CRT vs DLP, RP HDTV, Plasma? Which is best? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 06:39 AM
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LannyR,

The only real limitations of a Tube are size & weight. If I were shopping for any display under 40", I don't think you will be able to do better than a Tube. Tubes still give you the best PQ, durability and the biggest bang for the buck. The all new Sony 34XBR960's due out in a few months will even have an integrated HD tuner & 2nd Generation Super Fine Pitch Tube w/an even lower price tag than the current 910's. That's not a bang for your buck, it's an EXPLOSION!
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post #92 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Wow, you'd really consider buying an EDTV over a fully-integrated HDTV?
Not everybody can make use of a built-in ATSC tuner.

In my case i cannot do a roof antenna and besides, i time-shift all my TV viewing through my cable-company-supplied SA8000 DVR so i don't even need a tuner at all. Once they start rolling out the SA8000-HD in my area i'll be able to record and watch Hi Def, then i'll probably slightly regret not getting the ED Plasma, but still the vast majority of my TV viewing is 4:3. No need for any sort of ATSC tuner in my particular case, and others may have similar reasons for not needing one.

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post #93 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 07:01 AM
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Ok... It's just when you start throwing around $$$ like that, I'd hate to see someone buy something that's no good to them in a year or two.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #94 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 07:32 AM
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Randy,

Granted, I too view 4:3 the majority of the time, and that's one of the reasons I opted for the 40XBR. But you need to think a bit about future proofing your purchase. Your Tube is going to be around at least a decade, and during this broadcast transition period you are going to experience a gradual shift towards 16:9 broadcasting. As for the integrated tuner, I'd love to have one just to be able to use it for PIP. Plus, in many areas you can get more "free" OAR HD Channels than your local cable co. provides...you don't need a roof ant. either. BUT, all that said, I believe the 2nd Generation Super Fine Pitch Tube alone is worth it. The resolution capabilities are second to none. 34" is too small for my particular viewing area, but if this size fits for you, then the 960 is the one I'd be looking at.
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post #95 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cajieboy
LannyR,

The only real limitations of a Tube are size & weight. If I were shopping for any display under 40", I don't think you will be able to do better than a Tube. Tubes still give you the best PQ, durability and the biggest bang for the buck. The all new Sony 34XBR960's due out in a few months will even have an integrated HD tuner & 2nd Generation Super Fine Pitch Tube w/an even lower price tag than the current 910's. That's not a bang for your buck, it's an EXPLOSION!
From what I keep reading here, the Panny Plasmas rival the tubes for pq, isnt that what people have been saying?? I read that over and over in this thread. :confused:

I definitely do NOT need or want an internal tuner!!! I live in NYC in an apt with no access to the roof for intalling any kind of antenna, so I get no OTA reception. I have cable for that, so no tuner is necessary and I dont want to have to pay for something I dont need.

What is special about the 2nd Generation Super Fine Pitch Tube? I am not familiar with it, but have heard it mentioned here several times. I also heard that the current Sony isnt that good with standard tv, which for now would be about 98% of my viewing and with all my existing VHS collection, will always be there to some extent regardless of what is being broadcast. That is my big concern about the upcoming sony--will it show sd shows well, esp as well as the Panny ED Plasma. :confused:

Let me know your thoughts, I am here to learn about what people think about this stuff!

Thanks
LANNY
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post #96 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by LannyR
From what I keep reading here, the Panny Plasmas rival the tubes for pq, isnt that what people have been saying?? I read that over and over in this thread. :confused:

I definitely do NOT need or want an internal tuner!!! I live in NYC in an apt with no access to the roof for intalling any kind of antenna, so I get no OTA reception. I have cable for that, so no tuner is necessary and I dont want to have to pay for something I dont need.

What is special about the 2nd Generation Super Fine Pitch Tube? I am not familiar with it, but have heard it mentioned here several times. I also heard that the current Sony isnt that good with standard tv, which for now would be about 98% of my viewing and with all my existing VHS collection, will always be there to some extent regardless of what is being broadcast. That is my big concern about the upcoming sony--will it show sd shows well, esp as well as the Panny ED Plasma. :confused:

Let me know your thoughts, I am here to learn about what people think about this stuff!

