How are RCA F38310 owners doing? - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1202 Old 07-31-2007, 07:48 PM
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I was hoping for a simple solution. I dont know how or want to go into the service menu.

thanks anyway brother
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post #632 of 1202 Old 08-01-2007, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donyoop View Post

My JX-4 failed this past weekend. I could smell it. The picture was still up, but started to whack out. I quickly turned the set off. I came back to this thread to see what what happening with this set. In post 182, JoeFloyd has a jpeg file showing the CR14710 failure on the Deflection P/S. That is exactly the failure I had.

I'm wondering if anyone has had any luck with fixing this. I could not see any verification in this thread that it is fixable. It looks like JoeFloyd replaced the diode and had a repeat failure after 2 months. I do not wish to part with the image this set gives. 1700 volts is awful close to the 2k breakdown of this diode and given the pattern of this failure, it seems to be a design issue. I'm comfortable with soldering in the replacement diode, but I'm afraid I will need a service manual to try to understand the disassembly/assembly process. What a rats nest. But I am ready and willing to give it a try. If anyone has words of wisdom for me I would appreciate it. Thanks!

Don

To get the diode or the entire deflection P/S board, call the Sears parts and service center. The yellow pages or information should have the appropriate number for your area. Yeah, the service manual on CD would help. It has a list of reasonably simple steps for removing the deflection P/S.It doesn't appear as though you can remove and replace the diode without removing the board from the set. You can order the CD service manual through the Thomson electronics service website for about fifty dollars. I lost track of the web address but you should be able to narrow it down by entering "Thomson Electronics Service" on one of the search engines. Good luck. How many on-time hours (approx.) on your set when the diode failed by the way?
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post #633 of 1202 Old 08-01-2007, 02:51 PM
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Sludge:

Here's a suggestion that led to a highly satisfactory picture output (by my standards, anyway). Open the "picture settings" with your remote and make the following adjustments:

Contrast-bump it up to about 75% on the scale
Color-set it at 50%-right in the middle of the scale
Tint-same setting as Color
Black Level-set it right at 50%
Picture(?)- blow the fine tuning away or set it just one notch above 0%. All it does is make the picture a little grainey by boosting the contrast without boosting the brightness.

Try these settings and let us know if you're satisfied with the results.
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post #634 of 1202 Old 08-01-2007, 05:32 PM
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how about color warmth
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post #635 of 1202 Old 08-01-2007, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCA don View Post

Sludge:



Contrast-bump it up to about 75% on the scale
Color-set it at 50%-right in the middle of the scale
Tint-same setting as Color
Black Level-set it right at 50%
Picture(?)- blow the fine tuning away or set it just one notch above 0%. All it does is make the picture a little grainey by boosting the contrast without boosting the brightness.

Try these settings and let us know if you're satisfied with the results.


Picture (?) I have Sharpness as my last option. Is this the same as Picture? I placed it at 1 and it looks great. All of the settings you had listed is where I had them except for sharpness.I had it at 60%.
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post #636 of 1202 Old 08-01-2007, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCA don View Post

To get the diode or the entire deflection P/S board, call the Sears parts and service center. The yellow pages or information should have the appropriate number for your area. Yeah, the service manual on CD would help. It has a list of reasonably simple steps for removing the deflection P/S.It doesn't appear as though you can remove and replace the diode without removing the board from the set. You can order the CD service manual through the Thomson electronics service website for about fifty dollars. I lost track of the web address but you should be able to narrow it down by entering "Thomson Electronics Service" on one of the search engines. Good luck. How many on-time hours (approx.) on your set when the diode failed by the way?

Thanks, RCA don. I'm not sure how much on time is on the set. Except for power failure times, it has been plugged in continuously since Dec. 2001. I have put a lot of hours on this set. No failures until now. It seemed like this CR14710 failure is a soft failure in that it appears to be just a protection diode (albeit a critical high voltage one) and may just breakdown reverse bias after so many years of being exposed to 1700 volts. However, it appears that JoeFloyd had a contributing cause to the diode failure in that he had a repeat failure. I ordered the manual last night from Thomsen. Once I can see the schematic, then I hope to be able to figure out if I need to replace anything more than just the diode. I will then order the parts and have at it. Even if I don't succeed, this will be a fun little project.

