Comments on 30HF84 I Just received from Amazon. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 406 Old 09-08-2004, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I was exciting during the past week about this TV. Now after spending several hours with it, I have started missing my Philips 30PW850H that was returned to Sam's club 3 days ago.
Problems:
1. serious geometry problem. I used Avia to try to correct it. The end result? The geometry after calibration is worse than the 30PW850H before calibration.
2. I can somewhat tolerate the geometry problem. The more serious problem is the picture the tube shows. For some reasons, the whole picture looks very grainy and somewhat out of focus. Sometimes I can see the shadows to the right of the characters on the screen. This doesn't just happen to SD program. Even the DVD picture is at best mediocre, and grainy. As comparison, Philips 30PW850H has an excellent DVD viewing picture and pretty good SD program picture quality.(BTW: I actually like the philips a lot, but returned it due to its infamous "jail bars" problem). I have used Avia to tune the brightness, contrast, sharpness..., and I have been switching between 540P and 1080i. All that I have tried didn't help improve the picture quality. I just can't obtain a clear and vivid picture on my 30HF84 like I have seen on the philips one. Xbox gaming is acceptable but the picture is still jaggy and grainy.( I say jaggy because I owned 30PW850H for more than 1.5 months and seldom noticed the jaggy problems in the good-looking games like DOAU).

Of course, I might received a lemon. But I also took a look at 30HF84 at Bestbuy last week and it also has the same serious geometry problem, and the picture is not that good.
I know there are several other guys in this forum who also jumped into amazon's deal. I'd like to hear your input and share the information about how to tune this TV to give better picture. I will keep testing this TV and will report back if I have any new information.
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post #2 of 406 Old 09-08-2004, 07:53 PM
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I haven't seen the 30HF84, but I own the 30HF83 and am extremely happy with it. PQ of HD material is fantastic (I use DVI input from my Sony SAT-HD300). PQ of decent, uncompressed SD material is good. PQ of crappy, compressed SD material is not real good, but this is to be expected.

As for the 30HF84 you saw at Bestbuy, my guess is they probably were feeding it with coax. My local Bestbuy does this. Don't ask me why. Don't go to Bestbuy to look at PQ of direct view sets.

As for the geometry issues, I can only say my 30HF83, out of the box, did not have any significant geometry issues. As a matter of fact, I've had this set for about one year and have not felt the need to make any geometry changes.

Sorry you are dissapointed with the 30HF84. I am seriously considering the 34HF84 (love that narrow footprint! ;)) for my family room and moving the 30 incher to my bedroom.
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post #3 of 406 Old 09-08-2004, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I can accept the fact that SD PQ is not good. But I can't tolerate the fact that even the progressive scan DVD PQ is not good. My previous philips 30PW850H is considered as a low-end HDTV monitor and it still has vibrant color and sharp picture when showing the 480P signal.
Too bad I am just aware that amazon won't take the return once the TV is delivere. My AMEX card only has return protection up to $300. It seems I am stuck here and the only resort is calling Toshiba service center.
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post #4 of 406 Old 09-08-2004, 08:19 PM
 
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Thats too bad:(

I was really looking foward to getting the toshiba over the panny, now i may get the panny instead.I had a lot of hope for that toshiba model too.
I hope the 34" is'nt the same, but it's likely it will be:(
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post #5 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 04:12 AM
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I got my 30HF84 setup last night as well. Only had an hour to play with it, but DirecTivo via svideo doesn't look as good as it did on my 4:3. The theaterwide modes are nice, but it still distorts the pictures.

My DVD's look pretty bad as well, and I still get black bars on the top/bottom on a 16:9 HDTV :(

Oh well, I have to save up for a HD directv box now.
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post #6 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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jlachowin, could you do me a favor to take a look at the texts on the screen? esp. those texts in grey. I noticed that those grey texts have obvious shadows to the right of them. When I change the picture to "movie", the shadows are less obvious but still there. According to Avia, it might be an indication of a problem that beam or optics are out of focus. And, have you tried to use any calibration disc to see if the geometry is right? My geometry is terrible! I have called the nearby Toshiba service center and they will send a guy to look at my TV this afternoon.


Quote:
Originally posted by jlachowin
I got my 30HF84 setup last night as well. Only had an hour to play with it, but DirecTivo via svideo doesn't look as good as it did on my 4:3. The theaterwide modes are nice, but it still distorts the pictures.

My DVD's look pretty bad as well, and I still get black bars on the top/bottom on a 16:9 HDTV :(

Oh well, I have to save up for a HD directv box now.
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post #7 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 07:42 AM
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After reading this thread my excitment is almost dead. i also returned philips to get this. arthur hopefully u can put some positive remarks after tech guy fix ur tv issues.