Thanks
LANNY
Hey man, I know what you are saying. Sony mentions that the new CRTs are gonna have a 2nd Generation Super Fine Pitch Tube and almost everybody acts like it's the second coming of christ. I have a hunch that the 34" 960 isn't gonna be remarkably different form the 910 except for the internal QAM tuner and the $500 price drop. The 4:3 sets are where the biggest change is gonna be in my opinion. The real honest to goodness truth, again in my opinion, is that I still believe that a high quality Plasma like the Panny 42PWD6uy is the better deal in the long run.

Hammer
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post #97 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 12:25 PM
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Hammer, great post.

I think everything u said makes sense

But I wasnt saying "What is special about the 2nd Generation Super Fine Pitch Tube?" as a sarcastic statement--I genuinely was asking what qualities it is supposed to have, along with the current sony tubes. I havent been seriously looking at TVs since I bought mine 10 years ago, when the Sony XBR2, Mitsubishi Superflat DiamondVision and Panasonic SuperBlack models were king of the hill.
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post #98 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 02:14 PM
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Tube sets can put out great images, no doubt about it.

Something to consider in the tube vs plasma-everything-else dilemma, especially in regards to your display feeling obsolete soon.

The trends seem to be pointing strongly toward two things these days:

1. Bigger displays - the growing acceptance that many people are looking for a more home theater like experience than their old tube sets provide.

2. Flat displays.


In regards to #1, a 37" or 42" plasma is going to provide CRT-like quality (if you choose well) in a size you'll never get with CRT. It really does impact the viewing experience - I know, I own both display types. The CRT is a really good TV experience, but in comparison the plasma can be like a window on the event, even with a good SD feed.

As far as future proof, when you see everyone else with their larger display, enjoying a more cinematic experience, as good as the tube set may be you may well wish for a larger display after not too long. (That is pretty typical...even people who buy a 42" plasma sometimes start eying an even larger one after they've experienced how the 42" size difference adds to the viewing impact over their smaller TV).

In regards to #2, tube sets will be around for a while, but they are obviously on their way out. The future is flat and the transition is under way. A bulky tube set with a small image won't feel that "future-proof," even if it's HD, when it's compared to the growing offerings of the new technologies. I've lived with a plasma for almost two years and, frankly, when I walk into other people's houses to see their huge, bulky CRT sets it looks positively archaic...like an old tube radio tuner or something. I don't mean that in a snobby way - I love some of the new tube sets, but that's really what they look like once you've entered the new age :-)

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- Zoltar...plasma master...;)
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post #99 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 03:23 PM
 
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Here's the big deal about the fine pitch tube-- it gives more resolution than the mighty 1366X768 Fujitsu p50, more resolution than the Mitsubishi 73713 with 9-inch guns, more resolution than any DLP, rear projection LCD or any other CRT. In other words unless you go very high priced front projection it delivers the most resolution PERIOD! The only set that does this is the Sony 34XBR 910. This year Sony will be producing a 2d generation of this tube in both 34-inch 16:9 and 36 inch 4:3 sizes. In the future other displays may pass the XBR910s 1401 slots, but if you were to ask Sony in a court of law under oath which display delivered more resolution the 910 or a plasma they would tell you the 910! The pity is that these sets don't come in larger sizes. Also as good as a Panasonic or Fujitsu Plasma can be at black level, they still can't beat a CRT. Now resolution and black level aren't the Be all and End all of Picture quality, but in those 2 parameters which are very improtant CRT simply cannot be beat!
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post #100 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 03:52 PM
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So they should be amazing for HDTV. How are they for DVD display, and most importantly, how are they at SDTV upconverting? That is still something that must be dealt with. I cant imagine there being ANYONE who is only watching HDTV content as of right now, or even next month.
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post #101 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cajieboy
Randy,

