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post #1 of 177 Old 02-14-2004, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Spent the better part of the afternoon fiddling around in the service menu on this HDTV. I've had it for about 2 weeks and I'm contemplating returning it to BB if I can't figure out HOW to get the overscan set properly among some other issues. I calibrated the overscan on the AV4 input (where my Progressive scan DVD is hooked up) via the test pattern on the new DVE and the overscan seems more appropriate through this input from my DVR (SD MODE) on this input than it does on the other HD input.

But on AV1 where I have my D* E86 STB hooked up (all of my HDTV'S have E86's) I am able to get the "HDNET" bug to now fit on the screen whereas before I had "HDNE" in the bottom right. I was also able to get the set to where I was content with the scoreboard in the upper LH corner for the hockey game replay on HDNET as well. Previously (on both HD inputs---I tried both) the scoreboard was cut off....as was a few other graphics on HDNET/DISC HD...but never ESPNHD that I could tell). But there are a few other troubling issues/concerns I have.

For some reason, in 1080i mode, the screen seems to "move" (or throb) when there is a change in the contrast/brightness of a scene....or a camer angle change. It's most noticeable when I stare at a logo in the bottom RH corner of the screen...most noticeably on HDNET/DISCOVERY HD....because it seems on those channels the logos on RIGHT ON THE EDGE. Don't see this noticeable with ESPN-HD or any of my local HD channels. Or maybe it's just that I "notice" it now. For example, while watching HDNET just now the "Heart" concert had a lot of flashing lights......and quite often "HDNET" would become "HDNE"....and then go back to "HDNET". I've turned down the brightness on the set...to I think around 40. It was even more noticeable on camera angle/shot changes on Discovery HD. I'm not sure if "move" is a good way to describe it.....but to my eyes it seemed that the images weren't stationary. I have NEVER NOTICED THIS on my other 2 HDTV's (50" RPTV Toshiba and 17" LCD Philips). I'm wondering if this is something other Direct View HDTV owners experience???

When I compare the overscan to the picture on the 17" LCD Philips, it seems that the 17" LCD "reveals" or shows a good percentage more additional "picture" than the 30" Philips can. But, when I went into the service menu on the 30", I COULD NOT get the EW width setting to mirror what I was seeing on the 17" LCD. The accessible picture would just "end" on the sides, where the 17" was still showing what the actual scene was "beyond" the field of vision of the 30" view. To my eyes, it almost looked like the 30" was "zooming in" whereas the 17" and my 50" had a "real" 16:9 picture. Damn strange. What could cause this? I know the 30pw850H "locks" when it receives a 1080I signal. The non-HD channels seem fine as far as the overscan goes. No issues there. I *think* I understand overscanning a little and can comprehend *some* of the geometry settings and what part of a picture a set can "hide"........but this 30" didn't even seem to HAVE the ability to "see" what my 17" LCD could......or the 50" for that matter. It was just black lines on the sides whereas my other 2 sets had additional "imagery" on either side. Not sure if that makes sense, but it's the only way I can describe it.

Also---there seems to be NO WAY to adjust the sharpness on either CVI/HD input....but it "exists" on the various picture settings that are "stanrdard" on the TV. Would this be somewhere in the service menu? I reviewed and printed out all the service menu listings that I could from this forum.......and a few from some other forums.......but I didn't see a way to adjust sharpness from within the SM. Same thing goes for SVM.

The picture itself on this set seems "washed out" when compared to my other 2 HD sets "out of the box". The other 2 sets I tweaked by sight and trial and error. This one seems a bit more trickier than I expected. Today WABC_DT was broadcasting their demo video on one of the digital subchannels. I was amazed at how much more I could "see" on the 17" and the 50"......that I FOR THE LIFE OF ME COULD NOT reveal/see on the 30"!

I was in the SAM (Service Menu) while I was tweaking the signal on AV1/4 so I was able to keep the test patterns up on the digital subchannel....but I COULD NOT find any way to "get" the actual images on the 30" to even semi-look like the 17" or the 50"as far as what "fit" on the screen.

