Incredible new Sanyo 32" Flat Screen HDTV - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes they will do anamorphic display. The widescreen , by its nature , is an anamorphic display that will show anamorphic dvd's correctly. The 4:3 set also has image format modes that allow you to show anamorphic sources correctly in a letterbox window. So if you set your dvd player to a 16:9 tv, then set the tv to letterbox mode, you'll have a correct picture using more lines of resolution.

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Old 05-11-2004, 07:40 PM
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Have had my set about 2 weeks now and pretty satisified. Some commments:

There is a "service" button next to the inputs. Anybody pushed it yet??

The analog audio out is not controlled by the remote...ie., will not mute when connected to an a/v receiver.

Likewise aux audio (analog) out of pany scht900 is not mutable by pany remote.

Funny but PBS analog now much softer than rest of analog channels.

There is some barrel distortion, side of picts are slightly concave. No way to adjust obvious.

Progressive dvd is great, can swith in and out of p and input will resynch.

Using a RS yagi in the attic and getting HD channels OTA from 28 miles west. Open county tho.... Thinking of going to a bowtie to get NBC HD from 55 miles NE.

Still pleased with set. Seems like quite a buy.

:)
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Old 05-11-2004, 08:09 PM
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oran_dunn

I'll give you a list of stores in my area, you can choose as many as you would like to check. They are in order from closest to furthest from my house.
Thanks in advance
1. #1671
2. #2847
3. #1367
4. #3267
5. #1965
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Old 05-11-2004, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, I'll check and get back with you tomorrow, probably not before 6 though.

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Old 05-11-2004, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by planetside
I'm also guessing this TV does NOT do 3:2 pulldown of any sort?
Danny
All TV's do 3:2 pulldown when viewing a film source on video or DVD. They have to. It's confusing... I'll try not to confuse myself... :rolleyes: Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you want is reverse 3:2 pulldown. I'll cut out all the crap and just say that reverse 3:2 pulldown is a method used to correct the artifacts of deinterlaced video. There are other methods out there.

Anyway, that's not something I would be overly worried about, most decent DVD players do a better job of deinterlacing and correcting artifact than your TV will.
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Old 05-11-2004, 09:14 PM
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Talis, that's what I meant. I guess I'll have to wait till I get my HTPC all set up before I can really see the benefits of reverse 3:2 pulldown. I'm not quite there yet with the HTPC -- I'm still collecting the hardware that I'll need (need a bigger HD, and awaiting the TV tuner from Newegg), then I need to finalize what OS I'll be running (probably WinXP since Linux seems to always elude me).

Danny
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Old 05-12-2004, 02:41 AM
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Okay, I took this bad boy home and for what it's worth, it barely fits in the back of the late model Integra (hatchback up, of course). Whew!

So far, so good. I did run into a small problem with the Xbox. It appears to display faint vertical bars of a green hue in a sort of "striped" pattern. Thinking it was the TV, we hooked up a DVD into the same component inputs (I'm using an Xbox with the HiDefinition AV Pack) and the problem disappeared while watching the same DVD on the same scene. All things were equal, including the component cable used. So, I'm not sure what is causing the Xbox to manifest this through its DVD playback function. I'm pretty certain I don't see this anomaly when playing games. I'm glad, though, it wasn't the TV.

I grabbed an atennae from storage (a Jensen TV620 antennae) and plugged it into the digital cable input. I did a channel scan and voila!, I had digital HD channels coming in. A couple channels are weak (and tend to pixelize), but in all, a good showing of the OTA HD tuner. I'll probably opt for a better antennae but I'll have to do some research on that.

For those with an Xbox, make sure to tap the PIX SHAPE button on the TV remote after setting the Xbox to Widescreen mode in the Video options. Being the impatient fellow that I am, I didn't bother to go through the manual and ended up scratching my head for 15 minutes wondering why the image was squished into the center as if it were a 4:3 display ;) I don't have any 720p games, but so far everything has been showing up beautifully on this TV.

One small irritation, however, is the LACK of a sound volume scale on this TV. It simply shows a left/right arrow, with no indication of loudness whatsoever. Not exactly the hardest thing to display, but Sanyo seemingly dropped the ball on this small convenience.