Granted, I too view 4:3 the majority of the time, and that's one of the reasons I opted for the 40XBR. But you need to think a bit about future proofing your purchase. Your Tube is going to be around at least a decade, and during this broadcast transition period you are going to experience a gradual shift towards 16:9 broadcasting.
This is the dilemma for someone who wants to buy a TV now in this transitional period. From what i understand 4:3 broadcasts will always be around even once it goes digital (things like news, synidcated programming, Speedvision, some prime time shows etc etc) although more and more programming will undoubtedly become HD widescreen. I went with a 4:3 TV because even in the future most of my viewing will still be 4:3 even once i get an HD cable DVR later this year. Basically whether one gets a 4:3 set or a widescreen set/display they're going to have to put up with black bars one way or the other (top and bottom or left right - unless stretched). I rarely watch DVDs but if i did watch a lot of em then i probably would have gotten a 42" ED Plasma instead of my 32" tube and just deal with the black bars. But i can only future-proof myself so much so i compromised toward the 4:3 side of it based solely on my current and future viewing habits. At least i bought an HD-ready TV, but i just couldn't commit to a widescreen yet because i'll be watching so little of it compared to 4:3. I don't mind the black bars when watching the occasional widescreen DVD, so i presume i won't mind them when the time comes to watch HDTV. I love the Plasma technology and i would have love to have a nice flat panel and was even willing to spend the triple what i paid for the tube TV, but i just couldn't justify it for my needs no matter how badly i wanted to need one. Some nights i do wish i would have gotten the Plasma :(

I'm an extreme case based on my particular 4:3 viewing habits but for someone who watches a lot of DVDs and doesn't mind watching their 4:3 content in a stretch mode or with black side bars then of course a widescreen set of some sort would be a better choice for them, preferrably an ED Plasma. Some people get the Plasma and start watching more DVDs but i'm just not a big movie watcher. If i do want to see a new movie i prefer to go to the theater but that's a rare occurence too. But like i said i'm an extreme case, and most people aren't like me. Maybe i should watch more DVDs and primetime programming like normal people ;)

Now if it came down either a widescreen 34" / 38" tube or a 37" / 42" ED Plasma, i'd go for the Plasma for sure and enjoy the heck out of it :D

I'm pretty sure within a few years i'll end up getting a Plasma - i ofen picture one sitting in place of my box TV.......

Randy
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post #102 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 04:37 PM
 
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Take this to the bank and cash it: run a plasma 20 hours a day for four years and tell me how much the brightness has dropped. Do the same with a CRT. I GUARANTEE you the CRT will stand up better. Some people don't mind buying a display every four years, but alot of people who have owned CRT expect better durability than that. Heck, I don't know what the REAL durability of Plasma is--I also don't know anyone else who does--I do know alot of Producer quoters as to how long a plasma will last. Let me ask you this: Most urban legends start with a grain of truth. Why is it that alot of non informed people say that plasma displays aren't that durable? Are all of them completely deranged? Why do Plasma display producers even give out half-brightness figures? Do any other displays give out half brightness figures? This is a real sore point with plasma aficianados and it could be that the whole plasma durability question is urban myth--but could it also be possible that even though they're not going to be really dim at four years the simple truth that plasma display producers don't want everyone to know is that THEY REALLY DO DIM MORE WITH USE THAN OTHER DISPLAYS! Now let's listen to the plasma purchasers scream--let's listen to all the ex industry workers(poster supporters) say that I don't know what I'm talking about--but they'll never do this test: turn a plasma display on and a CRT on and run them 24/7 for four years and then ask people which display they would rather have? It won't be Plasma and that is the dirty little secret the industry doesn't want you to know. It's about like a Chevrolet Vega Aluminum block engine. If handled with care it could last. If it wasn't handled with care it didn't--that's why they replaced it in the Pontiac Astre version of the car in 1977 with an iron block engine. I'm truthful enough to say that maybe plasma deterioration may be small enough that it may not make a difference in choosing a display--now let's see here if plasma lovers are TRUTHFUL enough to say that when pushed to the limit plasma durability is INFERIOR compared to CRT!!!
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post #103 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 06:41 PM
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Hammer, it's not that the 910's or 960's are the second coming of Christ, but rather we know a good thing when we see it! Why snipe at Sony? Can't figure that one unless your moniker of "super instigator" is at work here, and you just want to see the sparks fly by making fireball comments.