What am I missing? Has anyone else with this TV had issues with HDNET or Discovery HD with regards to the bugs on the bottom right?

Also---does it take anyone else's TV a good 10-12 seconds to display a picture/sound after you turn on the set? My wife and I laugh about it....it's like turning on an old fluroscent light fixture.........

I also turned on the Virtual Dolby Digital while I was in there. Pretty cool. I'm rambling at this point. I think I'm punch drunk. Anyone care to point this dope in the right direction?

Help.....
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post #2 of 177 Old 02-14-2004, 06:53 PM
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Although I cant help you with the overscan problem, I do know the the "moving" of the screen when different colors/brightness' are on the screen is caused by a weak power supply. I was seriously looking at this set a couple of months ago, but changed my mind once I heard about that. The sharpness issue also turned me away, I mean how hard is it to have that option? I have since purchased the toshiba 30hf83 and i'm happy with it, I can change sharpness plus every other aspect of picture values per input and SAVE them to each assigned input (A BIG PLUS). The tosh also has a DVI input which will come in time to be useful as an additional HD-input. If I were you I would do some diggin and see if anyone in your area has the 30hf83 and go do business
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post #3 of 177 Old 02-14-2004, 07:21 PM
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I don't think you can compare your 30"CRT with the LCD fixed pixel or the 50"RP.The other displays will always give you "more" picture-at least the LCD.CRT's always have more overscan.As far as adjusting sharpness etc. it does not seem to be adjustable on any Philips CRT sets,they are greyed out on composite HD inputs.As to misframed logos,i can move the screen around half an inch or so in all directions by the cursor buttons when in HD composide mode but that may be only on the 34PW9819.I have not noticed any throbbing(that would mostly relate to weak PS as noted before) with my set but no CRT could ever be as rock solid as a LCD in this regard.Can you post how you got in the servicemenu?

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post #4 of 177 Old 02-14-2004, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by alaindelon
I don't think you can compare your 30"CRT with the LCD fixed pixel or the 50"RP.The other displays will always give you "more" picture-at least the LCD.CRT's always have more overscan.As far as adjusting sharpness etc. it does not seem to be adjustable on any Philips CRT sets,they are greyed out on composite HD inputs.As to misframed logos,i can move the screen around half an inch or so in all directions by the cursor buttons when in HD composide mode but that may be only on the 34PW9819.I have not noticed any throbbing(that would mostly relate to weak PS as noted before) with my set but no CRT could ever be as rock solid as a LCD in this regard.Can you post how you got in the servicemenu?

I'm not sure WHAT I was expecting with regards to the overscan issue......but what I WASN'T expecting was to enter the Service Menu, do my EW Width adjustments and just see NOTHING but a black line RIGHT next to "HDNET" on the side of the screen.......while when looking at my LCD I clearly have another 1/2 inch or so of content plainly visible to either side of where this 30" CRT "cuts off". That's what's got me scratching my head.

I didn't expect to hear that there was a power supply issue with this line. Oddly, I only REALLY notice it when in the 1080I mode (AV/1)....not in SD modes (AV2) or when I Have my E86 running through my DVR and into AV4 via component cables.

AFA getting into the service menu, I was hesitant at first. But I just got SO PI$$ED as I started comparing the "view" on this TV to my other 2 (which I honestly never AVIA'D or DVE'D) that I dove in.

Try these links for info:

http://www.freelists.org/archives/te.../msg00575.html
http://www.***************.com/htsth...5&o=31&fpart=1
http://home.tiscali.nl/m.majoor/tv__...rvice_mode.htm

I also came across this posting in the PHilips YahooGroups forum:

Using the remote press 062596 and then "exit". This will get to
the "SAM" section of the service menu. A list of items will appear on
the left. Scroll down to the geometry selection. The submenu from
here will allow you to adjust any portion of the geometry.