I guess I'll post more as I continue to experiment. I hope to also have some kind of resolution to the green bar battern when playing DVD's through the Xbox. Again, I don't think this problem appears while playing games. Even the Gamecube displays great, but again, I'll continue with the experimentation.

Danny
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Old 05-12-2004, 03:07 AM
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is anyone else noticing the video delays? if the receiver doesn't support a 'lip sync' function, what can be done to correct this?
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Danny, I don't think I've seen a sanyo that has a volume display for at least 3 years or so. A while back, they did have a line with a bar indicating volume, but all of their new ones don't. Kinda stupid. What model did you get? I assume the widescreen since you said "squished into the center as if it were a 4:3 display".

Edvard_Grieg,
Is the problem you notice only on ota HD channels, or is it on everything the set displays?

Ryan

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Old 05-12-2004, 06:01 AM
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ryan,

i don't have a unit [yet], but I thought I remembered someone mentioning the issue earlier in the thread which is what prompted the question.
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Old 05-12-2004, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Edvard_Grieg
ryan,

i don't have a unit [yet], but I thought I remembered someone mentioning the issue earlier in the thread which is what prompted the question.
I was the original one who posted with a sync problem. Since that first night, I have not had one problem with it. I watched Snatch in progressive, and it worked flawlessly. I am still tinkering with the color setup, as well as looking for alternatives for an antenna. I NEED to be able to get FOX for football this fall. Apparently FOX is rolling out upgrades to the local affiliates, so i will hurry up and be patient.

The lack of volume bar is an annoyance I was going to bring up when/if I ever post my full review.
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Old 05-12-2004, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Talisin12
All TV's do 3:2 pulldown when viewing a film source on video or DVD. They have to. It's confusing... I'll try not to confuse myself... :rolleyes: Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you want is reverse 3:2 pulldown. I'll cut out all the crap and just say that reverse 3:2 pulldown is a method used to correct the artifacts of deinterlaced video. There are other methods out there.

Anyway, that's not something I would be overly worried about, most decent DVD players do a better job of deinterlacing and correcting artifact than your TV will.
Not quite. In a nutshell, 3:2 pulldown, which is a slang term for a process called telecine, is a video conversion process that allows film based material to be viewed on a television. It's necessary because film material is shot at 24 frames/sec (each frame is repeated at the theater to produce 48fps to prevent flicker) and tv's display at 60 fps. We still have 12 frames need for every second after doubling the framerate, so a process of repeating an additional frame a 3rd time every 5th step is used. This is 3:2 pulldown. Film based material is filmed progressive (full frames that are not interlaced) so this 3:2 pulldown process can be reversed, hence the term reverse 3:2 pulldown. This is the only true form of progressive scan, since the original material has a 3:2 signature it can be returned to a true progressive picture. Video based material that was filmed specifically for television is shot at 30 fps so all that is need is a simple doubling of the framerate. For this reason video based material can never be "true" progressive scan video and must use processing and guesswork to fill in the blanks. Since the source material is interlaced from the beginning (filmed that way), the processor has to guess what picture information was in between those black lines. Film material doesn't have this problem and is thus capable of a much better progressive image. These are the basics of progressive scan display. :)
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Old 05-12-2004, 07:56 AM
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I'm gonna try to quickly reply to some things I've read in the past couple of pages here. My apologies for my laziness. :)

To my knowledge there are few manufacturers who offer red-push free sets. Some come close. Mitsubishi is a good example. Their projection sets offer both minimal redpush usually and often have almost dead-on color temperature and greyscale accuracy. The reason the manufacturers don't improve this is because it won't have any effect on their business. Fixing a problem is only an issue for a company if it feels it will produce more sales for them. Since most people really don't care about or even notice things like redpush and geometry errors and overscan they feel no need to imrove in this area. Also, some of it is on the production end. Even for 2 tvs that are the exact same model, they often will not produce the same picture. The most common variation is with geometry and overscan. I've seen two models of the same tv, one with almost perfect picture geometry, and the other one with severe bowing on all sides and a picture slant. It's mostly out of our control unless we can figure out how to use the service menu, which is a place we're not supposed to be or even know about in the first place.