--rubs
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post #8 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 07:54 AM
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This is my first HDTV set, so I have some fine tuning to do. Some text on the screen, like that new "Focus and a Dell" commercial displayed some really weird white text. Some type of shadow effect going on there.

So far I'm not to pleased with this set out of the box, but if we can tune them to make them look better I'll be happy. As far as DVDs, my 27" Sony wega looks better, so there is something going wrong here.
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post #9 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jlachowin
My DVD's look pretty bad as well, and I still get black bars on the top/bottom on a 16:9 HDTV :(
That reason may be because of the DVD. Please look at this thread for a detailed description.
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post #10 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 09:00 AM
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I'm beginning to wonder if these are rare problems or if these TVs are overrated:confused:
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post #11 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 09:23 AM
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I can understand one set being off, but this makes 2. My order is still pending shipment so I'd appreciate hearing more. sooner than later.....

Oddly this set is not even listed yet at Toshiba site.
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post #12 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 09:44 AM
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What stand are you guys using for the tv? I don't see an official stand on either the Toshiba.com or Toshiba.ca websites. Oddly, the Toshiba.com doesn't even list the 30HF84 tv. Does anyone know what the matching stand is for the 30HF84?

Thanks.
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post #13 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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It can't be dvd, at least for my case. Before I got the 30HF84, I owned Philips 30PW850H for almost two months. Using the same DVD player, same dvd disc and same component connections, I was very satisified with the clarity and color on 30PW850H, except the "jail bars" that are noticeable when the background is light grey or grey. And the geometry on that 30PW850H is pretty good out of box and is very good after calibration. But this 30HF84, gees, is terrible. Like I have said above, the real problem is the picture itself looks out of focus. Even the DVD progressive scan(480P) looks grainy and jaggy. I can't stop thinking if there is some quality inspection before this TV went out of the factory. This really pissed me off. I will post update if the tech guy does come this afternoon.

Quote:
Originally posted by Trent
That reason may be because of the DVD. Please look at this thread for a detailed description.
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post #14 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 10:37 AM
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As I have noted before I also have a geometry problem on my 30HF84. The grid lines are all pushed to the right in the center and upper left side of picture causing ripple effects on moving scenes. I also get the quick horizontal shift every minute or so via any 1080i input but not on SD inputs. That jerk is a known issue and a Toshiba tech came out and looked at it and said that they have found the problem and it is from a defective rear input controller board that causes all HD inputs to have a horizontal shift when the TV is first turned on and it will eventually go away once the TV is warmed up after an hour or so. The geometry problem on mine can't be fixed via service menu. Believe me I tried and so did the Toshiba tech and he stated that he has never seen a gemotry distortion like this on either the H83 or H84s and he is still waiting on Toshiba to find the problem for it. He stated that the rings on the CRT couldn't fix this geometry problem and that it is probably just a defective TUBE in general. I really don't care I just want it fixed and it has been a week now since he came and he says he still hasn't gotten a response from Toshiba. I really love the small footprint of my 30HF84 and it has wonderful SD PQ and stretch mode as well as top notch HD PQ after calibration even with the geometry and slight convergence problem causing some color smearing on edges. I have a Zenith DVB318 set at 1080i running into it via component in and the PQ is definitely equal to HBOHD and good DVD transfers and slightly below HBOHD on mediocre transfers. I am running my SA3250HD Cable STB into the Toshiba via a DVI to HDMI cable and the PQ is super sharp and vibrant. Definitely an improvement over the already nice component connection. The DVI output does show slightly more grain since is sharper therefore pixelation is more noticable on certain content. I feel if Toshiba can resolve the geometry issue, slight convergence issue, and the horizontal shift problem this TV is the best you can get for under $1000 for overall PQ, stretch modes, size, and features. By the way ahs anyone gotten any upconverting DVD players to work on this TV via the HDMI input? It seems like the HDMI has a problem with the HDCP handshake on all DVI outputs of the 1080i upconverting players. I hope whoever is to blame can fix the problem and I have a feeling it is probably the DVD player manufactures fault since the HDMI handshakes the HDCP perfectly via my DVI to HDMI cable connected to my SA3250HD's DVI output.
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post #15 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 10:48 AM
 
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Well after all the complaints with the toshiba,i am no longer interested in the toshiba:(

