Samsung TXP3071WH - AVS Forum
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Old 06-06-2004, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I recently purchased the Samsung TXP3071WH from Best Buy.

Product literature claims that the TV is compliant with Digital Cable Plug and Play but my experience seems to indicate otherwise. Keeping in mind that cable companies are not required to carry PSIP data until July 1, 2004, I expected to be able to tune clear (unencrypted) HD and SD channels but not have any PSIP data. Instead the TV did not find any digital channels during the auto-scan nor does it find them when manual tuning.

I have e-mailed Samsung technical support via their website asking if the TV is expecting PSIP to be present in order to properly tune a QAM channel. If so, I'll just have to wait until July 1st to tune HD/SD over cable. If not, then there must be something else wrong.

Does anyone else have a Samsung with QAM tuner? What have you experiences been trying to receive QAM programs?
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Old 06-08-2004, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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After some detailed testing, this TV, with its current software, will never acquire DTV signals via QAM.

I have spoken to Samsung technical support and they are relaying my findings to the engineers.

The TXP-3071WH seems to be looking for a particular field in PSIP data that is only present in off-air signals and not cable signals as per ATSC A/65B. (The TV is looking for the service_location_descriptor, see page 142 for details.)

Samsung may be able to provide a software update, but I may just return the set.

I highly recommend you dot purchase this TV if you plan to receive HD over digital cable without a set-top box.
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Old 06-08-2004, 11:34 AM
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I dont know, because my Samsung set also has the QAM tuner, but I dont subscribe to digital cable and as far as I can tell I dont think at least Comcast down here in Florida are sending the Digital channels unencrypted at all. Most cable companies won't because they want you to pay to upgrade to digital cable and even more for HD. The CableCARD is probably gonna be the only solution if you dont want to use a box with digital cable and most sets don't have that slot yet and the cable company is still gonna charge a rental fee on those cards. I just wish cable companies will learn that some people would rather to buy cable boxes instead of being forced to rent, even though the FCC mandates that consumers should be able to own their own equipment.
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Old 06-08-2004, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by bradbomb
I dont know, because my Samsung set also has the QAM tuner, but I dont subscribe to digital cable and as far as I can tell I dont think at least Comcast down here in Florida are sending the Digital channels unencrypted at all. Most cable companies won't because they want you to pay to upgrade to digital cable and even more for HD. The CableCARD is probably gonna be the only solution if you dont want to use a box with digital cable and most sets don't have that slot yet and the cable company is still gonna charge a rental fee on those cards. I just wish cable companies will learn that some people would rather to buy cable boxes instead of being forced to rent, even though the FCC mandates that consumers should be able to own their own equipment.

Digital broadcast channels are part of Basic Cable and must be, by law, unencrypted.

Since you are unable to receive the channels you are experiencing the same problem I have uncovered.

I recommend you call 1-800-SAMSUNG and reference the issue of being able to tune QAM channels without a service_location_descriptor. Request that they come out and update the software in your TV.
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Old 06-09-2004, 06:25 AM
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I have the Samsung txp2670wh (w/ QAM tuner) and have Comcast cable in the Chicago area. I can tune in WGN (117-1 and 117-2) however I don't get any of the other QAM DTV stations.
I do get program information on WGN, though, so would it be safe to say they do have PSIP on WGN, and maybe have not added it to the others?
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Old 06-09-2004, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by dlh70
I have the Samsung txp2670wh (w/ QAM tuner) and have Comcast cable in the Chicago area. I can tune in WGN (117-1 and 117-2) however I don't get any of the other QAM DTV stations.
I do get program information on WGN, though, so would it be safe to say they do have PSIP on WGN, and maybe have not added it to the others?

If the cable headend is "passing" the broadcaster the TV will acquire the signal. In almost all cases the signal will not be passed since cable companies will take 2 DTV stations and multiplex them into one 6MHz 256-QAM channel. Once that is done, the TV, with the current software, will not be able to tune anything on QAM.

I will be following up with Samsung again today.
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Old 06-09-2004, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dbrouda
Digital broadcast channels are part of Basic Cable and must be, by law, unencrypted.

Since you are unable to receive the channels you are experiencing the same problem I have uncovered.

I recommend you call 1-800-SAMSUNG and reference the issue of being able to tune QAM channels without a service_location_descriptor. Request that they come out and update the software in your TV.