About the inventory system at Wal-Mart. It depends upon what you're talking about. A new system that will allow an associate to locate and ID any item in the store and get it's location has begun to roll out in some stores from what I understand, but most stores have a 10+ year old piece of crap computer system called SMART. We're talking monocromatic green screen little IBM computers here and haldheld units that don't work 50% of the time. It is much easier to just go find something yourself than to attempt to use any of that junk. Even then it doesn't provide the locations of things in stock, just whether or not the item is in stock at all and how many are there.

On the subject of 720p: there is NO tube-based tv on the market right now that can display an actual 720p signal. Upconversion to 1080i is the best we can hope for. I would be genuinely surprised if we EVER saw a tube tv that could natively display 720p. The scanning frequency for 720p is higher and more demanding than 1080i since it's progressive and tube technology cannot get there yet. It would be the equivalent to the scanning frequency a 1440i resolution signal would require.
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Old 05-12-2004, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by planetside
Okay, I think I'll pull the trigger on this and get one tonight. Thanks for the info, Ryan (and Talisin). My local Walmart is kinda funny -- I spoke to one of their associates last week and he told me they had the TV in stock, but it was in the back up on the steel. It wasn't being displayed on the floor yet. Then I called over the weekend and the guys I talked to were adamant that they didn't have it (even telling me they went back to look). I called today, and the guy I spoke to last week says they're still in the back, up on the steel. So let's hope when I go pick it up tonight, they'll actually be able to find it back there!

Danny
The answer to this is extremely simple: the people you talked to were simply too lazy to get the pallet down from the top steel. Most stores have a walker-stacker (picture a forklift that is handpushed like a garden tiller), which makes the job pretty simple. The HD Sanyo is awfully hard to miss, what with it's huge blue box and full color picture on the front and covers the entire side. If it's back there you can buy it and they are obligated to get it down for you. I had the same problem with one of my guys. We could have sold our box stock of this new tv the second day it was here but he told both the customer and later on that day me that he "couldn't find it." Our store's backroom is pathetically small for a wal-mart........... you could find a pinhead back there, and what's worse is that it was on the BOTTOM steel in plain sight. I suppose we could have a pinhead look for a pinhead if we wanted to. :D
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Old 05-12-2004, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xcalibur_255

On the subject of 720p: there is NO tube-based tv on the market right now that can display an actual 720p signal. Upconversion to 1080i is the best we can hope for. I would be genuinely surprised if we EVER saw a tube tv that could natively display 720p. The scanning frequency for 720p is higher and more demanding than 1080i since it's progressive and tube technology cannot get there yet. It would be the equivalent to the scanning frequency a 1440i resolution signal would require.
Maybe you can clear this up for me. The concept of 1080i @ 1,920x1,080 pixals and 720p @ 1,280x720 pixals makes perfect sense to me. What I'm wondering, Is that since CRT's, having scan lines instead of pixals, How does it fit a pixilated image into 800 or so lines.
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Old 05-12-2004, 08:46 AM
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Wow. You guys are really making me want this TV. :) I'd been looking for an HDTV for when I move in the late summer/early fall and I think this one might be it. :) Not sure if I'll get the widescreen model since I watch so much anime and TV on DVD, but I just might. I saw the TV on the floor (literally) at a Walmart in West Virginia and it just looks so pretty, even unplugged. ;)

Glad to hear that the synch problem cleared up, too. That was the only thing holding back my lust. :)
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Old 05-12-2004, 11:28 AM
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I hear ya there, it's an awful lot of TV for $747. I'm still torn between the 32" 4:3 and 30" 16:9 also. There's really no reason to get the 30" other than coolness factor. Here's the picture conversion sizes if your interested


4:3 (1.33:1) standard mode [70.6% larger]
Your viewing area is 25.6 in(w) x 19.2 in(h)
Total viewing area is 491.52 sq in.

16:9 (1.78:1) native mode [4.1% larger]
Your viewing area is 26.1 in(w) x 14.7 in(h)
Total viewing area is 383.67 sq in.
This utilizes the full display of the 16:9 TV

As you can see, widescreen and HD formatted signals will be around 4% larger on the 30"

Standard NTSC signals will be 70% larger on the 32"

Since most TV and video games are still in 4:3 format, it just makes sense to get the 32" to me, as long as you don't mind letterbox bars when watching HD. It doesn't matter with DVD's because your going to get them anyway, even on a 16:9 TV.

