Sony 34XBR910 Service Menu Adjustments - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 209 Old 02-27-2004, 05:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
Alan Sh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
A few days ago I updated my adjustments at the start of this thread to include how I implemented the extremely helpful black adjustment tip by NTN1. Prior to this every time I switched between HDTV and DVD I had to change brightness by 10 clicks. Very annoying.

Thanks.
Alan Sh is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 209 Old 02-28-2004, 12:39 PM
ADU
AVS Special Member
 
ADU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,484
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 177
Sorry but I changed my mind again re the suggestion on tandem DRV/CUT adjustments. Decided to pull it until I can explain/understand what's going on a bit better. I'm just afraid this approach won't work (and will only add to the confusion) unless some of the other color settings on the TV are neutralized first. And I'm not sure this is the correct way to approach grey scales. When I get a chance maybe I'll revisit this in more detail in the Sony Signal Processing thread since it's more on the experimental side.

ADU
ADU is offline  
post #93 of 209 Old 03-01-2004, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
NTN1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Suburban Boston, MA
Posts: 155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The 910's geometry is never perfect, but it can pretty good if you know how to use the service menu. Attached is the HDNet pattern on my 910. It's straight on top, bottom and right sides. The left side is slightly skewed. Linearity still has flaws. Overscan is almost 0% on top, less than 2% on the right side, and 2% on the left and bottom.

Everytime I go into the service menu, the picture shifts up 4 clicks. So, after you center the picture in service menu, move it up several clicks (Mine is 4. Yours may be different.) then save. When you get out of service mode, the picture will shift down to the perfect center position.

Overscan must be adjusted for different inputs/formats. If you think your overscan is adjusted pretty good, hit Twin View on the remote, and alternately select each view (in my case, a 16x9 and a 4x3 images), you should be able to see the green border all around both twin-view images. If not, you haven't done overscan adjustments for the various TV modes. One day, I'll update my cal doc to describe this subject in more details.
LL
NTN1 is offline  
post #94 of 209 Old 03-01-2004, 04:56 PM
Newbie
 
bobbobthorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
hi, i screwed up my tv by hitting 7, 9, then enter. now its all outta wack and i've tried to get it back into shape, i got kinda close, but theres always soemthing a lil off. can a kv34xbr910 owner post all of the factory defaults for a standard 480i? or can someone point me in the right direction? fixyourowntv.com doen't have defualt values, and hte one n1n posted was nice but it was for 1080i. someone help me out.
bobbobthorne is offline  
post #95 of 209 Old 03-01-2004, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
NTN1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Suburban Boston, MA
Posts: 155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
bobbobthorne,

My data actually contains 480i for certain mode.

Every TV is different. Not sure what the effect of corrupted NVM data is on the TV. Let me know exactly which mode you were in when you hit 7,9,enter such as display mode (normal, zoom, wide zoom), color temp, Edge VM on/off, etc.

I'll help you the best I can but I'll need as much info about your setting as you can remember. PM me. We'll take this off line.
NTN1 is offline  
post #96 of 209 Old 03-01-2004, 07:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by bobbobthorne
hi, i screwed up my tv by hitting 7, 9, then enter. now its all outta wack and i've tried to get it back into shape, i got kinda close, but theres always soemthing a lil off. can a kv34xbr910 owner post all of the factory defaults for a standard 480i? or can someone point me in the right direction? fixyourowntv.com doen't have defualt values, and hte one n1n posted was nice but it was for 1080i. someone help me out.

 

34xbr910 service menu v3.zip 56.5849609375k . file
sengsational is offline  
post #97 of 209 Old 03-02-2004, 01:52 PM
Advanced Member
 
DanielSmi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 758
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey guys this is a great thread I've only read one page but I'm gonna give you two links that are both in my favorites, to look at. The first is about the correct way to fix red push which is a color decoder problem not a grayscale problem and the other has some info about adjusting stuff in the SM and has part of a Service manual that you can print out.

Must Read re: Red Push and Grayscale (cut & drive) Enthusiastic Amateur Calibrators Page

AWH: SONY Service Mode (NTSC)

The second one is based off of older Sony TVs so may not be as relavant today as it was 4-5 years ago.

Daniel Smith

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake; you are the same decaying organic matter as everything else ... We are the all singing all dancing crap of the world.

- Tyler Durden
DanielSmi is offline  
post #98 of 209 Old 03-04-2004, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
NTN1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Suburban Boston, MA
Posts: 155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
bobbobthorne,

Attached is my 910's original factory SM values for 1080i/480p component, memory stick, and 480i component/composite/RF. "--" means value is same as 1080i default. Also, do not overlook the hidden notes containing SM values for other settings. Just move the cursor over the data cells that have a red mark in the upper-right corner.