Each input has it's own set of values. Therefore, ensure that you are
on the proper input when making adjustments. After making the
necessary mods, press "3" to save the values. Now without exiting the
service menu you can use the AV selection from the remote to move to
another input. Repeat the process as above and remember to press "3"
after each set of adjustments.

When all done simply power off and power on, and viola.....


For me, I did the above to access the menu....but what I did was utilize the "AV" button on the remote to toggle to different inputs, mainly to get to AV1 and AV4 after I got to the geometry submenu. On the AV1/AV4 there were DIFFERENT VALUES assigned to each entry than were assigned to the non-HD/progressive scan inputs. In other words, when I entered the MAIN submenu for EW Width it stated 13 I believe. Then I hit the A/V button on the remote to go to CVI/AV1 and AV/4 and the value for EW Width wasn't 13 it was 18 or some number like that. There was also a "1080I" text next to the value.

I only messed around with AV1/AV4 and AV2. When I was done with a particular input I entered" 3" to save the value....and the screen would "blank out" and go to the main submenu (i.e. EW Width where I started). I would then hit "3" to save from there and then I turned off the power with the remote.

Make sure you right down the values that are on the screen for each associated setting. I printed out EVERYTHING I could and sat down with that in front of me.

Make sure no one is around to bother you. Trust me.......
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post #5 of 177 Old 02-14-2004, 08:23 PM
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To save the settings after changing something in the service menu on the 30pw850H press Status/Exit, than press Menu , now shut off the TV and turn it back on . jaypb are you sure you are saving the settings after adjusting stuff ? There are lots of tweaks and such in SAM (service alignment mode) than there is also the SDM (service default mode) not sure what this is but you can enter it by pressing 062596 Menu . As far as the long startup on the TV mine does it too, it is kind of funny, wonder what takes it so long, but oh well I can live with it .
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post #6 of 177 Old 02-14-2004, 08:53 PM
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I notice slight picture movement with my set. it is not too annoying. from my experience, each input has it's own storage for the values in the SAM.


Now that I know what some of the options are I can disable the ones I do not use like 14;9 zoom and subtitle zoom (quite useless in my humble opinion) I use either auto or widescreen.

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post #7 of 177 Old 02-15-2004, 12:36 AM
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each input has its own values ? so like CVI and AV4 (both HD connections) have their own settings ? Isn't it if you mess with lets say CVI with a 480p input it will affect AV4 with a 480p input right ?
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post #8 of 177 Old 02-15-2004, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by eroteme
each input has its own values ? so like CVI and AV4 (both HD connections) have their own settings ? Isn't it if you mess with lets say CVI with a 480p input it will affect AV4 with a 480p input right ?

From what I remember (I just woke up and I'm not near the TV) yesterday when I was in the SAM (the TV says this in green IIRC in the upper RH corner when you enter the menu).........When I went to input CVI...in my case the TV recognized the 1080I signal from my D* STB......and said so on the screen "EW width.....22 1080I". Then, when I toggled to input AV4 with the AV button on the remote, I believe it stated "EW width.....16 480P". So I'm not sure if you fool with 480P on AV4 if it's the same setting for 480P no CVI. I'll have to go back and check. Right now the only inputs I had anything hooked up to was CVI, AV4 and AV2...and, for me with the E86, it's an annoyance to hit "Action/Input" to toggle between HD and SD signals.
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post #9 of 177 Old 02-15-2004, 05:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai
I notice slight picture movement with my set. it is not too annoying. from my experience, each input has it's own storage for the values in the SAM.


Now that I know what some of the options are I can disable the ones I do not use like 14;9 zoom and subtitle zoom (quite useless in my humble opinion) I use either auto or widescreen.

Edit: The way I would describe the "image moving" scenario I talked about is kind of like an "ebb and flow" effect. When the screen would get bright (in a scene or scene change) I would notice the screen bug in a corner or a scoreboard "expand"....but when the scene/screen would get darker the bug/scoreboard would 'ebb" back or un-expand......if that makes sense. I only notice this when on 1080i and don't seem to notice it on 480p or 480i.