It's been awhile since I've researched 16:9 TV's, but from what I've previously read, they usually have more significant geometry problems than 4:3. Hence the smaller size cap of 34".
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Old 05-12-2004, 02:30 PM
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On the 32" Sanyo can you avoid the letterbox bars while watching HD by zooming in or changing the aspect ratio?
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Old 05-12-2004, 02:46 PM
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would you get this tv or the zenith for about the same price?
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Old 05-12-2004, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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abrahavt, yes the 32" can zoom, letterbox, etc a 1080i signal

ardbell,
I didn't get a chance to look up the inventorys for those stores today. The next chance I get will be on saturday. Your best bet is to call those stores during the week and talk to the department manager about those tvs.

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Old 05-12-2004, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xcalibur_255
On the subject of 720p: there is NO tube-based tv on the market right now that can display an actual 720p signal. Upconversion to 1080i is the best we can hope for. I would be genuinely surprised if we EVER saw a tube tv that could natively display 720p. The scanning frequency for 720p is higher and more demanding than 1080i since it's progressive and tube technology cannot get there yet. It would be the equivalent to the scanning frequency a 1440i resolution signal would require.
This is not true. Since there are only 1280 "pixels" wide in a 720p signal (and I use the term loosely because a CRT is an analog device in the horizontal direction), it would be less than 1440i equivalent. In fact, the scanning frequency, pixel clock, and effective bandwidth required for 720p and 1080i are roughly the same.

The reason you dont see 720p native is simply that its cheaper to build a set that is optimized for 1 frequency only. You can optimize the beam width and spacing for that one golden frequency, for example. Since 1080i is still the most popular HD format (for now), that seems to be what manufacturers are building towards.
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:39 PM
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Well, I'm absolutely lovin' this TV. Since I'm such a gamer, the Xbox and Gamecube are so far proving VERY nice on my Sanyo HT30744 (30" widescreen). Playing Halo, Ninja Gaiden and Metroid Prime in widescreen just make the experience THAT much more cinematic. My previous set was a Sony KV36HS20 (36" 4:3) and I'm so amazed at how much this Sanyo is compared to what I paid for that Sony 2 years ago ($1600 AFTER my Sony employee discount vs. $804 out the door at Walmart for the Sanyo!).

Some things I'm noticing are the geometry settings are a bit off. My screen tilts downward to the left, and I don't know if there's a way to correct this. There is no option in the TV Menu to adjust geometry, so maybe it's buried in the service menu somewhere.

Of interesting note is the INFO button when you're viewing Digital Cable or Component Source. It'll display the source resolution, which is a nice touch. With my Gamecube on Component3, Metroid Prime indicates 720*480 (60P), with the 60P indicating progressive scan (probably 60Hertz in progressive).

On my Xbox, since I have no upgraded the Dashboard to display in progressive, the INFO button indicates 720*480 (60I), with the 60I indicating interlaced mode. Pop in Halo, however, and the indicator flips to 60P to indicate 480P progressive scan.

Now I switch over to OTA HDTV and Digital channel 39 (KNSD in San Diego) indicates 1920*1080 (60I), indicating 1080i mode. Jumping over to Digital channel 15 (HiDef PBS), I now get 1280*720(60P) ... I'm assuming this is a 720P image now being up converted to 1080i, although the indication is somewhat misleading (if what others are saying is true, it is NOT showing anything in 720P). Wow -- PBS may not be my favorite channel (well, that depends on what's showing), but oh my goodness are the images impressive! I love hitting the FREEZE button and staring at a near-photographic quality image. Incredible!

Some other cool things are the PAP (Picture and Picture) mode. It's pretty neat to have one side showing an HDTV or any other broadcast source, while playing Xbox on the other side. Okay, so it's not entirely practical, but it's cool nonetheless! The left-side image pipes the sound, while the right-side image is in silent mode. You can easily swap the images with the press of the SWAP button.

