grayscale adjustment not color. You need an expensive colorimeter to do that. This is where an ISF tech earns his keep!

Joe
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post #194 of 492 Old 06-11-2003, 07:33 PM
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Jack G,
>>I'm assuming this is due to the bypassing of the vision box circuitry (and transcoder?).

That could easily be.

Joe,
>>The AVIA test pattern for black level shows 2 moving gray bars. Your objective is to turn brightness down to only see one of them.

Excuse my laziness guys but when you go to this pattern go over to the question mark and check this. The Avia is designed to be used with those players and displays which cannot pass below black unlike Video Essentials.

As for contrast the first thing you are trying to determine is what is the actual useable contrast. This is defined as the maximum brightness you can achieve without throwing off the color temp or focus. The best way to determine this is to turn down the contrast significantly so you can see what this pattern really looks like with out a heavy load and in focus. From there turn it up until it changes color, becomes unfocused or changes size. At that point turn it down just a notch or two and you have now found out what the useable contrast level is. This may be too bright, just right, or not enough. Nothing you can do about not enough except reduce your ambient light. If it is too bright then turn down the contrast to reduce viewer fatigue which is a good thing anyway because that will keep the CRT in a linear operating range.

And if you want accuracy get it ISF calibrated (and with this CRT why wouldn’t you?). Yes, the national price is $225 for one scan rate - your area may vary.
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post #195 of 492 Old 06-11-2003, 08:28 PM
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To Everyone!

If you decide to go into the service menu, write all the factory settings down and save them!

Robert_W.
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post #196 of 492 Old 06-11-2003, 08:42 PM
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Not sure how this program stacks up to the other calibration ones out there, but it's free:

http://www.softpile.com/Multimedia/M...351_index.html

Seems to do an ok job.
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post #197 of 492 Old 06-11-2003, 09:36 PM
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Just got mine delivered today. Powered on fine, but ... there's a flaw in the glass right in the middle. :( it's not a bad pixel, it's really a small chip on the inside of the glass that's about the size of one pixel. dont really notice it most of the time, but i know it's there so i look for it. anyone else experience this? i'll find out tomorrow if they'll replace it, but what a pain in the butt ..
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post #198 of 492 Old 06-11-2003, 09:37 PM
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interesting little program. Unfortunately there wasn't much of anything for to change and my PC display has not been calibrated. Samsung Syncmaster 17GL1. Lucky?

forget the contrast and brightness thing. I have a no idea what they are trying to get me to see.
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post #199 of 492 Old 06-12-2003, 12:16 AM
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boy i dunno, maybe my expectations were too high or im just a total moron at setting it up correctly, but my initial impressions arent so hot. besides the aforementioned flaw in the glass, i dont think the picture quality is all that great.

first, i should say a 6-year old Sony 32" XBR CRT (pre-WEGA) is what i've been using up until this point.

so the first thing i did was run the Monivision through Video Essentials to set the contrast, brightness, and color (30, 40, and 45 respectively.) next, i plugged in my xbox via Monster component cable, and played some Rallisport challenge in 420p 16x9. not so bad i guess. couldnt really tell it was progressive. next, i played The Matrix, still through my Xbox. looks ok i guess. so i also popped Matrix onto my Sony for a side by side comparison (happened to have 2 copies of the Matrix.) the Sony has darker darks and a brighter picture and just looked much crisper overall, while the Monivision just seems washed out. no matter how i tweak contrast/brightness, still washed out. finally, i tried Eternal Darkness (also 420p 16x9) on my Gamecube (also via component video cable). washed out. i just could never find a setting where i could see details in the shadows, while not being washed out everywhere else.

finally, there's a 1.5" vertical band of very fine greenish static along the left side of the monitor. i mean you care barely tell it's there, but it's there. no matter what i use for input.

did i get a lemon? or am i just a boob?
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post #200 of 492 Old 06-12-2003, 05:55 AM
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Hi All,

Is the problem with Hamsterhuey an isolated one or is anyone else seeing a washed-out picture after calibration on the widescreen?

Joe
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post #201 of 492 Old 06-12-2003, 07:02 AM
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For me the picture quality looks excellent, but I have it hooked up to my HTPC via the vga input. The vga is what is going to give you the best picture quality.

Also, there is no greenish band on the side of my monitor. I would think that you probably have a damaged unit or the vision box is messed up. Either way I'd call for a replacement or for them to fix it.

If you're just going to use component video, I don't think you're really going to see the benefits of this monitor.
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post #202 of 492 Old 06-12-2003, 07:20 AM
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Canuck,

Thanks I feel a little better now :)

How's your black levels throught the VGA port?

BTW all of my sources will be RGB/HV so they will go direct to the VGA port.
However some newer set top boxes like the Motorola DCT5100 only have Component out (shame on Mot!). I wonder if another Component -> RGB transcoder may be better quality than the vision box? I know Key Digital and Audio Authority make these among others.

thanks,

Joe
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post #203 of 492 Old 06-12-2003, 08:03 AM
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I to get a band sometimes on my Monivision or a very thin line on the right side of the screen after it is on for a while it goes away but somtimes it turns megenta then white before it goes away anyone having that problem.

KJ
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post #204 of 492 Old 06-12-2003, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert_W
To Everyone!

If you decide to go into the service menu, write all the factory settings down and save them!

Robert_W.
How do you get into the service menu?

Thanks,
Shawn
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post #205 of 492 Old 06-12-2003, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jcardani
Hi Shawn,

No do not attempt to adjust the RGB settings! They are for grayscale adjustment not color. You need an expensive colorimeter to do that. This is where an ISF tech earns his keep!

Joe
I wonder why they make it so accessible.It's in the user menu and there's no other way to adjust color.There is a reset button at least ,so if you mess things up you're ok.

Btw,there are no RGB cuts in this menu.
Shawn
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post #206 of 492 Old 06-12-2003, 10:05 AM
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How long did it take you guys to get your set?

I placed an order last Tues. I was hoping I'd get it today or tomorrow.

Realistic thought or should I look to next week?

Later
G
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post #207 of 492 Old 06-12-2003, 10:56 AM
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GEO,

I had two units delivered to Minneapolis. They arrived two weeks after I placed the order.

Semi_expert
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post #208 of 492 Old 06-12-2003, 11:23 AM
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jcardani, black looks like it should -- black! Of course I'm not an expert on calibrating, but I've used those monochrome 10 bar pictures to make sure that all shades are displayed and everything looks great.

I ordered the monitor on a Friday and it arrived in Pittsburgh about a week and a half later (Tuesday). They're shipping them from California and total shipping was $210.
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post #209 of 492 Old 06-12-2003, 11:25 AM
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thanks Canuck!

Joe
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post #210 of 492 Old 06-12-2003, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
If you're just going to use component video, I don't think you're really going to see the benefits of this monitor.
But would component look more washed out than VGA? i would think the differences in image quality would be elsewhere.

Also, i looked at the monitor today in the daylight, while turned off. there are 2 flaws in the glass, and 2 dead pixels. anyone else have any flaws? im hoping they dont tell me that's within reason for a monitor this size. im like the princess and the pea with this sort of thing.

And finally, ~GEO~, mine arrived exactly 2 weeks after i ordered it. and i live right up the coast from the factory.
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