But they aren't a part of basic cable because basic cable is only analog. There is still after that extended basic, and then after that Digital Classic Cable. I've never read anywhere that Cable companies by law need to send digital broadcast channels. The law was that OTA needs to be switched over to Digital Broadcast by 2006. Nowhere does it mandate the same thing for cable companies and cable networks. Also, they can encrypt their signal because they don't want people taking their digital signal when they are still only paying for analog cable.
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Old 06-09-2004, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by bradbomb
But they aren't a part of basic cable because basic cable is only analog. There is still after that extended basic, and then after that Digital Classic Cable. I've never read anywhere that Cable companies by law need to send digital broadcast channels. The law was that OTA needs to be switched over to Digital Broadcast by 2006. Nowhere does it mandate the same thing for cable companies and cable networks. Also, they can encrypt their signal because they don't want people taking their digital signal when they are still only paying for analog cable.

There is an FCC mandate that off-air digital be carried as part of basic cable; thus basic cable is analog and digital.
<<a href="http://ftp.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Orders/2001/fcc01022.pdf" target="_blank">http://ftp.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Ord...1/fcc01022.pdf>
"We believe that in the context of the new digital carriage requirements, it is consistent with the statutory language to require that a broadcaster's digital signal must be available on a basic tier such that all broadcast
signals are available to all cable subscribers at the lowest priced tier of service, as Congress envisioned."

If your MSO is encrypting off-air channels they would need to provide every basic subscriber with a free set-top.

All off-air digital is part of basic cable.
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Old 06-09-2004, 02:41 PM
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But if you read that, that is talking about after the Digital transition in 2006. It says earlier in the document that if a station has ananalog and digital signal, it is at the discretion of the cable company during the transition up until the the point of all digital for OTA broadcast to carry either one. So they do not have to carry both analog and digital on their basic tier, just one for the time being. Meaning they can make the digital counterparts for the off-air stations encrypted because they are still offering their analog counterparts in basic. Now when 2006 comes around, the situation will change, but as you can see its 2004, so thats 2 years away and there are still things that have to be met so that the analog broadcast of OTA stations gets shut down in 2006, the biggest thing being an 80% adoption rate of HDTV across the US by consumers and broadcasters.
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Old 06-09-2004, 02:48 PM
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Sorry, also quotes from the end of the document
Quote:
D. Tier Placement
132. As discussed above, Section 623(b)(7)(A) of the Act requires that the basic tier on a rate regulated system
include all signals carried to fulfill the must carry requirements of Sections 614 and 615 and any signal of any television
broadcast station that is provided by the cable operator to any subscriber. . .384 We believe that it would facilitate the
digital transition to permit cable operators that are carrying a broadcast station's analog signal on the basic tier to carry that
broadcast station's digital signal on a digital tier pursuant to retransmission consent. We seek comment on permitting such
carriage and whether it would encourage more cable operators to voluntarily carry a broadcaster's digital signal. We believe
that such an approach, which is necessarily limited to the duration of the transition in a given market, is consistent with the
flexibility given the Commission by Section 614(b)(4)(B) to prescribe rules for the transition. We seek comment on thisinterpretation. We also seek comment on limiting this approach to those situations in which the digital programming is a
simulcast of the analog programming available on the basic tier. We reiterate that, as discussed above, if a cable operator is
carrying only the broadcaster's digital signal, and not the analog signal, the digital signal must be available to subscribers on
a basic tier to which subscription is required for access to any other tier.

Also, reading Appendix D of this document says that the conclusion of whatever this document is the record of for 2001, is that we need to further look into all these matters before making more rulings on the transition
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Old 06-09-2004, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I believe the Memo of Understanding between CEA, NCTA, and NAB clarifies this issue...
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Old 09-08-2004, 01:03 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by dbrouda
I recently purchased the Samsung TXP3071WH from Best Buy.

Product literature claims that the TV is compliant with Digital Cable Plug and Play but my experience seems to indicate otherwise. Keeping in mind that cable companies are not required to carry PSIP data until July 1, 2004, I expected to be able to tune clear (unencrypted) HD and SD channels but not have any PSIP data. Instead the TV did not find any digital channels during the auto-scan nor does it find them when manual tuning.

I have e-mailed Samsung technical support via their website asking if the TV is expecting PSIP to be present in order to properly tune a QAM channel. If so, I'll just have to wait until July 1st to tune HD/SD over cable. If not, then there must be something else wrong.

Does anyone else have a Samsung with QAM tuner? What have you experiences been trying to receive QAM programs?

