Vertical bar on Zenith C32V37 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 257 Old 03-16-2004, 04:25 PM
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I too am nervous about replacing a part (the "scan boost module") when I don't understand the problem.

Trying to break bad hobbits ...
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post #92 of 257 Old 03-16-2004, 04:56 PM
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Ninja gaiden is not in High Def, however MX Unleashed and MVP Baseball 2004 is, Remember its only the HD on this TV that gives you the white lines.

And yes Zenith is very aware of this problem, My upgraded Small board is on its way and will arrive in April, its a conflict with the Scan boost module and the way the TV handles 1080i and 720p, since the C32V37 has a built in Tuner it conflicts when a source is already converted such as a cable box or a set top box. My Tech has already fixed a few C32V37s the same way!

As I mentioned in my earlier post I will let you guys know how the Upgraded System board went!
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post #93 of 257 Old 03-16-2004, 05:01 PM
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Well, then you seemed to hit the one stray person, because the most I get out of Zenith is "We've gotten one or two calls." followed by the obvious impression that they think it's the cable box (re: Anything BUT the TV) and that's the end of it.

It's amazing that you got this far. I wish I could talk to the same people you did. As far as their concerned, there's no problem, no official bulletins, no nothing.

I have even shown them this entire thread with all information. Still, they say to me there's no cases, no nothing.

I am hesitant to get real aggressive with this until I at least have some kind of acknowledgement from Zenith's side, officially that says, "Yeah, we have some TV"s that have this problem."

Because all that's going to happen as is, is I will go to my dealer two minutes down the street, (authorized dealer and repairs, etc.) and he's going to call Zenith tech just like he did last week and they're going to tell him again the same thing they keep telling him and me: Nothing.

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post #94 of 257 Old 03-16-2004, 05:57 PM
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It wasnt me who was being "aggressive" I armed my tech with what was happening with the Sonys and told them my opinion on the situation, and
he contacted Zeniths Factory Technition!

He called me the next day and told me that there were alot of people who had the same problems and that the fix was on the way but is backlogged to April due to the enormous amount of small board replacements!
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post #95 of 257 Old 03-16-2004, 06:28 PM
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You sure lucked out. Any Zenith personel I reach don't know what I'm talking about.

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post #96 of 257 Old 03-17-2004, 12:45 PM
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Not the Zenith Tech the Local Zenith Shop Technition
over here in West Virginia that Zenith told me to call! He was the one who contacted his connections in the Zenith Factory/Warehouse!

The Zenith Secretarys are clueless!
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post #97 of 257 Old 03-17-2004, 12:49 PM
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Sadly, it's more than secretarys. I've personally spoken to a tech at Zenith, and he denies any knowledge of the problem which we know exists.

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post #98 of 257 Old 03-17-2004, 01:47 PM
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Me, too. I've spoken to a myraid of people up and down the food chain as well as email. It's simply not going anywhere.

Bremerton, if you can, would you be able to dig up the actual case number and information FROM Zenith...so I can throw that at them myself?

I need you to arm us well so we can get through to someone...

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post #99 of 257 Old 03-17-2004, 01:53 PM
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ya ill dig it up!
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post #100 of 257 Old 03-17-2004, 02:40 PM
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Looks like I have something going here.

LG Electronics called ME today. THey have advised me to go ahead and get the ball rolling with my local serviceer/dealership after all.

Now, again, they don't admit that there's a problem with the TV per se, but this gal was really nice and knowledgeable and I read her a compilation of the info from this thread, and she said to get myself down for those parts.

Rock n roll time!

I still would like this confirmed:

The problem does NOT show up with DVI or DVD players or anyting else, is that correct? Only HD signals via a cable box? Straight up QAM is clear as well? I thought it was...

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post #101 of 257 Old 03-17-2004, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by LVKeith
I would not necessarily get the fix done if you are not experiencing any problems. I had previously purchased and returned a Sony 34HS1510 due to the scrolling bar problem. The problem was especially noticable using the DVI connection . The "fix" wasn't really a fix at all. Sony just rerouted the 1080i signal bypassing all signal processing. For me this resulted in a much softer picture with less brightness and contrast. It just about made the DVI connection useless. I have Cox cable which uses Scientific Atlanta boxes (Model 3250).