All 910s are unique. My data should bring your TV back in business. Additional calibration should give you a picture quality better than new.

 

34xbr910 service menu factory defaults.zip 56.787109375k . file
NTN1 is offline  
post #99 of 209 Old 03-04-2004, 05:18 PM
Newbie
 
bobbobthorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
thanks alot, everything is very close to perfect now. the only problem i have now is that 480p is very dark, and i'm using your default settings. in video 5, component 480p, pro, warm, full mode it is dark. when i flip the switch in the back of the dvd player to interlaced and it goes into 480i, all of the color settings are fine. which service menu adjustment should i mess with to get that right?
bobbobthorne is offline  
post #100 of 209 Old 03-06-2004, 03:38 PM
Member
 
SeeingWhite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Far from home
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
First: I just wanted to pass a word of thanks to you guys on this thread who have put so much time into sharing your experiences with calibrating the 910. You guys are really great for putting your data into spread sheets for the rest of us.

Second: I just helped my wife's grandmother purchase this TV (for $1775!) including the free matching stand. I'm looking forward to setting up the TV in their family room for them. In a month or so -- after break-in -- I will try to share my calibration results. (I wish I could have a 910 -- I've got all this technical know-how yet without all the money!! :D )

Thanks again.
SeeingWhite is offline  
post #101 of 209 Old 03-11-2004, 11:57 AM
Senior Member
 
smodak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Franklin MA US
Posts: 465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I am really afraid to do all these service menu settings with my 34XBR910. I tried adjusting the set with Avia and I have the following questions...

I have DVE too (if that helps)

I am talking about the user menu settings unless otherwise specified.

1. My set never shows any blooming even with contrast level at 100%. So I am unable to set the contrast correctly. Any pointers?
2. Same goes for Sharpness.
3. Is it OK to watch the TV in its factory default settings (out of the box) in Standard/Movie or Pro mode (Vivid is too bright) or is it going to shorten the lifespan of the TV/cause Burn-in?
4.What is the safe level of contrast for each of the modes (about 50%)?
5. The HD picture looks OK but the SD looks horrible (with Dish 811 component and DVI) in all the modes. Any pointers to improve them? If I do the service mode calibrations (except Grey scale) mentioned in the docs above, is it going to help how the SD picture look?
6.Overall in all the modes the picture lacks shadow detail. If I turn up the brightness, the picture looks washed out.
7.Does tweaking the service menu void warranty (popular notion)?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
smodak is offline  
post #102 of 209 Old 03-11-2004, 02:04 PM
Senior Member
 
smodak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Franklin MA US
Posts: 465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Sorry to bump my own post but anybody has any answers?
smodak is offline  
post #103 of 209 Old 03-11-2004, 03:42 PM
ADU
AVS Special Member
 
ADU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,484
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 177
I've never used AVIA or DVE, but have you checked out some of the remarks and other calibration links here:XBR910 FAQ for ideas on some of this?

ADU
ADU is offline  
post #104 of 209 Old 03-11-2004, 04:39 PM
Senior Member
 
smodak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Franklin MA US
Posts: 465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thank Adu,
I did check the FAQ posts before posting this thread. It is really nice and I learned a lot but I am confused after reading the posts. Nobody seems to answer the questions I asked.
smodak is offline  
post #105 of 209 Old 03-11-2004, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
NTN1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Suburban Boston, MA
Posts: 155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
smodak,

1/ Blooming: There is blooming even in pro mode. If you can not recognize it, don't worry about it.

2/ Sharpness: Even with Edge VM off, there is some picture ringing effect due to edge enhancement. To learn more about edge enhancement, go here. Follow the sharpness instructions in DVE, and turn it down if the ringing effect bothers you.

3/ Out-of-the-box: OK to watch the TV in its default settings. Avoid Vivid mode. I don't know what it takes to burn-in the 910 tube, but it should be unlikely for normal viewing. If you have to watch it in 4:3 mode all the time, then it might get burn-in after a couple of days of non-stop viewing. Just my guess.

4/ Contrast: Pro mode is safest with contrast at 50%. Standard is 75%, and is more strenuous for the tube. If you have to turn down the contrast to 50%, then you might as well use Pro mode.

5/ SD quality: many people mess with DRC. I never touched it, but I think it's in the "Advanced Video" sub menu. Calibration will improve picture quality, but not the kind of quality I think you are complaining about.