It's sad too, i was really looking foward to this model in hopes of toshiba being the best picture out of the 34" sets.
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post #16 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 11:02 AM
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I just purchased a 30HF84 from Best Buy this past weekend because they had a sale going on. To be honest, I'm disappointed with the picture quality and seem to have the same issues as the other folks have posted. There are definitely geometry problems as the gray bars in 4:3 mode are not straight. Probably the biggest problem that I've seen so far is that the image appears blurry in certain spots. White text on a dark background looks smudged and is hard on the eyes. DVDs played on my Pioneer Pro-Scan DVD player via component cables looked good, but not any better than my SD television. My daughter has a few Elmo DVDs and I was really shocked at some of the video artifacts that I saw. The video basically has a really bright background with elmo in the center. Elmo's mouth is completely black and each time he talks fast, the background to the left and right of Elmo's black mouth would get abnormally bright! It was really obvious and looked like the TV was having difficultly displaying black next to really bright colors. Our Sony WEGA 20" SD television never had this problem. Although I got a pretty good deal on this TV (10% off plus $50 gift card), I'll be taking it back in the next few days. I'll probably try one of the Sony WEGA HDTVs since we have been really happy with our 20" WEGA.
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post #17 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 11:03 AM
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I guess I didn't (and still don't) understand what you meant, arthurking, when you said that you see black bars on the top and bottom of your screen when watching DVDs... Are these the standard black bars that you see when you watch a widescreen DVD on a 4:3 TV, or is is something completly different?
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post #18 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't mention any black bar problem in my post. Of course I understand 2.35:1 DVD will still have black bars on the top and bottom of my screen. My problems are not black bars. Instead, they are 1. serious geometry problem; 2. the picture is somewhat out of focus(or the convergence is not good); 3. the whole picture(either in SD program viewing or in progressive DVD viewing) is grainy and jaggy.

Quote:
Originally posted by Trent
I guess I didn't (and still don't) understand what you meant, arthurking, when you said that you see black bars on the top and bottom of your screen when watching DVDs... Are these the standard black bars that you see when you watch a widescreen DVD on a 4:3 TV, or is is something completly different?
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post #19 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 11:57 AM
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After reading all this negativity, I'm now dreading how my 30hf84 will look when I hook it up! I can only hope that this review from zdnet.com can be believed.

User opinions for Toshiba 30HF84 | 30" 16:9 HD Ready Television 26" to 33"

A killer intro into the world of HDTV Widescreen"
Mark Prince on 03-Sep-2004 01:16:56 AM
Pros: I just bought this television, and I can't say enough good things about it. The colour reproduction is awesome, especially through component connections or S-Video. It's hooked up to a PVR box through Shaw Cable (Canada) with component video and audio, and everything is super crisp. I haven't had a chance to try HDTV yet, but I'm getting DiscoverHD next week. DVD playback is crisp. The cabinet is SMALL - it appeals to those who like their flat panel LCDs to have as little bezel as possible. It's also relatively shallow in the back for a CRT. Heavy, but not overly so. Awesome television, and my last CRT until DLP hits the scene in televisions.
Cons: The manual is not the greatest, and some common
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post #20 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 12:03 PM
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Jeesh, after hearing about these problems with the Toshiba, and my own problems I've experienced with panasonic 32hxc14, and the sanyo 32" hd set, it leads me to one conclusion. Sony hd sets are really the only ones worth purchasing. Which leads me to my next conclusion. I will not own an hdtv until I'm out of college.
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post #21 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 12:22 PM
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Here's 2 more reviews. This time from cnet.com

Eric on 05-Sep-2004 09:46:57 AM
Pros: HD picture is outstanding. The speakers are on the bottom so this TV fit in an entertainment center used with a 27" TV.

Cons: None so far.

"Fits in the current entertainment unit"
Howard on 05-Sep-2004 06:57:01 PM
Pros: Great picture. Big picture with a small footpad. Excellent value Got it yesterday at Best Buy for a net price of $734 (899 -10% Labor day coupon - $50 mail in gift card and $25 in rewards certificates) The gift card and rewards certs will take a couple of week. Looks like a progressive scan DVD when they come in (Currently have a Denon 2500 Picture is great but is lacking some features)

Cons: Would like a second antena input But that is minor
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post #22 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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exactly! If I could get rid of this TV, I'd like to consider 30HS420 or 30HS510, which could be purchased at about $900

Quote:
Originally posted by jefft1314
Jeesh, after hearing about these problems with the Toshiba, and my own problems I've experienced with panasonic 32hxc14, and the sanyo 32" hd set, it leads me to one conclusion. Sony hd sets are really the only ones worth purchasing. Which leads me to my next conclusion. I will not own an hdtv until I'm out of college.
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post #23 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by arthurking
I didn't mention any black bar problem in my post. Of course I understand 2.35:1 DVD will still have black bars on the top and bottom of my screen. My problems are not black bars. Instead, they are 1. serious geometry problem; 2. the picture is somewhat out of focus(or the convergence is not good); 3. the whole picture(either in SD program viewing or in progressive DVD viewing) is grainy and jaggy.
I'm sorry, it's a simple mixup. I don't always look at who the author of a post I'm replying to is. It was this post that I was replying to:

Quote:
Originally posted by jlachowin
I got my 30HF84 setup last night as well. Only had an hour to play with it, but DirecTivo via svideo doesn't look as good as it did on my 4:3. The theaterwide modes are nice, but it still distorts the pictures.