I wish I knew if there was a way to disable SVM to see if it would eliminate any of the edge enhancements I *think* I notice. Or for that matter a way to turn down the sharpness....as It's weird that the Factory settings for those "picture" values (Movie,multimedia, sports, etc...) have different sharpness amounts that you seem to be able to adjust in the SAM....but not your "personal" picture settings for when you are in AV1 or AV4. I wonder if the sharpness setting in that mode is taken from AV1 or AV2-3???
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post #10 of 177 Old 02-15-2004, 05:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by eroteme
To save the settings after changing something in the service menu on the 30pw850H press Status/Exit, than press Menu , now shut off the TV and turn it back on . jaypb are you sure you are saving the settings after adjusting stuff ? There are lots of tweaks and such in SAM (service alignment mode) than there is also the SDM (service default mode) not sure what this is but you can enter it by pressing 062596 Menu . As far as the long startup on the TV mine does it too, it is kind of funny, wonder what takes it so long, but oh well I can live with it .

When I started yesterday, I wasn't using the "3" input after setting the width where I wanted it. Then I would "back out" of the SAM from what I can recall by hiting Status/Exit and then Menu........and shutting off the TV via the remote. Then I'd turn the TV back on and the overscan would still be there. Then I would go BACK into the SAM and I'd see the values "didn't take". Then I went to the Yahoogroups Philips board (which seems devoid of any useful content lately with the exception of porn related posts ) and found the post about entering "3" and toggling between the AV inputs.

I haven't tried to go into the "customer service mode" or the "covergence mode" if they even exist. Having 2 kids running around while doing this yesterday was a chore. I should've done it at night with NO ONE around...including my wife.

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post #11 of 177 Old 02-15-2004, 06:35 PM
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the settings are saved when you exit the menu so there is no need to press three on the remote.

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post #12 of 177 Old 02-15-2004, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai
the settings are saved when you exit the menu so there is no need to press three on the remote.

I actually tried that the first 2-3 times when I exited the menu, but every time I turned the TV back on, the EW width that I was trying to "change" was back to it's original state. It was only after I found the post on the Yahoogroups site stating to hit "3" after adjusting each setting that my set was able to "save" my changes. For some reason, only after hitting "3" when I was in 1080i (for me CVI) and 480P (when I was in A/V 4) were my changes saved.

On a related note, which setting in the SAM will allow me to adjust the "bowing" that I *think* I'm seeing when I'm viewing a 4:3 digital signal? Is it the "hor-bow" setting? What I'm seeing is (for lack of a better description) is something like this on the sides of a 4:3 image when I'm on a digital channel not broadcasting in 16:9:

( 4:3 image)

Where the "(" above are the edges of the 4:3 image on my 16:9 screen.

Though not as exaggerated. But the lines are curved somewhat when looking at it from top to bottom. It's easy for me to see this on the local CBS affiliate because they use grey bars not black when they aren't passing a 16:9 image. And I know it's not the station itself because it's also evident on other D* HD channels (Discovery HD and HDNET when they show commercials) and several other local Digital channels whereas on my other HDTV's the geometry seems perfect.
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post #13 of 177 Old 02-15-2004, 07:21 PM
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that would be the parabolic adjustment aka pincushin it is listed as ew para in the geometry menu.

That is strange about your set. when I exit the menu by pressing the exit button and then power off the TV with the remote, my settings are changed.

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post #14 of 177 Old 02-15-2004, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai
that would be the parabolic adjustment aka pincushin it is listed as ew para in the geometry menu.

That is strange about your set. when I exit the menu by pressing the exit button and then power off the TV with the remote, my settings are changed.

Thanks for the "translation". I'm going to give the parabolic an adjustment and see what happens. I'll also try to save the settings WITHOUT the "3" entry and see what happens.