Lanny, I happen to like Plasma too, and plan to upgrade to a much larger screen (50"+) in the future. But for under 40", I'd would not recommend a Plasma over a Tube, and specifically a Sony 910 or 960. As for the tuner, you do not need a roof ant. to receive OAR HD Broadcast, and have you ever thought of splitting your cable signal between two HD Tuners? It'll work miracles for HD PIP. In fact, you may be able to chuck out that ole cable box and use the Cable Card Reader offered on the 960's. It's gives you a choice, and in my books it's always better to have an option/choice than no choice at all. How far away to you plan to sit away from your display? This may help you decide on a screen size. If 34" is too small and you want a larger widescreen TV, then yeah go for a large screen Plasma...ie. Panny 42"er or Fujitsu 50"er.

Rich, how far away from your Panny 42"er do view the screen? I sit about 10' away from my 40XBR, and it seems about right for me, but for a Plasma screen I've been told I'd need a 50"er to be in the "sweet spot".
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post #104 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jet Champion
Take this to the bank and cash it: run a plasma 20 hours a day for four years and tell me how much the brightness has dropped. Do the same with a CRT. I GUARANTEE you the CRT will stand up better. Some people don't mind buying a display every four years, but alot of people who have owned CRT expect better durability than that. Heck, I don't know what the REAL durability of Plasma is--I also don't know anyone else who does--I do know alot of Producer quoters as to how long a plasma will last. Let me ask you this: Most urban legends start with a grain of truth. Why is it that alot of non informed people say that plasma displays aren't that durable? Are all of them completely deranged? Why do Plasma display producers even give out half-brightness figures? Do any other displays give out half brightness figures? This is a real sore point with plasma aficianados and it could be that the whole plasma durability question is urban myth--but could it also be possible that even though they're not going to be really dim at four years the simple truth that plasma display producers don't want everyone to know is that THEY REALLY DO DIM MORE WITH USE THAN OTHER DISPLAYS! Now let's listen to the plasma purchasers scream--let's listen to all the ex industry workers(poster supporters) say that I don't know what I'm talking about--but they'll never do this test: turn a plasma display on and a CRT on and run them 24/7 for four years and then ask people which display they would rather have? It won't be Plasma and that is the dirty little secret the industry doesn't want you to know. It's about like a Chevrolet Vega Aluminum block engine. If handled with care it could last. If it wasn't handled with care it didn't--that's why they replaced it in the Pontiac Astre version of the car in 1977 with an iron block engine. I'm truthful enough to say that maybe plasma deterioration may be small enough that it may not make a difference in choosing a display--now let's see here if plasma lovers are TRUTHFUL enough to say that when pushed to the limit plasma durability is INFERIOR compared to CRT!!!
That's all good and all, and there is truth to Plasma's dimming over time. But come on, how many of us run a TV 24/7 365 days a year? The truth of the matter is, in real world use, by the time the Plasma dims out too much, every damn TV purchased in the same year as the Plasma is gonna have the obsolete label written all over it. So, basically what I am saying is, in 15 years when my current plasma is getting dim and considered a dinosaur your CRT will be a dinosaur too and who cares if it is a maybe little brighter. We can throw inconsequential facts out all day, most of us are buying for the next 2-5 years right now. You know something too, I have a couple of perfectly functioning CRT TV's that are basically dust collectors and if I was buying the best CRT available today, it would be collecting dust probably within four years too. I realize that some of us "may" milk the entire life out of a TV, but in reality most will replace or relegate their TVs to lesser duties long before dimming is bothersome.

Hammer
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post #105 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cajieboy
Hammer, it's not that the 910's or 960's are the second coming of Christ, but rather we know a good thing when we see it! Why snipe at Sony? Can't figure that one unless your moniker of "super instigator" is at work here, and you just want to see the sparks fly by making fireball comments.
Hey, I know the 910 is a good TV. It was on my initial shopping list until I realized my viewing distance was innapropriate for it. But I do believe that many overhype its biggest positive of super fine pitch due to the fact that MOST do not sit close enough to their sets to take advantage of the increased resolution. I'm not focused on the manufacturers name either. It could be Panasonic instead and I'd still make the same comments. It's just that it happens to be Sony who makes these TVs. And yes, I do like to instigate a good debate. No, I am not a troll, but I do believe in calling a spade a spade and thus I thought I would bring a little reality into the situation.