My DVD's look pretty bad as well, and I still get black bars on the top/bottom on a 16:9 HDTV

Oh well, I have to save up for a HD directv box now.
And I say that this person may not understand why he sees black bars on the top and bottom of his widescreen TV because he doesn't know that there are movies "wider" than his TV.
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post #24 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by widescreenman
After reading all this negativity, I'm now dreading how my 30hf84 will look when I hook it up! I can only hope that this review from zdnet.com can be believed.

User opinions for Toshiba 30HF84 | 30" 16:9 HD Ready Television 26" to 33"

A killer intro into the world of HDTV Widescreen"
Mark Prince on 03-Sep-2004 01:16:56 AM
Pros: I just bought this television, and I can't say enough good things about it. SNIP
I wonder if this is the same Mark Prince that runs the coffeegeek.com site in Canada. He's famous for his reviews of espresso machines. I email him and see if he has any more comments regarding the Toshiba.
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post #25 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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waited a whole afternoon and the service guy didn't appear. called them and they said they don't have the service information on this set cause it is too new. I then called toshiba again and the csr said they will send the service information to my nearby toshiba service center and the service center is supposed to call me again for the service appointment. When I asked how much time this will take, the answer is: they don't know.
well, looks I am really stuck here.
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post #26 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 02:07 PM
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After reading many posts on a number of boards, I have come up to this conclusion on the 30HF84;

Recommended to hook up HD as well as SD to the tv. As most tv's SD looks alot better with the S-Video hook-up. No different on the 30HF84. Also there may be some conflicts when the DVD/HD receiver upconverts the signal and the tv does the same. That is why the S-Video hook up is great for non HD programs.

This may solve some of the SD picture problems. Same goes with DVD on SD. I don't know about progressive scan DVD players. Have not read much about them.

As for HD programs. Most of the posts I read are very happy with the product. Some complaints are geometry and horizontal jerking. But for the most part, I read that people are impressed with this tv for their HD viewing.

Another big plus is the stretch modes to fill 16:9. Toshiba does a great job here.

Maybe this will help a couple of people and their problems with this tv. I get mine next week so I can't confirm these findings, but this is what I read on more than one forum and the problems are not common to every tv. Alot of good reviews out there, but remember that there is more posts when there is a problems compaired to less posts when all is good. There may be alot more good reviews out there that we have not heard yet.

Hope this helps and keep the reviews/coments coming.
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post #27 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by arthurking
waited a whole afternoon and the service guy didn't appear. called them and they said they don't have the service information on this set cause it is too new. I then called toshiba again and the csr said they will send the service information to my nearby toshiba service center and the service center is supposed to call me again for the service appointment. When I asked how much time this will take, the answer is: they don't know.
well, looks I am really stuck here.
arthurking;

please keep us updated when the service tech comes. I'd be interested if he can help you out with your TV.

thanks,
Justin
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post #28 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jefft1314
Jeesh, after hearing about these problems with the Toshiba, and my own problems I've experienced with panasonic 32hxc14, and the sanyo 32" hd set, it leads me to one conclusion. Sony hd sets are really the only ones worth purchasing. Which leads me to my next conclusion. I will not own an hdtv until I'm out of college.
If you think you're safe buying a Sony you might be in for a big let down. There are dozens of posts here from Sony owners reporting various problems with their new Sony sets (all models, all sizes) so you're just as likely to get a bad Sony as any other brand. One guy went through 3 top-of-the-line 34XBR960s before giving up, others have problems with the HS420 line just as they did with the HS510 line from last year. Just cause it's Sony doesn't mean it won't be defective. There are way too many posts about Sony problems to have faith in the brand, just like it is with all the other brands. They all suck !

Lots of people have no problems whatsover with their Toshibas and Pannys and Sonys and Samsungs yet still other people are having to return these same sets so there's no guarantee your new set will be problem-free regardless of which brand it is. Even Sony.

Randy
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post #29 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 05:07 PM
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You guys are freaking me out. I got my delivery date moved up to Saturday, so I'll guess I'll see what it's like then.
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post #30 of 406 Old 09-09-2004, 06:24 PM
 
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Hey Len43, tell me how your set is when you get it, i am curious to see if everybody has these issues with the toshiba.
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Closed Thread Direct View (single tube) CRT Displays

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