I'm also *contemplating* toying with the "Sharpness" settings in the Smart Settings/Personal Submenu. I figure........if it SHOWS sharpness as "being there" it *may* be adjustable...........right ?!?!!?
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post #15 of 177 Old 02-15-2004, 08:20 PM
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what is really needed is a focus adjustment for each input

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post #16 of 177 Old 02-15-2004, 09:26 PM
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I wonder what the difference between different software versions are on this TV? In my set, the SWID is EM1U21-1.1 and my set was made in June 2003. We just set up a new display model at my store and i check that software version and it is EM1U21-1.2 and was made in December 2003. With the display set, the color banding doesn't seem to be an issue, althoguh, I can't test it in a dark envionment, which is when I notice mine the most. What software version does your set have?

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post #17 of 177 Old 02-15-2004, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai
what is really needed is a focus adjustment for each input

On a direct view TV such as this, how would one accomplish this? Through the convergence menu? Or havning a tech come in and do it from within the TV? I've actually only thought of Projection TV's when hearing focus adjustments........then again I haven't had a Direct View Widescreen Tube TV for that long.........
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post #18 of 177 Old 02-15-2004, 11:48 PM - Thread Starter
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The other "weird" thing with this TV was RIGHT out of the box (and it seemed to be a brand new UNOPENED box from Best Buy) I thought I had a problem with the TV. The picture or "field of vision" seemed "tilted or skewed. After fiddling around in the REGULAR menu and RTFM, I noticed there was a "rotation" setting. For some reason this set was set to "12"...and bringing it BACK to ZERO leveled off the picture.

Did anyone else have to adjust the rotation out of the box.......or should I say "was anyone's rotation NOT at 12"??? The other odd setting on the TV was that it was in 16:9 ZOOM mode (think that's what it was called) and I had to set it to "Widescreen" on one of the inputs (AV2) maybe??? So I can understand how someone would hook this TV up and NOT be able to figure out how to operate it (since most people don't RTFM).

This is my 2nd Philips HDTV (the other is a 17" LCD WS). Oddly, this TV is able to be "turned back on" and stay on AV1/AV4 and the TV "reads" an HD input (1080i). On my 17" LCD from Philips EVERYTIME I turn it back on I have to hit the "HD" button on the Philips remote because the TV doesn't seem to be able to be turned back on in HD mode.

Go figure............maybe I'll have to check the SAM on that TV and see if it's an option .........
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post #19 of 177 Old 02-16-2004, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by oryan_dunn
I wonder what the difference between different software versions are on this TV? In my set, the SWID is EM1U21-1.1 and my set was made in June 2003. We just set up a new display model at my store and i check that software version and it is EM1U21-1.2 and was made in December 2003. With the display set, the color banding doesn't seem to be an issue, althoguh, I can't test it in a dark envionment, which is when I notice mine the most. What software version does your set have?

Went back into the SAM...my SW Version/ID is: EM1U21-1.2. Not sure what the build date is as I need another 20 hands to move this heavy behemoth around. I'll have to see if it's on the box.

I *think* since I started moving the overscan around I've "revealed" some of the dark banding. I *think* I noticed it during the hockey game on Sunday (on a white background).

Also went back in and tried to "see" if there was a way to set the sharpness in the AV4 or CVI modes. And I *think* there is. My PERSONAL setting in CVI mode for the picture settings WAS "84" when I started this excersize in angst . Too high for me. I wanted to try and "tone it down" since when I switched to the "weak" signal picture setting (which had a setting of 14) the picture looked *somewhat* better...more definition and less "bleeding/murkiness" to me. So I went back into the SAM, toggled to the Smart Settings and then, went down to "weak" picture mode. I then toggled the "AV" button on the remote to get the CVI input screen to come up and my 1080i picture screen came up. I had on the "Over Ireland" Documentary on HDNET.

Hopefully I'm remembering these steps in order. I hit the "picture" button on the remote and I was able to see the picture "modes" toggling in red at the top of the screen (PERSONAL/MOVIE/MULTIMEDIA/SPORTS/WEAK). While all the settings for WEAK (BRIGHT/COLOR/PICTURE/SHARPNESS/TINT) were up I toggled the picture button over so the top of the screen said PERSONAL and changed all the settings for WEAK to match what I had for PERSONAL on my original CVI mode (I wrote them down before I went IN to the SAM---Brightness, Color and Picture). I then hit "3" to save these settings and this "action" returned me to the original SAM screen (on my TV it's blue). I turned the TV off from there.

