How are RCA F38310 owners doing? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 1202 Old 05-15-2004, 12:46 PM
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Horizontal size (P:05)
Horizontal position (P:04)

Vertical size (P:11)
Veritical position (P:10 course)
Vertical position (P:13 fine)

pincushion/parabola (P:07)
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post #62 of 1202 Old 05-16-2004, 10:10 AM
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Thanks very much for your help on this.

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post #63 of 1202 Old 05-18-2004, 03:15 PM
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2 years old and working great! I have had no problems at all.
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post #64 of 1202 Old 05-18-2004, 07:20 PM
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I think ya'll scared the "Captain" off. Let HOB rest, and welcome in Captain Nemo.
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post #65 of 1202 Old 05-19-2004, 11:59 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by tommylotto
14 months of constant use and still going strong. I recently learned something new about this set. The dreaded "pincushion effect" is introduced when the internal scaler converts 480i and 480p sources into 540p for display. I had bought an iScan to create the best possible 480p from my sources, only to have the set's internal scaler introduce geometric errors. So, I'm selling the iScan on ebay and just bought a Momitsu V880 DVD player. This player is one of the rare players that will output 1080i on its component outputs. Thus, the 1080i signal is natively displayed by the F38310 without running the signal through the crappy scaler -- no more pincushion effect! on DVD.

My DirectTivo is still affected, but in a few months the HD DirectTivo will be available and it scales everything to 1080i. Then everything I display on my set will be 1080i, I'll never use the internal scaler and everything will look perfect.

Hey tommylotto...did you end up getting your DirecTV HD Tivo..and if so any problems with hooking it up to the f38310?
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post #66 of 1202 Old 05-20-2004, 08:23 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by everton4
Hey tommylotto...did you end up getting your DirecTV HD Tivo..and if so any problems with hooking it up to the f38310?

I pre-ordered from Value Electronics on 1/21. It was represented that I was one of the first 350 orders and would be in their first allocation. VE accepted my money on false pretenses. I was far outside the first 350, and not even in the first three allotments. Now, other distributors are getting limited quantities and people who ordered elsewhere in April or May are getting theirs before my order is filled. VE lied (at least to me), but if you say that over at the Tivo Community thread, you would be hounded by the fanboys.

The latest disinformation spread by VE is that my order should be filled next week. We will see...

I was interested in the over-scan comment on my perceived correction to the barrel roll effect. I have not notice any over-scan problem, but I have not been looking for it. This weekend I'll do a test with my Avia DVD to see if he is right. Even if he is, the over-scan is not really noticeable and better than the barrel roll effect. But, of course, I want to know what I am sacrificing.

If you really want to be anal, I heard of one guy who sent all his signals into an HTPC and compressed the image. Then he went into the service menu and stretched the picture until the distortion was off the screen. The compression and stretching canceled each other leaving a normal picture without barrel roll.
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post #67 of 1202 Old 05-20-2004, 08:29 AM
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tommylotto, please respond back to this thread and let us know what happens. Very interested in how this turns out. Thanks...Jeff
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post #68 of 1202 Old 05-20-2004, 07:15 PM
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Anyone with the F38310 have Voom? If so how do you like and how are you sorting out multiple connections?
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post #69 of 1202 Old 05-25-2004, 08:30 AM
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Is there a separate set of adjustable parameters for the component (and other) inputs? I have always entered the service menu by pressing TV-DirecTV and Ch. down simultaneously. The overscan adjustments made there only affect the set's internal tuners. I have adjusted down close to zero overscan there, but the various inputs (per Avia) have about 2% at top & bottom, and 3% at each side. This didn't really bother me until I got a Sony SAT-HD300. I miss the inch of material at each side that vanishes into the overscan area when I view HD material on the Sony. Could anyone advise me how to access and change the parameters that affect the component and other inputs? Thanks.

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post #70 of 1202 Old 05-25-2004, 08:49 AM
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All inputs are independant (component, Vid1,2 FRNT, S-video)... even the antnenna inputs.

You must have the TV displaying/set to the input you want to adjust BEFORE you enter 'service mode'.

After adjustments are made, you MUST exit 'service mode' to save those settings for that particular input.

Then you can switch to the next input, enter service mode, adjust and exit.
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post #71 of 1202 Old 05-25-2004, 12:04 PM
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Thanks again for the help, Ratman. After a few misfires I managed to get the component input down to about 1% overscan. For some reason it won't display quite as much as the built-in DTC-100, but it will be fine. When I changed to the video inputs, I was unable to get "P" off zero, but strangely, the changes I made to component seem to have changed Video 1,2,& 3 as well, so their overscan is now around 1% as well. I am now encouraged to order a Zenith DVB318 upconverting DVD player to see if this reduces or eliminates the edge compression as tommylotto describes above. Thanks again.

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post #72 of 1202 Old 05-25-2004, 12:26 PM
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I have not been able to check the overscan on the Momitsu with Avia yet. When you reduced the overscan on the service menu, did you get edge compression on 1080i from your Sony receiver?