Hammer
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post #106 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 07:15 PM
 
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The last time I checked the average lifetime of a CRT was eight years. How good will Plasma look after 8 years of use...Oh I forgot...that's why Plasma dims so we can buy another one and make the industry more money! Oh by the way when the majority of American millionaires chooses to buy a car they buy a used one--really backward compared to plasma buyers?
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post #107 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cajieboy
Lanny, I happen to like Plasma too, and plan to upgrade to a much larger screen (50"+) in the future. But for under 40", I'd would not recommend a Plasma over a Tube, and specifically a Sony 910 or 960. As for the tuner, you do not need a roof ant. to receive OAR HD Broadcast, and have you ever thought of splitting your cable signal between two HD Tuners? It'll work miracles for HD PIP. In fact, you may be able to chuck out that ole cable box and use the Cable Card Reader offered on the 960's. It's gives you a choice, and in my books it's always better to have an option/choice than no choice at all. How far away to you plan to sit away from your display? This may help you decide on a screen size. If 34" is too small and you want a larger widescreen TV, then yeah go for a large screen Plasma...ie. Panny 42"er or Fujitsu 50"er.
Hi Cajiboy
• Why do you only like plasma in the larger sizes?

• What is OAR? Should I assume it stands for Open Air Reception or something like that? If so, then you can forget about any kind of reception where I live in NYC with lots of tall buildings around to block the signal.

• I dont think I can split the cable signal or chuck the cable box like you said. I currently have 2 SD digital cable boxes. One plugs into my ReplayTV DVR and the other goes into my new DVD recorder. Both of these have internal hard drives and can record shows, but only in SDTV. It will be a while before I would be able to get any HDTV recorders. The way I have it now, I can record a different show on each of these units since they are hooked to separate cable boxes. I also have each cable box hooking up direct to my TV, just in case I want to bypass watching through my other sources. As for PIP, I currently have it now and I would say since 1994, I have probably used it 4x. It does nothing for me. So . . . because I use the cable signal going into my replay and my DVD recorder, I think I would need to keep my cable boxes, instead of using a cable card reader. What I was planning to do was keep my current settup, but just replace one of the cable boxes with a HDTV one so I can view HD content live through whatever new HDTV I get (um . . . or ED :D ). Can you see any other workaround than that? And I wouldnt be watching much HDTV either, because with the advent of DVRs, I almost NEVER watch anything live!!!!

• I sit about 10 feet from my tv, I think. But my actual limitation is by the size of the wall unit that the TV needs to fit in. The wall unit covers the entire opposite side of the room from the TV, with an opening for a TV that is only 39" wide. I can do nothing about that. It does seem the perfect size for the Panny ED 37" Plazma though. I have been living with a 27" set for the past 10 years, so even that Panny will seem nice and big in comparison.

--LANNY
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post #108 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 07:24 PM
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So you guys keep saying what a good TV the sonys are because of the extra resolution, but thus far every one who has said that has avoided answering my question about how well it displays SDTV, of which there is and will be plenty of out there for quite some time.!!!! Earlier in this thread it was described as being dissapointing at upconverting.
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post #109 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 07:34 PM
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cajieboy,

I sit between 8 to 10 feet away, typically 9ish feet. From my seat it looks smooth, sharp, clean and suprisingly cinematic. I always hear from guests that it's like being at the movies, which is surprising for a 42" screen.

It looks very much like these screen shots I took of The Hulk playing on my plasma, only better...:)

THE HULK

(When you view the images, make sure "original size" is chosen below the first image once you've enlarged it. The rest will display in original size).
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post #110 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jet Champion
The last time I checked the average lifetime of a CRT was eight years. How good will Plasma look after 8 years of use...Oh I forgot...that's why Plasma dims so we can buy another one and make the industry more money! Oh by the way when the majority of American millionaires chooses to buy a car they buy a used one--really backward compared to plasma buyers?
In 8 years, go buy an 8 year old used CRT then. The millionaires and I will buy the new PanaSonySamsung 150" Ultrafine 5000p Ultra HDTV DiLithium Xenon Plasma with the money saved from not buying new cars.