Don
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post #637 of 1202 Old 08-01-2007, 07:36 PM
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Yeah, I meant the sharpness setting not the "Picture" setting. Just haven't felt a need or desire to change any of the settings for quite some time now. As for color warmth, I keep mine at normal, sometimes switching to warm to make the most of a really lush and rich DVD picture such as " A Walk in the Clouds." Donyoop: good to hear that the service CD is on the way. Post the procedure and results if you decide to go ahead with the diode replacement.
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post #638 of 1202 Old 08-06-2007, 03:48 PM
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This is my first post, which reflects how few problems I've had since getting my F38310 nearly six years ago. But I've had a nagging problem that doesn't seem to have cropped up for any other user, or at least, not that I can find mentioned on this board.

Here it is: I recently got a Tivo/DirecTV HR10-250 high def PVR and hooked it up to the component input of the F38310. The resulting picture for high def channels is superb, and standard definition is OK. BUT . . . inexplicably and without any apparent trigger, the screen goes haywire and about half the viewable area (bottom half) gets overrun by horizontal, thick-banded multicolored lines stretching from left to right across the screen. They occupy the screen for anywhere from a second to 30 seconds, then disappear and all is well again. I see this problem manifest itself three or four times a day. It happens ONLY on the component input, and I checked the HR10-250 on another TV and it works fine.

More information that could be helpful: I have noticed that the "Rainbow Lines" phenomenon happens when I have the Tivo in 1080i mode. If I get the rainbow lines, and switch the Tivo's output to 480i, the problem will correct itself. BUT . . . occasionally when receiving 480i, the F38310 screen goes blank and gives me the "weak signal" message. The duration of the message is about the same time range (1 to 30 seconds) as the Rainbow bars in 1080i, so I think it's the same issue that's just presenting a different symptom ("weak signal" versus multicolored lines.) Is something wrong with my component connector on the F38310? I've also tried connecting my Sony CX777es DVD changer to the component input, and again I get the dreaded "weak signal" message very frequently while watching a DVD. Also, the colors on the DVDs are washed out.

Can anyone give me any advice? I'd really appreciate it. I love this TV and it has served me well, but I'm worried that this problem may be the deciding point in getting rid of it . . .
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post #639 of 1202 Old 08-07-2007, 04:10 PM
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Part of your problem could be the number of times you're disconnecting and reconnecting devices to the component input of your TV. you could be slowly but surely loosening (i.e. dsstroying) the connection between the RGB(component) inputs and the video board. If, in fact, you have a video processor in the mix, my point is moot. If not, I'd suggest you acquire one. I replaced my Sony stereo receiver with a clearance-priced($160) Onkyo stereo/video processor with three component inputs and matching optical audio inputs earlier this year.The sound and the video throughput are great and I put an end to crawling behind the TV to swap component cables and wearing down the component input on my TV in the process. Sadly, my guess regarding the deterioration of your component input/video board connection could also explain the "rainbow lines" you describe. A faulty connection could cause to TV to not recognize the incoming signal from the device properly. I've seen lines like the ones you describe when I've set my upscaling DVD player to 720P, a signal that the F38310 doesn't accept. The result? Wavy video noise bars on the screen. To determine if the component video/video board connection could be the cause of your problems, unplug your set, remove the back panel , locate the component input and gently(very gently) press down on the input. Any looseness or movement of the connection indicates a possible, if not probable, source of your problems.
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post #640 of 1202 Old 08-07-2007, 04:33 PM
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... and even if the set is unplugged, I'd suggest that if you do any poking or prodding on the inside of the chassis, you use a non-conductive tool such as a wooden dowel as opposed to a finger or metal tool. One "oops" could easily become an "aw sh!t"
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post #641 of 1202 Old 08-07-2007, 05:10 PM
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Thanks very much for the reply, and your explanation sounds feasible that it could be some kind of deterioration in the component connector on the F38310. However, I would say that it's unlikely that any deterioration came about from wear-and-tear from switching devices . . . I've basically plugged and unplugged component cables on the TV perhaps four or five times in the six years I've owned the TV, so I really don't think that's very much. I really only started using the component inputs in the last year. Maybe they were faulty to begin with?