Did you ever hear anything further from Samsung on whether this tv can receive QAM channels over cable?
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Old 09-08-2004, 07:51 AM
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I bought this tv about a week ago and have had the same problems of not being able to pick up any digital cable channels, but I was also wondering if anyone else ran into the probem of not being able to acess the DNie in the setup menu. Has anyone else run into this problem?
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Old 09-08-2004, 08:42 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by stein1010
I bought this tv about a week ago and have had the same problems of not being able to pick up any digital cable channels, but I was also wondering if anyone else ran into the probem of not being able to acess the DNie in the setup menu. Has anyone else run into this problem?

DNie feature is exclusive to the TX-P3076WH model only. In the service menu, there's an option, but it is unavailable to change. This TV will only pick up non-encrypted digital cable signals. Unfortunately, only some Comcast customers have had success.
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Old 09-08-2004, 09:18 AM
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but the old thing about that is in the manual that is listed for the 2670wh, 2675wh, 3071wh, and 3075wh it is listed as a special feature and has directions on how to turn it on
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Old 09-08-2004, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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The official word from Samsung is that this TV (and all similar models) requires a particular message in the QAM signal that is not typically transmitted by Cable Companies. The standard requires that they transmit a different message.

Samsung is not compliant to the standard even through their literature says they are.

The fix would be a software update but I did not receive any response from Samsung indicating if their would either provide a software update or if they were going to remove the text from their literature claiming their were compliant with the standard.

This is false advertising, but I don't think Samsung is selling enough of this to care.
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Old 09-09-2004, 05:06 PM
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I spoke with Samsung support today regarding this QAM issue.
After listening to the first guy tell me that I needed a cable box as this tv only works with an antenna, I got through to another guy in level 2 support, said pretty much the same thing. I asked why it is advertised as having a QAM in the clear decoder if it doesn't work.
I have to call another guy tomorrow.

This tv is very good apart from this QAM error aswell as a few 8VSB errors that hang the software. Picture quality is good.

dbrouda, so should the cable companies be transimitting this new message in the QAM signal now that it is after july'04?

stein1010, the manual covers all thise 4 tv sets. Even though I have the 3071, the BBE sound option is available and theres a graphic on the silver tv case.

I can change to the TXP3075WH from Crutchfield if theres a chance the QAM will work?
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Old 09-09-2004, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by JamesMH
I spoke with Samsung support today regarding this QAM issue.

dbrouda, so should the cable companies be transimitting this new message in the QAM signal now that it is after july'04?

I can change to the TXP3075WH from Crutchfield if theres a chance the QAM will work?

Cable companies are transmitting the message as of July 1. For reference it is called a CVCT (Cable Virtual Channel Table). There is an equivalent table for off air, the TVCT (Terrestrial Virtual Channel Table). I believe there is only a 1 bit (or byte) difference between the two.

For whatever reason Samsung is only looking for the TVCT even if they are tuning QAM.

Unless they fixed this in later software it will be an issue with the TXP3075WH too.
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Old 09-09-2004, 06:36 PM
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Is there a way to look at the television's current firmware version?

How do you know that this tv is looking for the TVCT and not the CVCT when the input is selected as cable?

Have you tried contacting Samsung again lately over this issue?
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Old 09-09-2004, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by JamesMH
Is there a way to look at the television's current firmware version?

How do you know that this tv is looking for the TVCT and not the CVCT when the input is selected as cable?

Have you tried contacting Samsung again lately over this issue?

There is a way to get the firmware version thgouh diagnostics but I forget how to get into diagnostics (various remote button pushes). The method was posted in another forum, I think.

I work in the cable industry and bought some equipment home and tested various things with the TV, thus I know it only works with a TVCT. Additionally, the developer from Samsung confirmed this to me via e-mail.

My last attempt to contact Samsung was directly to their development team about 2 months ago.
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Old 09-10-2004, 12:47 AM
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Thats good that you and Samsung know what the problem, but its not good that its not fixed in the new productions.

Did you get any hint or any indication that it might be fixed via a software update? Theres a service port on the back of the set, maybe its just a regular serial port.

I know Samsung released user uploadable firmware for their set top boxes a while back. Did they mention they might do this?

If you can give me any direct email addresses that'd be great, but no problem if you can't.

I really wanted a tv with Clear QAM and a good 8VSB decoder built in, looks like this might go back to Best Buy.
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Old 09-10-2004, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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JamesMH,

Sorry, I cannot provide the e-mail contacts.