Seriously, you can't compare the super high depreciation rate of technology to the much slower depreciating automobile. 8 year old tech products aren't worth crap. Maintained 8 year old autos still can bring decent money. BTW, not that it is really relevant but I thought I would mention it. I bought my current car new in December of 93. It is over 10 years old and going strong and has many years left if I don't have an accident (knock on wood). I like not having a car payment, more money for high tech goodies. :D

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post #111 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 07:47 PM
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Hammer, I bought my current TV ten years ago and I have the 4th service call in on it since December. Up until then, it was sturdy as a car though. :D Oh, and I bought it new too. :cool:

R Harkness, OMG, those pics are breathtaking. I WISH I were your neighbor!!! :p

--LANNY
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post #112 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by LannyR
Hammer, I bought my current TV ten years ago and I have the 4th service call in on it since December. Up until then, it was sturdy as a car though. :D Oh, and I bought it new too. :cool:

R Harkness, OMG, those pics are breathtaking. I WISH I were your neighbor!!! :p

--LANNY
I'm not surprised it lasted that long. Any TV can if it is lucky and something inside doesn't give out. My ex-stepfather a few years back was using this really old color CRT. I think it was from the 70's or 80's. It still worked, a little finicky at times, but still worked. Oh, and it was dimmed out too, OMG!!! He wasn't a big TV watcher though so that is what he had. I think for the type of people that come to these forums, the length of use of a certain TV comes down to when they get an itch for something better and not so much because of their TV dieing of old age.

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post #113 of 189 Old 03-19-2004, 08:22 PM
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Hammer, I think you are correct. Unfortunatly, I am not as financially able as they seem to be do follow their example (although I WISH I were!!!).

I think that older sets tended to last longer. I have friends who are using 15 year old sets that still look perfectly good, but no one who has had a newer set has had it last very long.

I secretly believe that the MAIN reason my set is on the verge of going is that I accidently forgot to renew my service contract on it this year when the renewal notice got buried under other mail just as I was going off on vacation. Either that, or my TV is getting even with me for all the time I have drooled over HDTV or plasma models in my home theater mags right in front of its face (um…screen)--it knew, it knew! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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post #114 of 189 Old 03-20-2004, 06:39 AM
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R Harkness, OMG, those pics are breathtaking. I WISH I were your neighbor!!!

And that's the Panasonic ED plasma! The one some people like to pooh-pooh because it's not "real Hi-Def." In my experience, it is the rare display of any type that combines the smoothness and clarity of that panel, especially with DVDs. It's also the rare display these days that looks superb with any source signal, rather than optimizing for one type (Hi-Def) and making you have to take a hit on another (lower res signals).

My main focus is DVD, but my family watches tons of regular cable (analog and digital), and we also watch Hi-Def. But a good DVD transfer can, in it's clarity and realism and smoothness, thrill me as much as Hi-Def images I've seen on Hi-Def sets. Each display type has it's strengths weakness, plasma included of course. But there's a sense of the action coming alive on a good plasma, the combination of size, clarity, vividness and believability that can lead to a window-onto-the-movie-set feeling, that smaller tube sets and RPTVs don't quite match for me.

I've found that with quite a few Hi-Def tube widescreen sets their processing - up resing of NTSC and DVDs - shows more picture artifacts, more noise, than I get on my plasma (no matter how I tweak those tube sets).

I've seen the 37" Panasonic too and it looks superb. I know that a couple forum members are giddy about their Panny 37."

If you end up going tube I couldn't recommend the Sony 910 more highly. It's a gorgeous image - slightly more "dense" and tight than you'll get
with bigger displays. It has fabulous black level performance and exquisite color detail, and a non-TV-like smoothness to the image due to it's fine grid structure - films and Hi-Def look more natural and less video-like on the 910 than on other tube sets. The sacrifice being the smaller, less immersive, TV-like size of the viewing experience.

Anyway, with such great displays around these days I'll bet you're gonna love whatever you get.
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post #115 of 189 Old 03-20-2004, 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by R Harkness
And that's the Panasonic ED plasma! The one some people like to pooh-pooh because it's not "real Hi-Def."


Because for that kind of money, we can get full hi def TV's and be set for years vs. buying an ED anything and being stuck with essentially, albeit a very nice, half step. Plasma or not.