As for a video processor . . . I have a component video switcher that I just hooked up, and the same signal problems continue to persist. Not sure if a video switcher (it's made by a company called Impact) is what you mean by a video processor, though . . .

The point you made about seeing similar lines on your F38310 when 720P is connected is interesting. I have theorized at times that my problem could be due to my TV being overly-sensitive to what it perceives as incompatible signal variations from a source (i.e., for whatever reason, it sees 1080i as 720P and for a short interval it glitches the picture.) Why it would do that, I have no idea, but the problem seems to suggest that's what's going on.

Just out of curiosity, would the component input on the back of the F38310 be replacable? It seems like that's where the root of the problem likely is . . .
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post #642 of 1202 Old 08-07-2007, 05:53 PM
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YOU'RE RIGHT. FIVE OR SIX SWITCHES SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE ANY DAMAGE TO THE COMPONENT INPUT/VIDEO BOARD CONNECTION BUT YOU WON'T KNOW UNTIL YOU OR A SERVICE TECH CHECK IT OUT. IF THE CONNECTION IS IN THE PROCESS OF BREAKING DOWN, YOUR OR A SERVICE TECH SHOULD BE ABLE TO RESOLDER THE CONNECTION. THAT'S ANY ASSUMPTION BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE WITH OLDER TV'S. i HAD S-VIDEO AND COAX CONNECTIONS ON ONE OF THOSE TWENTY-YEAR OLD SONY'S RERAIRED AND THE CONNECTIONS WORKED FINE UNTIL THE PICTURE TUBE LOST IT'S BRIGHTNESS THREE OR FOUR YEARS LATER. TO MAKE THE REPAIR, THE VIDEO BOARD WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO BE REMOVED FROM YOUR SET. NOT CERTAIN ABOUT THAT, THOUGH. VIDEO SWITCHER, VIDEO PROCESSOR: YEAH, I USE BOTH TERMS TO DESCRIBE THE SAME DEVICE OR PROCESS.
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post #643 of 1202 Old 08-08-2007, 08:42 AM
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Hey all. I just picked one of these up off of craigslist for free last night. Of course it doesn't work, but thats where the fun begins.

I got it home, took the back off and tried to power it up. I hit the power button, and I can hear a chirping sound. It seems to be coming from the bottom board that handles all of the high voltage from what I can see. It sounds like the TV is trying to power up the high voltage, but can't. I can hear the sound five times or so, then the TV powers itself off, and back on again and the same thing happens. I would assume a cap or diode to be bad in that particular switching power supply. After about three of these on/off cycles, I noticed the distinct smell of burning electronics, so unplugged it.

I check the usual culprits, the diodes and caps on the power supply board. The caps look good, the cases aren't busted or bulging, and checking the diodes with the diode test of my DVM revealed that they are also seemingly good. The fans also turn on but then off again after the set powers itself off.

Before I just start ripping it apart and checking things, I just wanted to check to see is anyone has had a similar problem.

The TV is a YX5 revision, built in May of 2002. Any help would be appreciated.

[edit] Also, does anyone know where I can get my hands on a service manual. Should I just contact RCA?
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post #644 of 1202 Old 08-09-2007, 01:01 PM
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Update on my problem with the component inputs: it appears the F38310 was was designed with a slight offset in order to avoid an interference problem with the tuner. I don't know if this could be partly to blame for my problems, but the symptoms of at least one other F38310 user seem similar to my issues. It's on HDTV Magazine's web site and I found the thread through a google search (AVS Forum won't let me post anything with a web address, or I'd include the URL.)

The writer seems very knowlegable about the design of the F38310, having worked for RCA. Interestingly, he mentions:

"I have long since discarded my schematic diagrams of the 38"
HDTV chassis group, but there is a horizontal frequency adjustment
someplace. (Such adjustment had long since been relegated to factory
controls or software settings since the advent of digital scan control.)"