6/ Brightness: use a PLUGE pattern to set your brightness. Just follow DVE instructions. The picture will not wash out if you do it right.

7/ SM and warranty: I doubt SM tweaking would void warranty. However, before having a Sony tech look at your TV, just switch the SM parameters, that you changed, back to the original values. No big deal at all.
NTN1 is offline  
post #106 of 209 Old 03-12-2004, 07:05 AM
Senior Member
 
smodak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Franklin MA US
Posts: 465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks NTN1!
Just the info I was looking for!
smodak is offline  
post #107 of 209 Old 03-12-2004, 01:10 PM
Member
 
PatrickT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 196
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Speaking of DRC. Has anyone published a good explaination of what the two interacting "clarity and reality" functions are actually doing? I've adjusted mine to give by sight three levels of sharpness so that I might select one to match (or mask) the noiseiness of the program material. So I've used them as a sort sharpness control.

Is there a better way or method?
PatrickT is offline  
post #108 of 209 Old 03-12-2004, 01:49 PM
Senior Member
 
smodak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Franklin MA US
Posts: 465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 11
My Dish 811 is set to output 1080i material (for SD its upconverted by 811). So XBR910 disables DRC (even on SD). I have tried feeding SD material(480i) to it using the S-Video output on 811 and adjusting DRC, never saw any visible difference though between diferrent DRC modes or custom palettes. Overall it looks the best over component output when I feed the 1080i upconverted material from 811 (and the TV disables DRC and does not do any upconversion). The same signal when I feed from 811 to the TV over DVI, it looks dark. Don't know whether that is a problem with my 811 or XBR910.
My DVD player is progressive scan (480p)and the TV disables DRC functionality for 480p too and it looks fabulous.
Except for Discovery HD, somehow I feel the DVD looks better than HD signals (HBO HD or Showtime HD).
smodak is offline  
post #109 of 209 Old 03-13-2004, 10:06 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
archiguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 18,356
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked: 711
Quote:
Originally posted by PatrickT
Speaking of DRC. Has anyone published a good explaination of what the two interacting "clarity and reality" functions are actually doing? ....
Excellent question, Patrick! I've pushed that little white ball all over that little graph and can see no difference whatsoever, whether it's SD content from cable, satellite, or taped via S-VHS. To me it seems completely useless.
archiguy is offline  
post #110 of 209 Old 03-15-2004, 06:20 PM
Newbie
 
bobbobthorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Providence, RI
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i just bought DVE, and with the disc and ntn1's help i got my tv fairly close to factory specs. but now with dve. i notice that the upper left hand corner of the screen is "pulled out" farther so the geometry is off. the right hand side of the screen and the lower left is perfect. which setting adjust that upper left hand corner? i looked at ntn1's list and it doesn't seem to list an adjustment for that specific corner?? thanks in advance.
bobbobthorne is offline  
post #111 of 209 Old 03-15-2004, 07:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by bobbobthorne
but now with dve. i notice that the upper left hand corner of the screen is "pulled out" farther so the geometry is off.
My 910 has always had both top corners splayed out. I can see it just looking at it from across the room when I've got a 4:3 show on. I found some controls in the service menu that addressed that part of the screen, but it didn't concentrate the effect close enough to the top. The left line is straight as an arrow up the side until about 1 inch from the top. At that point, the line goes left about 1/8 or 3/16 inch. The right is similar, but it might be scant of 1/8 inch.

So if you figure this out, make sure you let us know!

--Dale--

(what's DVE?)
sengsational is offline  
post #112 of 209 Old 03-17-2004, 01:01 PM
ADU
AVS Special Member
 
ADU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,484
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 177
ADU is offline  
post #113 of 209 Old 03-20-2004, 09:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
andyross63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 2,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally posted by archiguy
Excellent question, Patrick! I've pushed that little white ball all over that little graph and can see no difference whatsoever, whether it's SD content from cable, satellite, or taped via S-VHS. To me it seems completely useless.
Moving it right (Clarity) tends to soften the picture. Moving it vertical (Reality) sharpens it. It's most noticeable on a grainy picture like a weak signal. For regular Cable RF TV, I'm using 80 clarity, 20 reality, although I'm still experimenting.

Basically, it seems as if Reality is just plain old sharpness. Clarity is some form of smoother or noise reducer.

Need help with your Motorola DVR? Check the Wikibook: How to use a Motorola DVR
andyross63 is offline  
post #114 of 209 Old 03-28-2004, 12:30 PM
Senior Member
 
smodak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Franklin MA US
Posts: 465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 11
NTN1,
Thanks to you. Finally I gathered courage to get into service menu. I fixed the color decoder/brightness and a little geometry (mainly overscan). Man what a diferrence!