When I turned the TV back on and went to CVI my SHARPNESS was STILL at "84" for PERSONAL....even though I had assumed that by adjusting the WEAK settings in the SAM it wuold be turned down to 14. So I pulled up the "weak" settings via the picture button and THEN went into the MENU and made the WEAK settings for BRIGHT/COLOR/PIC to what they were in my personal settings. When I THEN toggled BACK to personal, the settings I had JUST made for WEAK were now on the screen under the PERSONAL picture settings. Not sure WHAT made them change over. But, now my SHARPNESS is 14 in personal.......whereas before it was 84. And the color/brightness/picture are where I want them to be.

It also looks like you can adjust the TINT in the SAM for each picture setting.......but I didn't do that.

So, it seems you CAN adjust the sharpness for the CVI/AV4 input from the SAM. It's just a question of IF you can do it for your "personal" settings. At this point I'm not sure if you can just MANIPULATE it right from the MENU/Picture button or if I did something in the SAM to get it to "accept" it.

YMMV.
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post #20 of 177 Old 02-16-2004, 08:13 AM
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software version on my set is em1v21-1.1 manufacturer date june 2003. My rotation is currently set to 25 to get a level picture.

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post #21 of 177 Old 02-16-2004, 09:31 AM
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Now that I think about ... If CVI and AV4 both support 480i/480p/1080i than how come if I run a game on XBOX lets say that isn't 480p its very dark the picture ? Even so the dashboard on XBOX which is only available in 480i is very dark, I can still read it but very dark still . Was just thinking about this that if the inputs support 480i, shouldnt the picture still have nice colors like the component inputs on the other flat screens in my house (which are only 480i) the picture is still very nice and colors are nice . Maybe both my inputs are bad ?
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post #22 of 177 Old 02-16-2004, 12:11 PM
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I recently purchased this set and have spent quite a bit of time in the SAM. Here's what I've found:

1. I also can't shrink the horizontal dimension as much as I'd like, but by shrinking it as far as it will go and centering the image horizontally, it's acceptable to me, just barely.

2. By using all of the various SAM settings, I was able to get the geometry just about perfect. It wasn't easy, but I was reasonably satisfied with the controls provided in the SAM.

3. I think the settings are saved per input type (480i, 480p, 1080i), not by input, but I could be wrong there. More experimentation should answer that one though.

4. I found that by hitting STATUS, then hitting MENU, the settings are saved. I've never hit '3', and my settings are saved, so I don't know what the deal is with that. I also noticed that whenever powering up after being in the SAM, the TV defaults to the TUNER input regardless of what input I was working on when I powered it off. This is not normally the case, in that the TV powers on with the same input selected as when it was last powered off.

5. At its default settings, my set did do some of the throbbing based on image brightness, but bringing down the brightness and picture settings to correct values effectively eliminated it.

6. I think the whole reason the sharpness control is disabled for 480p and 1080i sources is that the set is letting the signal through unaltered, which is the way I like it. Sharpness controls are a leftover from the days of soft analog signals.

7. I did need to adjust the rotation a bit to level my image. Can't remember what the settings was off the top of my head.

8. I couldn't figure out any way to set SVM one way or the other, so I'm not sure what's up with that. If someone could find out what the deal is with SVM on this set, I'd be happy to know.

9. I also noticed that inputting 480i on the component input (either one) resulted in a very dim image. By adjusting the brightness, picture, and color settings, I was able to obtain a pretty good image though.

Dave
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post #23 of 177 Old 02-16-2004, 01:15 PM
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The rotation is in the normal user menu. This is provided because it depends on which way you have your set facing. Because of the earth magnetic field, the tilt of your picture will vary, so if you move the set, you'll have to adjust the rotation. I also am interested in the SVM, but so far no information has suffaced regarding this issue on philps tvs.