Does anybody know how I would adjust the horizontal frequency, as he suggests? Is it some internal switch inside the TV or something?
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post #645 of 1202 Old 08-10-2007, 08:05 AM
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So after some more playing around with the set, I've found that the high voltage does seem to come on, at least some of it. I don't have the equipment necessary to test that high of a voltage but the arm hair static test finds conclusive evidence of a large amount of potential.

My problem sounds similar to post #577, with the cricket-like sounds, although my set does not even power up. Can anyone (Ratman, maybe) please give me a couple of test points on the board so maybe I can test with my meter for proper voltages?

I really need a service manual...
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post #646 of 1202 Old 08-10-2007, 08:55 AM
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You can order the service manual through the Thomson Electronics Service website. You'll have a choice of CD or paper versions. The paper version is about twenty dollars more than the $50 CD version. I have the CD version and it doesn't contain a really clear depiction of the deflection power supply board in the exploded view. It(the CD version) does contain a clear written description of the deflection power supply removal.
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post #647 of 1202 Old 08-10-2007, 05:58 PM
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Mr. Leary: this is actually a response to your PM of this P.M. It's a direct copy and paste from the CD Service Manual. Notice the absence of diagrams in regard to the deflection power supply. The printed manual might improve on that situation. Hope it helps.


Deflection/Power Supply (Main) Board Removal
1. Remove Chassis assembly.
2. Remove back and bottom panels.
DTV306
DISASSEMBLY PROCEDURES
Page 2-2
3. Disconnect ground wires from I/O board and
Deflection/P/S board (near A/C connector).
4. Disconnect J14402.
5. Release wire ties and connectors as needed
(depending on how far board needs to be moved from
frame).
Side Fan Removal
1. Disconnect P41125.
2. Twist one tab on each side of the fan assembly.
3. Pull the top of the fan out first, then the rest of the
assembly to remove.
Top Fan Removal (Fig 1)
1. Disconnect P41126.
2. Remove one screw.
3. Slide fan assembly in the direction shown and
remove.
Fig. 1 - Top Fan Assembly Removal
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post #648 of 1202 Old 08-10-2007, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donyoop View Post

Thanks, RCA don. I'm not sure how much on time is on the set. Except for power failure times, it has been plugged in continuously since Dec. 2001. I have put a lot of hours on this set. No failures until now. It seemed like this CR14710 failure is a soft failure in that it appears to be just a protection diode (albeit a critical high voltage one) and may just breakdown reverse bias after so many years of being exposed to 1700 volts. However, it appears that JoeFloyd had a contributing cause to the diode failure in that he had a repeat failure. I ordered the manual last night from Thomsen. Once I can see the schematic, then I hope to be able to figure out if I need to replace anything more than just the diode. I will then order the parts and have at it. Even if I don't succeed, this will be a fun little project.

Don

Well I have my service manual and I was way off base on what the CR14710 is. The CR14710 is one leg of a full wave bridge rectifier to produce the 1700 volts DC. The 1700 volts DC is then modulated with the dynamic focus blanking signal to produce dynamic focus control. It is more than likely voltage spikes which take out the diode. Since my diode was a "soft" failure, getting real hot but still mostly working, I'm still going to try replacing the diode to see what happens. The transformer and caps in that particular circuit ought to be all right. The root cause may be regulation further back and that could be hard to pinpoint. I've ordered a few diodes and still holding out hope, but not as much hope as before. I'll let you know how it goes.

Don
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post #649 of 1202 Old 08-14-2007, 03:36 PM
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RCA Don,

Thanks for the excerpt from the manual.

Is there any good way to ensure that the picture tube is discharged before I go poking around in this thing? Is there a bleeder resistor that discharges it automatically?
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post #650 of 1202 Old 08-20-2007, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCA don View Post

Mr. Leary: this is actually a response to your PM of this P.M. It's a direct copy and paste from the CD Service Manual. Notice the absence of diagrams in regard to the deflection power supply. The printed manual might improve on that situation. Hope it helps.