I have a problem though. Now that I have fixed the overscan and can see the entire picture. I notice a small horizontal bow on all four corners of the TV.

Its kind of like the one attached in the jpeg, only it is smaller. It is barely noticable in HD and more pronounced in a letterboxed DVD movie and DVE patterns.

Once you know it is there it is really bothering. What setting I need to change to fix it?

There is something for Vertical Bow (so far as I remember) but how to fix the horizontal bow?

Could it be due to my speakers?

Thanks for all the help!
LL
smodak is offline  
post #115 of 209 Old 03-29-2004, 07:29 AM
Senior Member
 
smodak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Franklin MA US
Posts: 465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Bump! Anyone? Any Answers?
Thanks
smodak is offline  
post #116 of 209 Old 03-29-2004, 09:50 AM
ADU
AVS Special Member
 
ADU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,484
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 177
Did you scale the raster all the way down to 0% overscan? If so, that may be the reason you're seeing more distortion. If 0% is really what you want, there could be some other sizing controls that will give you less distortion, like ASPT for vertical sizing for example. What sizing controls did you use? And what type of video inputs do you have? Are you using a Home Theater PC?

ADU
ADU is offline  
post #117 of 209 Old 03-29-2004, 10:00 AM
Senior Member
 
smodak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Franklin MA US
Posts: 465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I am not using HTPC.

I mainly adjusted MDVS, MDVP in the MID1 register and VSIZ, VPOS in the 2170 register. I actually tried to fix the overscan as much as possible.

That is one of my questions. How much overscan should I fix? In DVE 12/20 pattern I tried to bring the overscan down to a level where all the 4 corner circles would be visible? Is that not right?

I am using component connection with a Progressive scan DVD player.

Also, what is the difference between MDVS/MDVP vs VSIZ/VPOS (and the one you mentioned ASPT).

I am totally confused now with so many parameters correcting the same thing. What should I use?
smodak is offline  
post #118 of 209 Old 03-29-2004, 11:32 AM
ADU
AVS Special Member
 
ADU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,484
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 177
There are sizing and positioning controls for all the different signal types and different aspect ratio modes. That's why there are so many, and yes they are complicated.

VSIZ (and HSIZ) seem to work sort of like master controls for the whole raster, so they may be the easiest to use, but may also tend to distort the picture more than other controls, since they're sort of the ground zero for many other geometry adjustments. HSIZ is signal sensitive, ie, can be set differently for 1080i than other signals.

ASPT creates less distortion than VSIZ, so ASPT is my personal preference between those two commands. But unlike VSIZ, ASPT is signal and aspect ratio sensitive, meaning ASPT can probably be set differently for each type of signal (480i, 480p, 1080i) and AR mode (Full, Zoom, Normal, Wide Zoom). so getting it adjusted the same for every signal and AR mode may take alot more work. And it may not fit with the paradigm for adjustments layed out in the XBR910 spreadsheets here, and hence may not be the way you'd want to go.

I believe that MID1/MDVS & MDVP could also be somewhat signal and AR sensitive too. These should also create less distortion than VSIZ & HSIZ. Not really sure how the MID1 commands should be used though. Maybe someone else can comment on that.

Welcome to the wonderful world of service menus!! :) :rolleyes:

FWIW, I think most people use between 2 - 5 % overscan. Not sure how that translates to DVE. Commands like VSIZ & HSIZ may be more or less ok for adjustments in that range.

ADU
ADU is offline  
post #119 of 209 Old 03-29-2004, 11:40 AM
Senior Member
 
smodak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Franklin MA US
Posts: 465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks for the answer ADU. That was very helpful!
BTW, what pattern do you use for overscan adjustments? I have access to both AVIA & DVE.

Tonite, I am gonna try resetting everything to the original values and then try to fix geometry/overscan again.
What should I use as pattern and how do I know it is 3% or 5%?
smodak is offline  
post #120 of 209 Old 03-29-2004, 11:48 AM
ADU
AVS Special Member
 
ADU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,484
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 177
Ack. Since I'm usin an HTPC, I don't use either AVIA or DVE so I'm not sure. Someone else'll have to tell ya.

BTW, whenever you make changes to any of these sizing controls, be sure to note the signal type & aspect ratio mode so you'll have a better idea how to undo them, otherwise things can get very messy.

ADU
ADU is offline  
Closed Thread Direct View (single tube) CRT Displays



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off