In a way I am glad this thread came up at this time. I was getting ready to purchase this set, but I will put that on hold for now until we have some answers as to what the "fix" will entail and how (or if) the fix will affect picture quality.

By the way, I did notice several "open box" units at Best Buy when I was there this week. This is probably a tip off that the problem will occur with the Scientific Atlanta boxes as well (Cox is pretty popular for HD services here, as they charge no extra other than box rental of 9.95/mo for the HD channels-except for Discovery HD which is $5)....

Just my .02. I have read that many that have the Sonys are satisfied with the fix-it just didn't work out for me.......

Let's hope this gets resolved soon and that Zenith offers a real "fix" rather than just a workaround like Sony..........

Keith
Points in this post concern me greatly, even though we have a legitimate problem. Are we headed to getting a real repair or a workaround that compromises the totality of this TV's performance?

I'd rather live with that little bar than have my fidelity, resolution, and performance compromised on some patch up job.

That's why Zenith not having an offical bulletin out about this disturbs me, and I am going to proceed with my people very slowly and methodically before anyone touches this set.

;)

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post #102 of 257 Old 03-17-2004, 02:56 PM
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Amen. I am in complete agreement.

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post #103 of 257 Old 03-17-2004, 07:08 PM
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Maybe good for you but for most people after 3 months it comes out of their pocket!

You must call and get someone to look at it akcnowledging the problem before the 3 month warranty is up it would be careless not to!
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post #104 of 257 Old 03-17-2004, 07:21 PM
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To clarify my previous post just a little-

The fix for the Sony's is just to bypass all digital signal processing for 1080i (and 720p) material. In essence they turn the TV in to an analog TV for 1080i material. For me this meant losing the signature "Sony" picture. The picture to me was then noticably less sharp, had less contrast and overall brightness. It was very "flat". None of the other service menu tweaks that Sony used in the fix were able to restore the original quality of the picture. I also had to reset user controls (contrast, brightness, color etc) for this "new" picture. What this resulted in was now I had to reset controls rather dramatically for all other sources (DVD 480p and SD 408i) when I switched inupts, since they were "processed" and had the original picture quality.

If you will read the Sony thread, you will notice that others disagreed with me saying that the picture wasn't compromised in any way - it was just "different". Some even preferred the softer picture. My only response to that would be that if the picture is truly better with no processing then why would Sony go through all the trouble to put in all the electronics to process the picture in the first place??? They could make alot more profit on the sets by not including the signal processing circuits.

From what I can discern from this thread, it seems that Zenith may have acknowledged a defective module or board that is causing the problem. If that is the case then no loss of picture quality (or "difference" of picture quality) should occur when the replacement is made. However, if the fix involves bypassing the video processing circuits in any way, at best the picture quality will be "different", and at worse it will be degraded somewhat. I guess we won't find out the answer to this until someone actually has the "fix" done.....

Keith

Edit: Just noticed Bremerton's recent post. I would certainly agree that you should get Zenith out ASAP during the 90 day all inclusive warranty period. Even if they don't have the parts on hand, they could at least acknowledge the problem so that you wouldn't be charged the labor costs when they do come in. Also, it would seem like if they got enough calls maybe that would put some pressure on them to get things moving with it...
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post #105 of 257 Old 03-17-2004, 07:50 PM
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Yeah, that's probably what's going to happen.

Don't you all find this curious that it happens ONLY with cable boxes, component inputs, and 1080i? NOTHING else? Seems a rather narrow field for which to have an entire TV problem issue...

That's the part of this I'm not sure about.

I would think if the problem were really with the TV outright, I'd see some other manifestations under other conditions.

Oh well, my guy may come out as soon as tomorrow, so we'll see....

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post #106 of 257 Old 03-17-2004, 08:40 PM
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i wonder if my multi year service plan will cover this down the road?i get inhd,espnhd without the STB
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post #107 of 257 Old 03-18-2004, 07:33 AM
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edit: the post I was replying to seems to have been deleted,so the following now makes a little less sense.