Deflection/Power Supply (Main) Board Removal
1. Remove Chassis assembly.
2. Remove back and bottom panels.
DTV306
DISASSEMBLY PROCEDURES
Page 2-2
3. Disconnect ground wires from I/O board and
Deflection/P/S board (near A/C connector).
4. Disconnect J14402.
5. Release wire ties and connectors as needed
(depending on how far board needs to be moved from
frame).
Side Fan Removal
1. Disconnect P41125.
2. Twist one tab on each side of the fan assembly.
3. Pull the top of the fan out first, then the rest of the
assembly to remove.
Top Fan Removal (Fig 1)
1. Disconnect P41126.
2. Remove one screw.
3. Slide fan assembly in the direction shown and
remove.
Fig. 1 - Top Fan Assembly Removal

Overall, I was displeased with the non-descript disassembly procedure. The key is to just move the electronics chassis back far enough to clear the yoke of the CRT and flip it 90 degrees and set it down on the DM-1 module. I only had to disconnect 4 connectors. The bottom panel is then accessible. I did get the CR14710 diode and the accompanying 82 pf cap out... My solder sucking skills suck, but I did an OK job here. I'm also replacing two of the other diodes (2 other legs of the bridge) which are adjacent. When my back-ordered parts get here, I can do that. I will report at the end of the week what happens.

Don
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post #651 of 1202 Old 08-27-2007, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjfoxtrot View Post

This is my first post, which reflects how few problems I've had since getting my F38310 nearly six years ago. But I've had a nagging problem that doesn't seem to have cropped up for any other user, or at least, not that I can find mentioned on this board.

Here it is: I recently got a Tivo/DirecTV HR10-250 high def PVR and hooked it up to the component input of the F38310. The resulting picture for high def channels is superb, and standard definition is OK. BUT . . . inexplicably and without any apparent trigger, the screen goes haywire and about half the viewable area (bottom half) gets overrun by horizontal, thick-banded multicolored lines stretching from left to right across the screen. They occupy the screen for anywhere from a second to 30 seconds, then disappear and all is well again. I see this problem manifest itself three or four times a day. It happens ONLY on the component input, and I checked the HR10-250 on another TV and it works fine.

Can anyone give me any advice? I'd really appreciate it. I love this TV and it has served me well, but I'm worried that this problem may be the deciding point in getting rid of it . . .

mjfoxtrot,

I had an HR10-250 on my 62" for the last 2 years and an HR20 on the F38310 for the last year, both working with no problems. But recently I decided to move the HR20 over to the 62" and the HR10 to the F38310.

Well now I have exactly the same issue you are having, but have found that it appears that the aspect ratio setting (using the Ratio button) makes the problem kick in. When I have it set to FULL the problem occurs immediately (seems to happen more during commercials than in normal programming). After I set the aspect ratio to PANEL the problem appears reduced. It's only been a day, but I'll keep you posted.

Update:

I think I've found a config for the HR10-250 that works all the time. Go the the video settings menu and set "TV Aspect Ratio" to 4:3 instead of 16:9, then set "Wide Screen Format" from "Letterbox" to "Pan & Scan". I have yet to reproduce the problem with those settings.
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post #652 of 1202 Old 08-28-2007, 03:00 PM
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Odd, I've been using an w/ my F38310 for years, always set to 16x9. I toggle the Panel/Full setting as source material dictates. This has always worked perfectly and continues to do so.

See profile for new equipment list
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post #653 of 1202 Old 08-28-2007, 10:06 PM
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Sorry if I'm interrupting, but I made this thread last week and was wondering if I could get some additional advice:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=895385

Well anyway, here's the jist of it:
Quote:


Hey guys, today my 38" RCA went on the fritz. I was watching the exciting display of files being transferred to my Xbox, when the TV looked like it shut off. You know how when you turn off CRT's (usually older ones) the picture converges to a dot or vertical line in the center? Well, it did that along with a clicking noise, which is the same sound it makes when it turns off, but it kept doing it....like every half second. So you see the shutting off converging thing along with a click, then half a second later the same thing, another half second same thing again, etc. The only way I could stop this cycle was by unplugging the unit from the back. After a few minutes, I plugged it back in and it starting doing the same thing right when it got plugged in. I went to the front of the TV and hit the power button. The green light went on, but it kept clicking. I pressed the power button again and the green light went off, but it kept clicking. So I unplugged the unit again and stopped messing around with it.