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In my experience, it is the rare display of any type that combines the smoothness and clarity of that panel, especially with DVDs. It's also the rare display these days that looks superb with any source signal, rather than optimizing for one type (Hi-Def) and making you have to take a hit on another (lower res signals).
True, but what are people who have spent $3000+ on an ED plasma going to do here pretty soon when DVD players come out that upconvert to 1080i, and ultimately we get to HD-DVD. They're screwed at that point, and guess what? They're going to have to buy an HDTV to get it done.

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My main focus is DVD, but my family watches tons of regular cable (analog and digital), and we also watch Hi-Def. But a good DVD transfer can, in it's clarity and realism and smoothness, thrill me as much as Hi-Def images I've seen on Hi-Def sets.
True enough, short term ,but it almost sounds like you're trying to console and convince yourself that this is a good buy. No offense, but I don't think it is, and now you're trying to convince yourself, and by extension others, that it is. For short term, yes, your DVD's will be amazing on that, but that's where the road ends for you, and you can't upgrade. You can't even use a DVD player that will upconvert to 1080i. You're stuck.

I respect your opinion, but I just can't fathom how anyone can push an ED anything over HD with a straight face, regardless of whether it's plasma or not.

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Each display type has it's strengths weakness, plasma included of course. But there's a sense of the action coming alive on a good plasma, the combination of size, clarity, vividness and believability that can lead to a window-onto-the-movie-set feeling, that smaller tube sets and RPTVs don't quite match for me.
That's probably true, but you have to spend a lot more money on plasma to get to that point vs. me spending maybe...$2500 absolute max for a CRT that will easily match if not beat that picture. And oh yeah, it will be an HDTV not just an EDTV.

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I've found that with quite a few Hi-Def tube widescreen sets their processing - up resing of NTSC and DVDs - shows more picture artifacts, more noise, than I get on my plasma (no matter how I tweak those tube sets).
Right. I agree. WS CRT's still have some issues, like what you describe, but if you watch a DVD with 16:9 or 2:35:1 or whatever aspect ratio on a good HD set, widescreen or not, I can assure you, that picture kicks ass. And if you go into the DVD forum and listen to the people who already enjoying upconverts to 1080i on most of their DVDs? Wow.

I don't know about you, but I want to be wide open to getting all of that, and getting an EDTV shuts me out.

Quote:

I've seen the 37" Panasonic too and it looks superb. I know that a couple forum members are giddy about their Panny 37."
I've seen it, too. Very nice.

Quote:
If you end up going tube I couldn't recommend the Sony 910 more highly. It's a gorgeous image - slightly more "dense" and tight than you'll get
with bigger displays. It has fabulous black level performance and exquisite color detail, and a non-TV-like smoothness to the image due to it's fine grid structure - films and Hi-Def look more natural and less video-like on the 910 than on other tube sets. The sacrifice being the smaller, less immersive, TV-like size of the viewing experience.
Depends on the size room you are talking about. Sony is awesome, but they are also overpriced. $2500 for an HD monitor vs. me going to Zenith and getting a fully integrated HDTV that I feel looks just about as good. But in any event, we're really back to the truth here, which is: If you want your best bang for your dollar, you still buy a CRT HDTV these days. It's that simple.

If you care more about something cool that doesn't take up a lot of space in a room because you can hang it on a wall, then yes, buy plasma. But if you're buying a TV because you want something that kicks ass now and you don't want to have to pass a kidney stone to get it done, you will jon me and not care if it's a 150 lb tube and get it done right.

Quote:

Anyway, with such great displays around these days I'll bet you're gonna love whatever you get.
Almost certainly, although again, not if you buy EDTV anything, because you're really buying a needless half step, when HD is affordable enough to get now...if you stick with CRT, that is. ;)