Good post. I'd like to know the full story too but frankly when my DVI cable comes in if I like it and if the second cable input (coax from splitter) that I plan to hook up tonight doesn't have it I'll probably just let it go. I have yet to see the line over HD content except during the closing credits of the Sopranos (and even then only when there was only one name on screen) so the whole thing is moot. By the time HD DVD comes out I'll probably be wanting a DVI switcher anyway so HD component is probably never going to be a factor.
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post #108 of 257 Old 03-18-2004, 08:07 AM
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Bremerton, I'll apologize in advance, because I don't want you to think I am trying to single you out or heap mud on you. You are kind of at the center of this issue, so your name is going to come up. No hard feelings! :)

Here's what we need to do folks. There's mostly speculation and guess work that's happened in this thread.

No one, except apparently Bremerton, has been able to have ANYONE from Zenith acknowledge this problem in any fashion whatsoever. I find that rather convenient and interesting... I need to see verification on that very quickly.

Bremerton, I am still waiting for you to furnish me some hard evidence that Zenith has indeed put out a bulletin on this matter, as you say they did.

It's amazing that you are the only one that was supposedly able to get this confirmation from them. I ask you now: Prove it.

You are the only one, apparently, if I am to believe your earlier posts, that was able to get this amazing revelation out of Zenith.

If that's truly the case, you should be able to furnish us easily with the case numbers and bulletin numbers/codes. I don't think you really have it, but we'll find out.

I await the disclosure.



I spoke with LG themselves yesterday, and they too, had absolutely nothing on this issue. They actually called me, if you can imagine that.

Now, how much further do we need to go up the food chain, huh?

Should I call the President of LG in Korea and ask him next?

Surely ALL of these insiders can't be wrong, or idiots, as Bremerton has accused them of being in earlier posts. It's just losing ground every day.

Let's boil it down to FACTS, and nothing else:


1.) FACT:

It's ASSUMED that this is the same problem as the Sony XBR910 had.

That is not ESTABLISHED FACT. That's playing connect the dots and moving forward under an assumption.

It does look like it on the surface of the issue, but we don't know that for sure.


2.) FACT:

This issue ONLY shows up under very tight criteria: 1080i HD, Component video input off of a cable box. Nothing else. We've all gone up and down, debugging this thing, and this is the only way it shows up.

That's an extremely narrow field to be working with here, don't you think?

OPINION: I would think that if the TV itself has a problem, you'd see it under broader criteria than just this. Maybe not...

I am using top of the line Monster component cables, so maybe the problem is less pronounced for me than some of you. Doesn't matter. The problem exists. We know that much. <shrugs>


3.) OPINION:

Now, maybe I'm wrong here, but a cable box is a cable box is a cable box. I don't care if it's Pioneer, Motorola, or what. There just isn't going to be any major differences in how they operate, so it's my OPINION that cable box make is irrelevant. Maybe not.

My OPINION says this: Both the TV and cable box are doing what they are supposed to do. They are both following their designs perfectly.

The TV already has the built in decoder, and obviously, the cable box does. So, you have an overlap of sorts. This could be where the "conflict" is at 1080i. Both things trying to do the job at the same time. </OPINION>


4.) FACT:

No one, except Bremerton apparently, has been able to have anyone from Zenith give the slightest acknowledgement of this issue. This includes dealerships and technicians. NO ONE!

I've called up and down the food chain as has my authorized Zenith dealership/service center. Same goes for the rest of you, based on what I read here.

Heh, Zenith is even aware of these forums and this thread!

So, how much more specifically on the ball do they need to be before they shake off this "idiot" label that Bremerton has been throwing around?

Now, Bremerton can go ahead and excuse them off as idiots, like he did in an earlier post, but how many idiots are we going to be talking about when I go all the way up to LG themselves like I did yesterday?

It's just not holding water very well at this point. At all. There's some holes here in this plot that need to be filled.

Bremerton, frankly put: You need to start backing up the things you have been saying. And you need to do it soon. I need you to do it so I know exactly where I stand and can back myself up with Zenith, because this brick wall routine I am getting with them is going nowhere.

This will be done when you prove to us that Zenith has put out these bulletins as you say they did. I don't think you can do it, but please prove me wrong.

Codes, numbers, links, names. All of it. Please.


Bottom line: FACT:

We do not know for absolute certainty that this is a problem with the TV. There just has not been enough of a compelling body of evidence to go on yet.

Yes, Bremerton that's a fact.

You are assuming it's the XBR910 problem and acting accordingly. Maybe you'll hit it right, if you're lucky.