So, has anyone else ever encountered this before? I would appreciate any type of help I can get. Thanks.

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post #654 of 1202 Old 08-28-2007, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rttrek View Post

Odd, I've been using an w/ my F38310 for years, always set to 16x9. I toggle the Panel/Full setting as source material dictates. This has always worked perfectly and continues to do so.

rttrek,

I agree it sounds non-plausible, but I was experiencing the issue and was working around it by switching from 1080i to 480i whenever it happened.

I think it might have something to do with the scaling within the HR10 and the settings I've described seem to turn all that off.
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post #655 of 1202 Old 09-01-2007, 01:22 PM
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mjfoxtrot,

Well I've been testing some more. Although the settings I've described above lessen the problem they do not eliminate it. The problem seems to occur when there is a large amount of black on the screen, or during transitions between commercials and the program. I tried a better component video cable but got the same results

Based on rttrek's post the he has an HR10 and has no issues I decided to focus on the F38310's settings instead of the HR10's. I use the F38310 as a 2nd television in the main room, so I often use it's built-in speakers for audio. However most of the time I have the audio muted so I can listen to the audio from my main display (a 61" JVC).

I noticed that I only seemed to get the video issue when I had the F38310 audio muted. I checked all the F38310 settings and it dawned on me that when I was still using the internal receiver I had the F38310 set to use "CLOSED CAPTIONING" whenever I muted the audio. My theory is that maybe the set was interpreting the transitions as CC material and that possibly was causing the video issue.

Well since I turned off all the CC options on the F38310 I have not experienced the issue. I've even set all the HR10 options back to what they should be (16:9 and panel or full).

It's only been a few hours. I'll keep you posted.
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post #656 of 1202 Old 09-01-2007, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSte View Post

Sorry if I'm interrupting, but I made this thread last week and was wondering if I could get some additional advice:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=895385

Well anyway, here's the jist of it:

LordSte,

I had a problem like that a couple years ago. I took it in for repair out of warranty. It cost me $180 to get it fixed and I haven't had a problem since (other than the OTA dying, but I use the HR10 for that now)
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post #657 of 1202 Old 09-01-2007, 04:08 PM
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We replaced our F38310 with a 1080P Samsung 56" DLP in our main tv room over one year ago. The RCA has been sitting unused for that time, mainly because I was having a hard time finding a tv stand tall enough and strong enough to be used in our bedroom. Ending up picking up a stand on Friday and my neighbor and I picked this beast up and got it onto the stand this morning. Although I do not currently have a HD signal going into it (will have Verizon replace the SD box with a HD asap) the dvds look just as good as I remembered. Just to make sure I am not overlooking it, is there any type of sleep timer on this tv?
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post #658 of 1202 Old 09-02-2007, 02:14 PM
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Good sleuthing Mostau!

See profile for new equipment list
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post #659 of 1202 Old 09-04-2007, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mostau View Post

LordSte,

I had a problem like that a couple years ago. I took it in for repair out of warranty. It cost me $180 to get it fixed and I haven't had a problem since (other than the OTA dying, but I use the HR10 for that now)

Thanks bro. I might have to get someone to come over and fix it. There's no way I can lift that thing. We already had trouble with 3 people trying to get it DOWN the stairs when we first got it. Maybe I'll rent a crane.
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post #660 of 1202 Old 09-16-2007, 06:24 PM
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Overall, I was displeased with the non-descript disassembly procedure. The key is to just move the electronics chassis back far enough to clear the yoke of the CRT and flip it 90 degrees and set it down on the DM-1 module. I only had to disconnect 4 connectors. The bottom panel is then accessible. I did get the CR14710 diode and the accompanying 82 pf cap out... My solder sucking skills suck, but I did an OK job here. I'm also replacing two of the other diodes (2 other legs of the bridge) which are adjacent. When my back-ordered parts get here, I can do that. I will report at the end of the week what happens.

The 82 pf cap is finally off of national backorder. It will arrive Tuesday. I'll post results Wed. night. After removal, the 82 pf cap which straddles the CR14710 appeared to be leaky when I put a DVM on it. That got my hopes up.

Don
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