P.S. The Zenith looks perfect and the price is nice, but just make sure that it will output 1080i through the component output for Macrovision protected disks. The Momitsu has a secret menu that enable regions and macrovision protection to be disabled.
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post #73 of 1202 Old 05-25-2004, 01:46 PM
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I bought my F39310 on April 21, 2001 and it worked fine until last Sunday, May 23, 2004. For 3 years, 1 month, and 2 days I had my fun. Last Sunday, we watched until 6 PM, turned it off, had dinner, and returned to it at 8 PM. Turned it on, or tried to, but not even the fan started! Luckly for me, I purchased an extended warranty service for 5 years, and the teck is coming over tomorrow to fix it. The outlet is OK, the AC cord is OK, for I measure 117 volts AC on the female side of the power cord. It is the set that just won't allow those electrons to flow through it. Could be an internal fuse!

Mauro
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post #74 of 1202 Old 05-25-2004, 02:22 PM
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Anyone running Voom on their sets?
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post #75 of 1202 Old 05-25-2004, 03:35 PM
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tommylotto, there is a small degree of edge compression now at 1080i from the HD300, but you have to be looking for it. It's about the same as I have had with the built-in DTC-100 since I cut the overscan to near zero. When I first took delivery of my F38310 3 years ago, I think the factory-set overscan on the DTC-100 was around 2%, and I could not detect any edge compression on 1080i material. I left it that way for a long time.

As for the DVB318, evidently units delivered so far have been OK, but I see in the long thread that many are afraid that LG/Zenith will disable 1080i for protected material via component at some point. Think I'll get one at the nice price offered at gochnauers.com, and if it doesn't work out it will be a nice gift for my niece who just got a new Sanyo TV with HDMI.

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post #76 of 1202 Old 05-26-2004, 01:12 PM
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Finally got the HD-TIVO. (bought from Costa Mesa Magnolia/BB Store -- will cancel Value Electronics Pre-Order) I have not been able to compare the PQ of the HD Tivo and the internal tuner with any good quality HD yet, but there is definetly more overscan on the 1080i Component input. The HDNet logo is right along the bottom edge of the screen. I guess, I'm going to have to get into that service menu. Are the settings listed by Ratman a good compromise between overscan and edge compresssion or will I need to experiment?
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post #77 of 1202 Old 05-26-2004, 03:27 PM
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Be cautious and experiment... all TV's are different.

Just be sure write down the P:x and V:x values BEFORE you make any change.

It's been three years with my set and I still occasionally 'nudge' a value.
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post #78 of 1202 Old 05-26-2004, 08:59 PM
 
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Do any of the 38310 owners think any other companies will ever try to produce a 38-inch 16:9 CRT? How much difference does the 4 additional inches make for your viewing pleasure?
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post #79 of 1202 Old 05-27-2004, 03:14 AM
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I wanted to have my viewing distance at the optimal (for widescreen 1080i) 3.2X picture height (or 1.57X diagonal). This puts me about 5' from my 38" display, which worked out ideally for my room dimensions and speaker placements. With a 34" display, my viewing distance would be a less than ideal 53.3". FWIW, at 1.57 X widescreen diagonal you experience a viewing angle width of 31 degrees which gives a nice sense of involvement.

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post #80 of 1202 Old 05-27-2004, 06:07 AM
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MF70,
Did the tech fix your set?
Did you ever have the capacitors replaced?
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post #81 of 1202 Old 05-27-2004, 10:33 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by locomo
MF70,
Did the tech fix your set?
Did you ever have the capacitors replaced?

The tech came over yesterday, 26 May, and replaced a module on the right side of the box. Tha did NOT fix the problem, and he said that the next step was to take the set into the shop for the replacement of various parts. That work could not be completed at my house because it takes longer than the limit of 20 minutes his company allows. I asked when I can expect the set back, and he said that would be about one week. I was not aware of any capacitor problems, but would appeciate hearing about it right now. Ny 5-year extended warranty runs until May 21, 2006, and I hope to have all the fixes in before then. Thanks, locomo, for bringing this to my attention.

Mauro
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post #82 of 1202 Old 05-27-2004, 02:23 PM
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As mentioned above, the minimum overscan I was able to achieve on the component input (per Avia) was 1% at all 4 edges. Here are the changes I made to get there: (P=parameter) P-04 (horiz. position) 38 - no change - was exactly centered). P-05 (width) - changed from 39 to 22 to get minimum width. P-10 (vert. position - coarse) changed from 4 to 3 for exact centering. P-11 (vert. size) changed from 37 to 34 for minimum height.
P-13 (vert. position - fine) unchanged at 38. BTW, with my overscan now at 1% on component input, Avia shows considerable edge compression on the circle hatch pattern and a 480i DVD player. My Zenith DVB318 is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. Will recheck Avia with the 1080i upconvert and report back on this thread if there's any improvement in edge compression.