It's as fair a guess as anything else, and it won't surprise me if that ultimately does get established as fact. But, we aren't there yet. And Zenith isn't there yet, obviously.

I'll be watching this thread come the end of April and see if you come back and tell us all is perfect.

So, if we're going to continue on with this subject, let's all of us be very clear about FACT vs. opinion and speculation.

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post #109 of 257 Old 03-18-2004, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cinemagotham
edit: the post I was replying to seems to have been deleted,so the following now makes a little less sense.

Good post. I'd like to know the full story too but frankly when my DVI cable comes in if I like it and if the second cable input (coax from splitter) that I plan to hook up tonight doesn't have it I'll probably just let it go. I have yet to see the line over HD content except during the closing credits of the Sopranos (and even then only when there was only one name on screen) so the whole thing is moot. By the time HD DVD comes out I'll probably be wanting a DVI switcher anyway so HD component is probably never going to be a factor.
I was editing the post. Now you're below it with this quote so it makes sense again.

I do want to know what the truth is for this reason: I am going to use DVI for the forthcoming DVB318 player from Zenith.

So that means my cable will be staying on components. Something has to, and I choose cable for this vs. the DVD's.

So...we need to get this boiled down to facts.

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post #110 of 257 Old 03-18-2004, 09:36 AM
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Great post, Q!

While I don't understand what's causing this problem, and feel less confident in dismissing the fact that the problem is occuring with different cable boxes, I whole heartedly agree that it's time to fish or cut bait when it comes to accusation and opinion. I too have had several conversations with Zenith/LG. No one there has recognized our problem. If Bremerton, or anyone else!, knows otherwise, it would be most helpful if they could corroborate this with some hard facts (as I've asked several times!).

I have no problem (and my guess is that Q would agree) with people stating their opinions. But problems can arise when one positions one's opinions as facts.

I don't know what is causing the problem on our TVs. I do find it highly coincidental that our problem is almost exactly the same as that on the Sonys, right down to its only occuring at 1080i. Unfortunately, the Sonys don't have a QAM which makes it harder to cross test. I also don't know if they have an issue with component vs. DVI. But as Q correctly points out the coincidence doesn't prove anything.

So to move forward, can anyone out there who believes that Zenith/LG has issued a bulletin about this white bar problem provide us with a Bulletin number?

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post #111 of 257 Old 03-18-2004, 11:21 AM
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Thanks!

It's fun to match opinions, and I think we've all helped each other cover ground, but we really need to boil this thing down.

I am speaking as much about myself as anyone else: Let's take a lot more care when discussing fact vs. accusation vs. opinion/speculation.

We're all on the same side here, and we all want to know what the heck this thing is.

Quote:
So to move forward, can anyone out there who believes that Zenith/LG has issued a bulletin about this white bar problem provide us with a Bulletin number?
That's all that is left to say, really. Waiting...

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post #112 of 257 Old 03-20-2004, 06:21 AM
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48 hours later...still waiting. I don't think I am going to see what I want, either.

;)

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post #113 of 257 Old 03-20-2004, 07:11 AM
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I think Bremerton was a Sony Corporation of America Marketing rep...............:)


'I kid, I kid..........'
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post #114 of 257 Old 03-20-2004, 07:50 AM
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ROFL! :)

Well, if he really got an official bulletin from Zenith, unlike everyone else here who tried...I think it would be rather simple for him to furnish us with that bulletin code so we can go to Zenith and have something substantial to stand on.

Considering the lengths we've gone to, and none of us could turn up squat...I highly doubt that he really got anything from them

Hopefully, he'll prove me wrong. I doubt it.

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post #115 of 257 Old 03-20-2004, 02:42 PM
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Dude whats your problem man. I gave all the info I have already about this. I really wasnt gonna respond to your disrespectful comments but since you imply to go on and on about this I am responding!

I was really persistent when I called them, They gave me a phone number of the tech in my area, I called the technition here in West Virginia, He was told by the Zenith Plant Technition.

I dont have no bulliten! I was never given the Bulliten, However my Tech has if you would of read my earlier posts!!!!

My Tv will be fitted with the new Upgraded Small board
in the beginning of April, Again I have already mentioned this, I will let everyone know how it went then!