Dave when you say acceptable levels on your brightness, what numbers are they at. I notice the "blooming" on regular cable, especially when the set is in 4:3 mode. I've really only calibrated the tv based on my own eye and a THX thing on my Finding Nemo DVD. Is the Avia or DVE worth the money?

Ryan

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post #24 of 177 Old 02-17-2004, 06:57 AM
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Ryan-

I haven't quite settled on final values yet, but right now my brightness and picture settings are both in the low 40s. After checking last night, my set does still do a little of the image shifting at the left side when the image brightness changes substantially. I didn't notice before because most of the network icons are on the bottom right side, but our CBS HD channel here puts a logo on both bottom corners (gotta love that!), and I saw that the left logo does move slightly when the image goes between dark and light. Definitely not the greatest power supply in this set. Hopefully it'll last for a while. I got the set so cheap I can't really complain.

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post #25 of 177 Old 02-17-2004, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Dave W
Ryan-

I haven't quite settled on final values yet, but right now my brightness and picture settings are both in the low 40s. After checking last night, my set does still do a little of the image shifting at the left side when the image brightness changes substantially. I didn't notice before because most of the network icons are on the bottom right side, but our CBS HD channel here puts a logo on both bottom corners (gotta love that!), and I saw that the left logo does move slightly when the image goes between dark and light. Definitely not the greatest power supply in this set. Hopefully it'll last for a while. I got the set so cheap I can't really complain.

Dave

In my case, the reason I noticed it was because when I was watching HDNET I started to see the large amount of overscan on the sides. Then, when I thought I had it adjusted and I came out of the SAM I was watching "Higher Definition" and they had a lot of bright scenes with flashing lights.....and all of a sudden I realized that the EW width was set to where it SHOULD be, but the brightness/darkness was causing an "ebb and flow" effect with the bug everytime the scene would change.

I actually STILL notice it.....but I'm trying not to notice it as much.....
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post #26 of 177 Old 02-17-2004, 09:08 AM
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i adjusted my set so that there was less overscan and when you set it to be too narrow the warped picture is common. They could build TVs that have geometry like a PC monitor but it would cost you twice as much for a set than it does now.

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post #27 of 177 Old 02-17-2004, 09:38 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jaypb
When I compare the overscan to the picture on the 17" LCD Philips, it seems that the 17" LCD "reveals" or shows a good percentage more additional "picture" than the 30" Philips can. But, when I went into the service menu on the 30", I COULD NOT get the EW width setting to mirror what I was seeing on the 17" LCD. The accessible picture would just "end" on the sides, where the 17" was still showing what the actual scene was "beyond" the field of vision of the 30" view. To my eyes, it almost looked like the 30" was "zooming in" whereas the 17" and my 50" had a "real" 16:9 picture. Damn strange. What could cause this? I know the 30pw850H "locks" when it receives a 1080I signal. The non-HD channels seem fine as far as the overscan goes. No issues there. I *think* I understand overscanning a little and can comprehend *some* of the geometry settings and what part of a picture a set can "hide"........but this 30" didn't even seem to HAVE the ability to "see" what my 17" LCD could......or the 50" for that matter. It was just black lines on the sides whereas my other 2 sets had additional "imagery" on either side. Not sure if that makes sense, but it's the only way I can describe it.

I know what you mean. I decided to see what I could do because I could tell that I was missing just a little info. Your description is right on. It seems that the EW.Width setting streched or compresses a black matte whereas the Hor Shift moves the picture left and right behind that matting. It is really strange. I want to compress the EW.Width so I can see the black on both sides, then center the the compressed image, then strech the black out. Then I want to do the same to the actual picture behind. But there is no way to center the black that EW.Width pulls in, and there is no way to strech or compress what Hor Shift moves left and right. Any ideas? I really only want to get this right because I use the component out of my Radeon 9700 and when playing games at 1080i, the huds of the games are usually cut off. But as far as the blooming, I don't really notice it unless the image is pillarboxed 4:3 content and the edge of the content is visable.