The next test is to get my DVI to HDMI cable and finally get my HTPC hooked up to this bad boy. I am very happy so far with the performance of this TV, and even with its somewhat limited picture adjustment menu, it's still a GREAT deal at $747 plus tax.

Danny

PS. If anyone has a recommendation for a good, affordably priced antennae, please let me know. This Jensen antennae -- although decent -- is not able to grab a couple HD channels (signal is too weak apparently).
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:44 PM
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It doesn't come with an antenna does it? :-/
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Old 05-12-2004, 06:03 PM
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Nope, I had to grab an old one from the garage. I'm sure it's not a very sophisticated one, but it was grabbin' HD signals much to my surprise. I'll probably do some research on a better, more HD suited antennae.

Danny
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Old 05-12-2004, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Since the HD signal is broadcast on an analog carrier wave, any antenna that is designed for analog stations will work for HD. If an antenna can receive the analog station perfectly, if the digital were broadcast on that frequency, it would also come in perfectly. The only difference is when the signal reaches the destination and the signal has to be decoded. I personally use a Silver Sensor and it works really well. Now that summer is on us, it isn't as good becuase of all the leaves on the trees, but it is still good (especially since i have huge trees by my house and am 20 or so miles from the stations).

Ryan

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Old 05-12-2004, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by planetside


Some things I'm noticing are the geometry settings are a bit off. My screen tilts downward to the left, and I don't know if there's a way to correct this. There is no option in the TV Menu to adjust geometry, so maybe it's buried in the service menu somewhere.
If you have your picture or contrast or whatever the setting is that adjusts white levels too high it can cause geometry problems due to insufficient power input (or so avia says) I was able to correct some pretty severe geometry distortion by reducing the picture setting on my JVC.

I've spent some time researching indoor antenna's and it seems the Silver Sensor is the hands down favorite in this forum. Someone else may have mentioned it but you can go to this address http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx and it will provide you with information on what kind of antenna you need for your particular situation.

I've also read good things about the Terk Bowtie. It's pretty big and ugly though. Just buy from a place with a good return policy so you can return whatever you get if it isn't up to par.
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Old 05-12-2004, 08:49 PM
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I believe the Silver Sensor, and indeed most antennas sold for HD, are actually only designed for broadcasts in the UHF band. Some foolish TV stations, like CBS' Chicago affiliate, broadcast their HD signal on a low VHF channel (ch 3). If you have this situation, you really still need a combo VHF/UHF antenna.
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Old 05-13-2004, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Talisin12
Maybe you can clear this up for me. The concept of 1080i @ 1,920x1,080 pixals and 720p @ 1,280x720 pixals makes perfect sense to me. What I'm wondering, Is that since CRT's, having scan lines instead of pixals, How does it fit a pixilated image into 800 or so lines.
I'm not 100% sure what you're asking here. I certainly haven't learned everything myself and don't want to come across as a "know it all". 1080 is referring to vertical resolution while the 800 refers to horizontal resolution and is dependant upon the set. I believe the pixel count is referencing the DENSITY of pixels on each line of horizontal resolution. The visible resolution is dependant upon the the density of the image itself in the video signal and the design of the tv's tube and it's aperture grill. Some tvs may not be showing the full resolution or pixels of the source image. Naturally, since some tv sets produce a better image than others. I don't know if I can do better than that for an explanation. I don't know if I have a proper grasp of it myself yet. What I can say is that many people mistake a superior set with MORE pixel density and that can display MORE resolution as an inferior image. The image often appears softer due to the additional image information (a.k.a. the Sony XBR910), while tvs with lesser tube designs that offer less resolution or pixel count will make the image APPEAR sharper because detail is missing. Adding more pixels to a diagonal line makes that line appear smoother and less stairstepped. Ironically, it is LESS resolution that people often mistakenly seek since it gives the mistaken inpression of greater sharpness.
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Old 05-13-2004, 08:08 AM
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That's interesting... I wonder how many average joe's out there really know how complicated this stuff is.
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Old 05-13-2004, 08:41 AM
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Does anybody know if these TVs are available at Wal-Mart in Canada?

On a slightly off-topic note... is there OTA HD in Canada? d

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