:(
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post #116 of 257 Old 03-20-2004, 03:03 PM
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It's ok man. Sorry that I came across that way, but we're all really kind of frustrated with the brick wall we all seem to keep hitting.

I did re-read your posts and I am sorry about any misunderstanding.

You certainly have been very helpful in the past. I am still enjoying my TV with your recommended settings.

I wrote that earlier stuff after spending an hour on the phone with various Zenith personell and get absolutely nowhere.

For some reason, I had gotten the idea in one of your earlier posts that Zenith had told you that they knew there was a problem. Guess not.

Hope there's no hard feelings. :)

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post #117 of 257 Old 03-27-2004, 06:28 AM
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Any new word from anyone on this?

It's been dead silent on my end. I have my people with feelers out, and should something come down the pike, we'll move on it.

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post #118 of 257 Old 03-27-2004, 08:38 PM
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Q and others:

I had nearly decided to buy this model after seeing it first-hand at CC and BB. Amazing picture compared to all the others, even knowing that it's impossible to evaluate a picture properly in a large retail store. (Who knows what signals are going in, HD vs. analog, and taking signal degradation over multiple units into account, etc.)

Then I read some particularly hairy stories about the unit (though some of these may have been the V36 model) and balked. Some said it wouldn't accept progressive scan input (or else it created a decidedly horrible picture), some said the units overheated, speakers and/or tube hummed like mad, etc. Some even said they were trying their third (??!!) unit because of blatant quality issues. I saw one display model somewhere that had entirely (entirely!) lost the red portion of the color spectrum, and the sales person attributed it to having been on too long. If it won't last on the sales floor for a year, is it even going to last three to four years in the average American viewer's home?

After reading a lot of reviews of a lot of units, it seems that returning and trying a different unit, trying a new model/brand, or having to deal with service issues in the first three months is de rigeur to finding/getting a properly functioning set (though Toshiba seems to have generated the fewest complaints/return issues). Personally, I find this appalling. We wouldn't accept this sort of failure rate in an airline, would we? Besides which, I'm in an urban area and don't have a car/truck/semi to do the hauling back and forth, let alone the cash to keep paying for delivery and pick-up.

Then I came to AVS and another home theater forum and read a lot of really great things about the C32V37, until this thread with the horizontal bar started such a ruckus. Basically, I'm wondering if anyone else read the negative reviews posted elsewhere on the web before making a purchasing decision. I had pretty much bagged the Zenith in favor of a more reliable Toshiba, either the 30HF83 or the 32HF73, depending on what decision I make about widescreen vs standard. (I can't seem to find the upgraded 32HFX73 with the better audio anywhere locally.)

Based on all your experiences with this set and probably a lot of others, would any of you buy it again? Should I give it another look? And how much attention should I really pay to all the posts/reviews I've read? It just seemed to me that while there is very little out there about the Toshibas I'm considering, there was a whole passel of posts about Zenith, both good and bad. But the bad were SO bad that it seemed not worth the risk/trouble.

Thanks for any input and apologies for the ramble!
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post #119 of 257 Old 03-28-2004, 04:02 AM
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I've had the TV for about a month and the only problem I've encountered is the white line, which doesn't bother me at all. In fact, with DVI the line goes away entirely (although it seems that DVI won't give me the aspect ratio options that I want; I posted about that as well).

This is my first unit, no returns.
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post #120 of 257 Old 03-28-2004, 09:30 AM
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Ditto with cinemagotham.

The only time I even see that faint bar is component output with the cable box. No other conditons. And it has to be REALLY dark for a REALLY long time. Example: End credits on movies.

I have my name down with Zenith themselves, with a case number. And I also am down with my local servicer. Beyond this small issue, the TV is flawless perfection and I have no regrets buying it whatsoever.

I have to give Zenith the customer service credit as well. Even though they didn't know what I was talking about, that's not their fault. Here's why: The v37 is the new one that was just put out this past February. The v36 was the one with the horror stories.

I am certain if enough complaints come in, Zenith will take action. The TV is still in early circulation. My dealer tells me he can't keep them in stock fast enough. They're selling like hotcakes.

LG Electronics themselves have even called ME on several occasions, out of the blue, to check up on me and they have promised me that, at first glance of any official confirmation of this problem, they will see to it.

I really can't ask for much more. :)

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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