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post #28 of 177 Old 02-18-2004, 05:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by oryan_dunn
I know what you mean. I decided to see what I could do because I could tell that I was missing just a little info. Your description is right on. It seems that the EW.Width setting streched or compresses a black matte whereas the Hor Shift moves the picture left and right behind that matting. It is really strange. I want to compress the EW.Width so I can see the black on both sides, then center the the compressed image, then strech the black out. Then I want to do the same to the actual picture behind. But there is no way to center the black that EW.Width pulls in, and there is no way to strech or compress what Hor Shift moves left and right. Any ideas? I really only want to get this right because I use the component out of my Radeon 9700 and when playing games at 1080i, the huds of the games are usually cut off. But as far as the blooming, I don't really notice it unless the image is pillarboxed 4:3 content and the edge of the content is visable.

I haven't "toyed" with any additional settings since my flurry of weekend e-mails

I'm going to give it a few days and see how these "changes" I've made pan out. Then I'll go from there. I still have 12 days or so to return the TV....and I'm going to wait and see if Best Buy sales prices anything else "in the same range" for what I paid for this one.

I know that you "get what you pay for"......and in my case this is a TV for the bedroom.......and it'll only be watched at night (mostly by the wife---so her idea of "perfect" is of a lesser critical nature than mine).

I posted the question of whether or not the SVM can be turned off on the Yahoogroups Philips site......but no responses yet.
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post #29 of 177 Old 02-19-2004, 09:00 PM
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I posted this as a separate thread, but I wanted to make sure that people that are subscribed to this thread see this info:

Possible answer to Philips SVM

I was just messing around with my TV (30PW850H) and adjusting via the service menu, but in my doing so, I also paid a little more attention to the options in the regular menu. I have been on the lookout for a way to turn off Scan Velocity Modulation since the day I got the set, and I was just turning stuff on and off and adjusted the Dynamic Contrast. I couldn't remember exactly what SVM was supposed to do or how you knew it was turned on, so I looked it up on the internet, and came across this definition:

scan velocity modulation - TV feature; a circuit that increases the speed of electrons to their respective phosphor dots. Often produces an artificial "hard edge," which is why it should be switched off for sources such as DVD and HDTV. Used in professional projectors as a form of dithering to reduce the visibility of scan lines. Also called velocity scan modulation or, generically, edge enhancement.
(cnet.com)

This seems to be what Dynamic Contrast does as when you turn it on, edges seemed to be affected just like the description above. Is it possible that this option actually controls the SVM of the set? I'm not extremly knoledgeable on the inner workings of TVs, but this seemed logical. I have always had this option off as it seemed to make the image too crisp and detail is usually lost in the process (another thing I have heard SVM does). Opinions from the rest of you (or facts if you are postive about this)?

Ryan

Edit:
was just on the philips uk site and under a description for their TVs, I found this:

Scavem : Dynamic Scavem
Dramatically improves overall definition and contrast without any discoloration or blurring.

Seems like the Dynamic contrast may be the way to turn it off.

PS. Philips has some really kick a$$ tvs over in the UK. In particular, there is a 32" widescreen that is black but encased in wood with "sapele veneer". It looks really cool. The model if you are interested in looking is 32PW9586

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post #30 of 177 Old 02-20-2004, 08:01 AM
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I was at Best Buy yesterday looking at potential HDTV sets ,when viewing the Philips 30PW850H I to noticed this "zoom" effect as bright scenes would be displayed then fade away etc., sitting to the left of it was a Sony Wega 30" Widescreen HDTV and it did not have this symptom even tho the screen was noticably more vibrant ..then again it cost nearly double the price , Other than this I was pretty happy with the picture quality, So this is not a "bad batch" of philips were talking about here?, its just the way this tv is built? According to the Video Essentials DVD having this type of 'fault' indicates a weak power supply ..I can't imagine the set lasting a long time if this is the case? ...I was seriously considering getting it but not sure anymore
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