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #116 of 189 Old 03-20-2004, 08:17 AM
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Rich, amazing pics! I've read your posts in the past, and from reading, learning & dispelling myths about Plasma I've already moved them to the top of my list for a large screen upgrade. What surprises me most is that your panel is several years old, and since that time Panny has been improving their Plasmas w/each succeeding generation. When I look closely at your pics I have to smile & admire...is this the answer to my Holy Grail, ie. excellent life-like pic w/PQ to match, large flat wall mountable screens? Hope so. It may be a few years yet before I upgrade, unless my 40XBR forces me to enact my CC 5-Year Warranty. Just recently I've had a slight purity problem, but otherwise the Tube has performed perfectly over a year now. We'll see how it all develops.
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Originally posted by cajieboy
Rich, amazing pics! I've read your posts in the past, and from reading, learning & dispelling myths about Plasma I've already moved them to the top of my list for a large screen upgrade. What surprises me most is that your panel is several years old, and since that time Panny has been improving their Plasmas w/each succeeding generation. When I look closely at your pics I have to smile & admire...is this the answer to my Holy Grail, ie. excellent life-like pic w/PQ to match, large flat wall mountable screens? Hope so. It may be a few years yet before I upgrade, unless my 40XBR forces me to enact my CC 5-Year Warranty. Just recently I've had a slight purity problem, but otherwise the Tube has performed perfectly over a year now. We'll see how it all develops.
If I'm not mistaken, Rich's Plasma is the now current model 42pwd6uy and thus not several years old. I could be wrong though.

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post #118 of 189 Old 03-20-2004, 08:43 AM
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Lanny,

The over airwaves reception for HD Tuners may be tricky in NYC, but I'd check first w/your local electronics stores. I've seen small specialized ant that sit on the TV that are able to pickup all local HD broadcasts. Being in NYC, you've probably got access to the motherload of HD & Digital Channels. Once you've experienced their beautiful PQ on a capable HDTV, you will never want to go back to regular analog. I use cable myself, but if I had an integrated tuner I'd probably use both.

You asked about which display performs well w/4:3 SD. The best PQ I've ever seen on 4:3 SD in a large screen is from a 4:3 HDTV and I own it. It's the Sony 40XBR. At times the PQ is so close to DVD quality that you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. Not all cable channels are created equally, and your local cable co. will also factor into the scheme of things where PQ is concerned. The 40XBR is getting a bit long in the tooth as it came out around Sept. 2002, and it seems Sony is not going to upgrade this model. It's the biggest tube on the planet and has a 37" screen when viewing 16:9 HD. There is an upgrade coming in a few months that looks promising for those wanting a large screen 4:3 HDTV. It's the Sony 36XBR960. First time Sony has put their excellent Super Fine Pitch Tube in a 4:3 HDTV.

You talk about watching 4:3 SD, etc. and that's why I've mentioned these 4:3 HDTV's as they are great during this broadcast transition period. But living in NYC w/all the latest greatest broadcasting going on, I'd be more inclined to get the largest 16:9 I could afford. I think at 10', the 34"er is just too small a screen size.
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post #119 of 189 Old 03-20-2004, 08:55 AM
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Yes, Rich, those are great pictures...too bad that thing can't do HDTV at all, though.

Sure, upgrading to plasma may be really nice folks...but now, to an EDTV? That's not an upgrade.

I think cajeboy said it best right here:
Quote:
It may be a few years yet before I upgrade,
I sincerely hope that's the truth if you're talking about plasma and, when you do do it, go all the way and make sure it does HD and do it right.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #120 of 189 Old 03-20-2004, 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Yes, Rich, those are great pictures...too bad that thing can't do HDTV at all, though.

Sure, upgrading to plasma may be really nice folks...but now, to an EDTV? That's not an upgrade.

I think cajeboy said it best right here:

I sincerely hope that's the truth if you're talking about plasma and, when you do do it, go all the way and make sure it does HD and do it right.
Yeah, my BS meter is going off right now! The horizontal resolution of 852 of the EDTV Plasmas is very comparable, if not equal to most of the NON-sony widescreen CRT so-called HDTV's. The vertical resolution isn't probably too far off either. Oh, and the Panasonic ED Plasma does HDTV just fine, sure, it may no fill every pixel capable of being filled but the friends that have come over and seen mine couldn't tell that it was NOT an HDTV. In fact for a direct comparo, I have been told my picture looks BETTER than my good friends 38" RCA CRT HDTV. The only real fault you can really see is the Screen Door Effect at very close distances. At my 11 ft viewing distance, there is no SDE so that is a moot point. The truth behind the BS is that unless you like sitting close, all this ballyhooing about resolution tends to be just a bunch of wasted breath. Yeah, more resolution is better when everything else is exactly equal, but when resolution is all you got and the rest is inferior, it is just an irrelevant spec unless you sit close to take advantage of it. How do you like them apples? :D

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