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post #83 of 1202 Old 05-27-2004, 09:30 PM
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MF70,
I had my caps changed out before they "went bad all the way".
It's possible that once they go, they can take out other things like some diodes.
Ratman and others here, know a whole lot more about this stuff than myself.
UncD2000,
I think that more than just a few of us are real interested on your findings on the Zenith 318.
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post #84 of 1202 Old 05-28-2004, 04:52 AM
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locomo, the DVB318 hasn't arrived yet, but I don't believe at this point that it will affect the edge compression issue. I was looking back on a letter I wrote to Thomson Multimedia Inc. 3 years ago, and my conclusion then was that the two stretch modes ("full" and "fill") are the source of the edge compression. Since selecting the component input automatically engages the "full" mode, that input will always be affected by edge compression. Thus, by reducing the overscan on that input to the minimum, I probably made the situation worse, but that's a tradeoff I can live with as my first priority is to view as much of the image as possible. When the DTC-100 tuner receives a 1080i signal, it locks into "16:9 mode" and displays this fact. There is virtually no edge compression in "16:9 mode." Nor is there any in the "normal" viewing mode for 480i material. It's only when the "full" or "fill" stretch modes are engaged that this non-linear expansion occurs. I will return shortly and edit my posts above to remove some erroneous and misleading conclusions.

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post #85 of 1202 Old 05-28-2004, 06:14 AM
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UncD2000

You might be interested in reading the thread at hdtvoice.com


> RCA - ProScan HDTV Sets > A real HD television


Starting at thread #17, Ratman and I discussed this same issue on the overscan.

My unit is a JX5 manufactured in 02/2002 and purchased from CC in 12/2002. I figure that this was an open box that was repaired by CC as the caps have been replaced. So far to date the unit has been working like a champ with 13,000 plus hours.
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post #86 of 1202 Old 05-28-2004, 08:24 AM
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Thanks for the reference to the interesting discussion. I'll report back on what the DVB318 does, but I won't be surprised if the edge compression persists. I still believe RCA could have solved the problem years ago with a replacement for the circuit board that controls the "full" and "fill" stretch mode function (or perhaps even with a firmware "fix" via satellite download for D* subscribers), but they had just done a costly recall on the F38310 in late 2000 to fix another problem, so they "cheaped out" on the edge compression issue, and finally discontinued the F38310 rather than commit more money to correcting its faults.

Their "solution" of moving the compression offscreen is unacceptable. I realize that 5% overscan at the 4 edges is not unusual on TV displays, but that is a loss of 19% of the image (0.9 horiz X 0.9 vert = 0.81). There is much anguish in this forum about HBO-HD panning/scanning 2.35 movies to fill the 16:9 screen (which discards 24% of the image), but relatively little mentioned about image loss to overscan. I'm going to continue with my overscan at the minimum on all sources. A little edge compression here and there is by far the lesser of the evils.

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post #87 of 1202 Old 05-28-2004, 09:35 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by locomo
[b]MF70,
I had my caps changed out before they "went bad all the way".
It's possible that once they go, they can take out other things like some diodes.

Thanks for the info, locomo! My set was taken to the shop last Wednesday, May 26; yesterday, I got a call from the shop and was told that the set will be delivered back to me next Wednesday, June 3. I could call them and ask about replacement of the caps, but would like to now exactly what caps these are. Can anybody tell me that? I don't know whether the office guy at the shop would know what I am talking about. Thanks!

Mauro
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post #88 of 1202 Old 05-28-2004, 11:24 AM
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I believe the caps are C14113/14115 ... and if the diodes are bad CR14107/14117

The chassis # for the F38310 is DTV306

Ask them to check Thomson's service bulletins for the proper capacitor values. Do not replace with the 'same' type of caps or the problem will reoccur!
(I dont' remember off hand.. I'll snoop around and see if I can find the recommended upgrade values).
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post #89 of 1202 Old 05-28-2004, 03:24 PM
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Sorry to report that the DVB318 does not eliminate edge compression with the 1080i upconvert into the component input. Nice player for $160 though. I may get another for a gift. I'm back to my original theory that the "full" & "fill" stretch modes cause the edge compression. The "16:9" and "Normal" modes do not. Since the component input locks into "full" mode, increasing the overscan on that input is about the only "solution."

UncD2000
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post #90 of 1202 Old 05-28-2004, 09:19 PM
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I just got my set back last Monday after it had been down since April 23. It has been plagued by power supply problems the 2-1/2 years I have owned it and on two separate occasions wires had to be resoldered to the yoke connection. I even had the DM-1 module replaced which turned out to not be necessary. I am having my set calibrated by a local ISF technician this coming Friday, June 4. Since getting the set back I have noticed that the focus is out of whack ever so slightly. Plus I want to get the gray scale set properly and see what this baby is capable of producing picturewise. I'm also curious to see what kind of geometric changes he will make, if any. I don't plan on upgrading to DLP for at least another 18 months so I think it's worth it. I will post the results of the calibration.
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