It is possible they did fix it in the newer sets and did not tell me as much, but I doubt it. Frankly, they did not really seem to care; I think I would need to get a hold of someone in US marketting rather then Korean engineering to get the matter some attention but I really don't have time for that.

If would be possible to do a firmware update via the port on the rear of the set, however, I do not know if this is a standard interface (serial or USB) with a non-standard connector or if it requires something more than a cable and a laptop...
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Old 09-10-2004, 12:33 PM
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Spoke with them again today. They said that the set only supports unencrypted QAM channels that are sending the PSIP data.
I asked him about the TVCT and the CVCT data within the PSIP, he didn't know what about it. They said that as far as he knows there is no firmware update coming for this set.
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Old 09-19-2004, 11:28 PM
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Now I'm not big into this type of stuff but since I feel like I've been misled by their advertising for the TX-P3071WH model saying it would receive the signals would we have grounds for a class-action lawsuit?

I hate it when companies release something and then try to back peddle and say well it only supports it this way instead of doing the right thing and fixing it. I want to be able to pick up the channels over the cable line without using the box if I want too. We can't do that and we all were told we would be able too.

Am I wrong in this view?

Thanks!
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Old 09-20-2004, 01:20 AM
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Also, to get into the service menu on the TX-P3071WH hit - Mute, 1, 8, 2, Power.
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Old 09-20-2004, 11:58 AM
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today i spoke to samsung and they now seem aware of this problem and are currently researching it. i was told that this is now a documented problem, that is qam not working with comcast in the maryland area, and that their enigneers are now looking into it and that i should recieve a call back in about 2 weeks. so i guess we will have to wait and see what happens

and i have the txp3071wh
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Old 09-20-2004, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by stein1010
today i spoke to samsung and they now seem aware of this problem and are currently researching it. i was told that this is now a documented problem, that is qam not working with comcast in the maryland area, and that their enigneers are now looking into it and that i should recieve a call back in about 2 weeks. so i guess we will have to wait and see what happens

and i have the txp3071wh

Well, at least that is a step.

Please post any progress.
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Old 09-20-2004, 04:40 PM
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I received a voicemail from a Samsung representative today which I think was a result of Best Buy's executive complaints department contacting Samsung. I'm not sure if they have identifed the probelm and will be getting a fix out, or if they are using the old "you set's broke" excuse.

When I talk to her in person tomorrow I'll give an update.
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Old 09-21-2004, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Bither
I received a voicemail from a Samsung representative today which I think was a result of Best Buy's executive complaints department contacting Samsung. I'm not sure if they have identifed the probelm and will be getting a fix out, or if they are using the old "you set's broke" excuse.

When I talk to her in person tomorrow I'll give an update.

Progress, in what direction, I am not sure.

The TV is improperly using the TVCT for tuning (which is only present on 8VSB channels). They either need to use the CVCT or forgo the PSIP channel map and create their own using MPEG-2 PAT and PMT.

Thanks for the update.
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Old 09-21-2004, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dbrouda
Progress, in what direction, I am not sure.

The TV is improperly using the TVCT for tuning (which is only present on 8VSB channels). They either need to use the CVCT or forgo the PSIP channel map and create their own using MPEG-2 PAT and PMT.

Thanks for the update.


I spoke to a very nice lady today in (who left the voicemail yesterday.) Samsung corporate had been contacted by BestBuy corporate and instructed her to give me a call. She admitted she didn't know the technical details and was acting as a go-between me and them. I expressed my concern that Samsung didn't treat my set as an individual bad unit, and that the probelm is with their entire line of internal QAM tuners she said she'd pass it along. When the technical department thinks it has the problem ready for a fix, they'll contact me. The 64 dollar question is does samsung think switching out components will dix it, or do they understand the true nature of the problem.

I guess I'll find out when I actually talk to the samsung Tech working on my complaint (not the corporate customer care person.)


I'd feel remise if I didn't say how happy I am with Best Buy. The Executive complain person who I was in contact with seems to be on top of things and has been great to deal with. If Samsung is unwilling to fix the problem he wants to be let know so Best Buy can make sure that Samsung does. Ultimately if Samsung won't, he said he'd make sure that Best Buy would allow me to return my set regardless of the normal return policy. You can't ask for better corporate customer service than that.

Regardless of how things turn out from Samsung, I have no reservations of making BestBuy my first choice(if AVS doesn't carry it) for future purchases.
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